Cz p-07


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MikeNice
June 12, 2011, 11:00 PM
I heard that the early P-07s had issues with the magazine releasing. I also read of a couple failing to return to battery with 115gr ammo. Front sight paint also seemed to be a problem area.

Has CZ corrected these issues since the introduction? My wife is getting me a gun for our anniversary in September. This one is high on my list because of the mix of features and price. Any feed back on the model would be appreciated.

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candr44
June 13, 2011, 10:57 PM
I wouldn't buy one sight unseen. I checked out several PO7 pistols and found several with sticky mags. One I couldn't even get the mag out of the gun without prying it out.

This was over a year ago and I believe that the problems have been corrected. I did find one without any problems and I don't regret buying it. It truned out to be very accurate and easy to shoot.

I recently read a interview article with a CZ representative and they apparently have an entire line of pistols planned based on the PO7. From full sized to compact like their RAMI pistol and in .40 caliber also.

Apocalypse-Now
June 14, 2011, 12:44 AM
check out the CZ-forum. there's all sorts of bizarre issues with that gun lol

threefeathers
June 14, 2011, 01:03 AM
I've never seen one fail.

CZF
June 14, 2011, 03:18 PM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-07%20DUTY/p7-19.jpg

While the gun did have some teething problems a few years ago.

The newer 9mms seem to be running good now.

My friend in S. Africa is quite thrilled to have one.

No problems with the .40s from day one.

At least from any guys that I know of.

They really love them.

The testing in the new Annual is quite impressive.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/2011-Front.jpg



----------------------------------------------------------
Pics:

http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/hakan/P-07DUTY.html

Whether or not the CZech Police will replace their P-01s with the
P-07 Duty is not clear yet.


Thailand, India and Burma, along with Israeli forces seems to be quite
content with the Duty.

IT is currently the cheapest CZ 9mm or .40 you can buy.

Look to HIGH NOON for P-07 Duty holsters:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/High%20Noon-P-07%20Duty/HNT-REAR-2.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/High%20Noon-P-07%20Duty/hignoontarg.jpg

www.highnoonholsters.com

www.cz-usa.com
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-07%20DUTY/p7-14.jpg

MikeNice
June 14, 2011, 09:54 PM
CZF, thanks for the post. I actually love the looks of the gun. I just need to get my hands on one to see how much I like it.

I've decided to get either the P-07 Duty or 2075 Rami (Alloy) for my first auto. Then I just saw a Model 64 NY-1 S&W in excellent condition for $342. So, I might be putting off the auto.

Pilot
June 15, 2011, 07:25 AM
I'd like to get one. I handled the P07 recently and seeing it in person changed my mind. The Omega trigger is nice also, but I do want to make sure the frame bulge issue is in the past before I buy.

diyj98
June 15, 2011, 01:06 PM
I agree. I know they say it's cosmetic, but the frame issue kept me from ordering one.

ClickClickD'oh
June 15, 2011, 01:14 PM
I had an early one that liked to keep the mags... that problem has worn out with use and they all pop out free and clear now. The paint insert in my front sight also went missing. Didn't really matter though as I was replacing them with Trits anyways. Not the first CZ where the factory sights have done that.

I really like my P07 a lot. Just beware the trigger heating on active shooting days.

ranburr
June 16, 2011, 03:14 AM
Mine works great thus far, 1K rounds. Will know more when I get around 10K thru it.

MikeNice
June 17, 2011, 06:06 AM
I had one more question and I can not seem to find the answer. Is the P-07 Duty rated for +P ammo? I am thinking of running Winchester "NATO" (124gr+p) rounds for practice. Would the gun handle it?

I was also wondering about the Rami P. Would it handle +P?

The torture test article in the CZ annual has sold me on the P-07. I'm heading to the shop to fondle one either today or next Tuesday. If I like it, I will be getting one in hand by September.

foxmoor
June 17, 2011, 02:44 PM
I have an early one and despite it still hanging on to the magazines most days, it shoots great and has been totally reliable and accurate. I own many CZs and the Omega trigger is an improvement in both lightness and reset over the 'standard' CZ trigger, which is good in most cases (CZ100 is the exception). My very limited experience with CZ customer service has been outstanding. I'd check one out and if it fits your hand (likely), I can certainly recommend one.

Kent in MI

MikeNice
July 1, 2011, 12:48 AM
I bought my CZ P-07. So far the gun has had no issues with mags dropping free or anything of that sort.

I haven't had it on the range yet. I scrubbed it clean and lubed it. Then I spent some time working the slide and dry firing. So far everything is operating exactly as it should. The DA trigger pull has lightened up a little bit and the trigger feels a litle more crisp. If it breaks in with rounds as quick it should be up to speed fast.

So far I am a happy camper. My only complaint is that the magazines are too stiff to load with 16 rounds. I figure they will break in pretty quickly and self correct. If they don't I'll contact CZ.

MikeNice
July 2, 2011, 01:47 AM
50 rounds of RWS fed without an issue. The gun runs like a champion right out of the box.

My wife hates shooting anything bigger than .22WMR and she liked it. After about ten rounds she started dropping them all in the black on a B2 target. She was shooting from about seven yards and nailed a 2.5" four shot group standing free hand.

Today I was completely off. I couldn't keep all of my shots in the scoring area. I had about 70% of my shots land outside of the black. They were generally high and left. Left seems to be the gun. The high impact and spread was all me. I was still having problems when I switched over to my .22WMR revolver.

Overall the gun is geat. I encourage anyone looking for a gun under $500 to try it out. The weight and balance is realy good. With the mag in it feels solid and comfortable. The DA trigger pull can be heavy and awkward if you don't get your finger on there just right. The SA trigger pull is light and breaks cleanly.

The low profile slide and bore axis make the recoil more of a gentle push than a snap. It feels more like a mild wave than a sharp impulse. Once you get dialed in with it the gun is very accurate. At least I believe it is after watching my wife :D

Pilot
July 2, 2011, 09:19 AM
Great report. I think I will pick one up at some point soon!

Any pics?

dhodgins
July 2, 2011, 09:46 AM
My bro bought one about a year ago and his hasn't experienced any of the issues described in this thread. It's had maybe 600-700 rounds through it. Hasn't had a single problem. Not a single failure or hiccup since day 1. It's a great pistol (and an excellent value). The only issue I have with it is the trigger. The single action pull feels more like a double action pull, though as a 1911 guy I'm sort of biased in that area ;)

armoredman
July 2, 2011, 10:40 AM
Glad to hear it's working out well for you, Mike. The Phillipene Islands like it so much they dumped Glock to make the P-07 their issued sidearm.

snooperman
July 2, 2011, 01:59 PM
compared to the P-01 phantom or the Glock 19?

armoredman
July 2, 2011, 05:16 PM
No major difference. :)

MikeNice
July 2, 2011, 10:59 PM
I've never shot any other CZ besides the 82. Compared to that it is easier. Overall it is easy to rack if you overhand it. I have issues trying for the sling shot grip.

The slide release isn't overly stiff. It will require some breaking in though.

MikeNice
July 7, 2011, 10:31 AM
Finally got a chance to run six more rounds through it today. (The total is now a whopping 56.) It fed one Federal Champion 115gr FMJ and five Remmington UMC 115gr FMJ without incident. I figured out most of my acuracy issue. I am pushing the gun left with my trigger finger. I'm also still trying to line up the sights exactly right.

I didn't do as good as I wanted. I did get three of six shots in a 2.5" wide x 4.5" tall area at 7 yards. All six shots were in a 5" x 5" square. That is between the nipples and from the short ribs to the neck. I want to get better with it, but that makes me comfortable for SD.

The DA trigger action is coming in to it's own. It is lightening up a little and losing some of that "stagey" feeling. At first you could feel three distinct stages. They are still there, but they glide by less obtrusively now.

Next Monday I should be heading to the range to run between 100 and 145 rounds. I'll report back after I clean it up and inspect it. I plan on reporting back for the first 500 rounds at least. I want this to be a journal of sorts for other people considering the P-07. There isn't a lot of information out there. So, let this be one resource for those seeking a real world view of the gun.

viking499
July 7, 2011, 10:55 AM
Sounds good, keep the info coming. I am interested to see how it continues to do.

I know the frame is poly. But is the slide steel or stainless? How is the slide "coated", blued or other?

snooperman
July 7, 2011, 12:25 PM
Is it as easy as the Glock 19?

MikeNice
July 7, 2011, 05:41 PM
The slide is made from a single pice of bar stock. That is how CZ describes it. I haven't really looked to see what exactly that means. It feels just like the slide on any other CZ to me. The finish is "black polycoat." Really it looks like a charcoal gray piece of steel. You can't really tell that it is coated with anything.

The slide is very smooth apart from the cocking serrations. It also has some interesting edges that give it a slightly sculpted look. It would be hard for a bg to grab the slide and push it out of battery.

One of the things that is starting to really stand out is the grips. Each side of the slide has an indention that channels your trigger finger directly torwards the trigger. It also makes the trigger reach feel slightly shorter than the other CZ models. Get the gun in the proper hold quickly is easy.

The texture of the grips is great. Being a guy that skate boarded in the 80's I like grip tape art. The texture looks like a high grit grip tape, but is comfortable during shooting. During extended carry it is agrivating against your skin. 50 rounds of shooting didn't produce any discomfort or rawness. I actually had more of an imprint from the front and rear serrations.

I also noticed a nice little touch/extra this morning. The magazine well is beveled. It actually is beveled enough to help guide the magazine if you hit the opening off center or at an angle. A lot of people call that a "custom touch" on other guns. CZ does it with their lowest priced compact gun.

The magazines still won't hold 16 rounds. If this continues to be an issue after I hit 200 rounds I will be calling CZ. It isn't a huge deal and I will live with it if I must. I won't let the loss of two rounds diminsh my enjoyment. Really, when you start talking about the difference betwenn 31 and 33 rounds is it important?

Snooperman, I have not handled a Glock 19 in about a year. I would hate to give you a false impression. I will say this slide is dead easy. It was pretty easy right out of the box. I've been breaking it in by manually cycling rounds through the magazines. After at least 200 cycles (including shooting) it has gotten easier. I can now release it from the locked back position manually.

To put it another way. My wife could easily rack it when it came out of the box. It has only gotten easier and smoother since then.

snooperman
July 7, 2011, 08:24 PM
I want another 9mm but for conceal carry and this one might just be the one I am going too get. I would like to get my hands on one and hopefully I will be able to do that at the next gun show in 2 weeks. I like the way the back of the frame of the CZ guns are made so that when firing it your thumb knuckle is not rapped constantly by the upper part where the grip is, like that which happens to me with the Glocks.

MikeNice
July 7, 2011, 10:41 PM
I would suggest looking at the available holsters. Make sure there is one you think you can live with. Holsters are hard to find unless you go universal or boutique. There isn't much in the middle ground.

armoredman
July 7, 2011, 11:10 PM
High Noon makes some very nice P-07 rigs.

MikeNice
July 8, 2011, 09:56 AM
High Noon holsters are what I consider to be boutiuqe holsters. They run $89 for the cheapest model and go up from there.

What I mean by "middle ground" is that companys like Bianchi, Galco, Safari Land, and Fobus don't have holsters for the P-07. You either buy a universal holster or you plan on dropping $100 for a holster. Than can turn some people off.

I'm glad I didn't know that before hand because I would have passed on the gun. Then I would have missed out.


ETA:
CZ-USA and CZ Customs both have holsters for the P-07 in the $45 to $55 range. None of them really looked like something I would be interested in though.

Kirkpatrick Leather and Falco also make holsters in the middle price range. They have models that are interesting. I just don't know about waiting 10 days for a holster that might not be the best choice for me. Then you are at the mercy of an online retailer that may or may not have decent customer service.

MikeNice
July 10, 2011, 03:51 AM
I ran five rounds of 147gr Winchester Ranger Bonded hollow points. I wanted to make sure they would feed before I loaded up fifteen. They all fed fine.

I didn't know if they would feed properly or not. It seemed like half of the box had rough edges or small burs on the edge of the jacket. I dug through the box and picked out the five worst looking and feeling rounds. They went in the mag just fine. They all fed without a hitch or hiccup.

I shot one through a trio of Bolthouse Farms' juice bottles. It went through all three and was not recovered. There was evidence of expansion starting on the back side of the first bottle. The back of the third bottle had a perfect half inch hole on the back side. So, the bullet opened up exactly the way it should.

(I choose Bolthouse Farms' bottles because they accurately show what the bullet does. There is no big explosion, but the plastic doesn't rip apart like a milk jug. It is more elastic and the only deformation is a bulge in the side wall where the bullet exits.)

The total count is now 61 rounds. There have been no malfunctions of any kind. There are no bulges or other frame issues. The gun is holding up well.

So far the most accurate round for me has been the Remmington UMC 115gr FMJ. It grouped nicely and had minimal kick.

MikeNice
July 11, 2011, 12:59 AM
Off to pop bottles
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/35bf29054f70.jpg

Time to get clean
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a8088effc074.jpg

I put ten more rounds through the gun today. We are now up to 71. Today was the test I was waiting to do. I mixed five 147gr Winchester Ranger Bonded rounds and five 147gr Winchester Ranger FMJ rounds. The FMJ rounds are flat tipped. To me this was where the gun would prove it's worth. If it could run the beat up Bonded and the flat point FMJ, I would be impressed.

It handled the chore without a problem. It ran the flat point and the hollow point with grace and style. After ten rounds the CZ was taunting me. It was begging me to throw another trifling chanllenge in it's direction. So, I conceded.

I am getting use to the gun and the accuracy is improving. I have pulled my four shot groups down to 3.5" at 6 yards with 147gr. I tend to get a flyer in every group of five. Even with the flyer the groups stay around 4.5". That isn't great but it is improving. That should be good enough for most SD encounters. So, I have finally stoked a full clip with the 147gr Ranger ammo for carry. I staggered the FMJ and HP because I get slightly better groups with the FMJ. I don't know why, but I'll take any help I can get.

I field stripped and cleaned the gun afterwards. Everything is still in good shape. There are no bulges or other signs of frame stress. My only concern is that the hammer is now bright and shiny where the slide hits it. I cleaned it well and hope that it doesn't become an issue that leads to gouging or chipping.

A neat little bonus for the day. One of the mags finally started accepting 16 rounds. So, it was loaded as such. However, it required a firm pat to fully engage when at max capacity. I wouldn't try loading it +1 unless I planned on shooting soon. It seems like there may be enough pressure to cause some kind of issue. I'm still using it as a 15+1. I just get to load them all in the mag at once. I'm hoping this issue will clear up.

Monday's range trip has been postponed. The range will be closed for police qualification tests. I am going to try to put both mags down range at an alternative location. Hopefully I will be over 100 by Tuesday.

(If I shoot on Monday I will shoot 14 rounds of 147gr FMJ, 9 rounds of 115gr Federal Champion, and 8 rounds of 147gr Ranger Bonded.)

Gelgoog
July 11, 2011, 02:06 AM
I had one and did not personally care for the cheap soft plastic feel of the frame. Sold it and bought a Steyr M9 instead. The P-07 was a fine handgun, I just wish they made the frame of a harder plastic.

MikeNice
July 11, 2011, 02:49 AM
The polymer on mine feels as sturdy as a Glock or Ruger SR9c. They have made some improvements to the quality of the frame over time. With a mag in the well it feels substantial and strong.

If you get the chance to try out one manufactured with the serial # begining 81 you might change your mind.

MikeNice
July 11, 2011, 10:06 PM
I'm going to stop making plans when it comes to shooting. They all fall through. I did not get to go to the range or my alternate location. My kid's day care flooded when a water pipe burst. So, I was up well before I wanted to be. I was also occupied and didn't get to make the big trip.

I did have time to set up a test in my bag yard. I just completed a thorough amatuer expansion test of the Winchester Ranger Bonded 147gr round.

I shot three rounds in to bottles of Bolthouse Farms Blue Goodness. One round was fired high, another in the middle, and the third bullet low. All bullets hit liquid. To make things interesting I placed two layers of medium weight t-shirt and two layers of sweat shirt over the bottles. It represents actual winter wear in my area.

All three rounds did expand. The largest expanded to 9/16ths of an inch. The other two expanded to 7/16ths of an inch. None of the bullets appeared to be clogged. They all penetrated at least 14 inches and came to rest in the final jug.

I noticed that several of the transition holes were oddly shaped. It appeared that two of the bulltets may have turned side ways during penetration. Does that really effect performance? I'm not sure. I do know that the "sideways" holes measured slightly larger than the straight holes at the widest point. I couldn't tell which wound profile would be "better." I just know that they both could be lethal.

My next test was using old plastic ice cream jugs. A friend of mine donated the jugs and tops. His church had used them for easter baskets and had a ton left over. He asked if I wanted them and I said "oh yeah." I filled them up and laid the legs of an old pair of jeans across the front. In my estimation that is for layers of denim. I have only worn the jeans twice so they wear still heavy and stiff.

I fired three bullets with the same basic results as the first test. I measured a shortest penetration of 15 and 5/8 inches. The longest was 16 and 3/8 inches. Expansion was roughly .5 inches for every bullet. One bullet was recovered laying sideways in the water.

Then I decided to try a test the FBI doesn't use. I stuffed a milk jug of water in to the cavity in a cinder block. Then I fired two rounds through the block. It looked like the picture of expansion through steel. It was pretty much a round little gnarled ball. It would still be potentially lethal. So, if you ever have to shoot through half a cinder block you should be okay. :p

The round count is now 79. There are still no major issues and I'm happy with the gun. I'm still jerking the trigger a little bit. You can feel when the hammer goes from half cock to full cock. I am seriously over compensating for the slight stacking.

I will repost the ammo portion as a seperate thread for those that aren't following the thread.

MikeNice
July 19, 2011, 10:36 PM
Well I finally got to run another good string of ammo through the P-07. I shot a 60 round mix of 115gr and 147gr FMJ. I also ran 5 more of my Ranger Bonded 147gr rounds to test "combat accuracy."

There were absolutely zero problems with the gun. It ran fine. Everything fed and fired without a hitch. The trigger is continuing to smooth out. The DA pull is losing the stiffness between "stages." The SA pull is improving, but not as fast.

I am loving the gun more every time I shoot it.

The only issue with the gun is the shooter. I have to work on maintaining trigger and stance discipline. I've went from jerking the trigger to tightening my grip and dropping my head. I kept all of my shots in the scoring area of a B-2 target. I wouldn't really call it grouping though. The average spread was 4" at 8 yards.

I'm going to be seeking out professional help. I was shooting sub 3" groups at that distance with .38spl+P in a 3" barrel. Now I'm out to 4" with all of my guns.

So far the gun is great and the shooter is garbage.

Total Round Count: 144

BRE346
July 20, 2011, 03:13 PM
I'm looking forward to learning if mine is going to be as good as claimed by others.

This P07 is on the way back to Denver with a warped frame and a black-coated barrel ramp. I surely hope this is not common in a CZ.

Pilot
July 20, 2011, 07:53 PM
I talked to CZ-USA recently about some parts I wanted to install, and brought up that I was going to be buying a P-07 at some point and asked if the frame bulge and mag drop issues had been resolved. The technician said that they had been fixed now and look for one with a serial number in the 8000 range. FYI.

MikeNice
July 21, 2011, 01:33 AM
Some of the early ones were pretty rough. CZ has been out right replacing many of them with a new gun. I would trust in CZ to return you something enjoyable.

For anybody else buying a P-07 I suggest going to your LGS and ordering it. That seems to be the best way to get a mid or late 2010 manufactured pistol. The one my co-worker ordered from Bud's was a late 2009 with the 6 serial number. The two that my LGS ordered were both from September 2010.

If you look on the right side of the slide you can find the manufacture year. It will be stamped just before the serial number near the muzzle.

MikeNice
July 23, 2011, 08:25 PM
I just ran 23 rounds of 115gr Remington FMJ and 9 rounds of 147gr Winchester Ranger bonded. The total count is 176 rounds.

The gun is running fine. The stages are completely gone in the DA pull. There is a bit of stacking up now. The DA pull feels like SA untill the last 1/4 of the pull. Then the weight piles on.

The SA pull is lightening up. It is short and crisp. It feels more like a SAA clone than a 1911. Hopefully that makes sense to somebody besides me. :D

My groups are coming together. When I was finishing up with the 147gr I managed two 2.25" groups at 6 yards. At 8 yards it was 2 and 13/16".

I still love the gun and I would still recomend a new one to anybody looking for a handgun between $450 and $500.

There was one unusual thing that happened. When I got to the last nine rounds it started tossing them to the left and backwards over my head. Previously it was throwing the brass 4- 7 feet right. It still tosses the brass a good distance it has just become omnidirectional.

MikeNice
August 7, 2011, 03:30 AM
I ran another 48 rounds of ammunition through the gun Saturday. The total is now 224.

I shot 16 rounds of CCI Blazer Brass 124gr. The gun shoots this stuff so well I might start looking at 124gr for carry. The gun was cold and I was cold, so to speak. These were the first sixteen rounds down the "range." I had two groups of three that overlapped and tore a nice ragged hole in the left side of the bullseye from seven yards. I kept the whole clip in a 5.25" circle at a nice measured clip.

Next up was 147gr Winchester USA hollow points. I recieved these as a gift and will probably use them as back up to my Ranger Bonded after I personally test a couple. They fed and fired well. My accuracy wasn't as good with these rounds. Firing a little faster than with the Blazer I struggled to maintain a 6.25" group. I was shooting faster, the mosqitues had come out and I was sweating like a pig. Still I was disapointed with my performance.

The last string was 16 115gr Federal Champion rounds. I was sweating so bad it was getting in my eyes. The themometer was reading 93 degrees, the humidity was bad, and the mosqitoes were using my face for a buffet. So, I rushed through these. I wanted to get back inside and wipe down. All 16 rounds fired and fed without exception. I managed to keep them all on the paper of a Birchwood Casey/ Winchester 6" target. That is about the only thing I can say. It was ragged and sloppy shooting.

So far I have had zero malfunctions with this gun. The mags still drop like a lead weight. The magazines hold 16 rounds but, the last one still feels a little too tight. I might switch back to 15 + 1. I just feel like there is too much tension against the feed lips with 16 rounds.

The trigger is getting better with every shot. The stages are gone and the stacking is less of an issue. As good as this gun is now, it makes me excited to think of the feel after 500 or 600 rounds.

This gun could have been pressed in to service straight out of the box. That seems to be pretty rare these days. Well, it seems to be rare in internet land. I can honestly say that I trust this gun to serve when needed. I would trust this gun to save my life. More importantly I trust this gun to save my wife and kid's lives if needed.

On the next report we will see how well Winchester USA 147gr hps do through t-shirt in to water, or I'll shoot from 15 yards to test my own ability.

Taptaps
August 7, 2011, 04:13 AM
I wasn't really in to the p-07, seeing it online and in magazines, but I handled one in the store and I was impressed. The fit and finish seems good and I like that it has many of the traits my PCR had (half-cock, similar feel on the decocker, similar feel on the trigger). I had kind of written it off as an obligatory polymer that would not really have the CZ DNA, but I was wrong. That being said, I can't comment on the reliability.

MikeNice
August 21, 2011, 05:28 PM
14 days without shooting and I could tell. I fired five rounds of 147gr Winchester USA JHP. I managed to miss the 3" x 5" target area completely at eight yards. Which sucked because I was trying to test for expansion after passing through four layers of t-shirt with a vinyl design on the front.

Oh well, 229 rounds and no problems to report.

MikeNice
August 22, 2011, 07:57 PM
I went out and put 175 rounds of 115gr and 147gr ammo through the gun today. It definitely needs a good cleaning. Unfortunately I also need to get in touch with CZ-USA.

The gun fails to stay open on the last shot. It seems to happen randomly. The only common factor is the magazine in use. It is the magazine that I usually carry 16+1. I don't know if it is an issue with the magazine itself or something more serious.

I also had a bad experience with two rounds of Winchester Ranger 147gr FMJ. Twice when I fired there was severe muzzle flash and the case jammed itself in to the barrel. THe round below it moved up just enough to freeze everything up. The slide locked back and froze up. I had to disassemble the magazine while it was in the gun. After the rounds fell out I had to pull out the unfired round. Then Racking the slide several times caused the jammed case to fall out. Both cases looked swollen compared to the other brass from the range session.

I have no idea what causes that kind of malfunction. Can anybody enlighten me? I plan on getting in touch with CZ on Tuesday. They were closed when I called today. Their office hours are 9am - 4pm central time.

Right now I trust the gun to work properly. I am not trusting the Winchester ammo now. So, I will not be ordering anymore in the future.

Pilot
August 22, 2011, 08:44 PM
Mike,

Try new magazine springs from Wolff to stop the slide not locking back issues. Don't know what happened with the Winchester ammo. Sounds like a few overloaded rounds.

MikeNice
August 23, 2011, 12:44 AM
I checked out the gun when I broke it down for cleaning. There is no evidence of damage to the barrel. I think the shell expanded in the chamber and caused the issue. It came out after a few hard yanks on the slide. So, I think it was just a matter of "inching" it out.

The case was noticably larger to the naked eye. Plus the expansion was uniform. So, I don't believe it got in to the barrel.

armoredman
August 23, 2011, 02:13 AM
Sounds like an ammo problem. Also, have you cleaned the inside of your magazines? Packing goop can harden over time if not removed given a very light coat of oil...very very light coat. That might cause you mag follower not to fully pop up and engage the bolt hold open. As to the expanded rounds, can you post pics? I have had several issues with Winchester ammo in the past and won't buy any of their products. The customer service is horrible as well.
To be "expanded" means the cartridge had to be outside of the chamber, or the case would be no larger than any other fired brass. Bright fireball at the muzzle, makes me wonder if the ammo was double charged or worse, and forcing the sidearm into an early unlock, hence partially/trying to eject while hot gasses are still expanding in the barrel. Just a theory, I am not an engineer. Never hurts to call 1-800-955-4486 and ask the gunsmiths there.

MikeNice
August 23, 2011, 03:07 AM
The first thing I did when I bought my CZ was break it down and clean it. I had heard the horror stories about the packing grease.

I cleaned both mags pretty well. Then I cleaned them again after a hundred rounds. Now when I clean them I have a small process I go through. I take the mag apart and spray the inside walls with a light amount of Birchwood-Casey synthetic cleaner. I use a clean lint free towel or rag to wipe out the inside. If that comes out dirty I wipe it out again. Then I use a mop on a "t" handle to ensure that the interior is clean and dry. After that I spray the magazine spring lightly and rub clean. Then I use a Winchester gun cloth to rub down the spring again to give it a light coating. I also clean the floor plate. I haven't tried pulling the follower off to clean underneath of it.

I wish I had taken pictures of the brass and the gun. I just didn't think of it. My first response was "what the heck." My second thought was, "I would be dead if this was real." Taking a picture never crossed my mind.

I think you might have figured out the issue. As I think about the situation I realize I initially described the issue incorrectly. The fired/expanded shell was hanging about half way out over the feed ramp when I looked to see why the slide was open. I pulled the trigger, the round went off, and then it became partially extracted. It seems that your explanation fits what happened best.

My initial identification of the area of issue as the barrel was completely wrong. Growing up the chamber was always referred to as part of the barrel. Combine that with more revolver experience than semi-auto experience, add a dash of anger and a pinch of confusion. Then you get a completely botched request for help.

When I say the case was swollen I mean about 3/4 of it looked abnormally large. When I set it beside a Remington 115gr case it looked like a larger caliber.

Whatever happened I am sure it was not the CZ's fault. The large muzzle flash at 4pm tells me something was wrong with the ammo. I have never had an issue with muzzle flash from Winchester Ranger ammo during daylight hours. Even at late dusk it usually isn't very noticable. A couple of other rounds spit sparks to a lesser extent.

I know one thing for sure. I will find it hard to trust my life to Winchester ammo from here on out. If they have QC issues like that with supposedly "LE grade" ammunition there is a problem some where.


I'm going to call CZ about the magazine on Tuesday. So, I'll ask them about the whole situation.

MikeNice
October 17, 2011, 07:14 AM
490 rounds total down range after Sunday. Me and my wife went through 86 rounds. There was no major issue. We fired 50 rounds of Aguila 124gr FMJ and 36 rounds of 124gr Blazer Brass.

I am disappointed in the performance of the CZ P-07 magazines though. The second of the original magazines is starting to malfunction. It failed to hold the slide open after the last round two out of seven times.

I've gotten to the point I can pretty much put 75% of my shots in the red on a Birchwood-Casey/Winchester target at seven yards. The gun is controlable and a joy to shoot. I am still happy that I purchased the gun. I just wish that the magazine springs were of better quality. I have been downloading to 15+1 ever since the first magazine started to malfunction. It hasn't really helped and that is a little disturbing.

Pilot
October 17, 2011, 11:18 AM
Get some extra power magazine springs, which will solve this issue.

http://www.gunsprings.com

MikeNice
October 17, 2011, 03:49 PM
The P-07 magazine isn't the same as the other compacts. Will the springs for the regular compact's magazine work?

Pilot
October 17, 2011, 03:56 PM
I'd give them a try. They're pretty inexpensive. Or call CZ and get new ones.

MikeNice
November 2, 2011, 03:58 AM
Took the gun out again and hand multiple FTEs that resulted in double feeds. Double feeds in this gun always lock the slide back and freeze the mag release. I'm going to be contacting CZ about the repeated magazine issues. The springs in every magazine they have supplied wore out in less than a dozen cycles.

I am going to sell the gun. I just refuse to trust a gun were the design causes it to freeze up on FTEs.

PabloJ
November 2, 2011, 04:38 AM
Took the gun out again and hand multiple FTEs that resulted in double feeds. Double feeds in this gun always lock the slide back and freeze the mag release. I'm going to be contacting CZ about the repeated magazine issues. The springs in every magazine they have supplied wore out in less than a dozen cycles.

I am going to sell the gun. I just refuse to trust a gun were the design causes it to freeze up on FTEs.
It looks like CZ owes you a lot of money. Full refund for the gun, price of ammo used and most importantly time spent on the range. Thanks for saving me money, time and hassle.

MikeNice
November 2, 2011, 05:57 AM
I love the gun. It is an amazing shooter. I was hitting red with double taps at 10 yards. If the gun didn't freeze up, I would find a way to correct the spring problem myself. The freezing just makes it unsafe in a self defense scenario.

To correct the problem you have to take the base plate off of the mag while it is in the gun. You then have to let all of the ammo and the internals fall out. The next step is to dislodge the bottom bullet in the double feed. After that the slide slams home. You can then press the mag release and pull the mag body out. Yank the slide back a couple of times and the spent case falls free. Then, put in a second mag and continue shooting.

You could put the second mag in before attempting to extract the spent case. One time it worked. The second time it lead to another double feed.

This happened with Blazer Brass 124gr, Aguila 124gr, and Winchester USA 147gr JHP.

I'm thinking of trading it in on a Stoeger Cougar Compact.

Bozwell
November 2, 2011, 09:45 AM
I'd try and resolve the issue with CZ before trading it. That's not typical behavior for the P-07 series and it sounds like something is wrong with the firearm. To sell it as is, I would feel ethically obligated to disclose the problems it's having and that will of course impact its resale value. CZ has very reputable customer service and I'm sure they'd be able to resolve the issues you're having, one way or the other. Trading it at this point seems premature.

MikeNice
November 2, 2011, 10:56 AM
The FTE's have been rectified. A friend of mine checked it over for me. He called this morning and told me that small piece of metal had gotten between the extractor and frame. It was small enough that he almost missed it completely. I did miss it when I field stripped the gun.

He got it cleared out and fired a few rounds to test it, this morning. He experienced no FTEs. However, the fact that a malfunction as simple as a double feed or FTE can completely freeze the gun scares me. That can be fatal in the real world. This is my daily carry pistol. A design flaw like that is unacceptable.

Add to it that every magazine has failed, and I am totally turned off. Maybe the mags are just a bad bunch. Still 0 for 3 is a bad record. All three magazines have began failing to hold the slide open. To me that is a signal of trouble to come.

I just don't trust the gun anymore. Once the mags are replaced it should operate as designed. I just feel that design has a catastrophic flaw.

m2steven
November 2, 2011, 08:42 PM
I've had a P07 for 3 or 4 months now and it's one of my favorite 9mm pistols. It's got a trigger on par with my Kahrs and it's built like a tank and performs like a precision piece of equipment.

I would liken it to my Springfield 3.8 9mm Xdm but they are SO different physically. The triggers are similar and they both have the same quality feel and function. The CZ is 100+ dollars less expensive.

The Springfield has a grip safety which I never think about (people make such a big deal over this stuff). Also a decocker and thumb safety if I'm not mistaken. The Xdm and P07 are different but basically the same. Great pistols.

MikeNice
November 15, 2011, 09:14 PM
The gun will be going back to CZ on Thursday. So far all they have said is "we can take care of that." They haven't said if it is a design issue that causes the freezing. They refuse to give any idea what might be causing the issue. I had to complain to get them to pay shipping. They just told me to ship it back or get my FFL to do it.

I was underwhelmed by the level of service. It seemed like they really couldn't care less about being personable. They aren't concerned about your concerns. Just send the gun and they'll do something. Not a great way to keep customers.

If somebody has had three mags die and the gun is freezing it seems like you would be trying to ease their concerns. At least say, "sorry for the issues." No, CZ-USA just says, "we can handle that," and "send it in or have your ffl send it in." Even after I told them that my issues with the gun may affect my decision to buy another CZ they didn't seem to care.

I am severely underwhelmed.

miles1
November 15, 2011, 09:43 PM
This thread as made me re-evaluate wether i want to invest in CZ now.I hope the CZ75 doesnt have these issues as it was on my wish list for early febuary.

Quick Shot xMLx
November 16, 2011, 03:21 AM
That's an extremely weird problem and definitely not common with the gun. I have about 1000 rounds through my P07 and I haven't experience anything like that. Just wondering what model number is it? I have an A98xxxx and the 2 problems the earlier models are known for(mag drop/FTE) have definitely been addressed with this one because the mags drop like bricks and I've never seen a gun chuck brass so far before:cool:

Bozwell
November 16, 2011, 02:40 PM
This thread as made me re-evaluate wether i want to invest in CZ now.I hope the CZ75 doesnt have these issues as it was on my wish list for early febuary.
Every manufacturer has the occasional lemon and you tend to hear more about people's problems than when everything is working perfectly. That said, you can find plenty of reports of CZ providing absolutely fantastic customer service. I have 4 CZ's from the 75 series - a Pro-tek I, a Shadow custom, a 75B LE and a Phantom. The only problem any of them has ever had was I had the finish chip on the slide once. CZ refinished it for me without any questions asked. I haven't had a single malfunction though in any of these guns with thousands of rounds down range.

Ultimately it's your call if you end up writing the company off because of a bad report you read on this forum, but I'd also say it's your loss if you never own a CZ handgun. If you look, you can also find plenty of positive reviews of CZ firearms and CZ customer support.

As far as the P-07 design having a catastrophic flaw, I guess I just haven't seen evidence of that. There are tons of people who own these guns and they operate flawlessly. The earlier models did have some issues which they've now corrected and I've heard they are also changing the polymer they use in the frame to prevent the cosmetic bulge issues (starting next year I believe). If you had an errant piece of metal stuck in the extractor, that sounds like the source of your problems rather than some flaw in the design of the gun. That said, if you believe yours is simply a lemon and it's been sent back multiple times, I'd talk to their support department about possibly just swapping it out with another gun. Sometimes that's the easiest way to "fix" a gun with repeat problems.

armoredman
November 16, 2011, 02:52 PM
I am surprised, CZ-USA service has always been top notch, not that any of my CZs ever required it. The new P-07s coming out, like the version with the adjustable rear sight and threaded barrel, really caught my eye. I have also heard that the material has been upgraded, and that the newest ones were having no problems, very sorry yours has been a bad apple.
Perhaps you could ask to swap for a Phantom? Mine has been so outstanding it replaced my P-01 as daily carry.

Pilot
November 16, 2011, 04:57 PM
If your P-07 is sub 8000 range in serial number, that may be the issue. See if CZ will give you a later made gun.

All my CZ's have been flawless, and I've owned them for over 11 years. Try a PCR as a carry piece. That is what I use. Its great.

miles1
November 16, 2011, 05:00 PM
Every manufacturer has the occasional lemon and you tend to hear more about people's problems than when everything is working perfectly. That said, you can find plenty of reports of CZ providing absolutely fantastic customer service. I have 4 CZ's from the 75 series - a Pro-tek I, a Shadow custom, a 75B LE and a Phantom. The only problem any of them has ever had was I had the finish chip on the slide once. CZ refinished it for me without any questions asked. I haven't had a single malfunction though in any of these guns with thousands of rounds down range.

Ultimately it's your call if you end up writing the company off because of a bad report you read on this forum, but I'd also say it's your loss if you never own a CZ handgun. If you look, you can also find plenty of positive reviews of CZ firearms and CZ customer support.

As far as the P-07 design having a catastrophic flaw, I guess I just haven't seen evidence of that. There are tons of people who own these guns and they operate flawlessly. The earlier models did have some issues which they've now corrected and I've heard they are also changing the polymer they use in the frame to prevent the cosmetic bulge issues (starting next year I believe). If you had an errant piece of metal stuck in the extractor, that sounds like the source of your problems rather than some flaw in the design of the gun. That said, if you believe yours is simply a lemon and it's been sent back multiple times, I'd talk to their support department about possibly just swapping it out with another gun. Sometimes that's the easiest way to "fix" a gun with repeat problems.
Fair enough as i have no experience with CZ's myself.Im assuming the full metal CZ 75's are very well made.Just watched hickok45's review and it sure looks it would look nice with my M9 beretta.

Judging by the OP's feedback it doesnt sound like CZ's customer support is too helpful.Would like to hear the outcome of this thread eventually.

Bozwell
November 16, 2011, 05:35 PM
Well to be fair, the OP's FTE issue seems to have been caused by a piece of errant metal stuck in his extractor and were cured once that was removed. Given that he put 500 rounds through it before the FTE's started, it seems likely that it wasn't stuck in there from the factory. From what I can tell, he's sending it back to CZ because he had some bad malfunctions he couldn't clear that were caused by that random piece of metal stuck in the extractor. However, I've seen a Sig malfunction (from a friend's limp wristing) that took two of us at the range and a leatherman tool to clear. Malfunctions are sometimes tough to clear and I would think that's particular likely when you have a foreign object stuck inside the gun.

Given those facts and that the FTE issue is apparently resolved, I don't really know what he expected the support representative to say other than send it in and we'll take a look at it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying he should be going through magazines that quickly. He shouldn't. I guess I'm not really seeing how the support department let the OP down under these circumstances.

miles1
November 16, 2011, 05:53 PM
Then in that regard im assuming the mags made by CZ in general are pretty good?Or have there been any reported problems with just this model maybe?

MikeNice
November 16, 2011, 08:33 PM
Boz, I had the same issue earlier with the gun. I had a sub 400 round FTE that resulted in the same lengthy correction. The piece of metal made the FTEs more common. However, the steps to correct it have been the same every time.

I also had another FTE today when manually cycling the gun. I took the long steps of getting it cleared. I then took it out with 124gr Aguila FMJ. On the fourth shot it locked up tight. I cleared it again and put it on the shelf. Every single FTE leads to the same process no matter how or when it occurs.

The gun is being sent out Friday.

MikeNice
November 16, 2011, 08:39 PM
Miles,

CZ has a good reputationin general. The P-07 has been going through some birthing pains. I got one with the A81 serial number. The mags have been dropping just fine. I have had no issues with the polymer.

My problems have been with the mag springs and the FTEs freezing the gun. I have heard of no issues with the magazines that come with the more established metal compacts.

miles1
November 16, 2011, 09:51 PM
Miles,

CZ has a good reputationin general. The P-07 has been going through some birthing pains. I got one with the A81 serial number. The mags have been dropping just fine. I have had no issues with the polymer.

My problems have been with the mag springs and the FTEs freezing the gun. I have heard of no issues with the magazines that come with the more established metal compacts.
Thanks for the response pertaining to the CZ75's as im still strongly considering getting one.

Quick Shot xMLx
November 16, 2011, 10:32 PM
Man that's weird because I haven't heard of any problems with the magazines. When you talked to them did you tell them you just want an entirely new gun/mags? They would just send you a different one. Sounds like you just have a bad one, it happens just take a look at the Gen 4 Glocks.

Also, you use some crappy ass ammo;)

ratt_finkel
November 16, 2011, 10:55 PM
As someone who loves most guns and isn't loyal to any brand. I must say I am thoroughly impressed with the P-07 duty. (75b is the only other CZ I've shot, fondled most of the others).

When this new model came out, I didn't see anything special about it. Just another lack luster polymer gun on the market. Unique styling, but still.

All that changed the 1st time I pulled the trigger. When you 1st grip the gun it just seems to line up naturally. It has an off feeling. Not cheap or plasticky, but certainly doesnt give you the tingles like a nice 1911 or 92FS.

The sights are decent enough and align well. Wow is this thing a shooter! There is virtually no recoil. And muzzle flip feels on par or better with the 92FS. Smooth as butter. Follow up shots are a breeze. Out to 15 meters it was accurate as several other full-size guns I had on the table.

This thing shoots like an all metal auto. All you die hard steel guys have to shoot this gun. You will fall in love with it!

leadcounsel
November 17, 2011, 01:39 AM
Overall good gun. I have two and no magazine drop free issues. Reliable and accurate and fun to shoot.

My only complaints are the cheap feeling safety lever and the cheap site paint. The paint came off when I got some cleaning solution on it.

MikeNice
December 18, 2011, 11:18 PM
I finally got my gun back from CZ. Well, actually I got a completely new gun. The manufacture date is 2011. I haven't had a chance to run it or even clean it yet. I'll do all of that on Tuesday.

The only thing I've noticed is that the slide release is extremely stiff. It takes both thumbs to disengage. I'm hoping it loosens up some. I might still just bypass doing anything with it and trade it in on a Stoeger or Ruger SR9c.

Quick Shot xMLx
December 19, 2011, 12:42 AM
It'll loosen up after some use. I would seriously give the gun another shot as you got a lemon the first time.

MikeNice
December 19, 2011, 06:58 AM
I'm really torn. When the first one worked it was great. Plus it looks like CZ has really improved some aspects of the guun. The feeding ramp appears to be a little wider and is polished to a mirror shine.

Plus, the model has a place in my heart. It was the first CCH I bought because it was what I wanted. The others were a matter of price or opportunity.

We'll see on Tuesday if I decide to shoot it.

Updated:
I got a chance to look at it a little more closely and I'm really iritated. The paint in the rear sight is already coming out on both sides of the "bucket" shape. The polymer feels more rigid and the serations on the slide are deeper. There seems to be some serious improvements.

It seems like they made some improvements and then skimped on some other things. The polymer feels better, the ability to grip the slide is better, the feed ramp is better, and the trigger pull is lighter. However, the slide release requires both thumbs to use and the paint is coming out of the sight.

I don't want to send it back for the sight paint. That seems almost petty considerring they sent me a new gun. However, it is still a gun with issues that will have to be fixed. It just bugs the crap out of me that after paying $483 for a gun I might have to modify it or work on it to get where it should be from the factory.

I'm going to do a dozen or so slide locks and releases to try getting the release loose. If it loosens up I might keep it. The sights will bug the crap out of me but I love the gun. If the release doesn't start to free up, the gun will be gone.

Quick Shot xMLx
December 19, 2011, 03:12 PM
The slide release WILL loosen up, it's not a matter of "if." Play with the slide and put some rounds in it and it will loosen up. The rear sight paint is just about the only "problem" left with the gun after the newer models addressed the drop mag/FTEs, well except the lemon you had:(

Bozwell
December 19, 2011, 09:30 PM
Bummer about the sight. I think I know the sights you're talking about. I really wasn't impressed with the sights that originally came on my phantom and have since replaced them with a competition rear/fiber front. For target work, I'm a big fan of this combination. However, the tritium sights on my LE are very nice. If you end up changing them out for a better night sight, I'd highly recommend those.

sirgilligan
December 19, 2011, 09:55 PM
but I love the gun

You sure had me fooled! :rolleyes:

I know how you feel. Once a firearm has disappointed it is hard not to sell it.
Once I sold a replacement weapon from another manufacturer because I just didn't "want" it anymore. It happens.

Good Luck.

RX-178
December 20, 2011, 12:26 AM
Well, I for one can say that I intend to get one in the near future.

MikeNice
December 20, 2011, 10:19 AM
You sure had me fooled!

Up until the first one developed problms people thought I worked for CZ. I have never liked a gun as much as I liked that one. Now I'm just so torn. I love everything the first gun was, but it betrayed me. Now this one will always be a little suspect.

DinosaurJones
February 6, 2012, 05:05 AM
I went into the shop friday to look around and most likely pick up a G19. I walked out with a gun I had done no research on... the CZ 75 P-07.

I love this gun.

Mine is a 2010 (A81xxxx) and indeed the magazines are very stiff at first (couldn't get the 16th round in either mag, got 16 in after 24 hours of being loaded with 15) Also... the magazines are very hard to insert & eject when fully loaded. Works perfectly with 15 rounds loaded, but i have to force the mag in at 16. I have to press very hard to get it to release a full mag as well. This may work itself out in time though...

I shot it today & can say the trigger blows my other two pistols (G22 & SR9) out of the water...

I picked mine up at Gander Mtn (with a Nebo ProTec Elite HP190 light included) for $450 (probably could have done better at a Mom&Pop but probably not once you include the light, i know, im a sucker for a gimmick) Mine has a manual safety instead of the decocker also. I know that can be switched easily but I think I prefer the safety over the decocker.

now for the REAL question... what are you guys carrying your P-07 in? I was looking for a decent leather belt holster but the results online are SCARCE to say the least (don't know if i can make myself drop $90+ on a boutique)

MikeNice
February 7, 2012, 07:45 PM
CZ sent me a replacement pistol. It is a newer 2011 manufactured gun. The polymer is more sturdy, the serrations are deeper, and the recoil sping and guide rod are now a captive setup. Everything has loosened up and works as smooth as butter.

I've put about 15 rounds through the gun. It feels stronger and more stable. So far I am happy with it.

As far as carrying goes, I use a BLACKHAWK! universal holster I bought for $13. It actually feels more comfortable than the High Noon holster I tried out.

DinosaurJones
February 7, 2012, 08:19 PM
Oo. I wonder if I can buy a captive recoil spring for mine...

iblong
February 8, 2012, 08:02 AM
For the weight difference I'll stick with my P-01.

armoredman
February 8, 2012, 10:04 AM
I wouldn't mind trying the rebuilt P-07, sounds nice. Now comes in OD green, and a suppressor ready set up with threaded barrel and higher sights.

Dino, the best P-07 holster I ever used is the High Noon ones - they do carry some cheaper versions than the $130 ones...but they are worth it.

cyphirx
February 11, 2012, 05:03 PM
I just got mine today and I'm slightly concerned. Is the rear sight for anyone else not centered? Mines about .025 inches to the right of center. Though it doesn't seem like it, it is definitely enough to show that it is over on one side more then the other. Is this something I should be prepared to either attempt to fix myself, bring to a gunsmith to line up properly or things ought to be alright?

Quick Shot xMLx
February 11, 2012, 05:36 PM
You know now that you mention it my sight is also about a hair to the right. I'm guessing that's how it's supposed to be because mine is very accurate.

cyphirx
February 11, 2012, 08:58 PM
Ya, after a bit of digging, I saw people mentioning that as long as the stamp lined up on the slide and sight that you should be fine and most of the shots on the test page appeared alright so I guess it should be fine. I'm anxious to give her a go next weekend now to see how she'll do.

DinosaurJones
February 13, 2012, 04:00 PM
picked up some leather today from Gazelle... it's EXTREMELY stiff... have to force the gun in and out... $50 on ebay. It occurred to me after fooling with this for a minute that I don't think this holster is molded for the p-07, even though the ebay description said it was. bah... I think it's for an M&P... anyone want to buy it?

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p180/johnnyhuman/DSC00684.jpg

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