Gunrunner Hearings Today at 1:00 Eastern - Streamed Live


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Bartholomew Roberts
June 13, 2011, 11:39 AM
The House Oversight Committee investigating the "Fast and Furious" and Project Gunrunner escapades of the ATF will be streaming those hearings live on the Internet at:
http://oversight.house.gov/

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cbrgator
June 13, 2011, 04:50 PM
Did anything come of the hearing?

Dave Workman
June 13, 2011, 04:58 PM
Oh, yes. Issa laid the groundwork for contempt proceedings, and getting at the truth about Gunrunner.

BREAKING: 1st Gunrunner hearing offers no surprises

Monday’s opening session in what will likely become a series of hearings on Project Gunrunner and Operation Fast and Furious before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform demonstrated that Chairman Darrell Issa is laying a strategy to hold people accountable for an operation that sent thousands of guns illegally to Mexico.


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/breaking-1st-gunrunner-hearing-goes-according-to-plan

N003k
June 13, 2011, 09:52 PM
Basically, the hearing today was whether or not congress had the power to do things such as compel testimony, issue subpoenas, etc, etc. The resounding answer seemed to be yes.

cbrgator
June 13, 2011, 10:00 PM
Any word on when Congress might actually compel testimony or issue subpoenas?

publius
June 14, 2011, 05:45 AM
Did anything come of the hearing?

I think Elijah Cummings learned Brian Terry's name.

publius
June 14, 2011, 08:14 AM
Hearings homepage (http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1334%3A6-13-11-qobstruction-of-justice-does-the-justice-department-have-to-respond-to-a-lawfully-issued-and-valid-congressional-subpoenaq&catid=12&Itemid=1)

Hearings video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1wKawb6JI

CoRoMo
June 14, 2011, 01:23 PM
I still have not really heard anything in the media about this "scandal", since the first few stories, all those months ago. Admittedly, I'm not sniffing around for this story, just going about life as I always have. I did hear today that, a Dem congress critter is demanding the reimplementation of the AWB because all the guns in Mexico's drug cartel problem come from Texas... as it was reported. Not a mention of Gunrunner though.

Bartholomew Roberts
June 14, 2011, 02:12 PM
Yes, there has been a lot of "U.S. guns in Mexico" stories lately. I can only guess that the ATF is pushing that story as hard as it can to draw attention away from the Gunrunner hearings, though how you can talk about guns in Mexico and ignore the massive scandal related to it baffles me. I think that may end up backfiring on ATF.

Especially when you get down to the actual numbers of those firearms. IIRC, the actual number of firearms traced to U.S. FFLs was 7,900. Now we find out that at least 2,000 firearms were sold at the direction of ATF just in the single Fast and Furious operation out of Phoenix. We already know that Carter's Country in Houston is claiming the ATF instructed them to sell firearms to known traffickers, so we've got a pretty good clue that the practice wasn't limited to the Phoenix office.

Since around 1,800 of the Fast and Furious guns are still missing, it is hard to get a good picture of just how much the ATF contributed to this problem; but looking at the numbers, it looks like ATF played a substantial role in any problem that does exist.

ATBackPackin
June 14, 2011, 02:20 PM
Yes, there has been a lot of "U.S. guns in Mexico" stories lately. I can only guess that the ATF is pushing that story as hard as it can to draw attention away from the Gunrunner hearings, though how you can talk about guns in Mexico and ignore the massive scandal related to it baffles me. I think that may end up backfiring on ATF.


Unfortunately I believe that those whom are not gun people or believers of the 2nd Amendment will buy these stories hook, line, and sinker. Either because they want to believe them or out of sheer ignorance. I hope I am wrong.

Shawn

Bartholomew Roberts
June 15, 2011, 09:21 AM
OK, Monday was on the legalities of Congress's request for documents from DoJ. Today is going to be the main show. There will be the members of Brian Terry's family testifyting. Three cooperating ATF agents will testify. And finally, Ronald Welch ("the Agency did not allow guns into Mexico") will follow it all up.

Colonel
June 15, 2011, 12:31 PM
"These guns don't just end up in Mexico ... they end up coming back here to the United States!"
– Elijah Cummings

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m311/activ8beeber/Casablanca_Renault-SHOCKED.jpg

Wait ... isn't that where they came from in the first place, with ATF's knowledge, approval and active assistance?

Bartholomew Roberts
June 15, 2011, 02:12 PM
Can you believe Welch's mealy-mouthed parsing? Well, the straw purchasers didn't personally take the weapons into Mexico ergo my statement wasn't a lie. I also like the contention that despite Fast & Furious weapons being recovered at over 150 homicide/shooting scenes, the program is not responsible for those murders.

If I was a criminal defense attorney defending a straw purchaser, I wonder if I could use that same defense in front of Mr. Welch?

armoredman
June 15, 2011, 03:29 PM
I couldn't watch it all - the program kept stalling, however I did get to see rep Issa's snap at Welch, "How DARE you come in here and tell us you are co-operating!" All while waving papers that were so heavily redacted that they were solid black.

Dave Workman
June 15, 2011, 05:34 PM
Fast & Furious Explodes: Issa calls operation ‘felony stupid’

The chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform today called “Operation Fast and Furious” an effort that was “felony stupid” and he promised that those responsible would be held accountable.


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/fast-furious-explodes-issa-calls-operation-felony-stupid

Strykervet
June 15, 2011, 06:58 PM
I still have not really heard anything in the media about this "scandal", since the first few stories, all those months ago. Admittedly, I'm not sniffing around for this story, just going about life as I always have. I did hear today that, a Dem congress critter is demanding the reimplementation of the AWB because all the guns in Mexico's drug cartel problem come from Texas... as it was reported. Not a mention of Gunrunner though.
Same here. I heard this parroted yesterday, that because all the weapons were entering Mexico from the US, then they should be illegal here too. No mention of the mighty patriotic justice league heroes that facilitating it though.

Dave Workman
June 15, 2011, 09:39 PM
Gunrunner: ATF Director Melson ‘very much in the weeds’

Kenneth Melson, the acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was “very much in the weeds” on the way his subordinates conducted Operation Fast and Furious, to the point that he allegedly could watch suspected illegal gun transactions on a live feed to his office.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/gunrunner-atf-director-melson-very-much-the-weeds

Dave Workman
June 16, 2011, 11:26 AM
Fast? No. Furious? Definitely. Grassley’s statement paves way for ATF overhaul

Iowa Senator Charles Grassley is widely known for his devotion to detail and holding government accountable, and his opening remarks at yesterday’s blockbuster hearing on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ Operation Fast and Furious reinforced his reputation, and perhaps laid the groundwork for an overhaul of the embattled agency.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/fast-no-furious-definitely-grassley-s-statement-paves-way-for-atf-overhaul

Colonel
June 16, 2011, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by CoRoMo
I still have not really heard anything in the media about this "scandal"

If you go to the Washington Post's website and search for stories mentioning "ATF," all you'll see is more cr@p about how the U.S. is arming Mexican drug cartels.

No mention whatsoever of the Issa ATF Gunrunner hearings.

Isn't the Washington Post rumored to at least have a bureau in the nation's capital?

Surely they should have at least heard about this? http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/eek7.gif

In 1973 we had – what? – almost three solid, straight months of hearings on Watergate, all carried live by the three networks every day.

Here we've got people being killed as a result of the government's malfeasance ... and not one peep.

CoRoMo
June 16, 2011, 04:35 PM
...laid the groundwork for an overhaul of the embattled agency.
Why do I get the feeling that, if our current DC powers were to "overhaul" the ATF, the bureau would still come out the other end with a much larger budget to boot? Sure, they might get a straight and narrow, hard line, new set of rules to follow, but hey, they'll need to double their budget in order to implement this new policy, right?

I can't imagine that their budget will be cut and/or their regulative authority restricted. No, that's unimaginable IMO. I'd like to hear what the most we can practically hope for here is, but all I can imagine is that a few individuals will be removed from the bureau. And that's it. Maybe, just maybe they will be given a small set of new rules to follow. Something like, "don't do this again", or "next time, these operations need to be run through Grassley's committee" or "the Office of Homeland Security has to okay all future ATF operations". :rolleyes: Sort of like "federalizing" airport security; yeah, what an improvement that was.

Again though, all government agencies who claim to be as underfunded, always need their budget overhauled (doubled) if DC really expects them to be able to follow any new rules. :banghead:

Call me cynical. :cuss:

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