Taurus Judge any good for self defense against Grizzly Bears?


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Mr. T
June 14, 2011, 02:41 AM
Hey anyone out there have an opinion on whether a Taurus Judge would be adequate defense against grizzly bears? My father-in-law is going hiking out in Yellow Stone and was wondering if his revolver would be adequate for bear defense versus having to go buy another pistol. I told him that he would probably be better off buying a new .44 mag or bigger. I'm just looking for some other opinions.

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Mr. T
June 14, 2011, 03:07 AM
Oh I forgot to mention that my brother-in-law will be going with him and will be carrying his M&P in .45 ACP. I'm not sure that either gun will be adequate for bear defense.

ArchAngelCD
June 14, 2011, 03:31 AM
IMO the velocity from a 410 slug from such a short barrel revolver will not provide adequate penetration. I don't think a .45 Colt round will do much better but it might. As you probably know a shotgun or levergun will probably be a much better choice because Grizzlies are a tough breed.

BTW, are you even allowed to carry a gun in Yellow Stone? I would check for sure before you go just so you know where you stand.

(I'm betting this thread goes at least 6 pages and you get opinions ranging from a .357 Magnum all the way up to a S&W 500 with a dozen rifles thrown in for good measure. Break out the popcorn because these bear threads always get crazy.)

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 03:48 AM
First question I have is do you like your BIL or FIL?
Yeah it should be fine.
Make sure he shows it to the Rangers they're all gun guys they dig that stuff.
It shouldn't make much difference what he uses for shells either.:)







He will either be arrested or making bear turds by sundown.

colt1911fan
June 14, 2011, 04:08 AM
@RugerMcMarlin I thought the same thing but i remembered hearing about a new law that lets people carry in national parks so I googled it, http://www.yellowstoneinsider.com/20100219527/news/articles/nps-clarifies-yellowstone-gun-rules-you-can-pack-but-you-cant-shoot.php so basically your allowed to carry but not allowed to shoot if that makes any sense :confused:

THplanes
June 14, 2011, 04:20 AM
First question I have is do you like your BIL or FIL?
Yeah it should be fine.
Make sure he shows it to the Rangers they're all gun guys they dig that stuff.
It shouldn't make much difference what he uses for shells either.:)


I have to disagree, buckshot would be the best choice. They leave more wounds that might get infected and end said bruins life. You however will be bear poo before the bear is worm poo.

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 04:21 AM
Carry it, but don't shoot it?

Well don't that give you a warm fuzzy feelin, a mildly pissed off, 1200lb warm fuzzy feelin.

Guess it'll be the second choice then;)

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 04:23 AM
MrT i'm sorry were havin a little fun with it. See there have been some truly rabid coversations about what the Taurus Judge is good for.

When you asked I thought you might be pulling our leg.
On the chance you aren't No bad idea. dont do it. Un less like I said, maybe you dont like them. ..Then?... Eh.

Shadow 7D
June 14, 2011, 05:43 AM
MR.T
quite frankly the er. shot pistols aren't well regarded,
see there are other guns that do SO much better

Secondly
HAND GUNS ARE A PISS POOR CHOICE FOR DEFENSE AGAINST BEARS
let me say this again, handguns are QUITE OFTEN WORSE THAN NOTHING when it comes to bears

knowledge, understanding and proper woods craft will get you MUCH further than a gun in NOT being eaten.

NOW that said
might I suggest some good ol bear spray, see it works, and works well, and when your done, the FEDERAL AGENTS (of the wildlife kind) aren't crawling in and out your orifices find a way to send you to the Pokey so Bubba, your new 'boyfriend' can do the same...

PabloJ
June 14, 2011, 07:51 AM
The .45Colt would be suitable with Georgia Amrs 320gr or 330gr? hard cast lead at about 1300fps. The side of black box had warning about what guns it was suitable for one was TC Contender the other was the beast of a Ruger line. The only affordable revolver I would shoot that in is the "Super" Ruger.

oldfool
June 14, 2011, 07:51 AM
nope
there ain't no watermelon patch in Yellowstone, last I heard
(we presume he was planning on feeding the bears...watermelon)

Sam1911
June 14, 2011, 08:34 AM
National Park gun laws are now the same as the laws in effect in the state in which the park is located. (Yellowstone is in MT, WY, and ID.)

Serious heavy-duty "Ruger-Only" .45 Colts will be much more powerful than any common .410 shot shell or slug. Not sure if the Taurus can really handle them, and I'd want to have practiced -- a LOT -- with that gun to make sure I could hit the really small "off switch" on a charging bear with one before I trusted my life to it.

If I was going, I'd certainly have a firearm with me. But also have him look into bear spray and study up on the recommendations of the NPS on avoiding bear encounters.

RightCoastBiased
June 14, 2011, 08:54 AM
How about something chambered in .454 casull? That would upset a bear for sure.

For the one carrying the M&P in .45, I wonder if hollow points would be a bad idea. Seems as if they would not get enough penetration. Seems some +P FMJ rounds would be more suitable.

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 08:56 AM
good ol hard ball

hardluk1
June 14, 2011, 09:48 AM
Bear spray. Chances are If a bear wants to chew on you a bit you will never see him comeing untill its to late. If you see a grizz then grab you spray first.

rcmodel
June 14, 2011, 01:48 PM
heavy-duty "Ruger-Only" .45 Colts will be much more powerful than any common .410 shot shell or slug. Not sure if the Taurus can really handle them,It most certainly cannot!
Don't even think about trying it.

The Judge as a bear defense gun?
It will work just fine.

All you need to do is shoot your father-in-law in the leg with it.
Then you can easily out-run him!

rc

jleyring
June 14, 2011, 01:56 PM
45 Colt will be plenty. When walking through bear country like that just be loud and give the bear plenty of warning and you shouldnt have problems. They usually charge because you sneak up on them and they become startled. Have a great time there in Yellowstone. I go to school just a short distance from there it is beautiful country.

twomack2010
June 14, 2011, 01:56 PM
I think it depends on how close you want to get to the bear. Lol.

There was a story in an Alaska newspaper where a bear broke through a door pushing its' head into a lady's kitchen. She grabbed a .22 revolver, stuck the barrel in the bear's ear, and fired. One shot killed the bear.

As you already know a bear carries a tremendous amount of bone in its' skull. Make the bear very tough to kill with head shots. The bear's body is large, covered in tough hide, and full of large bones. So, you have a choice: convince the bear to allow you to place a pistol in its' ear; or make sure you have far more firepower than a 45 LC.

Sam1911
June 14, 2011, 01:57 PM
All you need to do is shoot your father-in-law in the leg with it.


Hee hee. Yes. But I think in the original post, T. was saying that his father-in-law was going hiking, not him AND his father-in-law.

Which leaves us with that age-old question, "If Mr. T ain't there, who's going to shoot your father-in-law in the leg when the bear comes?" I think that's the title of a country song.

1911Tuner
June 14, 2011, 01:58 PM
You can use a Judge against Griz with the following modifications.

Use a bench grinder to remove the front and rear sights. Use a belt sander to "melt" any sharp corners. Polish well.

This is done so that when you shoot the bear with it...and he takes it away from you sticks it where sun don't shine...it won't be quite as hard to take.

Be well.

Onward Allusion
June 14, 2011, 02:14 PM
Mr. T (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=75900)
Taurus Judge any good for self defense against Grizzly Bears?

Ahem, reminds me of a post on carrying a 22LR for bear when hiking with others. ;)

Bear Spray!

Dr_B
June 14, 2011, 02:34 PM
Wear a bell somewhere on you so that you make noise when you walk. Or make noise and talk as you go. The folk wisdom around here in North Idaho is that a bear would rather not have anything to do with you. So unless you sneak up on it and surprise it, you have little chance of being attacked. When I head out in the mountains for whatever reason (e.g., picking huckleberries), I go with someone else and I take a .357 revolver and a 12-gauge with slugs. But I also make noise.

rcmodel
June 14, 2011, 02:38 PM
Reminds me of that old joke about how you can tell black bear scat from grizzly bear scat?

The grizzly bear scat has little bells in it!

rc

1911Tuner
June 14, 2011, 02:51 PM
Quote:

>The grizzly bear scat has little bells in it!<

And has the faint scent of cayenne pepper...

CMC
June 14, 2011, 02:57 PM
If that was the only handgun I would load it with Corbon +p 300 gr jacketed flat point, that is what what I use on mine.

Gord
June 14, 2011, 03:01 PM
Can we get a sticky on the first (so far as I know) combination Taurus Judge AND What Gun for Bear thread ever to, err, grace THR? This is truly a momentous occasion.

Sam Cade
June 14, 2011, 03:02 PM
Ok, I figured it out. You carry Bear Spray AND the Judge loaded with birdshot..

When the bear charges you have a few seconds to:

1.Quick Draw the Judge
2.Quick Draw the Bear Spray
3.Throw the Bear Spray at the Bear
4.Shoot the flying can of Bear Spray

This should discombobulate the bear long enough for you to find a suitable inlaw to leg shoot.

Mr.454
June 14, 2011, 03:09 PM
+1 To bear bells and bear spray. If you took a Judge you could throw it at a bear, same story for the .45. Neither of those guns will have the penetration to do anything, unless your REALLY lucky. Bear mace however does work, and bells keep you from surprising any little beasties.

rcmodel
June 14, 2011, 03:15 PM
Corbon +p 300 gr jacketed flat pointThis is a Judge we are talking about here.

It is not +P rated, and would probably come apart if you fired that load in it.

Maybe you could talk the bear into shooting it at you and kill him with the shrapnel!

rc

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 03:28 PM
Yeah, the bell idea is good then we gotta fish you back out we only have to check the bear thats tinkling. tinkling? Yeah bear tinkling. thats funny all by itself.


The other deal goes :If a T falls in the forest and no ones there can ya hear the hollerin from the truck:D


RCs right too, the judge isn't +P rated, I think it got to like -J maybe.

CMC
June 14, 2011, 03:48 PM
"It is not +P rated, and would probably come apart if you fired that load in it"

Really I killed a hog and a deer with that load on my Judge.
It is not like I am going to fire thousands of round of plus p thru it.
That would wear on any handgun +p rated or not.

KodiakBeer
June 14, 2011, 03:58 PM
A bears brain is the size of a softball. Have somebody throw a softball at you, at 40 mph from 20 yards away, skipping along the ground the way a bears head moves when it's bounding. Draw your Judge and shoot.

+1 if you hit the softball.
-1 if you miss the softball.
-10 if you shoot the guy who threw the softball.

gunsablazin
June 14, 2011, 04:43 PM
+1, that's funny.

To the OP bells and bear spray, and have fun, the chances of being bothered by a bear are very slim.

GEM
June 14, 2011, 06:14 PM
Maybe you can get the bear to hold a watermelon on its head, like the Judge commercials. Exploding the watermelon might distract the bear.

There was a show on Discovery (or similar channel) where off Norway, a group of tourists were taken to a bear inhabited island to view them. A bear decided to annoy them. The captain of the boat engaged the bear with a 22 LR revolver. The bear ate him.

Now, it was mentioned that the Norwegian police or forest rangers - whatever, carry Glock 20s with the hunting barrel and some special load for bears. However, it is a backup for the long arms.

cougar1717
June 14, 2011, 06:16 PM
+1 for the totally uncool, yet effective option of handing your FIL a can of bear spray instead of a gun - at least it's not a whistle!

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 06:17 PM
Bear Guns start at 3006 220 RN and go up from there. IMO

aryfrosty
June 14, 2011, 06:24 PM
You can use a Judge against Griz with the following modifications.

Use a bench grinder to remove the front and rear sights. Use a belt sander to "melt" any sharp corners. Polish well.

This is done so that when you shoot the bear with it...and he takes it away from you sticks it where sun don't shine...it won't be quite as hard to take.

Be well.
Tuner, Don't forget to exchange the grips for chocolate ones in case the bear puts it in from the other end.....hee hee.

FoMoGo
June 14, 2011, 06:27 PM
Personally... If I think I may encounter a bear...
I will have my Marlin 1895 STP loaded with some hot and heavy hard cast.
I have seen a BLACK bear walk thru bear mace to try and get to the holder of the can.
Ummm... fudge a bunch of using it on a brown or griz.
Bells are a decent idea... as are the belly dancer cymbals on their fingers.


Jim

Walkalong
June 14, 2011, 08:04 PM
All you need to do is shoot your father-in-law in the leg with it. You know the old saying, you don't have to outrun the bear, you only have to outrun the other fellow.

I like Tuners advise as well. :)

RugerMcMarlin
June 14, 2011, 08:21 PM
I think the bear is probably gonna have to be trying to get to third base, before I could talk myself into shooting a 300 grain Corbon anything.

PabloJ
June 14, 2011, 08:38 PM
Hey anyone out there have an opinion on whether a Taurus Judge would be adequate defense against grizzly bears? My father-in-law is going hiking out in Yellow Stone and was wondering if his revolver would be adequate for bear defense versus having to go buy another pistol. I told him that he would probably be better off buying a new .44 mag or bigger. I'm just looking for some other opinions.
Isn't the Judge designed to nix serpents from seat of Farmal or John Deere?:scrutiny:Wounded Griz is going to be much more dangerous.:uhoh: The only thing worse on North American continent would be wounded Polar Teddy.:eek:

460Kodiak
June 14, 2011, 08:39 PM
Your best defense is situational awareness. The bears don't want anything to do with you. I was there two years ago and accidentally found myself within 30' of a grizzly (long story). It was content to ignore me and eat grass. I tell you what though, if you have never been that close to a grizzly, it is a life changing experience. When you realize it can get to you in two bounds, and that there is no way you would get a gun out and aim in that time, you realize avoidance is the best idea. I was unarmed at the time. Since then I have purchased a S&W 460 Magnum with a 5" bbl, which I will always carry in griz land now.

A judge or a .45 acp? No way in hell would I think either is enough gun after having my close encounter. JHP's? Nope. I'd go with hard cast or FMJ's at the least.

I think the best bet is for him to avoid them if he doesn't want to spend the money on a new gun. I'd sooner carry bear spray than a Judge. It would be more reliable and effective.

1911Tuner
June 14, 2011, 08:53 PM
Shootin' a Griz with a pistol is a little like kickin' Mike Tyson on the shin. You ain't hurt him much...but you've got his attention.

BLB68
June 15, 2011, 05:33 AM
I have seen a BLACK bear walk thru bear mace to try and get to the holder of the can.
Ummm... fudge a bunch of using it on a brown or griz.

Jim

Bear Spray's statistically less likely to stop a black than a brown/grizzly, so that's not surprising.

Spray backed up by heavy projectiles is always a good plan, though.

Edit: Here's an article that gives the statistics of the study I read way back on this:

http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html

Prosser
June 15, 2011, 06:11 AM
Taurus Judge:
Yes: Clearly you need to smear the gun with salmon oil. When the bear comes sniffing around, throw gun into the bushes, and run like hell.:evil:

Hopefully, unless you've smoothed the gun too much as 1911Tuner suggests, the offensive bear will have indigestion after he eats the gun, and, he'll be unable to bother you the rest of your stay...:D

Seriously: As John Linebaugh once wrote me about .45 ACP, get a REAL gun, in a REAL caliber....;)

gunguy56
June 15, 2011, 06:33 PM
If one does his research about bears killing humans, you will find that the black bear kills more people in North America than any other species..the black bear is in much greater numbers and distribution than the big bears..also most killer black bears are younger male bears looking for their own territory and have learned through the generations not to be overly-afraid of humans..that's why the National Park Service forbids humans feediing the bears as the black bear has learned that humans are connected with food..whether it is garbage or coolers in a campsite..as others have suggested-make noise and carry bear spray when in the bears' territory..you are not the top entity in the food chain!!

RugerMcMarlin
June 15, 2011, 08:18 PM
I don't think I'm keeping up again, they still got black bears at Yellowstone don't they?






And the guy whose job it was to test effectiveness of bear repelent and keep statistics? What kind a shoes does HE wear?

wleoff
June 15, 2011, 08:20 PM
I've got some 45 Colt Buffalo Bore 325 grain rounds that do 1325 fps. I shoot them in a Redhawk. I guess if a bear charged me, I'd be willing to try one in a Judge.

http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp244/wleoff/BufBore.jpg

MCgunner
June 15, 2011, 09:45 PM
Bear spray. Chances are If a bear wants to chew on you a bit you will never see him comeing untill its to late. If you see a grizz then grab you spray first.

Seriously, in a National Park, it's better to get ate by the bear than arrested for shooting one. At least you won't have to spend 20 years in a 4x8 cell with Bubba. I'd just carry spray for bear, a good concealed weapon for self defense against people, which you will get off for shooting if you're in the right, unlike the bear. And, well, human meat always goes better with a little pepper seasoning. Think of the bear, afterall.

Strykervet
June 15, 2011, 10:08 PM
Bear spray. I've seen it used on them before, they HATE that stuff. Works better on them than it does people, by FAR.

By the time you shoot one up close with a handgun, you're a gonner. They don't drop right away, even with good hits, and the pain doesn't bother them. Unless it is in their nose, which is several times more sensitive than a dog's. Be akin to someone using a flamethrower on your privates, only if they were on your face.

If going into the back country, learn about how to camp there. They will only come after the food, so keep that away. Preferably tied up hanging from a limb. Stay away from them, especially the cubs. Enjoy them from a distance, they are magnificent creatures.

More likely to see a black bear anyway. Going the other way. More likely to get molested by a human than a bear. When I carry in Rainier, I carry for people, not bears. In which case the .45 is fine. Save the Judge and use it as a paperweight next to your computer, that is what it was made for.

Now if I HAD to carry for bears, if I lived in Alaska or was visiting Kodiak country, I'd carry a 12ga. with slugs. 3" magnums. Or a very large bolt rifle. At the point you carry for bears, it becomes a real chore as who wants to spend their vacation walking point with a ten pound weapon?

Prosser
June 16, 2011, 06:26 AM
http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=712&category=Revolver&breadcrumbseries=&search=Judge

a 26 0z 45 Colt? I guess with LFN bullets, at maybe 260 grains, and 1100 fps
would perhaps with really lucky shot placement do in a bruin.

I did get to watch my gunsmith pull three of these apart for a retailer:

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=199&category=Revolver&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=41

Two worked, and he did a quick trigger job, checking specs. The third was so far out of spec the cylinder didn't rotate(all three were new in box, being checked for retail, because the retailer didn't want to sell something that hurt his reputation).
Took him over an hour to get the stupid gun to work.

My overall impression was the quality of the components and gun design merited a price of about 150 dollars retail.

That said, I think the gun has great potential against grizzly. First soak the gun over night in salmon oil, or anything else grizzly are known to love to eat. At the first site of a bear that's hungry, throw the gun as far as you can(and, at 29 oz, that should be pretty far, compared to a REAL gun) and, that should distract the bear long enough for you to escape. Also, considering how soft and junky the material is in this gun, I don't even think he'd chip a tooth consuming it, though it might give his stomach a slight bit of indigestion, and he might come looking for you after it passed.:D

Seriously: Get a REAL gun.

Madcap_Magician
June 17, 2011, 11:53 AM
In a word: No.

ForumSurfer
June 17, 2011, 12:08 PM
The Judge as a bear defense gun?
It will work just fine.

All you need to do is shoot your father-in-law in the leg with it.
Then you can easily out-run him!

I think that one about sums it up. :)

CMC
June 17, 2011, 12:20 PM
Grizzly bear can be killed with a 45 ACP
Read on http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/7750458/article-Grizzly-bear-shot--killed-in-Denali-National-Park?instance=home_most_popular5


The incident was first reported Saturday in Daily News-Miner columnist Kris Capps' blog. Fister confirmed Sunday that two backpackers came across signs of the bear while hiking along the edge of Tattler Creek. The lead hiker then drew a .45-caliber pistol and, when the bear emerged and charged the second hiker, a woman, fired roughly nine shots in its direction.



Read more: Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - Grizzly bear shot killed in Denali National Park

RugerMcMarlin
June 17, 2011, 02:40 PM
Well, they escaped a Bear Mauling, now comes violation by piss ant bureaucrats.

Hardball works, hope his lawyer does. Legal to carry/illegal to discharge, someone should be slapped soundly. It takes 3 or 4 generations to breed that kind of stupid.

And cause I'm that kind of guy, Told ya so! post 14

Prosser
June 17, 2011, 03:11 PM
I kind of wonder about that.

News reports are always wrong. That said, why, after nearly 90 years did these folks have to shoot the bear? Probably because prior, alternative methods of bear protection were used, like pepper spray, and being smart.

Cosmoline
June 17, 2011, 03:15 PM
That part of Denali isn't wild at all. It's more akin to one of those open zoos you drive around in. The bears are badly habituated and will get a lot closer to people than they do elsewhere. NPS policy is to blame for this.

vellocet
June 17, 2011, 03:26 PM
This guy did some penetration tests with a Judge using the longest barrel and cylinder available and they were not very impressive with slug or shot.

dagger dog
June 17, 2011, 05:56 PM
I think the Judge and bear spray is a perfect combo, spray yourself , that way you can't see what's about to happen:what:

Then use the Judge for the coup de gras.:D

Bear and handgun threads you gotta love 'em!

Mr. T
June 18, 2011, 12:16 AM
Wow - I couldn't believe the response on this one! I personally told them both that they needed heavier weapons to effectively deter and or defend themselves from Grizzly Bears. I recommended shotguns for anything larger than a .44 Mag. I hope that they can both get new guns before they go and get to the range to practice with them. I appreciate all the comments even the "wise-acre" ones. I will not be making the trip with them other wise I would be carrying a shotgun with slugs. My brother-in-law has been out west hiking many times and is pretty knowledgable regarding bear avoidance techniques. They will also be carrying bear spray and hornet spray; I don't really trust either of the spray options, but I do feel pretty confident in my B-I-L's ability to avoid the bears. Again thank you for all of the input.

IMTHDUKE
June 18, 2011, 02:26 PM
Taurus Judge any good for self defense against Grizzly Bears?

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

Meeteetse
June 18, 2011, 06:25 PM
Let me put it this way. I grew up in Griz country, hunting, fishing and generally enjoying the great outdoors and I would not feel comfortable with the Judge even with heavy .45 Colt loads. I don't think the gun can handle them, but if that is what you have, go for it. I would practice with some heavy .45 Colt loads to make sure the gun functions well with them, and you know how and where they shoot.

I have carried a Blackhawk .45 in bear country with 300 gr. loads and a SBH .44 mag, both with solids, but I also carry Bear spray. Bear spray works on a lot of critters, both 2 and 4 legged, and anyone in the family can use it. Might not be true with the gun.

Nushif
June 18, 2011, 07:57 PM
I'll chime in here with the chorus saying that handguns are generally weak against bears. 8)
I wouldn't feel unsafe with a nice and hot .45 Colt .... But I'd rather have ... 30 .50 belts when dealing with a bear. 8)

Apple a Day
June 18, 2011, 08:14 PM
Well, if you ever wondered what thread starter questioon would get you the most smug, sarky, a-hole responses I think you have your answer.
Seriously, people. Hi Road?

sixgunner455
June 18, 2011, 10:15 PM
Well, those Taurus Judge revolvers are pretty popular, it seems, so it was inevitable that someone would ask about using one for grizzly protection.

I have, at last count, 3 friends and 2 more acquaintances who own at least one each, including people who should know better. One was asking me for advice on getting a new gun, and then announced at a later date that he'd bought one of these abominations.

It was hard to be polite, honestly. Hard not to say, "oh, you just bought the most overhyped revolver ever, dude. Congrats!" But I was polite. I am, after all, a High Roader. :D

I have no real problem with people buying them, actually, because they are getting out there and spending money in our economy, for one, and they are exercising their 2nd amendment rights, when they otherwise might not do so.

Says something about how popular they are when it is almost impossible to find .45 Colt to shoot in our single actions. :D

OP, I am glad that you recommended something more suitable to the problem to your relatives. Bear spray, avoidance, and a .44 magnum would be my choices.

RETG
June 18, 2011, 10:55 PM
basically your allowed to carry but not allowed to shoot if that makes any sense
Actually, that is like almost any city, town, etc., I have ever heard of. You can carry but you cannot shoot, unless it is in self-defense or at a range.
What the national park is doing is stressing the point that they are not the BLM which permits shooting on the Federal lands they manage. If they didn’t note that, then I can see people setting up targets in Arches, Zion, Bryce, Canyonlands National parks or other NPs and having shooting practice. This happens on BLM land and it is ok there.
So, yes it makes great sense.

Back to the original question, you can carry into Yellowstone so long as your permit is recognized by the state you are in, and as someone else mentioned, there are three states involved; WY, ID and MT. And, even if I consider my .44 mag, loaded with 320 gr HC Cor-Bons ok for black bears, I would not even consider it for a grizzly. For that reason, I have a .454 Rugar Alaskan. And even then, I would try the spray first to get time to exit the area as fast as possible, and the gun as a final defense.

A good bear spray does work. I know some of the Rangers up there in Yellowstone and in Glacier and they have had to use it, and it does work.

Hunt480
June 19, 2011, 01:48 PM
I have come to the defense of the Judge on several ocassions on THR but it should go without sayin that Grizz country has no place for the Judge. I would'nt take a 45 myself but as far as 45 it is obviously Ruger only loads and that would be a 454. If you gonna be in Grizz country with a handgun take the obvious choice a 500 S&W and hope you see it coming and don't miss the head shot. If Grizz wants you he's got a 50/50 shot at gettin you even with a 500 IMO...

PowerG
June 19, 2011, 11:05 PM
Go to the nearest zoo that has a large grizzly, and get up as close as they'll let you, and you'll know the answer to the question.

Prosser
June 20, 2011, 01:31 AM
Watching this video asks me WHY anyone would even think about carrying anything smaller then .475 Linebaugh, and for that matter, .458 Lott:

Timothy Tredwell's undeniable contribution to wild life filming:
Small add at the start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44supsrT9qU&feature=fvsr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pd7yTRnYzg&feature=related

There was a brown bear black bear encounter in Alaska a few folks near the beach saw. The brown bear took the black bears' head off with one paw swipe...:what:

Just for perspective:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/BEARS/60982614VOOEsm_ph.jpg

daorhgih
June 20, 2011, 02:02 AM
"heavy-duty 'Ruger-Only' .45 Colts will be much more powerful than any common .410 shot shell or slug. "Not sure if the Taurus can really handle them." It most certainly cannot! Don't even think about trying it." Are you saying that the Judge/Defender et al .410 bore/.45Colts are not safe to fire THAT particular round from, or all +p+ type loads will also break the cylinder? Can the .410/.45C cylinder accept the .454 Casull cartridge? Last: can a reloader work up a hotter .45C, say like a "+P.45C" for the Judge since the parent case for the .45C was the .454?? Thanks. EBG

SAA
June 20, 2011, 05:56 AM
From the article: "Grizzly bear shot killed in Denali National Park the first such incident within the park's original borders in decades and also the first since a February change in federal laws allowed licensed visitors to carry loaded guns in national parks...."


That said, why, after nearly 90 years did these folks have to shoot the bear? Probably because prior, alternative methods of bear protection were used, like pepper spray, and being smart.


Weeeellll, maybe. It might also be they shot because they could. Perhaps in the decades past the bears just had their way with the defenseless humans. Surprise, surprise, Smokey and Yogi! The report may be accurate, but in a deceptive way.

suemarkp
June 21, 2011, 12:12 AM
The 454 will not chamber in the Judge, nor will the 460 S&W. I would be very hesitant to shoot Ruger only loads in a judge. The factory says not +P rated. Will it blow up with a Ruger load, probably not. But it is going to batter the thing. The only advantantage this gun has for loading hot is the long cylinder. You can load to a very longer overall length which will reduce pressure, especially with a long heavy bullet.

I'd like to see the Judge chambered in 444 Marlin. Will give 44 Mag performance, has enough capacity to do what a 410 shell does, and you can still use the blue shot capsules (perhaps even two end to end) to help the pattern.

twomack2010
June 21, 2011, 01:52 PM
Interesting about the bear in Denali. Someone killed a black bear near the old home place in Georgia by crashing a car into it. :-) Something tells me as the liberals continue to move into Georgia they'll soon want 'Grizzlies' imported so I'll soon have to thickin' the trucks bumper. Lol.

I truly would not mind the grizzlies. They most likely will eat a few defenseless liberals.

daorhgih
July 8, 2011, 04:47 PM
... for some manufacturer to make a "Ruger only / +p+" cylinder for the Judge? There are already at least 2 ammo-makers stoking 3" mag .410-bores for this so-called "POS". Vaguely reminiscent of the prior "Glock Flame Wars."

Zoogster
July 8, 2011, 05:24 PM
A guy was killed in Yellowstone by a grizzly yesterday.



twomack2010 said:

Something tells me as the liberals continue to move into Georgia they'll soon want 'Grizzlies' imported so I'll soon have to thickin' the trucks bumper. Lol.

I truly would not mind the grizzlies. They most likely will eat a few defenseless liberals.


In California we need the Grizzly back! It is the primary thing on our state flag after all.
(Or is that a Russian brown bear along with a Communist red star?)
They need to reintroduce the wolf, and grizzly to their former range throughout most of the state.

Nothing leads to support of gun ownership like predators walking around that can eat you!
California would have much better gun laws, and freedom in general if such predators reminded people they need to provide for their own defense and lose the nanny state mentality.

jbr
July 8, 2011, 05:48 PM
thanks for the picture prosser - that really does put it into prespective

Keep the judge - your going to want to shoot yourself with something before the bear gets you - and .410 shot will work best since you will be shaking like a dog passing a bone

Almond27
July 8, 2011, 09:33 PM
I'll suggest a gun other than laugh and crack jokes, because I've already laughed too much. Smith and Wesson Mountain Gun in 44 magnum loaded with 300gr Keith style bullets. I would like to recommend a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 casull, but my goodness the felt recoil Oh mylanta! I know felt recoil isn't as bad in a high stress situation but I'd at least like to die knowing I at least put a couple rounds on target, because im a goner anyways lol.

rugerman
July 8, 2011, 09:40 PM
Well it beats a "bear Switch" but not by much.

Prosser
July 9, 2011, 12:03 AM
My favorite bear gun was a Ruger single shot, stainless, made in .510 Wells/.500A2. That's the .460 Weatherby case blown out, to take a .510 bullet, full length:what:

I calculated with a full house load, it would recoil at 150 ft-lbs.:eek:

It only weighed 7 pounds, and, it had an 18" barrel. It would move a 600 grain bullet at 2400 fps. Heck, why not an 800 grain bullet, maybe a hollow point, or soft nose, at 2200 fps? Anyway, you'd only get one shot, but, it would go end to end, and the bear would have a new one, and a very long, very wide wound channel.

Great thing about it would be if you missed, the hand grenade effect might scare the bear off. Anyway, you'd probably never know, since you'd be on the ground, probably knocked out.

788Ham
July 9, 2011, 01:45 AM
Ought to ask the gal who's husband just got dispatched by a Grizzly, then you be the "Judge". If thats all he's going to bother taking, as far a a defensive handgun, he'll be alright if he doesn't leave the camper.

P5 Guy
July 9, 2011, 05:00 PM
444 Marlin or something in 45-70 GOV. Lever action for faster follow up shots.
.410 shot revolver NFW

JellyJar
July 9, 2011, 06:33 PM
I haven't read all the post here and I am not going to.

To me the only way a Taurus Judge could possibly stop a grizzly bear is if you manage to throw it down its throat just before it bites you and it chokes to death!

gbran
July 9, 2011, 07:49 PM
I had a guide in AK who carried a 12ga pump. 1st shot was buckshot to get the bear' attention, followed by slugs.

Not sure I'd want to try this with a Judge.

Stainz
July 9, 2011, 08:59 PM
I bought an S&W Governor 6/13 - at least it has six rounds. And - it takes moonclipped .45 ACP's, too. I don't know about it's +P capability. At <30 oz, it bounces pretty well with defensive .410's, like the Winnie PDX (Not a bear load!!). It has a 2.5" .410 capability - not a bear protector, even around here (We have had black bear recently seen around Birmingham!). With .45 Colts - even .45 ACP's, it would do well for any 2/4 legged threat in these parts. Brown bear? My 4" 629 with 300gr lead as a minimum. A .500 Magnum would be better!

Stainz

kayak-man
July 9, 2011, 11:38 PM
At the risk of sounding like a parrot, I'm going to say "no" to the judge. I think they are pretty cool guns, but only for a range toy, maybe shooting snakes.

I'd listen to Shadow_7D, his advice on the bear threads tends to be pretty good.

If I was going to carry a gun specifically for bears in Yellowstone, I'd prefer an M14, but I have a feeling that won't work very well for your purposes :evil: Taurus and ruger make some .44 Magnums that might work for ya.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

Apex29
July 9, 2011, 11:40 PM
It's good only if you're with someone. Shoot that person in the foot and then run like the wind.

FIVETWOSEVEN
July 10, 2011, 12:14 AM
Wonder when someone is gonna post about taking a Judge to Africa for dangerous game hunting.

gdesloge
July 10, 2011, 01:03 AM
John McPhee wrote a book, "Coming Into The Country", about Alaska, its residents, natives, and the federal government's involvement there.

He recounts a story about an Alaska resident in the backcountry who chooses not to carry a gun as protection against bears, because he believes that the bears sense a more hostile intent (my awkward paraphrasing) from a human carrying a weapon.

http://www.johnmcphee.com/comingintocountry.htm

By the way, the book really gives one an appreciation for the lives of those who live in Alaska. A great read, as are all of Mr. McPhee's books.

If all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.

gd

GEM
July 10, 2011, 01:34 PM
Saw a show about bear attacks in Norway. Three women go to a park with dangerous bears. At the park entrance, you can rent a rifle (wonder why?). They refuse as they want to be one with nature. The other Norwegians look at them askance. They feel the bears will sense their karma.

As you can probably guess, two get eaten - one escapes by jumping off a cliff and being shredded by the scree at the bottom - but lives.

Another incident - tourists go in a boat to an island with bears. One gets ornery. The boat captain shoots it with a 22 revolver and gets eaten. The tourists flee and live.

Now I can't really Judge the outcomes, not being there but I Gauge there are better ways to be prepared. I'd rather be Pumped up.

gdesloge
July 10, 2011, 04:31 PM
Hi, GEM -

I do think that it is an interesting, thoughtful, and counterintuitive approach to refuse to carry a weapon because it might, in some way, provoke an incident.

By the way, the subject in the story actually lived and worked in the Alaska wilderness and was not merely a tourist who wanted to be "one" with the animals.

Although not a perfect analogue, one might consider that a person who conceal-carries and uses good judgement to withdraw from a situation rather than "engage" to be similar to how a prudent hiker/outdoorsperson might view bear encounters.

As an aside, our neighbor called us yesterday to inform us that "the bear is back." What this means is that a black bear which frequents our neighborhood in the Fall prior to hibernation has returned, albeit a bit early.

So we will secure our trash, hang the hummingbird feeder outside the yard, keep the doors closed so that he doesn't see the need to amble into our kitchen, and pay attention before we let the doggies or our 5 year-old son out into the yard to play.

I frankly am more concerned about mountain lions than black bear, but Ursus arctos horribilis is certainly a different breed than Ursus americanus.

Best -

gd

Carl N. Brown
July 10, 2011, 04:37 PM
It is my understanding that the state of Alaska does not recommend any handgun as protection against grizzly bears.

KodiakBeer
July 10, 2011, 05:47 PM
Why would anyone carry a handgun when there are bears around?

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac164/kodiakbeer/fishing.jpg

Panzercat
July 10, 2011, 07:44 PM
Everything I learned about grizzly defense, I learned from my mentor John West (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0apHTUwmL4).

FIVETWOSEVEN
July 10, 2011, 08:07 PM
They refuse as they want to be one with nature.

Two of them got their wish...

Waywatcher
July 11, 2011, 04:35 PM
Judge would be better than nothing, but I would pick a .357 magnum before it, without a doubt.

I like the shotty with slugs idea best though.

baylorattorney
July 12, 2011, 01:49 AM
A judge versus a bear? No way. Need at least 10mm or some other magnum load to knock down a bear.

CMUnderWoody
July 16, 2011, 05:52 AM
Epic doesn't begin to sum up this thread. I like that the OP kept a very open mindset and sense of humor for this one...It helps that he was asking on behalf of his in law's safety.

Since we determined from pretty much right off the bat that a Judge is no match for Big Teddy the Horrible, is there really anything that gun IS good for? Other than marketing? Carrying a gun that does one job well, is better than a gun that does multiple jobs poorly. Piss poorly in the Judges case.

I've been carrying a Ruger SRH 'Alaskan" up on our property in N. Idaho but even that is a back up to my 870mag and mostly for people not bears. Recently my Godfather bought a S&W V460, and if I HAD to shoot a bear with a pistol I would pick that bad boy. Otherwise, Mikhail and I are defending my picnic basket with 100, very rapid, FMJ's... Perfect scenario is of course the bear and I share my picnic basket and I save my bullets for something I'd rather shoot..

baylorattorney
July 16, 2011, 08:27 AM
I've had a change if heart on the judge. Now I prefer the Governor. I wouldnt take either tho against a bear.

jmresistance
July 17, 2011, 06:38 AM
"It is not +P rated, and would probably come apart if you fired that load in it"

Really I killed a hog and a deer with that load on my Judge.
It is not like I am going to fire thousands of round of plus p thru it.
That would wear on any handgun +p rated or not.
I've fired +P .45 LC and the +P .410 marked "for ATI AT-14 only!" through my Judge, just to show some S&W and Ruger guys that it could handle it. I have to admit, I was a little worried when I squeezed the trigger, but it took them both in stride. I doubt I'll do it again, but the Judge can handle it. I know, because I've actually done it.

I wonder how many of the Judge's critics own one... or have even fired one.

fletchbutt152
July 30, 2011, 04:33 AM
Not because I would carry it as my first choice for bear, but because I have one and do carry it for bear (lil' blackie that hangs around my house). Still waiting to get shipped to Alaska so I can justifiy a brace of .460s and a Marlin SBL.

MyGreenGuns
July 30, 2011, 05:28 AM
I own a Judge. I bought it to shoot at junk in the backyard. I wouldnt carry it for SD or use it for HD. If you've ever shot one, AND you've seen a living Griz, you wouldnt ask this question.

PS: To EVERYONE who suggested shooting the other hiker, did you fail to realize he was armed too? I could picture both parties shooting eachother in the leg and saying, "Thats not how I pictured this going!" :)

Reminds me of the joke with the punchline: "You're not here for the hunting are you?" (Not quite all ages or I'd just post it)

BADSBSNF81
July 30, 2011, 10:43 PM
A 10 or 12 gauge shotgun will slugs would be a better choice.

skoro
July 31, 2011, 10:01 AM
Hey anyone out there have an opinion on whether a Taurus Judge would be adequate defense against grizzly bears?

Yep, I have an opinion. That would be "no."

I'd rather have a can of bear spray, myself. Or, better yet, a bazooka. ;)

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