Backpacking/trail shotguns


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Andrew Wyatt
June 15, 2011, 01:53 AM
The last thread i started brought some questions to my mind about Backpacking/Trail shotguns, and i wanted to find out what kinds of guns people put to that use.

What configuration of gun do you use for backpacking/trail use?

Gauge?

Sighting system?

Accessories?

Ammunition?

Method of carry?


What Ranges do you expect to be engaging targets at?
What kinds of targets do you expect to engage?


Thanks in advance for your participation.

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blindhari
June 15, 2011, 02:13 AM
20 ga H&R cut to 18 1/2" barrel 34" overall, sidesaddle ammo holder, latigo braid sling, under 5lbs and camoflaged

blindhari

Youngster
June 15, 2011, 02:52 AM
My primary woods gun is a 870P 12 gauge wearing either an 18.5" rifle sight or 12.5" blade front sight barrel, a Hogue short stock and a Browning sling.

Loads are typically "hard" slugs, although I'll keep some bird and buck handy as well.

I carry it either slung on the back or in the hands ready to go.

.338-06
June 15, 2011, 03:05 AM
870 12ga 18" Black Magic slugs, sights are two beads on the rib. Unless I change to my rifled barrel. Bears bluff charge so the distance will be <25yds. I find the beads faster up close than the rifle sights. This hasn't happened to me yet, as 99 out of 100 bears will run from people. I haven't encountered 100 bears yet. :)

Oh, slung or carried. And of course, the Alaska required .44 or bigger handgun for backup.

heeler
June 15, 2011, 08:37 AM
If simplicity and weight are at the forefront for a long gun then a NEF single shot in the gauge of your choice would be hard to beat as they weigh under six pounds.
When I am camping or hiking my gun of choice is a small light handgun as it is easier to carry with you 24 hours a day.

Onmilo
June 15, 2011, 09:52 AM
I passed on a 20 guage H&R single shot with 22" modified choke smoothbore, electroless nickle finish and bead sight.
When I decided I really did need that gun and went back, it had already sold.
My recommendation if you can find one.

Pete D.
June 15, 2011, 10:31 AM
Backpacking? A Springfield Armory (made by CZ) M6 Scout O/U .22LR X .410. Ammo stores in the gun stock.
I bought the one I have a bunch of years ago. They are harder and harder to find. Aperture sight for the .22 and flip up open sight for the .410. Shoots a .410 slug right to POA at 25 yards. Easy enough to hit a two inch target at .25 yds with the .22.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory_M6_Scout (picture)
Pete

Andrew Wyatt
June 15, 2011, 11:43 AM
Just for clarification, i'm asking for what you guys use, not a reccomendation on what i should use.

I'm getting some good answers so far, but I'd like more information on what you guys think the uses a backpacking shotgun would get put to are.

thanks!

rio nueces
June 15, 2011, 12:06 PM
I'd go with a handgun, I've been hiking in the hills and you must consider weight and bulk.
But if you prefer the shotgun...some sort of take-down, single or double. I've known of people bringing pistol-grip pumps into the woods. (Legal limits)

Uses for it? Bear. Cougar. Dogs. Two-legged animals. Defensively.

For hunting small game a .22 rifle would be better. For big game a centerfire rifle would be called for.

Youngster
June 15, 2011, 12:28 PM
I carry mine for defense against animals and people { there seems to be lots of druggy types running around in the woods in my area these days}, for target shooting, and for rabbit if the opportunity arises.

I'm thinking of switching my 870 for a short barrelled Ithaca 37 however as the Ithaca will be much lighter, will be blued with wood furniture so will be much less tactical looking than my black 870, and I just like their function better.

I have a sporting length Ithaca 37 but it's just too long for a dedicated hiking gun.

oneounceload
June 15, 2011, 01:00 PM
Since this seems to be more for non-hunting scenarios, something like the Serbu Shorty would be easier to pack and carry, while providing 3 shots of whatever flavor you wanted to shoot

amd6547
June 15, 2011, 01:31 PM
I have backpacked for decades in areas populated with black bear and wolves...never felt the need to burden myself with a longarm of any kind.
I did have one of the Springfield M6's mentioned earlier...too heavy and bulky for backpack absent specific need, though I did bring it seakayaking a few times.
No, I usually pack a handgun...tried several different types over the years, but currently it is a romanian tokarev pistol...

Andrew Wyatt
June 15, 2011, 01:50 PM
This went off topic really fast.


I'm looking for answers to the questions i presented, like so.

What configuration of gun do you use for backpacking/trail use? I use a fixed stock single barrel take down.

Gauge? 20

Sighting system? ghost ring aperture sights

Accessories? sling, Butt cuff (5 rounds) choate hollow foreend w/ chamber adaptor for .22LR

Ammunition? brenneke slugs and number 8 shot in the butt cuff, number 3 buck in the chamber

Method of carry? i keep the gun broken down in a bag untill i get past the trailhead, then i keep it slung or in my hands.


What Ranges do you expect to be engaging targets at? the area where i backpack has open areas where you can see as far as 300 yards, but i expect to not have to shoot anything farther than 150 yards away.
What kinds of targets do you expect to engage? the most dangerous animals in the area are pot farmers and meth lab operators, but have seen everything from rabbits and game birds to deer and mountain lions.

Bud Tugly
June 15, 2011, 02:33 PM
Depends on what you're planning on using the gun for.

If you're looking for a gun you can stow in a backpack and use for foraging and living off the land, I've got a great option. I have a Rossi youth matched pair. It's a single buttstock with a 22" .410 and an 18" .22 barrel that can interchange. You can pack a lot of ammo since both types are relatively small and light and could easily hunt just about any type of small game.

If you're talking about protection against bears or other dangerous critters, then a lightweight 12 gauge loaded with slugs or any high-powered rifle with a sling would be my choice. In those cases it needs to be carried so it can be deployed quickly.

Onmilo
June 15, 2011, 04:28 PM
O.P. asks what we would use for backpacking then complains when the answers are given.
OK
I don't have much time to backpack and there aren't a whole lot of places to do so.
One place I can backpack AND carry a gun nearby is Sand Ridge State Forrest.
Here is where I will use the 20 guage wneh I get ahold of one.
Right now I have the same gun in .410 that I use fairly often on the farm.
Kills snakes, raccoons and skunks mostly, pest animals that prey on the chickens.
I also keep a similar but longer barrelled 12 guage stashed in an outbuilding for times I am out and see a good opportunity for taking a pheasant or a couple quali for supper.
http://fototime.com/50FF10D7DD2F01A/standard.jpg

Cosmoline
June 15, 2011, 04:48 PM
This isn't a discussion thread just a polling sample for info purposes.

What configuration of gun do you use for backpacking/trail use? Mossberg 500 with a good quality folding stock for ease of transport, not for shooting PGO.

Gauge? 12 ga

Sighting system? Slugster barrel rifle sights.

Accessories? Simple tactical light clamped to barrel.

Ammunition? Brenneke magnum hardcasts.

Method of carry? Either in hand or in a backpack scabbard.

What Ranges do you expect to be engaging targets at? 5 to 50 yards

What kinds of targets do you expect to engage? Hopefully nothing, but possible brown or black bear.

KodiakBeer
June 15, 2011, 05:01 PM
12 gauge Baikal "coach" gun. I shove it down my pack with the butt hanging over my shoulder. I have an old piece of leather in the bottom of my pack to keep the barrels from wearing through the fabric.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac164/kodiakbeer/Baikal2.jpg

Andrew Wyatt
June 15, 2011, 05:35 PM
Thanks for the assist, Cosmoline.

Nice rig, KodiakBeer!

What do you keep it stoked with?

KodiakBeer
June 15, 2011, 05:42 PM
It's stoked with some pretty standard 2 3/4 inch traditional slugs. The reason for that is that they hit right under the bead at 15 to 20 yards. All of the newer, hotter slugs I've tried shoot very high at those ranges.

amprecon
June 15, 2011, 05:48 PM
Dude, you definitely need one of these:
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/amprecon/Guns/KSG_3357web.jpg

14 rounds of confidence, if you don't want one I'm sure thinkin' about it, it definitely falls into the Mad Max gun category.
BTW its the new Kel-Tec KSG, just over two feet long total.

Andrew Wyatt
June 15, 2011, 06:55 PM
amprecon: two problems.

1. the KSG doesnt exist as a product.

2. its completely off topic.

MCgunner
June 15, 2011, 09:07 PM
I rather like my Remington Spartan coach gun in 20 gauge, interchangable chokes, breaks down and stows in my back pack. Ammo is effective, yet smaller and lighter than 12. Shoots well with foster slugs to 50 yards. Patterns fantastic. I bought this gun to hunt doves with, but it's multi-use, and unlike Alaskans, I don't have to worry about bears, so 20 is enough and it sure is nice on my shoulder. I really do like it as a camp shotgun, too. I've never backpacked with a shotgun, though, but I put it in my backpack on dove hunting trips where I take the motorcycle, strap it to the back of the bike and go, out of sight at gas stops and such and I can take the pack into restaurants I might stop at.

Just a way cool gun IMHO. It's deadly on birds, too, but you got to get used to the whippy nature of it. It's quite light and short when assembled.

lobo9er
June 15, 2011, 09:23 PM
I'd go with a handgun
+1 on that if you can.
I'm not a seasoned vet at hiking and camping. but I can tell you when I do go I am counting my ounces I carry. And unless I am hunting theres not way a shotgun is gonna find a way into my pack if i gotta hike to "base camp".

Mainsail
June 15, 2011, 10:40 PM
First, nobody that seriously hikes in the lower 48 carries a shotgun, so I don't know what kind of answer you expect. If your definition of 'hike' is to wander around near your vehicle, then carry whatever you want. If you are trying to start seriously hiking, the weight of any shotgun (except maybe the aforementioned Serbu) makes it ridiculous. If you want to hike and experience nature, leave your paranoia at the trailhead and just hike. If you feel like you need a firearm for protection, carry a light handgun.

jon86
June 15, 2011, 10:53 PM
+1 mainsail.

I don't do any "serious" hiking, but I can't imagine carrying more than a handgun. Usually just a glock, if I'm going 10 miles or more up and down mountains than I'll probably just take a 38 special. There are no grizzly's where I hike. My water and a sandwiches are way more important than a shotgun.

However, to those of you who do carry a shotgun when you hike, more power to you.

6x6pinz
June 15, 2011, 11:59 PM
the OP did not ask what "would" you carry he asked what "do" you carry. Not sure many can answer that in the shotgun section.

While I have done a considerable amount of backpacking, carrying a shotgun has never been on my list. On several occasions when deer hunting was slow and squirrel was in season I would pack around an old Snake Charmer with 4 rounds in the stock. I would not consider doing this on a backpack trip though. On some of my backpack trips where we knew we were going to be in cottontail rich areas we would plan a meal with fresh rabbit and I would take my old AR7 but that is a 22.

KodiakBeer
June 16, 2011, 01:10 AM
Yes, there is a profound difference between hiking most of the lower 48 and Alaska. A small shotgun like the coach gun pictured above weighs less than the water you'd carry in many places. It will provide rabbits, ptarmigan, grouse and defense against bears.

amprecon
June 16, 2011, 09:59 AM
amprecon: two problems.

1. the KSG doesnt exist as a product.

2. its completely off topic.

1. According to Kel-Tec http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg/ it has already been developed and will be offered for sale late 2011, so I would say it does exist as a product.

2. To suggest something like this would be off topic.
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/amprecon/Guns/RRALAR-6b.jpg


3. This is my woods shotgun, a Remington 870 with 2 3/4" 00 buckshot from any of the various reputable ammuntion manufacturers.
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab167/amprecon/Guns/Remington8701.jpg

4. So, your from Bakersfield, CA huh.........?

Andrew Wyatt
June 16, 2011, 11:48 AM
Amprecon, there's the whole rest of the forum for discussing everything else about shotguns, and fifteen threads specifically for the KSG. This thread is for getting information about what people use for a backpacking gun.

Smokey in PHX
June 16, 2011, 12:19 PM
A 12ga single shot or double barrel both w/ 19 inch barrel. Which ever one I take is carried in a scabbered hooked to my pack. Loaded with buckshot and extras in butt cuff. Also carry a handgun.

oneounceload
June 16, 2011, 12:59 PM
When I have hiked/backpacked, I used a handgun - a shotgun has no business in the pack if you are seriously hiking, as weight means everything.

But if you really feel the need for one, get the Serbu

Cosmoline
June 16, 2011, 01:08 PM
Folks, if you do not carry a shotgun and don't have to then bully for you. This thread is for sampling people who have and do. Maybe that means only Alaskans and some Canadians are going to chime in, but so be it. There are about 5,000 thread devoted to the general debate elsewhere.

Panzercat
June 16, 2011, 02:27 PM
@ Wyatt
I gotta say, the very general thrust of your question makes it nearly impossible to answer your specific questions, let alone complaining about the answers you're being given. Hiking in Alaska is not the same as hiking in Arizona. It's a stupidly broad comparison, but hardly an impossible one.

Answer this question first and your answers will be a tons more coherant: Where do you plan on hiking?

Without that bare minimum of information, the only thing we can give you for an answer is the absolute lowest common denominator which will handle every possible situation you can encounter hiking in any given environment: a 12g pump shotgun with a variety of hardcast slugs and birdshot, or some other firearm based on our experiences, not your intentions. Give us a bit more of what you have in mind and you'll probably get more useful responses to your other specific questions.

1. According to Kel-Tec http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/pr...c-shotgun-ksg/ it has already been developed and will be offered for sale late 2011, so I would say it does exist as a product.

Yeah, and like their RFB, good luck on ever finding one. When you do, send that leperchaun and his goddamn pot of gold my way while your at it.

Andrew Wyatt
June 16, 2011, 02:48 PM
I'm not asking for reccomendations. I already have a shotgun i use. I am gathering information on what people use and what circumstances they get used in. it's right there in the first post.

Panzercat
June 16, 2011, 03:00 PM
Which is why the information vomit doesn't come as a surprise ;)

daorhgih
June 16, 2011, 03:03 PM
Two words: "Serbu Shortie"

USAF_Vet
June 16, 2011, 03:56 PM
IF I were to do some serious back packing, not just dink around a local forest for a few hours, no more than a cell phone call away, I probably pack my Stevens 20 gauge single, broken down, as well as a .45 ACP (cuz it's the only pistol I have. That's backpacking, not camping.

Next weekend, I'm camping out for two nights and will be taking my Mav 88 12 gauge 5+1 pump, along with my .22 Savage rifle and .45 pistol. But I'm going to be static and have a place to keep everything. Backpacking, not so much. Everything I have would be carried with me, so weight is certainly a factor, which I why I would take the lighter of my two shotguns and various shot shell loads (8 shot, 00 buck and slugs, a few of each) plus pistol.

Dave McCracken
June 16, 2011, 04:20 PM
I do little backpacking now, but when I did, it was often a single shot shotgun or that Savage Model 24 in 22LR/20 gauge.

Andrew Wyatt
June 16, 2011, 07:18 PM
I went ahead and just made a poll out of the post.


http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MFPQXGG

Pete D.
June 16, 2011, 11:14 PM
I were to do some serious back packing, not just dink around a local forest for a few hours, no more than a cell phone call away, I probably pack my Stevens 20 gauge single, broken down, as well as a .45 ACP (cuz it's the only pistol I have. That's backpacking, not camping.

If you were seriously back packing, would you really want to carry an extra 10 lbs (two guns and ammo)? That is about a quarter of the weight of my pack. I'd rather have food and water.
Pete

Youngster
June 17, 2011, 12:19 AM
I'd leave the shotgun behind if I was doing nothing but tackling steep slopes but otherwise its nice to have, has helped get me out of trouble on two occasions, plus I like target shooting in an outdoors setting anyway so why not?

lobo9er
June 17, 2011, 12:21 AM
If you are trying to start seriously hiking, the weight of any shotgun (except maybe the aforementioned Serbu) makes it ridiculous.

how far are you hiking? if you want to carry a shotgun bring a lite one, but I bet 2nd time around you leave it in the trunk or home. what kind of trip do you have planned?

Southpaw 02
June 17, 2011, 11:13 AM
Andrew, I thought about your question. While I generally carry a handgun when hiking usually a .357 revolver. This is what I might choose.


What configuration of gun do you use for backpacking/trail use? An older model Ithaca 37 deerslayer. The smoothbore type.

Gauge? 20

Sighting system? Rifle sights

Accessories? Stock cuff

Ammunition? A mix of game loads to slugs.

Method of carry? Slung although I might consider a scabbard on the pack.


What Ranges do you expect to be engaging targets at? I agree w/ a pp 5-50 yards.
What kinds of targets do you expect to engage? Anything from game to vermin


SP

amd6547
June 17, 2011, 12:16 PM
The heaviest weapon I ever carried backpacking was a 6" 44 mag with 18rds of ammo.
On that rough country trip, with lots of up and down terrain, I felt every ounce.
When I realized that the biggest threat I faced in the woods were two legged, I never packed a heavy weapon again.
Were I packing in grizzly country, then I might consider a shotgun.

Andrew Wyatt
June 17, 2011, 12:39 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=598359


this is the location of the thread on backpacking guns in general.

USAF_Vet
June 17, 2011, 06:02 PM
If you were seriously back packing, would you really want to carry an extra 10 lbs (two guns and ammo)? That is about a quarter of the weight of my pack. I'd rather have food and water.
Pete

The two guns + ammo don't come close to 10 pounds. But yes, I would. Food and water are field expedient and abundantly available (variable with location of course) in my area. In Iraq I would routinely hump a pack weighing in over 70 pounds, usually more. 40 or 50 would be childs play in comparison.

amd6547
June 17, 2011, 07:02 PM
Of course one "could" hump 70lbs when 40 is sufficient...but why?
A friend of mine hiked the Appalachian Trail...he talked about all the gear he saw abandoned in the first 20miles of the trail...things people just "had" to have.

Justin
June 17, 2011, 07:34 PM
1. According to Kel-Tec http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/pr...c-shotgun-ksg/ it has already been developed and will be offered for sale late 2011, so I would say it does exist as a product.


I've seen exactly one of these.

At the SHOT Show.

Until it's actually for sale at a local gun shop, it's not even a contender in the discussion.

Furthermore, Kel-Tec has a history of continuously pushing back release dates for new guns for months or even over a year or so.

On top of that, their production facilities are somewhat limited, and I wouldn't expect to see these as a regular option at most gun shops for at least a few years. Heck, the Kel-Tec RFB has been "available" for around two years now, yet the supply is still incredibly limited.

Additionally, it's ridiculous to suggest using the KSG for any sort of serious application until there's more data available on how well they function and hold up under use.

Undoubtably they'll be a phenomenal choice for playing Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 online, but without real-world data, it's tremendously premature to suggest that the KSG would be a gun that you could rely on when your life is on the line.

michael5446
June 17, 2011, 08:18 PM
one of these and a fly fishing pole... i try to keep it simple, triple-ought buck loads and some good flies:)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=144078&stc=1&d=1308352648

mickeygrimreaperblueeyes
June 18, 2011, 08:35 PM
winchester model 13. extended tube 9+1. 19" rifled barrel. 12 ga. 00,000, slug. factory rifle sights. 5 shot side saddle on right side of stock. quick slide nylon sling. molle scabbard on day pack. 25 shot bandoleers x 3. whatever drains my M16 gets close enough to me for the shotty, the 00, 000. and slugs in the rifled barrel get out to 50 yards quite nicely. Targets, what targets?

MCgunner
June 18, 2011, 08:54 PM
I agree with those that say the shotgun, any shotgun, is too heavy for serious hiking, day hiking or overnight/trek backpacking. Mostly what I've done is day hiking, but those are sometimes long days in high country. Most of my younger days I was unarmed and felt no fear of animals. There's no griz around Texas/New Mexico and I really don't fear cats or black bear.

Now, in addition to the gun, just how much shotgun ammo can you carry before it weighs too much? Yeah, I have mostly carried a medium frame 4" .357 when I carried anything, but a 3" J frame .38 is probably going to be my companion on future hikes. I've even carried 2" .38s in the past. No real need for a magnum on the trail EXCEPT I wanted my magnum in Big Bend concealed in a fanny pack on short hikes around the river, not for animals, but being that close to Mexico gives me the creeps now days. There's always the possibility of getting shot at when you're near the river or anywhere near the border. Drug runners and cartel hit squads run down there, has been a problem, and while it's not to the point I was willing to cancel my trip, I thought having a handgun with some range to it would be prudent. Can't carry a long gun in a national park, has to be a concealed weapon. I couldn't QUITE get my 6.5" blackhawk in that fanny pack, but I don't think I'd be much better armed than with the 4" DA gun which is VERY accurate.

I carried 24 extra rounds in speed loaders that last trip a few months ago. A box of .357 is too much weight, let alone shotgun shells and a shotgun.

Deltaboy
June 18, 2011, 08:57 PM
I carry a M-85 H&R 20 gauge shotgun.

Grousefeather
June 18, 2011, 09:04 PM
I use a Ithica 37, 12 ga, 20". Old model with no disconnector. I have been looking at the web site for the Stoger Condor "outback". Available in 12 and 20, short barreled O/U with built in sights on the rib. It looks very handy.

oneounceload
June 18, 2011, 10:55 PM
The two guns + ammo don't come close to 10 pounds

Really? A typical 12 gauge runs at least 7#, a box of shells is another 3 - that's 10 right there without the other gun and ammo - then there is the awkwardness of a long gun while traversing varying terrain

Onmilo
June 19, 2011, 10:43 AM
If our young soldiers can traverse the mountains of Afghanistan carrying a whole plethora of mil-spec junk along with them, I'm pretty sure the average in shape backpacker can do the same with a day pack, long gun, and sidearm,,,:rolleyes:

oneounceload
June 19, 2011, 03:20 PM
If our young soldiers can traverse the mountains of Afghanistan carrying a whole plethora of mil-spec junk along with them, I'm pretty sure the average in shape backpacker can do the same with a day pack, long gun, and sidearm,,,

Apples to oranges - but if you want to schlep more weight than necessary and have it awkwardly hanging on your shoulder, by all means, have at it

(no one said ANYTHING a bout physical shape)

Youngster
June 19, 2011, 03:44 PM
I find that, comfort wise, carrying up to 35 lbs or so is a non issue, unless you're dealing with steep broken terrain.

Even subtracting the weight of a long gun and ammo, 35 lbs gives you plenty of weight left for supplies and gear, if you know what you want to do and how to do it.

KodiakBeer
June 19, 2011, 05:04 PM
Whether the weight is worth it, depends on where you live.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac164/kodiakbeer/OpenCountry.jpg

lobo9er
June 19, 2011, 09:47 PM
The two guns + ammo don't come close to 10 pounds.
gotta be pretty close.

MCgunner
June 19, 2011, 10:04 PM
In Texas/New Mexico, there's really NO use for a shotgun on the trail that a sidearm can't do better. You could, perhaps, dream up survival scenarios where the shotgun would be advantagous, but I'd rather just have a small revolver along and some rounds to go with it in speed loaders.

I've never been to Alaska. If I lived there, I'd probably buy and carry a .45/70 Marlin Guide Gun in a pack scabbard. I am more of a rifleman when it comes to big, four legged critters. The shotguns I own are for feathered quarry or perhaps rabbits. However, a slug gun would work, I guess. Problem with any long gun is getting it into action FAST if you actually find that you need it. Bears are pretty fast. I'm a pretty decent handgun shot and handguns have been used successfully for bear defense.

Again, I don't have to worry about that down here and a .38 or .357 will stop a human.

Deltaboy
June 19, 2011, 10:46 PM
I do little backpacking now, but when I did, it was often a single shot shotgun or that Savage Model 24 in 22LR/20 gauge.
Yes the 24 I pray I own one before I die!

Dave McCracken
June 19, 2011, 11:03 PM
Good luck,Deltaboy. It was a fine tool.

Mr. T
June 20, 2011, 02:13 AM
Youth Model 20 gauge....Remington 870. It's light and can deal with most anything!

Pete D.
June 20, 2011, 10:03 AM
Two guns not 10 lbs.?
I probably pack my Stevens 20 gauge single, broken down, as well as a .45 ACP (cuz it's the only pistol I have. That's backpacking, not camping.

The .45, if its a 1911, weighs 2.5lbs loaded with seven rounds. Extra ammo? The Stevens weighs about five pounds, a box of 20 ga. shells weighs close to three.
Pete
PS - You and the other brave men who carry/carried seventy pound packs and went into harms way are to be much admired for your and their service. (tears in my eyes as I write this) Thanks.
Pete

Andrew Wyatt
June 20, 2011, 11:31 AM
Remember to fill in the poll : http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MFPQXGG

poll closes tomorrow at noon.

tkopp
June 20, 2011, 07:16 PM
I'm going camping next week. I have some advantages;

I'm camping at Rasar state park. So I only have to carry my tent/sleeping mat/sleeping bag in 100 yards. I'll also only carry the majority of my food in 100 yards. This means my day pack can be a very minimal loadout; not comfortable survival, but enough that if I got lost/injured/etc on the trails I'd be fine for a day or two. My day pack includes;

A fleece vest
lightweight poncho (rolls up into a small ball)
1.5l water
Water purification tablets
crystal light packs
3 cans food
Can opener and spoon
Change of clothes, with an extra pair of socks and underwear.
First aid kit
550 cord
2 survival blankets
fire starters
2x lighters
Mosquito repellent
Sun screen
Hat
Roll of toilet paper
Shovel (cold steel model with sharpened sides, also works as a hatchet)
Flashlight with spare battery.
12ga Stoeger Coach gun
30 rounds of ammo, mix of buck and slug.

That's enough that I could survive overnight with only mild discomfort. It all weighs in at just under 30lbs. If I were living out of the one pack and traveling more than just looping around the trails I'd trade in the shotgun for more water and a little more food, and one of the emergency blankets for a light-duty sleeping bag. All depends on what you're doing, I suppose.

ISO1600
June 20, 2011, 09:20 PM
+1 more to Mainsail.

I have done some moderately serious hiking in NM, TX, and AR, and just can't see carrying any shotgun. About the limit of what i'd comfortably carry while out in the woods for more than an hour or few would be some kind of polymer auto.

amd6547
June 20, 2011, 09:33 PM
Tkopp...my backpack for a four day overnight, 30 mile trip weighed 40lbs, including tent, sleeping bag, food, stove, cookware, assorted small gear, the backpack itself...and a Glock 23 plus two mags.

tkopp
June 21, 2011, 01:28 AM
I could get a tent and sleeping bag in and stay under 40lbs (I'm already carrying the rigging for a shelter and blankets). Cookware's a half and half proposition. On one hand it has mass, but on the other I could go with lighter food and spend more time preparing. It's four days' food (and a larger water buffer) that really tips the scales. If I were going to be spending more time from camp I'd have to drop the shotgun's weight. Honestly, it doesn't take a 12ga to deal with a black bear (generally max at 250lbs around here), and I probably won't see one. On the other hand, it's like a binky for a grown man. I just sleep better at night having it. And since I can, well. Why not? ;)

Mainsail
June 21, 2011, 12:21 PM
As I’ve said in any of the dozens of bear threads, there are thousands of hikers crawling over trails here in the Pacific Northwest, and the vast majority of them are unarmed. I’ve read several hike reports so far this spring where the hiker or backpacker saw a bear, in some cases with cubs. The bear couldn’t be any less interested in the hiker. If they see, smell, or hear you coming- they are going to be moving away from you and you’ll never even know it was there. Cougars generally don’t hunt people, although they are known to stalk them. Goats can be aggressive, and we had one goat related death on the trail last year. Nevertheless, you cannot legally shoot a goat just for following you. Elk and deer attacks are even less likely. We don't have wild hogs, but they would make me nervous. So you’re going to point your shotgun at….what?

I don’t understand this paranoia that if you step ten feet off the pavement every animal over 40 pounds is going to start hunting you. Seriously, carry a firearm if it makes you more comfortable (I do) but if you’re so afraid of nature you believe you need a long gun, it might be better (for everyone) if you just stayed on the paved surfaces.

DAdams
June 21, 2011, 12:39 PM
When I am boat camping (Zodiac in the National Parks) I try to use backpacking gear and tactics although we can go a little heavier since our humping is confined to getting gear to a remote camsite through the red clay. There are black bear in the Parks we frequent but I carry dedicated spray for those guys. For the errant whack job on two legs I carry an inexpensive yet reliable semi-auto in .380 with three magazines and 25 rounds.

My logic, if it goes overboard for some odd reason or if the Park Ranger were to go "postal Ranger" and confiscate it for some reason (legal now but wasn't back in the day) it wouldn't break my heart if I never got it back.

When I do day hikes I carry the same (less than 20 oz), although I have plenty of other options. None would include a shotgun under any circumstances other than maybe car or RV camping. In that case my Maverick 88, 12, 18 inch with 00. I typically take along things that are functional, reliable can be beat up, yet readily replaceable. If it had to go in a backpack I would put a pistol grip on the Mav 88 and a sling. No favorites or heirlooms.

rio nueces
June 22, 2011, 01:06 AM
A fleece vest
lightweight poncho (rolls up into a small ball)
1.5l water
Water purification tablets
crystal light packs
3 cans food
Can opener and spoon
Change of clothes, with an extra pair of socks and underwear.
First aid kit
550 cord
2 survival blankets
fire starters
2x lighters
Mosquito repellent
Sun screen
Hat
Roll of toilet paper
Shovel (cold steel model with sharpened sides, also works as a hatchet)
Flashlight with spare battery.
12ga Stoeger Coach gun
30 rounds of ammo, mix of buck and slug.



Shoot! A fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qqfsQGYus

MCgunner
June 22, 2011, 02:51 PM
If our young soldiers can traverse the mountains of Afghanistan carrying a whole plethora of mil-spec junk along with them, I'm pretty sure the average in shape backpacker can do the same with a day pack, long gun, and sidearm,,,

I'm not an 18 year old soldier, I'm a 59 year old who's a bit over-weight (okay, a little more than a bit), bad back, hips and knees that snap in the mornings or anytime they sit in one position too long. I haven't done any LONG hikes in over 10 years, morning hikes, afternoon hikes, lots of rest stops, about it. Normally I hike rough country which adds to the pain. It sux getting old. BUT, I didn't even care about being armed in the 70s when I was hiking a lot. I don't worry about wildlife NOW, the least of my worries, but I do worry a bit about border violence in the neighborhood of the river which is why I carried a .357 magnum 4" medium frame revolver on my trip to the Bend this year. It's something light, but can reach out and touch someone if necessary and I practice a lot at long range being a handgun hunter and having competed in IHMSA for a while.

I have carried a .38 on hunting trips to take camp meat, rabbits with. Now days, since it's legal to carry in parks, I carry my concealed weapon, a .38 usually, sometimes the 9. I had my 9 in my pocket out in the Bend this year, my normal carry. It's insignificant at 14 ounces unloaded. I did start noticing the .357 and the bottle of water on my fanny pack. I'm glad I wasn't packing a long gun.

I'll give up these trips when I'm 6 feet under, I reckon, but so long as I can walk, I'll hike, maybe not all day, but I'll hike!

MCgunner
June 22, 2011, 02:56 PM
Oh, and 20 years ago, i went on my first mountain muley hunting adventure. I carried a big, heavy 7 mag, a Savage 110. It got real heavy real fast. I later acquired a Remington M7 in .308. It's a much better rough country rifle IMHO, not quite the power and a little more drop, but more accurate and a lot easier to carry while spot and stalking rough country.

Yes, long guns are a bit much for just your recreational back packing weekend. Of course, you can't get out of carrying one if you're hunting. I have experiance with this sort of thing. Add a HEAVY backpack with that long gun and, well, I'll pass.

USAF_Vet
June 22, 2011, 05:15 PM
Ok, so it appears I'm close to 10 pounds with the two guns. the .45 on my hip with loaded mag and spare on the holster all told weighs in a hair over 4 pounds. But it's 4 pounds I'm very used to carrying, and with a decent belt, I hardly feel it. 2 mags is all I have for it, so not worry about extra weight in ammo.

The Stevens is a shade under 5 pounds, and 10 shells or so... yeah, I'm right at about 10 pounds. But the shotgun is broken down and dispersed through my gear, not slung at the ready. If I absolutely need to shoot in SD, I'm going with the .45 with 9 rounds in the mag. The shotgun is there for targets of opportunity, nothing like ending a good hike at camp with a roasted rabbit over the fire. I'm not so crazy as to think I'm going to use a single shot 20 guage for SD.

Alaskan Bob
June 23, 2011, 07:51 PM
I was carrying a .45 here in Alaska for bear, that is until I saw how a .45 penetrated on a dead bear. I now carry a glock .40, much better penetration and I have seen it take a bear down. You could consider the 10mm but I went with the 40 because of how hard it is to find ammo for the 10.

MCgunner
June 23, 2011, 08:21 PM
10mm=reloader's firearm.

Hocka Louis
June 23, 2011, 10:13 PM
A shotgun is a TERRIBLE backpacker's gun. Gun and ammo too big and heavy and cumbersome for the power and capability.

Being afield is different. I HAVE kept a 12 ga. 18-1/2" Mossberg with Winchester 3" Magnum Plated 000 Buck in Alaska nearby (but backpacked with open eyes, bells, bear-spray and a five-shot 3" + compensator .44 Mag w/Buffalo Bore low-recoil hard Keith semi-wadcutters).

CONUS in bear country? Occassionaly, a 2-1/2" + compensator .357 with Federal hard Core-Cast Vital Shock semi-wadcutters. I have prepared for this, and just bought an old, unused, Savage .22 Mag/20 ga. O/U on a whim -- I'd be confident in that and it seems pretty versatile but am really not gonna "backpack" anything with a stock unless I'm near the Mexican border. As likely to be a customized 18-1/2" .22 Mag takedown pump gun in the pack (which is also in my trunk) or a 20" .22 Mag lightweight scoped stainless bolt in the hand if I had to carry a long gun for no specific reason (which I really wouldn't except for shtf/bugout/general survival). Its kinda an odd premise actually. The more I think about it, I suspect the OP has never really backpacked and probably camps at numbered sites -- is that correct?

My purpose-bought backpacking gun? YEARS ago!? An 11-oz. stainless 4" barreled five-shot .22 Mag holstered in a belt pack, loaded, plus 10 spare (Federal 50 gr. FMJ) cartridges in a rubbery "coin-purse" in my pack. Mine was the first dual-cylindered of these guns and NAA and I got a little ink in the backpacking press at the time.

Cryogaijin
June 24, 2011, 06:02 AM
10mm Witness. I consider a shotty too unweildy and heavy for hiking.

jbg762
August 24, 2011, 03:28 PM
I don't understand the concept of asking what other people use, then whining about the answer. But OK, here's MY backpacking shotgun and what I use it for:

I don't carry a backpacking shotgun. If I'm hunting I may, depending on what I'm hunting, but if I'm just backpacking there's no reason to carry a shotgun. I always carry a handgun for defense, and I might bring along a little .22 rifle to do some light hunting for the stew pot. No reason for a shotgun. That's MY carry, so you can't complain about MY choice. Since MY choice is to not carry a shotgun. The closest I might go would be an M6 Scout over/under .22/.410 or MAYBE an over/under .22/.410 or .22/20 gauge such as the Savage 24. But I don't own either of those at the moment so I don't carry them. Since there's really only one reason to carry a shotgun backpacking. Hunting. For any other uses there are better choices.

jbg762
August 24, 2011, 03:34 PM
I was carrying a .45 here in Alaska for bear, that is until I saw how a .45 penetrated on a dead bear. I now carry a glock .40, much better penetration and I have seen it take a bear down. You could consider the 10mm but I went with the 40 because of how hard it is to find ammo for the 10.
Interesting. I usually carry a .40 as well, since I have 3. Bears are not much of a concern in my area, though I have run into small black bears in the woods before. What do you think is the best .40 load for bear (penetration)? I'm guessing an FMJ?

oneounceload
August 24, 2011, 03:39 PM
A fleece vest
lightweight poncho (rolls up into a small ball)
1.5l water
Water purification tablets
crystal light packs
3 cans food
Can opener and spoon
Change of clothes, with an extra pair of socks and underwear.
First aid kit
550 cord
2 survival blankets
fire starters
2x lighters
Mosquito repellent
Sun screen
Hat
Roll of toilet paper
Shovel (cold steel model with sharpened sides, also works as a hatchet)
Flashlight with spare battery.
12ga Stoeger Coach gun
30 rounds of ammo, mix of buck and slug.

No knife/knives? and 30 rounds? You defending a fort?

I don’t understand this paranoia that if you step ten feet off the pavement every animal over 40 pounds is going to start hunting you. Seriously, carry a firearm if it makes you more comfortable (I do) but if you’re so afraid of nature you believe you need a long gun, it might be better (for everyone) if you just stayed on the paved surfaces.

Well put.

It is the same paranoia that has folks hiding guns in every room of their house, including the shower, or thinking they need 2 or 3 guns on them, with spare ammo, every time they step outside

jbg762
August 24, 2011, 03:41 PM
As I’ve said in any of the dozens of bear threads, there are thousands of hikers crawling over trails here in the Pacific Northwest, and the vast majority of them are unarmed. I’ve read several hike reports so far this spring where the hiker or backpacker saw a bear, in some cases with cubs. The bear couldn’t be any less interested in the hiker. If they see, smell, or hear you coming- they are going to be moving away from you and you’ll never even know it was there. Cougars generally don’t hunt people, although they are known to stalk them. Goats can be aggressive, and we had one goat related death on the trail last year. Nevertheless, you cannot legally shoot a goat just for following you. Elk and deer attacks are even less likely. We don't have wild hogs, but they would make me nervous. So you’re going to point your shotgun at….what?

I don’t understand this paranoia that if you step ten feet off the pavement every animal over 40 pounds is going to start hunting you. Seriously, carry a firearm if it makes you more comfortable (I do) but if you’re so afraid of nature you believe you need a long gun, it might be better (for everyone) if you just stayed on the paved surfaces.
AMEN

Dr.Rob
August 24, 2011, 04:35 PM
I had a friend that packed a plastic stocked 'snake charmer' shotgun in his kit.

Never saw him use it, it was just part of his normal 'kit'. He kept it stashed in a scabbard on his pack. Doubt he had more than 5 shells. He didn't hunt with it or use it as 'bear defense' it was strictly a survival tool.

Milkmaster
August 24, 2011, 11:20 PM
Savage 24 gets my vote. I take it when I go to the woods and have no idea what I might see. Mine is a 22WMR over 20GA with a sling.

Alaskan Bob
August 25, 2011, 03:45 PM
Opps! :what:

Alaskan Bob
August 25, 2011, 03:47 PM
Interesting. I usually carry a .40 as well, since I have 3. Bears are not much of a concern in my area, though I have run into small black bears in the woods before. What do you think is the best .40 load for bear (penetration)? I'm guessing an FMJ?
I recommend this one from Double tap, it is a good round for hunting and protection.

Double Tap Caliber : .40 S&W
Bullet : 200gr. Wide Flat Nose Gas Checked
Ballistics : 200gr. @ 1050fps / 490 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0"bbl)
Glock 22 4.5" bbl - 1106fps
Glock 27 3.5" bbl - 1009fps

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