Milsurp Rifle for Hunting/SHTF?


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iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 04:50 PM
Hey everyone, this is my first post so don't hate on me too much haha. I'm looking for a milsurp rifle that will serve as a hunting rifle and as a SHTF rifle. I've been looking into either buying a Mosin Nagant 91/30 or a Mauser K98, but I'm not really sure which to buy? :confused: So which rifle do you guys recommend?

Also, what can you guys tell me about these two rifles in terms of?

-Accuracy
-Reliability
-Ease of Use (Cleaning, Sighting in, etc.)
-Ammo Price and Availability

Thanks,
iLikethecold

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Gord
June 12, 2011, 05:01 PM
We don't do SHTF here - just a note. Home defense/self defense are permissible topics, but expect thread locks and cranky mods if SHTF is your main angle. Ditto zombies, the UN, rogue SWAT teams, etc. Keep it realistic and non-militant. :) Welcome to THR!

I've owned a bunch of Mosins and ended up getting rid of 'em all - just weren't exciting to me anymore. If I had to do it over again, I'd save up a little more and get a Finn Mosin (I wouldn't want nor need a pristine one - fewer tears as it got dinged up and worn with use) from Pat Burns at http://gunsnammo.com/

That said, they are a lot of gun for the price you pay, they're absolutely bombproof, accuracy is acceptable (they're milsurps, so they aren't lasers, but they also don't shoot as terribly as a lot of people like to claim - if they can't hit the broad side of a barn, it's their fault, not the rifle's) and the ammo is still fairly cheap and plentiful. Domestic manufacturers make 7.62x54R softpoints for hunting. Cleaning any bolt-action gun is simple, and the Mosin strips down fully into very few parts - you'd want to maybe practice disassembling/reassembling the bolt a few times, but that's about it.

I've never owned or shot a Mauser, so I can't comment there - I will say, however, that 8mm ammo seems to have dried up in a big way.

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 05:08 PM
We don't do SHTF here - just a note. Home defense/self defense are permissible topics, but expect thread locks and cranky mods if SHTF is your main angle. Ditto zombies, the UN, rogue SWAT teams, etc. Keep it realistic and non-militant. :) Welcome to THR!

I've owned a bunch of Mosins and ended up getting rid of 'em all - just weren't exciting to me anymore. If I had to do it over again, I'd save up a little more and get a Finn Mosin (I wouldn't want nor need a pristine one - fewer tears as it got dinged up and worn with use) from Pat Burns at http://gunsnammo.com/

That said, they are a lot of gun for the price you pay, they're absolutely bombproof, accuracy is acceptable (they're milsurps, so they aren't lasers, but they also don't shoot as terribly as a lot of people like to claim - if they can't hit the broad side of a barn, it's their fault, not the rifle's) and the ammo is still fairly cheap and plentiful. Domestic manufacturers make 7.62x54R softpoints for hunting. Cleaning any bolt-action gun is simple, and the Mosin strips down fully into very few parts - you'd want to maybe practice disassembling/reassembling the bolt a few times, but that's about it.

I've never owned or shot a Mauser, so I can't comment there - I will say, however, that 8mm ammo seems to have dried up in a big way.
Alright, I apologize. I wasn't thinking zombies or anything when I said SHTF haha. I was thing of a more extreme self defense scenario, that's all. But thanks for the response.

RickMD
June 12, 2011, 05:14 PM
Comparing a Mosin Nagant to a K-98 Mauser is like comparing a Ford Pinto with a Cadillac. How many fine custom guns do you find built on Mosin Nagant actions? I'm not saying they won't shoot but they're aren't in the same class as a good 98 Mauser.

Gord
June 12, 2011, 05:19 PM
Alright, I apologize. I wasn't thinking zombies or anything when I said SHTF haha. I was thing of a more extreme self defense scenario, that's all. But thanks for the response.

No apologies required, it's just worth noting as a heads up :)

A great resource for the Mosin rifles is http://7.62x54R.net. For hunting purposes, keep in mind that the 91/30 is looong and unwieldy, and the M44 has an integral bayonet which, unless you like to spear your critters, does nothing but add weight to the front of the gun. If you think a longer sight radius would be useful (maybe you hunt from a treestand?), the 91/30 may be worth a look, but if you're going to be hunting in brush I'm guessing an M38 would serve you best.

FWIW, folks who have Mausers rave about the quality and smoothness of the action - I know that much about 'em. :)

Smokey Joe
June 12, 2011, 05:51 PM
I Like the Cold--Least expensive nice solid Mausers to be had currently are the Czech 24-47 and the Yugo M-48. But there are others. The German k98K is the original military Mauser, and those are available occasionally, but you pay more because (hushed pause...) it's a k98. There are also some Turkish Mausers in the shops, but these are "small ring" Mausers instead of "large ring" like the k98, so they are harder to modify. There are many other Mausers; getting to know them all is a whole sub-category of gun collecting knowledge all by itself.

All of the above are 8mm, actually 7.92x57 JS to be precise. 8mm ammo for them has just about dried up on the military surplus market, but of course commercial 8mm is to be had at any LSG store.

Another very nice military Mauser is the Swedish M-96, which you will pay a premium for because it's a Swede 96, but it is probably the most accurate of the military Mausers as issued. It is NOT 8mm, it is 6.5x55, which is a little harder to find in your LSG store but not impossible. There is zero military surplus 6.5x55 AFAIK. The M-96's were well taken care of by the Swedish military, and tend to be in relatively good condition.

The steadily increasing scarcity of WWII-era milsurp ammo is an excellent reason to look into reloading as a way to feed these rifles. (Yes, I know, "increasing scarcity" sounds like an oxymoron! :D )

As pointed out, the Mauser action is a very "nice" rifleman's action, while the Mosin action is simple, rugged, and foolproof. Personally, I don't like the safety of the Mosin AT ALL, and would not care to have one. I do have several Mausers.

To answer your specific questions, as to between the k98 and the Mosin:
Accuracy: Probably the k98.
Reliability: For sheer ruggness, no other firearm comes close to the Mosin. However, the k98 is perfectly reliable--just don't use it as a crowbar.
Ease of use: See note re. the Mosin safety above. There have been mentions of a rough trigger on Mosins--No personal experience. They're both military bolt actions, made to work in battlefield conditions while being shot at. So, no real difficulties with either one.
Ammo price and availability: More cheapo ammo currently available for the Mosin. Commercial ammo for either, readily to be had, for ordinary commerical ammo prices.

Now, all of the above said, you'll pay 2 or 3 times as much (or more) for the k98 as for the Mosin. Personally, I'd go with the Czech or Yugo Mauser, which will run you mebbe twice what the Mosin costs.

Good luck in your hunt for a rifle. Please keep us posted.

hhmorant
June 12, 2011, 05:56 PM
If you're open to other options, you might want to consider a K-31. Accuracy is generally very good, slick straight-pull action. And I've never seen a bad bore.

The main down side is that ammunition isn't as cheap and readily available.

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 05:58 PM
I Like the Cold--Least expensive nice solid Mausers to be had currently are the Czech 24-47 and the Yugo M-48. But there are others. The German k98K is the original military Mauser, and those are available occasionally, but you pay more because (hushed pause...) it's a k98. There are also some Turkish Mausers in the shops, but these are "small ring" Mausers instead of "large ring" like the k98, so they are harder to modify. There are many other Mausers; getting to know them all is a whole sub-category of gun collecting knowledge all by itself.

All of the above are 8mm, actually 7.92x57 JS to be precise. 8mm ammo for them has just about dried up on the military surplus market, but of course commercial 8mm is to be had at any LSG store.

Another very nice military Mauser is the Swedish M-96, which you will pay a premium for because it's a Swede 96, but it is probably the most accurate of the military Mausers as issued. It is NOT 8mm, it is 6.5x55, which is a little harder to find in your LSG store but not impossible. There is zero military surplus 6.5x66 AFAIK. The M-96's were well taken care of by the Swedish military, and tend to be in relatively good condition.

The steadily increasing scarcity of WWII-era milsurp ammo is an excellent reason to look into reloading as a way to feed these rifles. (Yes, I know, "increasing scarcity" sounds like an oxymoron! :D )

As pointed out, the Mauser action is a very "nice" rifleman's action, while the Mosin action is simple, rugged, and foolproof. Personally, I don't like the safety of the Mosin AT ALL, and would not care to have one. I do have several Mausers.

To answer your specific questions, as to between the k98 and the Mosin:
Accuracy: Probably the k98.
Reliability: For sheer ruggness, no other firearm comes close to the Mosin. However, the k98 is perfectly reliable--just don't use it as a crowbar.
Ease of use: See note re. the Mosin safety above. There have been mentions of a rough trigger on Mosins--No personal experience. They're both military bolt actions, made to work in battlefield conditions while being shot at. So, no real difficulties with either one.
Ammo price and availability: More cheapo ammo currently available for the Mosin. Commercial ammo for either, readily to be had, for ordinary commerical ammo prices.

Now, all of the above said, you'll pay 2 or 3 times as much (or more) for the k98 as for the Mosin. Personally, I'd go with the Czech or Yugo Mauser, which will run you mebbe twice what the Mosin costs.

Good luck in your hunt for a rifle. Please keep us posted.
Thanks you for the response, all that info helped a lot :) I will keep you guys posted!

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 05:59 PM
No apologies required, it's just worth noting as a heads up :)

A great resource for the Mosin rifles is http://7.62x54R.net. For hunting purposes, keep in mind that the 91/30 is looong and unwieldy, and the M44 has an integral bayonet which, unless you like to spear your critters, does nothing but add weight to the front of the gun. If you think a longer sight radius would be useful (maybe you hunt from a treestand?), the 91/30 may be worth a look, but if you're going to be hunting in brush I'm guessing an M38 would serve you best.

FWIW, folks who have Mausers rave about the quality and smoothness of the action - I know that much about 'em. :)
Thank you for the response, the website has a wealth of information :)

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 06:02 PM
Comparing a Mosin Nagant to a K-98 Mauser is like comparing a Ford Pinto with a Cadillac. How many fine custom guns do you find built on Mosin Nagant actions? I'm not saying they won't shoot but they're aren't in the same class as a good 98 Mauser.
Alright thanks for the response :)

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 06:03 PM
If you're open to other options, you might want to consider a K-31. Accuracy is generally very good, slick straight-pull action. And I've never seen a bad bore.

The main down side is that ammunition isn't as cheap and readily available.
Yes I'm always open to other options, I'll look into it. Thanks for your response :)

Sky
June 12, 2011, 06:19 PM
Classic Arms
A DIVISION OF U.S. ARMS LLC. check here for the Mosins and Swedes..Also look at the SkS for $289

WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN STOCK A VERY SPECIAL SELECT LOT OF HEX
RECEIVER M91/30 7.62X54R, BOLT ACTION RIFLES . ALL OF THESE RIFLES ARE CONSIDERED EXCELLENT PLUS CONDITION AND UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED THEY WILL ALL HAVE ALL FACTORY STAMPED MATCHING SERIAL #'S.

I do not like their web sight but sometimes you can find stuff at a reasonable Price. Look for the other bigger and better sight that has the Swede and Mosins but did not find it....sorry...maybe someone else will chime in. Aimsurplus usually has a good selection along with better prices on ammo.

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 06:23 PM
Classic Arms
A DIVISION OF U.S. ARMS LLC. check here for the Mosins and Swedes..Also look at the SkS for $289

WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN STOCK A VERY SPECIAL SELECT LOT OF HEX
RECEIVER M91/30 7.62X54R, BOLT ACTION RIFLES . ALL OF THESE RIFLES ARE CONSIDERED EXCELLENT PLUS CONDITION AND UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED THEY WILL ALL HAVE ALL FACTORY STAMPED MATCHING SERIAL #'S.

I do not like their web sight but sometimes you can find stuff at a reasonable Price. Look for the other bigger and better sight that has the Swede and Mosins but did not find it....sorry...maybe someone else will chime in. Aimsurplus usually has a good selection along with better prices on ammo.
Thank you for the response, I'm checking out the site now :)

BrocLuno
June 12, 2011, 06:26 PM
OK, assuming you need to have this mythical rifle at the cabin and you need to protect yourself/family and harvest meat - what rifle would I pick - neither. They both are fine to feed as long as the internet and UPS can get you what you need in the way of ammo, but as soon as things get dicey and you have moved to a remote site, neither is availble.

What is? 30/30, 38SPL, 223, 308 and 30-06 will be stocked everywhere or left over in someones else's ammo locker to share. Ditto 22LR. Likely 12 and 20 Ga shells too. Beyond that, it's a crap shoot. Maybe 270 and 243 as tier two. Then what? Do you reload? Are you going to stock a few thousand rounds? Can everyone in you family handle a Mosin or M98 if you are disabled?

Me, I'd be getting along with a 12Ga pump and 22LR bolt. And I have Mil-Surps - but they are for me and they are things for fun, not survival.

Vaarok
June 12, 2011, 06:35 PM
Okay, lots of slanted gunshop lore, not a lot of useful impartial information for a newb.

The Mosin is bombproof and eats cheap ammo. It's a modular brick of firepower with very little to adjust, very little to go wrong, and not a ton you can do if you get a mediocre-to-crappy one. But they're so cheap, the solution is hock it and get a new one, they cost less than a can of ammo. Long ones kick less than short ones, Finnish variations are much different and consistently twice the rifle the Russian ones are, but they cost twice as much.

The Mauser comes in a dizzying array of flavors, though the most common are:

Yugo M48: It's about as generic a Mauser as you can get. The action is slightly different than the majority of other Mausers, which doesn't mean anything unless you somehow break an extractor or firing pin, in which case the replacement will be about $10 more.

Czech Vz24: About the most generic Mauser you can get. Sling swivel at the wrist means it's not comfortable for lefties. Otherwise vanilla.

K98: Generally Russian captured and rebuilt, has Nazi Factor prodding value higher than the other two but functionally the same. Kicks pretty stout.

Lastly, there's the Turk Mausers: There are a variety of different versions, but the TC AS FA ANKARA K.Kale rifles are '98 action, vanilla, and generally cheaper, more accurate, and heavier/less recoil than the three above. That said, there's a huge amount of variation in condition, so your chances of seeing a rough example the first time you look at one are higher than the others.

There are a variety of other Mausers available in the secondary market- 7mm South American ones, 8mms, 6.5mms, etc. They're all basically decent rifles, but nuances and unpredictable supply (they're all in private hands/moving through gunshops for resale a second or third time) make them harder to catalogue.

Personally, I would strongly suggest a Mosin. They're quite bombproof and usually under a hundred bucks. You really can't go wrong.

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 06:43 PM
OK, assuming you need to have this mythical rifle at the cabin and you need to protect yourself/family and harvest meat - what rifle would I pick - neither. They both are fine to feed as long as the internet and UPS can get you what you need in the way of ammo, but as soon as things get dicey and you have moved to a remote site, neither is availble.

What is? 30/30, 38SPL, 223, 308 and 30-06 will be stocked everywhere or left over in someones else's ammo locker to share. Ditto 22LR. Likely 12 and 20 Ga shells too. Beyond that, it's a crap shoot. Maybe 270 and 243 as tier two. Then what? Do you reload? Are you going to stock a few thousand rounds? Can everyone in you family handle a Mosin or M98 if you are disabled?

Me, I'd be getting along with a 12Ga pump and 22LR bolt. And I have Mil-Surps - but they are for me and they are things for fun, not survival.
Thank you for the response, I wasn't planning on buying just a Mosin or Mauser though. It's just a start, but I do own a .22LR Bolt :)

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 06:46 PM
Okay, lots of slanted gunshop lore, not a lot of useful impartial information for a newb.

The Mosin is bombproof and eats cheap ammo. It's a modular brick of firepower with very little to adjust, very little to go wrong, and not a ton you can do if you get a mediocre-to-crappy one. But they're so cheap, the solution is hock it and get a new one, they cost less than a can of ammo. Long ones kick less than short ones, Finnish variations are much different and consistently twice the rifle the Russian ones are, but they cost twice as much.

The Mauser comes in a dizzying array of flavors, though the most common are:

Yugo M48: It's about as generic a Mauser as you can get. The action is slightly different than the majority of other Mausers, which doesn't mean anything unless you somehow break an extractor or firing pin, in which case the replacement will be about $10 more.

Czech Vz24: About the most generic Mauser you can get. Sling swivel at the wrist means it's not comfortable for lefties. Otherwise vanilla.

K98: Generally Russian captured and rebuilt, has Nazi Factor prodding value higher than the other two but functionally the same. Kicks pretty stout.

Lastly, there's the Turk Mausers: There are a variety of different versions, but the TC AS FA ANKARA K.Kale rifles are '98 action, vanilla, and generally cheaper, more accurate, and heavier/less recoil than the three above. That said, there's a huge amount of variation in condition, so your chances of seeing a rough example the first time you look at one are higher than the others.

There are a variety of other Mausers available in the secondary market- 7mm South American ones, 8mms, 6.5mms, etc. They're all basically decent rifles, but nuances and unpredictable supply (they're all in private hands/moving through gunshops for resale a second or third time) make them harder to catalogue.

Personally, I would strongly suggest a Mosin. They're quite bombproof and usually under a hundred bucks. You really can't go wrong.
Thank you for the response, the information was very helpful :)

ErikO
June 12, 2011, 06:52 PM
Personally, I'd stick with the bolt-action .22lr or else get a .303 and a ton of reloading equipment plus non-electrical bullet casting. Either a metric ton of .22lr vipervelocity ammo or else enough reloading supplies to keep you going for a while. Milsurp is ok, but once you're out of 7.62x54R you've got a pike. ;)

Sunray
June 12, 2011, 06:54 PM
"...a milsurp rifle that will serve as a hunting rifle..." Hi. Nearly any rifle used in W.W. II will do that. Problem these days is finding one in decent condition. Mosin-Nagant rifles might be the exception. Finding hunting ammo in small places may be an issue though.
Milsurp sights tend to be poor as well.

ripp
June 12, 2011, 06:58 PM
A bolt action became obsolete as a defensive arm with the advent of the AK 47 in large numbers. Get an sks, with good softpoint ammo it is at least as much of a big game rifle as a 30-30 ever was, too.

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 07:15 PM
Personally, I'd stick with the bolt-action .22lr or else get a .303 and a ton of reloading equipment plus non-electrical bullet casting. Either a metric ton of .22lr vipervelocity ammo or else enough reloading supplies to keep you going for a while. Milsurp is ok, but once you're out of 7.62x54R you've got a pike. ;)
Haha well a pike is better than your own bare hands! :P I do plan to start reloading and stockpiling ammo though. Thanks for the response :)

bigedp51
June 12, 2011, 07:17 PM
I have MN and Mausers and they would not be my first choice because.....................................................................

A No.4 Enfield is a better weapon with its aperture sight and old farts like me with chronologically gifted eyesight can shoot them and still be very accurate. (reads as no scope needed)

Besides between now and the end of the world you can still get even if you lose a postal match to the Australians. :rolleyes:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/postalshoot.jpg

And anyone foolish enough with an AK to attack your position would be fighting a loosing battle.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP2207-1.jpg

Remember "aimed" rapid fire hits more targets than spray and pray

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 07:18 PM
"...a milsurp rifle that will serve as a hunting rifle..." Hi. Nearly any rifle used in W.W. II will do that. Problem these days is finding one in decent condition. Mosin-Nagant rifles might be the exception. Finding hunting ammo in small places may be an issue though.
Milsurp sights tend to be poor as well.
Yes very true, thanks for the response.

Tenacious B
June 12, 2011, 07:24 PM
What part of the country are you in and what type of game to you plan to hunt with this rifle?

Personally, I wouldn't want to use any of the rifles mentioned for self defense due to their length, low capacity, highly penetrative ammo, and high noise level (not that any gun is quiet without a suppressor).

If you don't plan to hunt anything larger than a deer you might want to look into the SKS and Ak47. Both were made in the millions and are easy to find, the SKS being a bit cheaper and a slightly older design. Both shoot the 7.62x39 round which is no slouch and can be found everywhere - surplus and commercial. For equivalent quality of ammo the 7.62x39 costs about the same as 9mm, so it is basically the cheapest center fire rifle round available.

That being said, whatever you get go ahead and get a Mosin too. For $100 you really can't go wrong.

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 07:27 PM
A bolt action became obsolete as a defensive arm with the advent of the AK 47 in large numbers. Get an sks, with good softpoint ammo it is at least as much of a big game rifle as a 30-30 ever was, too.
A bolt action would not be my first pick for a defensive weapon either, I would much rather prefer a 12 Gauge, or an AR-15 for self/home defense. But I don't have the cash for that right now haha. Thanks for the response

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 07:30 PM
I have MN and Mausers and they would not be my first choice because.....................................................................

A No.4 Enfield is a better weapon with its aperture sight and old farts like me with chronologically gifted eyesight can shoot them and still be very accurate. (reads as no scope needed)

Besides between now and the end of the world you can still get even if you lose a postal match to the Australians. :rolleyes:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/postalshoot.jpg

And anyone foolish enough with an AK to attack your position would be fighting a loosing battle.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP2207-1.jpg

Remember "aimed" rapid fire hits more targets than spray and pray
I have heard a lot of good things about the Enfield series of rifles, though I don't know much about them. I will look into them though. Thanks for the response.

BTW, I lol'd at that pic :)

Dreamcast270mhz
June 12, 2011, 07:32 PM
Theres the Ishapore Enfields, using 762 NATO and that ammo is easy to come by although not exactly cheap

iLikethecold
June 12, 2011, 07:42 PM
Thank you for the response, I'll check them out. I've never heard of them before haha.

nathan
June 13, 2011, 01:02 AM
SKS

wombat13
June 13, 2011, 01:17 PM
Why not consider an M1 Garand if you are open to other options? Surplus ammo is readily available and commercial .30-06 is available in every LGS. An inexpensive adjustable gas plug will allow you to shoot any .30-06 ammo you like.

I took an eight-point whitetail with my Garand this year.

bigedp51
June 13, 2011, 01:47 PM
iLikethecold

If you need any info on the Enfield rifle drop me a line I have a ton of manuals on the Enfield rifle and can help with any bedding questions, trigger work, etc.

95% of all Enfield manuals you see today I donated for free download to help other Enfield collectors. bigedp51 is Ed Horton ;)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/snapshot2.png

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP2800-1.jpg

Cosmoline
June 13, 2011, 02:00 PM
Mosin-Nagants are widely misunderstood. Most folk think there are only two or three types. Actually there are DOZENS of types and more subtypes. Including some of the finest surplus rifles in existence. These rifles armed history's greatest snipers. They can be as accurate as a Mauser. The actions are archaic, but functional. The safety is probably the safest ever made. But folks aren't used to it so they don't like it. It can be disengaged silently, which is a potential advantage while hunting.

As far as sights, you can get Mojo double apps that will work fine for hunting inside of 150 yards.

As far as ammo, there's plenty of commercial softpoint out there. It's easier to find GOOD commercial hunting ammo in 54R than it is for the 8x57JS. Remember that US made 8x57 is downgraded to .30-30 levels due to some strange SAAMI restrictions. S&B 180 grain SP's are good quality and inexpensive.

A bolt action became obsolete as a defensive arm with the advent of the AK 47 in large numbers.

They became obsolete as a wide issue MILITARY firearm, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Gord
June 13, 2011, 04:48 PM
We're also not talking about Garands et al. Some of you guys are missing the point - which is that obviously the OP's not looking to drop a ton of money on a gun right now.

Bottom line: you cannot beat a Mosin for price vs. functionality. If you end up hating it they are ridiculously easy to resell - who's going to say no to a sub-$100 rifle?

An M44 was my first centerfire gun. I eventually acquired another M44, an M38 and a 91/30. All good guns, even though that first M44 was a real rattletrap.

iLikethecold
June 13, 2011, 09:57 PM
I live in Pennsylvania and plan to hunt mostly White-Tail deer with one of these rifles. I would use and AK or an SKS but I can only hunt deer in Pennsylvania with a bolt action rifle. I agree with what you said about self/home defense though, I would much rather have an AR-15, 12 Gauge, or a good 'ol 1911 for self/home defense :) Thanks for the response.

iLikethecold
June 13, 2011, 09:59 PM
I'll search around, and if I can find one on the cheap I will buy it! :) But if I can't get one now, I will get one in the future. Thanks for the response.

iLikethecold
June 13, 2011, 10:01 PM
Hey thanks man! I just might :) Do you know of any websites where I can find a nice Enfield?

iLikethecold
June 13, 2011, 10:06 PM
Yeah very true, Vasily Zaytsev killed hundreds of Germans with his Mosin. Not to mention the many other Soviet snipers that served throughout WWII. 7.62x54R is dirt cheap too :) Thanks for the response.

Dreamcast270mhz
June 13, 2011, 10:36 PM
Just make sure you don't use FMJ for hunting, Use Prvi Partisan's SP ammo for deer.

Jeff F
June 13, 2011, 10:49 PM
Just make sure you don't use FMJ for hunting, Use Prvi Partisan's SP ammo for deer.

In a survival situation use what you got be it FMJ or soft point. I have killed some hogs with FMJ and prefer it for meat hunting

Dreamcast270mhz
June 14, 2011, 12:28 AM
Survival- Sure

Legally speaking at least in surrounding counties you need to use an expanding bullet.

RickMD
June 14, 2011, 06:30 AM
In a survival situation use what you got be it FMJ or soft point.

The original poster is from Pennsylvania. FMJ ammo is illegal for deer hunting in PA.

Dr.Rob
June 14, 2011, 07:25 AM
I lean towards the Mauser as a hunting rifle over the Moisin.

GD
June 14, 2011, 09:22 AM
The mauser is a nice rifle. Generally, a K98k is a 2-4 MOA rifle. If you want accuracy, a Finnish M39 (mosin) is a 1.5 MOA or better rifle. You should be able to get a M39 for under $300 - you would be lucky to find a K98k for under that. In addition, ammo for the mosin is much more available and much cheaper. I have a dozen mausers and twice that in mosins and I have found the mosins and the mausers to be similarly accurate - except for the Finns which are much more accurate.
As far as the other rifles mentioned - K31 and Enfields - My K31's and #4 Mk 1's are very accurate rifles but in both cases, ammo is at least double the cost of mosin ammo (7.62x54).
So, if you want history, accuracy, and cheap ammo, you can go wrong with a Finn mosin.

okiewita40
June 14, 2011, 10:57 AM
I'll put in another vote for the sks. Dead on reliable. Mine does everything I ask of it. It serves as my do everything rifle. i.e. HD/hunting/plinking. Plus the ammo is affordable. I can get some of the steel cased SP ammo for just over $5 a box.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 14, 2011, 12:17 PM
I own both a Mosin (M44) and a Mauser (Turkish M38).

The mosin is a roughly built gun, but bulletproof. I read a post on here, don't remember who the author was, but a primer had fallen out of the case, and lodged itself between the trigger and the reciever, and though it brought the trigger pull to around hulk strength breaking force, it still fired. Tough guns, reasonably accurate, and like stated, if you can't hit nothing, it's your problem, not the rifle's. 7.62x54R is still a popular round and don't see it really drying up for quite some time, seeing as the Russians still field it in their LMG's and what not. You can reload for the round, using commercial brass and .308 to .311 caliber slugs, just depends on the bore. Get the barrel slugged to know for sure.

The Mauser is an all around better gun. All the examples I have seen are all excellent in terms of workmanship and quality. They are typically more accurate. 8mm Mauser (7.92x57) is drying up a bit, and I paid $96.40 through CheaperThanDirt! for a case of 440 (I believe that's what the round count was. May be 350. Not sure). They aren't hard to reload. Just go buy some commercial rounds and some .323 cal slugs (last I checked). Still wouldn't hurt to slug the barrel.

Both rifles do quite well shooting cast lead bullets. Give them a shot, too.

Red October
June 14, 2011, 01:06 PM
I think I have pretty much all the weapons that have been suggested so far (AK, SKS, Garand, Swiss K-31, Mk 4 #1 British .303, Mauser K98, and a M91/30 Mosin). That said, I think the consensus has been steering you toward the Mosin, and I can't really disagree.
I can't really say anything bad about any of these suggestions (I like all of them or wouldn't still have them). All have their pros and cons (the con for many of them being cost to purchase).
The Mauser is a fine weapon, but as mentioned, the 8x57 ammo is a little more scarce. All the bulk ammo that I have seen is Milsurp and corrosive, which just means that you need to be a little more dedicated to cleanup after shooting.
Some of the 7.62x54R bulk ammo out there is not corrosive, so you could slack a little on the cleaning if you were so inclined, and it seems to be a little more available both on the web and at my local shops.
All of the cheaper bulk ammo out there that I have seen is Berdan primed, and therefore MUCH more difficult to reload (yes, it is possible, but not practical).
Both ammo types are available in soft point for hunting by major manufacturers.

Pingy
June 14, 2011, 02:54 PM
SKS is the best budget utility gun IMO. For a hunting rifle it is similar to a 30-30 as far as how you would use it, plenty effective out to 200 yards. Don't let anyone mess with your head as far as "accuracy" is concerned, the shooter is most often the limiting factor in the equation by not adapting to different sight pictures, holds, and marksmanship fundamentals. One nice feature of the SKS is the attached bayo and use of stripper clips, way easier to use if you don't want to haul around magazines and very cheap. M44 Mosin is where I'd go next, since it is bolt action, but also has the foldout bayonet for in the home self defense when it's not exactly prudent to chamber another round. Be warned though, hand to hand combat (bayonets included) is much more intense and enemy kills are more "personal." You also have to be willing and able to charge an armed assailant who has a pistol who may be as far as 10 feet away inside a home. Using an effective "War cry" with a bayonet charge will often unnerve your enemy increasing their chances of firing inaccurately or possibly even cause them to turn and run away, especially in the more likely scenario that you'll be facing the kind of coward who has snuck into your house in the middle of the night to do your family harm rather than a veteran soldier in wartime.

That is much of the reason why in the civil war they would line up 50 yards apart and spend 30 second reloading rather than closing the distance and stabbing someone with a bayo in 15 seconds. The mission of the Marine Corps rifle squad helps to illustrate the point that hand to hand combat is a last resort.

"The Mission of the Marine Corps rifle squad is to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, and repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat."

Take this next part as an informed opinion rather than fact, since I can't quote sources but seem to recall hearing it either in training and/or from experience (hunting part anyway). Most self defense shootings occur within 7 yards (past that it's hard to justify self defense anyway), visibility while hunting in the woods (and therefore your shot) is often limited to 50 yards, and combat since WW2 has averaged less than 300 yards (except for Afghanistan I've heard, so if you're going there don't take an SKS).

I'm just covering all the bases as far as self-defense, hunting, war, and the reasoning behind choosing the SKS as an adequate and inexpensive alternative in all 3 scenarios. Sorry I made my post a little "militant," but I meant it to be informative rather than "SHTF" paranoid with illegal gun use references or other nonsense. I'm simply trying to share my gun knowledge as a hunter and Marine, and the SKS has a history in at least 2 of the uses (don't know if I've heard about one being used in self-defense tbh.)

Smokey Joe
June 14, 2011, 03:43 PM
L J Mosin-Freak Buck--You said,Both rifles do quite well shooting cast lead bullets. Give them a shot, too.Pun intended, right?? :D

I Like the Cold--Are you any closer now to a decision?

Gord
June 14, 2011, 04:08 PM
SKS is the best budget utility gun IMO.

Problem is, now that they're up around $300, there are lots better choices (and, heck, you can just about buy a new domestic bolt-action for that). If you can find an SKS cheap and local, it may still be an option, but at current retail, an SKS wouldn't be up near the top of my list.

I suppose the same could be said for Mosins, though - at the usual $89-or-so, they're a great bargain, but right now, an M44 for $200 retail? I don't think so...

Effigy
June 14, 2011, 04:31 PM
If I were to buy a cheap mil-surp rifle, it would definitely be an SKS. I already have an AK-47 so the incentive isn't really there for me though. Even if it does cost $300, that's still cheap for a rifle. I see a rifle as a long term investment, not a race to the bottom of the barrel to save a couple hundred bucks you'll likely never miss in the grand scheme of life.

Pingy
June 14, 2011, 05:48 PM
Wow, M44 is around $200 now? Not sure how much I paid for mine, but wasn't much over $100. I saw something that someone wrote that was kinda funny and true. You can't pay too much for a gun, you can only pay too soon. lol. Think about it.

Grey Morel
June 14, 2011, 06:53 PM
Having owned multiple types of all the milsurps listed here, let me say it is FOOLISH and exceedingly ignorant to make blanket statements about any of them.

To say things like "Mosins are roughly built" or "Mausers are like Cadillacs" shows a lack of any in depth experience IMO.

For Mosins, the difference between the typical $89 Izhevsk wartime round receiver and a pre-war Tula Hex are astonishing. The Finnish rifles are even better. The differences are literally visible from arms length - some of the round receiver guns aren't even round, where a good hex reciever model is not only true, but highly polished and showing no tool marks.

Mausers are every bit as diverse, having been produced for dozens of countries, over a wide range of time. A Turk is not a Argentine, is not a Mexican, is not a Swede.

Enfields were also made in a wide number of configurations at various arsenals in various nations.

There are examples of fine weapons among all of them, as well as shoddy wartime builds. Contrary to myth there are even some good carcanos out there.

Making a derogatory blanket statement about classic military arms is like saying "dogs have rabbis" or "cats are friendly. Its so short sighted, its silly.

sixgunner455
June 14, 2011, 07:11 PM
I would use and AK or an SKS but I can only hunt deer in Pennsylvania with a bolt action rifle.

ILikeTheCold - according to the game commission, you can't hunt with a semi-auto, but that does not restrict you to a bolt action. Use one if that's what you prefer, but you can use a lever action, single shot, bolt action, or pump - any manual action rifle.

Pingy
June 14, 2011, 11:18 PM
I like Missouri's law. So long as it doesn't hold more than 10+1 and you use an expanding type bullet. In Illinois my Uncle can only use a bow or shotgun.

minutemen1776
June 15, 2011, 12:02 AM
"dogs have rabbis"

Jewish canines? :)

minutemen1776
June 15, 2011, 12:11 AM
On a more serious note, after having owned about 20 different milsurps and still having a half dozen in the gun cabinet, none of them would be my top choice for defense or hunting. Yes, milsurps can be inexpensive, and that's often the draw for many. But as others have already noted, getting a good milsurp can still cost you a couple hundred dollars or more. For your money, you get something that's not particularly suited for defense or hunting. For defense, you'd be better suited with a pump-action shotgun or a police trade-in handgun. For hunting, a few hundred can get a decent modern rifle, either a bolt-action or a lever gun. You might not get a new one for that, but you wouldn't be shopping milsurps if you were insisting on something new. Still, when it's all said and done, something more modern will likely serve you better. Of course, if you're into milsurps, then get one and try it. Just don't expect it to measure up to high expectations if you're pressing one into a role it was never intended to fill.

foghornl
June 15, 2011, 08:14 AM
I have an M-44 Mosin-Nagant, and I enjoy it for what it is...a very rugged rifle (carbine), meant to be used in tough times. I figure the I can use the bayonet extended to fend off 1 or 2 ahhhhhh 'unfriendlies' while I reload the magazine.

Don't forget... while it may be a bit difficult to find...Soft-Point or Hollow-point ammo for hunting. A lot of the "Game-n-Fish" folks take a very dim view of using Mil-Surp "ball" ammo for hunting.

By the way...whoever posted the "Monkey-Butt" target owes me for a diet-coke drowned monitor & keyboard....

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 15, 2011, 12:24 PM
Smokey Joe-

Pun absolutely intended :D

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 15, 2011, 12:28 PM
How would a milsurp not be able to fill this role, Minuteman?
Hunting- They may not be the best for hunting, but they work, I've taken 6 deer with my K31 before I took leave of hunting for a while.
Defensive? They were designed to fight wars, and more often than not, they were used in a DEFENSIVE position.

Please elaborate your views.

minutemen1776
June 15, 2011, 06:57 PM
I'm happy to elaborate. :)

First, just to be clear, milsurps can, and often do, serve as both defensive and hunting weapons. There's no doubt that many hunters go to the field with milsurps and enjoy success. Likewise, I'm sure that a lot of homes are defended by old milsurp rifles.

All that said, my point is that these old military arms are not the best choice for either role. And, to expand on that, more suitable firearms can be had at a similar price point, for those who are budget-conscious.

On the hunting side, milsurps may work, but you may also be hobbled with iron sights that are designed for engagements that begin at 300 meters. And, unless you resort to drilling and tapping, most milsurps aren't compatible with telescopic sights, which are a huge plus for hunting at range or in low light. There are other drawbacks, but I'll stop there. My basic point is that, if you're going to spend a few hundred dollars on a hunting rifle, it makes more sense to opt for a used modern rifle that either has or can readily accept a scope. A milsurp may be up to the task, but it's not made as a hunting arm, and it's not the best choice for that role.

For defensive uses, you're right that military rifles were designed to fight wars and were often used in defensive roles. However, they were also made to fight wars on battlefields, with entire armies engaging at ranges far beyond what anyone would ever encounter in a home-defense scenario. When it comes to fighting in close quarters, most milsurps are far too long and too slow into action to be ideally suited for that kind of fighting. This, by the way, was known even when these rifles were still in use. That's why, when so many military arms were still long, bolt-action rifles, the armies that used them also used lots of subguns for closer work. I concede that shorter semiauto milsurps like the AKM, M1 Carbine, and some SKSs are good choices for home defense. Yet, most milsurps are not, because they're too long, too heavy, and/or hold too few rounds. So, again, the milsurp is generally not the best choice, even though it can be pressed into the role. For the same money, why not opt for a 12-gauge shotgun or a handgun that will better serve in that role?

Finally, I'll reiterate that I have no disdain for milsurps. I've owned many and still have quite a few. I enjoy shooting them, and many of them are fine rifles. Ultimately, though, I'll reach for something else first if I'm defending my home or going on a big hunt. In my opinion, there are just better tools for those specific tasks.

Dreamcast270mhz
June 15, 2011, 07:50 PM
@minutemen

WHile they are long, with a bayonet they make a formidable threat, as a perp may not expect a 3-4 foot long spear as a defensive weapon. Gutting a perp would incapacitate him far better than a shotgun.

dak0ta
June 15, 2011, 10:09 PM
Hm.. bayonet vs 00 buckshot to the head... I think shotgun would win.

Plus you can pop an M9 bayonet onto a Mossberg 590 and be covered.

minutemen1776
June 15, 2011, 10:21 PM
:eek:

What's up with all the bayonet fantasies in this thread? Think about it. Are you really going to try wielding a 3 1/2- to 4-foot rifle plus a bayonet in the confines of your house? True, a "perp" would not anticipate that maneuver, but that alone doesn't make it a good strategy.

Dreamcast270mhz
June 15, 2011, 10:30 PM
My house has long, narrow hallways and my bed room is at one end of the hallway. Perps in my area are almost always unarmed, or armed with an edged weapon. My K98 and VZ24 bayonet with its upward facing blade is my most easily acessible weapon. A perp coming down my hallway wouldn't know what hit him, after all who anticipates a 6 ft man with a 3 1/2 foot rifle Banzai charging you? I load lead ammo in that gun anyways so overpenetration is the least of my worries.

Grey Morel
June 15, 2011, 11:07 PM
Yes, milsurps can be inexpensive, and that's often the draw for many. But as others have already noted, getting a good milsurp can still cost you a couple hundred dollars or more. For your money, you get something that's not particularly suited for defense or hunting.

On the hunting side, milsurps may work, but you may also be hobbled with iron sights that are designed for engagements that begin at 300 meters. And, unless you resort to drilling and tapping, most milsurps aren't compatible with telescopic sights, which are a huge plus for hunting at range or in low light.

I could not disagree with you more Sir.

I find the ghost-ring sights on an Enfield No.4, or a No.5 carbine to be ideal for hunting in heavy cover - especially when stalking prey which needs to be flushed, or shots taken on a moving animal. An optic of any magnification would be inferior for this purpose, and the scant few 'hunting rifles' which are equipped with open sights use types which are not nearly as conducive to fast target acquisition.

Additionally, if a Mauser with iron sights is not an appropriate hunting arm, then someone should notify Ruger, Winchester, and Remington, who have been building dedicated 'hunting rifles' in similar configurations for many decades.

Some of your other postulations about milsurp sighting systems don't make sense to me either: You say you need an optic for long range, yet the irons on a milsurp are only good beyond 300 yards? Also, you say that milsurps need to be drilled and topped for scope mounts.

Those claims are not 100% accurate.

Many milsurps can indeed be adjusted down to ranges much shorter than 300 yards - yes, many will still shoot several inches high even when adjusted down to their '100 yard' setting, but this is largely negated with a 6 o'clock target hold. Even a Mosin which shoots 5" high on the 100 yard setting will place a bullet in the vitals of a deer whose silhouette is sighted on the 6, and windage set behind the shoulder. This is simple, and requires no guess work.

Secondly, several companies now offer solid no-tap mounts which replace the rear sight. An electronic sight can be mounted for close range, or a handgun scope added for longer range shooting. These are not only effective (as displayed by previous posts in this very thread), but do not permanently alter the gun.

It may well be that those things were not true when you started collecting milsurps 'back in the day', but they are true in the current world we live in. The evidence is here in this thread.

Also, its not the Jewish canines you have to worry about - it's the Buddhist goldfish. :D

lonestardiver
June 15, 2011, 11:47 PM
You guys are forgetting a good in country milsurp... The 1903A3
My first one was sporterized but not bubbafied. It had been put into a
Fajen style monte carlo stock. The only modification had been drilling and
tapping the receiver for a scope mount. First thing I did was to replace the trigger
with a timmney. Later I had it pillar bedded and the front sight removed.
Everything else is still stock. I get about 1.5MOA at 100 yds... so for target shooting
not too bad.. For putting meat into the freezer it has harvested hog, deer, and javalina.
30.06 ammo is available just about anywhere....including a bunch of milsurp in cans.
Easy to reload and the variety of bullets makes it quite versatile.

Oh..... I bought it for $200

Dreamcast270mhz
June 16, 2011, 12:04 AM
A lot of 1903A3s are dangerous to fire, moreso than even Last ditch T99 Rifles. All 1903s I have handled/been offered are of subpar quality to the 1917 enfield and Gewehr 98 rifles, thats not to say some people have found some good ones, I have only found rubbish of them thus far.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 16, 2011, 12:36 AM
While they may be inferior to a semi auto, they are still good rifles, Minutemen :D

Put it this way; Would you rather have a gun that you know well, and have had so much practice with it you can fire more than 25 roudns a minute, accurately with (Mosin or Mauser, and I can do this, but I'd like to improve) than to have a rifle I do not know or own (AK, AR, etc.) and have had no practice with?

Im more comfortable with my bolts, for now, and I'm far more proficient than the average thug.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 16, 2011, 12:38 AM
1903's with sub par quality? Unsafe to fire? I have never heard of this, particulary because they have a Mauser based action.

Afy
June 16, 2011, 06:51 AM
K31 is an excellent weapon, and will generally hold 1 MoA with GP11 as long as you play your part.

RickMD
June 16, 2011, 07:37 AM
A lot of 1903A3s are dangerous to fire...

Huh? In over 30 years of shooting '03 Springfield's, this is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing. There has been some concern voiced about the early single heat treated Springfield actions (under serial number 800,000) after which Springfield Arsenal went to double heat treating and subsequently nickel steel but I've never heard anyone state that an '03 was unsafe. All 1903A3's were made of nickle steel and even very few of the low numbered Springfield's have had documented failures.

Frank de Hass in his definitive work on Bolt Action Rifles states that the 1903 Springfield Action is the top choice of a military action when building a fine custom rifle. When the late P. O. Ackley did destructive testing on many military actions he found the strongest action to be the Jap Arisaka. But who on God's green earth would want a fine custom rifle built on an Arisaka action? I guess Griffin and Howe, Sedgley, and Paul Jaeger were all misinformed when they built all those beautiful '03 Springfield sporting rifles... 98 Mausers are a bit stronger due to their design but then I don't load to Bubba pressures of over 55,000 PSI anyway. Finally, to say that an Springfield action is "sub-par" to a Enfield in quality is laughable.

Sam1911
June 16, 2011, 08:33 AM
A lot of 1903A3s are dangerous to fire, moreso than even Last ditch T99 Rifles.Yeah...that's not the case. As RickMD pointed out, you're thinking of the tales of the earliest batch of 1903s, not 1903A3s. And even those concerns are utterly moot if you understand what you're looking at.

All 1903s I have handled/been offered are of subpar quality to the 1917 enfield and Gewehr 98 rifles, thats not to say some people have found some good ones, I have only found rubbish of them thus far.Wow, that's really too bad. Even a few years ago when I picked up one from CMP, the condition and quality of the rifle they sent me was simply outstanding. Keep looking, there are beat up, worn out, or mistreated surplus rifles of all kinds out on the market, but as you get some experience you'll figure out when you're looking at a junker vs. an actual representative sample of the type.

Dreamcast270mhz
June 16, 2011, 11:03 AM
@Sam1911

Yeah I really wanted to like the ones offered to me, but I haven't found one without some sort of off putting characteristic. One guy tried to sell me a 1903 his dad had brought back, which is great, except he sporterized it and <deleted naughty word> up the finish with steel wool. I would've given him not a penny more than $100, he wanted at least 700 too much.

Another one was a very nice late production gun, that I couldn't buy but tried to. The owner was of the false belief you have to sell a rifle to someone whose 21. :rolleyes:

What I look for in a former military rifle is personality, in other words I don't want a pristine example, I love beaten up war trophies ( my G 98 is my best example) I also look at the bore, is it going to be a shooter or a wall hanger? I'm one of those guys who only enjoys guns i can shoot. Finally, I look at the price, is it a good bargain? If I really wanted it price is not as much a problem, but a good deal is a good deal

minutemen1776
June 16, 2011, 11:16 AM
Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I'm about done arguing my own. As I said before, I have nothing against milsurps. Most are great guns in their own right. However, for most hunting and home-defense applications, I think there are better options available, notwithstanding the host of milsurp fans who will forever argue that their rifle is the best tool for just about everything. I, for one, am glad to have more options that are better suited for the job.

Here's one last thing I want to address:

Would you rather have a gun that you know well, and have had so much practice with it you can fire more than 25 roudns a minute, accurately with (Mosin or Mauser, and I can do this, but I'd like to improve) than to have a rifle I do not know or own (AK, AR, etc.) and have had no practice with?

I still think that a Mosin or Mauser is a poor choice for a home-defense weapon, especially if used indoors or in close quarters. I hold that opinion regardless of your professed proficiency with the weapon. The better solution is to get a better tool for the job and then learn to be just as proficient with it as you are now with the Mosin or Mauser. To put it another way, no matter how good you might be with a hammer, I'd never suggest that you drive screws with it. I'd tell you to get a screwdriver and learn to use it, too.

Flame away. I'm done. :evil:

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 16, 2011, 11:49 AM
LOL, Good show, Minutemen.

As far as my beliefs go, I'd rather be comfortable with the rifle, and proficient with it before I'd go and find something else that I have no clue how to work.

And I wouldn't use a Mosin indoors anyway, that's what I have a shotgun and a pistol for :D. The Mauser is way too long, standing on end it's a foot shorter than I (little shorter but that's what it feels like) and slicing the pie with that would be more like trying to use a hack-saw to remove a wedding band from someone's finger. The mosin would just blow out my ear drums. :evil:

minutemen1776
June 16, 2011, 02:02 PM
Thanks MosinFreak. I think you get my point entirely. Now I feel vindicated! :D

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 16, 2011, 06:06 PM
Lol, some what, mi lad, some what. I know the point, but I'm still not whole heartedly agreeing to it lol. If it were outside on my property, you bet Old Ivan and Jive Turkey would be pulling the ropes. However inside, little Astro-glide (nickname for my astra a-90 until I can get a feel for the name it wants) and Cletus (my 20 ga.) will be doing their part.

So I guess we're agreed upon, good sir!:D

Now if only the Astra's custom grips would get finished. I've been waiting about two months for the guy to even start working on them :cuss::banghead::fire:

But they're supposed to look really nice:evil:

BobTheTomato
June 16, 2011, 06:06 PM
Everyone needs a Mosin.....

Ruger44mag
June 16, 2011, 08:37 PM
I think the Mosin Nagant 91/30 would be a great choice, I love mine. The marlin 30-30 336 would also be a good choice. It is lighter holds more rounds and you can shoot it faster.

minutemen1776
June 16, 2011, 10:32 PM
Everyone needs a Mosin.....

Definitely. I've got two.

MosinFreak, I'm glad we've found common ground. Good luck with the Astra grips.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 17, 2011, 12:32 AM
Thank you, Minutemen. I hope for it.

stonecutter2
June 17, 2011, 01:03 PM
First, consider applying for a C&R FFL03. It costs $30 for 3 years, and you can get a rifle shipped right to your front door. A transfer would cost just as much, but for the $30 you'll get 3 years of discounts at online retailers for various things. Make that transfer fee stretch much further than one rifle purchase, plus get a rifle delivered to you with no go-between. I did this and I'm glad I did.

Next, I have a Mosin Nagant 91/30 hex receiver built in 1924, and a K98 Mauser built in 1939 by Mauser Oberndorf am Neckar with markings intact from the Third Reich. I would say that just as far as walking through my house (carrying rifles to the basement for cleaning etc), the K98 is far easier to handle than the 91/30. The Mosin is just fairly long, and the K98 is a carbine. The K98 handles much better than the Mosin in closer quarters. An important note is that both rifles' ammunition will undoubtedly overpenetrate and go into my neighbors' houses if i use them for home defense, the rounds are just that powerful. I don't use them for HD, but I'm sure they'd really ruin someone's day if they got shot with them.

As for hunting, I don't see any reason either wouldn't serve you pretty well so long as you got nice condition rifles - this is where I (personally) would go for a new manufacture rifle only because I'd want to know I was getting something that would shoot well enough to accurately take down what I was hunting (and attach a scope easier).

Most scopes that replace milsurp rear sights tend to be the "scout" style, as the scope will be further up on the rifle, rather than back right over the bolt like modern hunting rifles typically have scopes attached.

Overall, I'd suggest that whatever you do, if you order a milsurp rifle, pay for a hand select/pick fee of $10 or $20. Increase the odds that you'll get a milsurp in better shape any way that you can. Conditions can vary quite a bit.

Consider looking at a nice, cheaper Savage too. Maybe in 30-06. Just as a modern, brand new option.

Vlad357
June 17, 2011, 01:50 PM
Hi Guys,

Last year I decided to add a Mosin 91/30 to my collection. I have quite a few rifles including 1903A3s and Mausers. I got the Mosin to see what the buzz was about and am happy I did. It is a hoot to shoot and is fairly accurate, at least minute-of-deer. Surplus ammo is about .20 per round, so I laid in a few crates, and got 100 Brown Bear 203 grain soft points for about .35 per round for deer hunting.

Don't know if I will start reloading for it or not yet, but it is nice to have a rifle I don't worry about taking out in the snow and rain. I live in Wisconsin and it looks like we are finally going to join the CCW ranks, so this Mosin could become my CCW, of course I would have to take the bayonet off!

harmon rabb
June 17, 2011, 03:09 PM
I live in Wisconsin and it looks like we are finally going to join the CCW ranks, so this Mosin could become my CCW, of course I would have to take the bayonet off!

Is this a joke? You're going to conceal and carry a mosin on your person somehow? Lulz.

Effigy
June 17, 2011, 04:14 PM
Just stick it down your pant leg. It may be a little hard to walk, but you'll probably get some extra attention from the ladies.

Dreamcast270mhz
June 17, 2011, 06:12 PM
You could always use this: http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mosin-pistol.jpeg

Vlad357
June 20, 2011, 05:14 PM
Yes CCW with a Mosin Nagant was kind of a joke, at least before I saw Dreamcast270mhz's post. I do carry it around the farm a bit, but not concealed. I have something in .357 for that.

Sheepdog1968
June 22, 2011, 04:45 PM
Sounds like you are trying to balance home defense with something you can hunt with. My favorites for this aren't technically mil surplus but would do the job:

mini-30 in 7.62x39
30-30 lever action
new Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308

As for me personally, I find my 30-30 lever action is my favorite rifle (I didn't start out that way, it just kinda happened). As such, when I travel to visit friends on vacation, I often take one rifle (domestic peace with the wife) and sometimes a pistol. Usually it's the 30-30 (becuase I simply like it the best) and I feel quite comfortable if I am huting, social plinking, or needed to defend myself.

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