[NoBite]

I value the opinions of the folks here and want to run my thoughts by ya. Hope to read yours.

I'm in the market for a 9mm. Here are my requirements (all subjective, of course).

1. Price range: up to $400.
2. New or used: not an issue. Used would be fine.
3. Aesthetics: needs a high "pride-of-ownership" quota.
4. Uses: plinking, possible IDPA, SD gun I can keep in car or truck. Not as likely to be CCW. I have a .45 for that.
5. Finish: needs to be pretty resistant to the elements.
6. Accuracy out of the box: combat accurate. Trigger needs to feel good. Don't really want to have to do lots of tinkering. I have a .45 for that.
7. Action: I like SA. If DA/SA, needs to be able to carried SA in condition 1.
Basically, I want a gun that is fun to shoot, points well, has a nice trigger and is durable enough to be packed away in my vehicle for a time and come out dependable and won't set me back a small fortune. (I have a .45 for that.)

Here is what I am currently considering.

HS2000/XD-9. Yeah, not a SA, but meets most other requirements.

CZ 75B. Really seems to meet all requirements. Haven't found a weak spot yet.

BHP. Not real sure about finding one with a good trigger out of the box.

Please check/challenge my thinking here and add any guns that you think I should consider!

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[CZF]

Have you considered a cz75SA? A few more dollars than
the commercial 75B.

The SA ONLY trigger is very nice. Seems a good option for
you, as you demand Condition One.

Downside: No SAs on the used market that i'm aware of.

find more info in the SA CLUB


www.czforum.com

[Sprout]

The CZ is a great gun. I haven't found a problem with mine yet either :)

[NoBite]

CZF,
Yeah, I thought about the CZSA. No real downsides. But, the B offers the best of both worlds. Condition one when you carry and DA when it sits in the glove box or under the seat of the truck. That's my thought, anyway.

After spending a bit of time at the CZ Forum and reading enough to tire my eyes, the CZ seems like one of those guns that will soon be appreciating in value. Kind of like what happened to the HS2000 when it became known as the XD-9.

But, I'm open to other opinions! Thanks for yours. ;)

[T.Stahl]

Even before I reached the end of your post I thought, "Sounds very much like a CZ75." :)
The only bad thing I can say about CZ75s is that they seem to wear out the axle of the slide stop. But that experience comes for our club's CZs which were made in the late '80s and have been abused by a lot of beginners and which see very little maintenance.
During the time I trained with them (+1 year) I had no problems with them and IIRC a single stoppage due to very weak ammo.

[kalibear45]

You oughta check out the Beretta 92FS too, they are very accurate and reliable pistols. Very popular among law enforcement and of course the military :p

[Mastrogiacomo]

Again, another person that doesn't look to the most under rated gun: the Beretta. It's very easy to take apart for cleaning, highly accurate, looks beautiful, reasonably price (I have two myself and looking for my next Beretta), reliable, and flawless. I recommend a 92FS in full or compact, the Cougar in a 9mm or .45, or if you look the grip better, the Vertec. If the Cougar is ever allowed in my state, all my guns will be Beretta and only Beretta. Haven't found a gun yet that can out perform them in my opinion and even the more expensive guns can't hold a candle to them. :D

[BamBam]

I like the CZ.

If you want a durable finish, consider the EAA Witness (CZ clone) in Wonder finish. You'll also save some money.

I have a Witness .45 (also a CZ clone) in the Wonder finish and it's a great pistol. I've heard that customer service is pretty bad with EAA, though. But I think that most Witness pistols are pretty problem-free.

[4v50 Gary]

CZ. I like the Browning HP, but the DA trigger on the CZ is terrific.

[stevec]

You're going to have a hard time finding a BHP in nice condition under $400 (which seems to be a requirement if you want pride of ownership). You can look for some BHP clones - not the satisfaction of owning the real thing, but if you get one of the better ones, it will feel and shoot just as well. And with the money you save, you can get a sweet trigger job.

And as far as I know, the Berettas don't go for under $400. Probably not even used. But in true THR fashion, I'm sure many other folks will start suggesting HK P7M13 and Sig P210 as well! :banghead:

I'd suggest taking a look at the CZ-85 combat as well. It goes for a little over $400, but it is supposed to have a nicer trigger than the CZ-75b.

The XD-9 is single action (certainly more single action than the Glock is). The long slide version sounds like it would be a nice range gun. But you know, it _is_ plastic - pride of ownership (to me) is a gun that has a nice heft, and you can put cool looking wood grips on it.

Steve

[hksw]

My first 9mm was (and still is) a Taurus PT99AF in nickel. Along with the CZ, an excellent full sized centerfire beginner's (and seasones shooter's) 9mm gun for a low price, IMO.

DA/SA, frame mounted safety, cocked&locked capable.

[Sven]

CA75B with Hakan grips:

http://www.imageseek.com/hakan/birch_small.jpg
Hakan's Custom Grips (http://www.imageseek.com/hakan)

Convert to SA later if you want. Hakan's grips add that extra-special boost to the Pride of Ownership factor, in my humble though frequently broadcasted opinion.

[10-Ring]

I'd go w/ either the XD 9 or the CZ 75 depending on which felt better in my hands or which frame material you prefered.

[cratz2]

Some have reported issues with theirs but my Taurus PT99 has been 100% for thousands of rounds. But my recommendation would be a CZ or an EAA. Later on, if you want a better trigger, George Smith at Evolution Gun Works does impecable work.

[Blueduck]

I once had an older Taurus 92 that had the frame mounted safety which meant it could be carried cocked and locked.

Not fantastic accuracy or trigger but both ok and never had a malfunction with it. Might find one well under your price limit, but not sure about the pride of ownership thing:confused:

[denfoote]

Look at the Ruger KP95DC. It's kinda ugly---at first, but it grows on ya, and nothing says tough like a Ruger!!! It's built like a tank (and looks like one too), eats anything I feed it (including Wolf), and goes BANG everytime I squeeze the trigger!! It's also in your sugessted price range!!
BTW, I was pulling pretty tight groups at 25yds with mine Saturday!!! :D

[Jamie B]

I have a Ruger P89 SS that I purchased several years ago.
Also had the high-cap mags, which was nice. It is as strong as a tank! I added Pacmayr rubber grip inserts, which improved handling quite a lot.

I believe that you can get one within your budget.

Good luck on whatever you choose.

Jamie

[Kahr carrier]

Try a Glock.:)

[PCRCCW]

Berreta's, Glocks and Rugers OH MY :evil: For what youre looking for and having nothing against the guns mentioned earlier. The ONLY gun that fits your bill is the HP clone (If you find an FN made HP for that price...RUN!) and the CZ 75/85 series......
You wont regret it....Shoot well

[GW45]

I have a CZ 75BD Police - came with a 15 rnd mag and a 10 rnd mag. Take down is a breeze. I like it and I'm not really a big 9mm fan - like my .45s and 357 Mags.....:D

If you go with the CZ - Cheaper than Dirt has 15 rnd mags for about $20 a piece - granted their not factory mags - but they work. Had a hard time getting the 15th rnd in - filled it with 14 and then waited til the next day and shoved the 15th in and let it set for 2 days - all 15 go in now.

[hansolo]

Speaking of underated combat handguns: S&W semiautos:
I am one of very few people who have had problems with CZ 75B:
I'm picking up a S&W 9mm 910s(Comes in Blue or Stainless), and the 908 is smaller, single stack -- 910s is double stack. -- LEO's dont carry unreliable guns! IMHO.

[Stealthfixr]

As I read your post, my brain was already responding with CZ 75B/D. Then, I saw most everyone else had the same thing in mind. If you like decocking pistols (I do), J&G sales still has the BD version on sale for $319, with a 15 and 10 round magazines.

My CZ 75BD is fabulous--a true joy to shoot, comfortable, very reliable and more accurate than I am (bunch of us range rats recently shot at a 1x1 metal plate 220 yds away, and my CZ outshot every other pistol trying--1911s, Sig 226/40 and a USP40). The great price just made the sale a no-brainer.

[Handy]

You can spend $250 or less and get a REALLY nice Hi-Power clone by FEG.

The trigger is not too difficult to improve.
The gun is slimmer and lighter than a CZ type.
Magazines are cheap and plentiful. $11 to $20 gets you 13, 15 or 17 rounders.
The finish is really nice, deep blue. The CZ is painted.

I had a CZ type as my first gun. Nice, but heavy, I sold it. I have several REALLY nice 9mms now, yet I'm thinking about grabbing one of those bargain FEGs. Do a search for the recent FEG discussion.

CZs are nice. You would do well either way. The only other bargain gun I can think of that meets your criteria would be a Taurus 92. They have a safety for Cond. 1 carry and later models also have a decocker. Mostly like a Beretta 92 but much cheaper (less than $300 used). Alloy frame. Reasonable mags.

The first two are all steel and more durable. I bet you would never sell the FEG, it's too nice for the cash.



Hey Everybody, he wants a 9mm, SINGLE ACTION with SAFETY, for LESS than $400. More than half the pet guns listed don't match!

[duncan]

A used HS2000 or an SA XD sould fit the fit, finish, and durability parameters.

The EAA Witness is a one to look at as well. Lots of happy folks with their 10mm Witnesses so I know those guns are built like tanks.

The TZ-99 by Tressitu is a nice South African Sig P-226 clone and comes factory with a pair of 15-round mags. Nice shooter and should be around $350. They've held up at the public ranges.

The Arcus BHP clones are really liked by the BHP folks and at under $300 a deal. But I'm not to big on BHPs since they are of 1911 ilk and folks tend to want trigger jobs and other mods. So I say skip the BHP, needs too much work and the finishes other than SS tend to rust when you expose them repeatedly to the elements. FEGs are okay but the finish isn't the best.

The Beretta 92 is a good gun if you get the Brigidiar version with the heavier slide. I'd be leary has they have had a couple major upgrades to the slides in recent years. Not known for the accuracy as well.

Why not a factory refurbished Glock 17? They are available with searching for just under $400. Buy a Glock 32 in 357 sig for $399 8 months ago.

For a gun that will shoot and shoot and shoot and won't rust too easy, it's hard to beat a Glock.

Here's what I just put on layaway in 9mm for $500:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/upload/976297389-2.jpg

[duncan]

I'd be with you hansolo if you were talking SW 3913.

Probably one of their top 5 semi auto's ever made.

Saw a 3913 TSW custom shop 9mm with laser engraving last week. Almost bought it;)

[Handy]

How do you carry a 3913 in condition 1?

[Rob999]

S&W 910s are good out of the box... however, I can't carry it in condition 1. They're really TDA. But best transition gun from DA to SA...

[Handy]

So why are people recommending it for the person asking for a Cond. 1 carry gun?

[Handy]

So why are people recommending it for the person asking for a Cond. 1 carry gun?

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

CZ-75, for the reasons everyone else said.

[Poohgyrr]

I don't know how prices are where you live, but here it could be tough to find a good single action pistol for under that price. A FM (Argentina) or the MKII Hi Power clone made by FEG should work.

I wouldn't ignore any of the several good TDA's posted above. My personal preference would be the 3913/908 series, it is surprising how accurate these pistols are. No reliability problems either. The others should should also work pretty well too.
:D

[mr. e]

Gotta go with the CZ-75B. Finish is durable, accuracy is very good, and trigger is a little creepy but consistent. It's very easy to shoot well and it's relatively easy to find 15 & 16 round high cap mags. It's SA/DA setup allows you to carry cocked and locked. Also, you should be able to find one for well less than $400 on www.gunbroker.com

[PCRCCW]

What you guys are talking about are two different and very good guns. 3rd gen smiths, especially 3900's, 6900's etc are among the favorite CCW's of all time. The new ones run like clock work and I own my second DAO smitty. But CZ's have more guns in the worlds military, police depts and spec. agencies than S&W..by a great amount. But the US agencies were overrun with S&W's...Im glad both of mine have been bybacks. Both guns make Cond 1 and decock guns and will do anything you want them to. Get a PCR or a Recon...both are great examples of either maker.
Shoot well

[BevrFevr]

That other Skywalker is not princess Lea it is the Taurus Pt911.

It fits your bill too. I may have missed it but I don't see anyone else mentioning it.

Cz is the way to go but the Pt911 in stainless does fit the criterea you mention. You can even get the pimp gold accents if you want.

I am tempted to buy one with the gold just so I'll have an excuse to buy that Green Furry Fedora I've been wanting.

Good luck -Bevr

[Akurat]

I'd strongly suggest an FM (Argentine) Hi-power. Fits your specs perfectly, and is one hell of an accurate pistol. CDNN has them for $329 if im not mistaken. Military hi-caps for $19 also! 17 rounders :)

CZ would also serve you well but its a bit chunky for a 9mm and hi-caps are ~$45

[Dave Markowitz]

Get a High Power and all other 9s will seem inferior. :)

[arinvolvo]

One word...Steyr...

The steyr M9 shoots like a dream...can be found for 340 NIB....recoils like a pellet gun....and is constructed better than a Glock IMHO...

Seriously, buy one, shoot it, and if you dont like it, sell it....but you HAVE to shoot one....

[arinvolvo]

actually, you may want to desregard that last post...I didnt notice your stipulations about carry conditions.

[ojibweindian]

Of the pistols you have listed, the CZ-75 would be my first choice. You could get a FEG Hi-Power clone for under $300, and our fellow THR members who own one swear by them.

The Ruger P95, memntioned by denfoote, is also an excellent choice. I owned one until I traded it for the CZ (the CZ balanced better for me).

[NoBite]

Thanks objibweindian (absolutely the funniest handle I've seen) and everyone else who replied,

I appreciate all the feedback. The neatest thing is seeing how passionate folks are about their choices. That's a good thing! I really think there are lots of good choices out there. I have found a dealer within a couple hours of me that stocks nearly all the CZ models. Talked to them on the phone and will be making a trip over there one Saturday. Unless I see something that really disappoints, my choice is going to be a CZ75B.
My hope is that I meet some of you at a range someday so we can exchange guns for a few rounds and experience each other's joy.

[greg531mi]

Try to find a nice Star Model 30. A little on the heavy side, all steel, great single and double trigger pull, and built for a couple of lifetimes of use. Magazine's are hard to come by, but they did come with 2, and they do have 15 rounds, so you don't need too many more...

[ojibweindian]

NoBite.

You have chosen wisely!:D

[Pilot]

CZ. Great choice as stated!

When you get a few more dollars, check out the Browning Hi Power. The clones are good too, FEG, FM, Arcus.

[Poohgyrr]

Dittos on the CZ, and on getting a Hi Power (goodest full size 9x19 ever made) :D

[Akurat]

Greg's post reminds me...you might also try looking for a Star FireStar Plus. They are somewhat compact and SA, cock and lock capable...great for ccw. 13+1 rounds and most come with hi-caps. Best thing is they can be had for $250-300 depending on your location...inexpensive but definitley not a 'cheap' gun. Hit this link to see some:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/searches/PkWuYdjr-NwAAELcshI-1.htm

[hansolo]

forget everything...buy two Hi-Points and a couple cases of cheap 9mm ammo: you may not get pride of ownership, but you'll PO a lot of pistol-Snobs:neener:

[Kahr carrier]

Bhp.:)