Suppressor on Your Conceal/Carry Gun


PDA






IcemanUnlimited
June 12, 2011, 04:19 PM
Just felt like learning a bit here.. Would it ever be legal to have a suppressor on your conceal & carry handgun?

Also, could it serve you any real purpose other than being badass? I don't really see a suppressed weapon being very "Defensive".

If you enjoyed reading about "Suppressor on Your Conceal/Carry Gun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ripp
June 12, 2011, 04:42 PM
Unless it's on a .22, its size will make the package utterly impractical, if you get enough suppression to be worth a hoot. Getting a silenced .22 under 9" of OAL takes a lot of advanced thought and work. That is a big gun to try to ccw, except under a trench coat. An adequately suppressed 9mm is going to be at least 12" long, friend.

IcemanUnlimited
June 12, 2011, 04:45 PM
My state has open carry. ;P

Telekinesis
June 12, 2011, 05:35 PM
Legal, probably. Practical? Not even close.

the best suppression you can get with a service caliber weapon would be a 9mm, so the gun likely won't be a very small gun to begin with, and even with a micro suppressor like the Thompson Machine Poseidon, that's still adding 4 or 5 inches on the end of your gun. And remember, the tube is going to be wide enough that it won't fit through any holster made for concealment unless you go with a custom rig.

And forget about putting it on right before you need to use the gun. "officer, I was in such immediate fear for my life that I took the time to thread a suppressor onto the end of my gun before I shot him"

Then there are mandated minimum sentences for comittimg crimes with all NFA weapons. Not that any of us go out looking to commit a crime, but any time you have to use a defensive weapon, there's a pretty good chance of getting arrested. I wouldn't want to give them anything else to charge me with, or give them any reason to think I'm the bad guy. (Let's be honest, what DA would turn down the chance to put away that "evil assassin who used a silencer on that poor guy" and instantly increase their chances of getting a promotion?)

ripp
June 12, 2011, 07:00 PM
then why did you ask about a ccw gun, hmm? There are 6" long 9mm's, but you have to add an inch or so of threaded barrel in order to mount the can. A 5" long 9mm can, even if used 'wet" would not be very quiet, even with subsonic loads, and subsonic 9mm's are poor manstoppers, like lrn .38 specials, basically. 1000 fps is unlikely to get you any expansion of a 9mm in flesh, with the possible exception of the Hydrashok

Zak Smith
June 12, 2011, 08:55 PM
even with subsonic loads, and subsonic 9mm's are poor manstoppers, like lrn .38 specials, basically. 1000 fps is unlikely to get you any expansion of a 9mm in flesh, with the possible exception of the Hydrashok
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php?sort=grade1

Using that standardized FBI penetration data, the best 9mm load is a 147 Ranger @ 1017 (best average "wound volume" clothed and bare gel).


Then there are mandated minimum sentences for comittimg crimes with all NFA weapons.
I've never heard of this. Can you provide a cite?

Telekinesis
June 12, 2011, 09:10 PM
Ive actually heard that the new generation of micro suppressors (wet and wiped) are pretty close to the "normal" suppressors that only use baffles. That is, of course, only for the first mag or so, then you have to replace the gel/water and the wipes.

As far as subsonic 9mm, the standard loadings are 147gr and 158gr (both standard pressure) as opposed to the 115, 124, and 147+p loadings which are supersonic. 147gr ammo is actually pretty good for defensive use and even meets the FBI minimum penetration distances. FYI all your high quality Speer and Remington (among others) 147gr defensive ammo is subsonic.



Unfortunately I can't provide a direct cite at the moment as I'm on my phone rather than my computer. I'll look through my copy of fed code and see if I can find it tonight.

Telekinesis
June 12, 2011, 09:23 PM
Then there are mandated minimum sentences for comittimg crimes with all NFA weapons.
I've never heard of this. Can you provide a cite?

Sorry for the double post, but did a quick google search and found the PDF (http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v08n2/44.clark/clark.pdf) that actually got me looking into the topic of min sentences for crimes committed while in possession of a suppressor. The legal cite sould come up on the first page. Granted, this is a few years old, but I don't think there has been any change in the law since it was written.

Zak Smith
June 12, 2011, 09:50 PM
Thanks.

Flfiremedic
June 14, 2011, 09:22 AM
I would be afraid of post shoot liability. Even "Good" shoots can end up in civil suits and a complaintaint's atty would have a field day with it.

JustinJ
June 14, 2011, 03:10 PM
"the best suppression you can get with a service caliber weapon would be a 9mm,"

Are you saying that a 9mm can be suppressed to a lower decibel than a .40 or .45?

Zak Smith
June 14, 2011, 03:11 PM
I can't speak for him, but my experience backs that up.

JustinJ
June 14, 2011, 03:23 PM
How about for home defense? I assume it would be a bad idea from a legal perspective to use a can on a gun used in a HD shooting but is it technically against federal or any state laws? My MSAR makes a great HD gun given the length but the muzzle blast would not be pleasant in the living room.

Strykervet
June 14, 2011, 04:46 PM
I also heard you can get five years for using an NFA item in a non-justifiable homicide (ie, defensive shooting). For that reason alone, I wouldn't use one for defense (and that Serbu Super Shorty sure would be a nice all-purpose truck/HD shotgun).

It has been brought up before on another site concerning the use of suppressors (which we just got in WA) and AOW's (which we have).

Remove those stupid, useless federal laws! I for one, would like to use a suppressor on a rifle for HD. I'd like to keep a Super Shorty in the truck. But it isn't worth the gamble if you have to use it and a jury finds you guilty of the lowest form of non-justifiable homicide (for whatever reason). When the judge might have given you just probation based on the facts, you now get that plus five years because it was an NFA item.

JustinJ
June 14, 2011, 06:04 PM
"I also heard you can get five years for using an NFA item in a non-justifiable homicide"

Do you mean on top of the years you will get for the non-justifiable homicide? The question still remains, in a legally justifiable use of a firearm for SD is it legal to use a silencer?

Telekinesis
June 14, 2011, 06:49 PM
I also heard you can get five years for using an NFA item in a non-justifiable homicide (ie, defensive shooting). For that reason alone, I wouldn't use one for defense (and that Serbu Super Shorty sure would be a nice all-purpose truck/HD shotgun).

It has been brought up before on another site concerning the use of suppressors (which we just got in WA) and AOW's (which we have).

If you want to look into it some more, a few posts above I provided a cite and a PDF (http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v08n2/44.clark/clark.pdf) explanation/review of the law with case law to back it up.

Short version is

Any firearm used in a crime of violence = 5 years in addition to original sentence (not positive about this in practice, but that's what the law says...)
SBR/SBS used in a crime of violence = 10 years in addition to original sentence
Machine gun, Destructive Device, or Silencer = 30 years in addition to original sentence

18 U.S.C. 924(c)(1)

EDIT: if anyone has contradictory information (cited legal sources and case law etc.) I would be very interested in hearing it. I'm not too happy about finding this law myself and would love hear that it has been nullified by case law.


"the best suppression you can get with a service caliber weapon would be a 9mm,"

Are you saying that a 9mm can be suppressed to a lower decibel than a .40 or .45?

Of the firearms I've heard fired suppressed, 9mm was quieter than both .40 and .45



JustinJ:
As far as I can tell, if it is a 100%, no doubt about it, clear cut self defense case, it doesn't matter if you use a .22 or a mortar (or a suppressed mortar, since we're talking about suppressors). It doesn't matter if it's CCW or a HD gun. The problem is when you don't have such a clear cut case. I don't know many people who would want to risk an additional 30 years in prison to use a suppressor for SD.

TempestP226
June 14, 2011, 07:15 PM
Somehow, in my mind I see such an incident going something like this...

"Well Your Honor, because it was 0200 while I was being mugged, I thought it would be terribly impolite to awake the nearby residents with the sound of gun fire. So I asked my assailant *pointing to the defendant* to hold onto my wallet while I affixed a suppressor to my pistol. Although still a violent criminal who was at that very moment threatening my life, he acknowledged my right to defend myself; and being considerate enough to realize the inconvenience said defense would cause for all parties not currently involved in the altercation, as well as the attention that would potentially be drawn to himself, he politely acquiesced to my request. As I was in the middle struggling to mount my suppressor he exclaimed, "Nanny nanny boo boo, I've got your wallet!" and made a run for it. It was then, Your Honor, in a fit of humiliation and rage at having been duped by such a no good cheap dirty cheating trickster that I dropped the can and shot him in the arse, thereby awaking the entire neighborhood, and landing me here before you."

SharpsDressedMan
June 14, 2011, 09:00 PM
Legal-to-own suppressor + legally justified self defense shooting = o.k. Legally owned suppressor + unjustified self defense shooting = not o.k. Illegally owned suppressor + anything = not o.k. Taking your chances in today's courts = priceless

JustinJ
June 15, 2011, 09:56 AM
I cant see any reason or practical way to use a suppressor on a CC gun. Not to mention, doing so would look a lot like a "hit" instead of SD.

However, my concern is for HD and to wether or not to leave the suppressor on my MSAR for response to bumps in the night. I understand the risk, but on the other hand, i'm not terribly worried about legal ramifications for shooting a home invader late at night. I do live in TX after all.

If you enjoyed reading about "Suppressor on Your Conceal/Carry Gun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!