Surplus vs commercial

thinking of getting a hand gun , would like to know the pros/cons of each. Some suggestions would be nice such as websites to order from. I have a slight affection for the makarov.

With a milsurp, there is no warranty and no customer service. If there is a problem, and you can't fix it, you will have to pay a gunsmith. This very well may cost more than the pistol did.

With some models, parts and magazine availability are very poor. This isn't true of all milsurp pistols, but it is true of some of them.

More information of what you were thinking about would help a lot.

The Makarov is a very good pistol and would be a fine choice.

well its for home defense and would be my first firearm. Can't have anything to large because i live on the third floor of an apartment and the walls aren't exactly thick. http://centerfiresystems.com/makgunbul.aspx i don't know if that link will work.

also anyone have any info about this? http://www.buymilsurp.com/czech-cz70-765-pistol-with-1-magazine-p-42232.html

also anyone have any info about this? http://www.buymilsurp.com/czech-cz70-765-pistol-with-1-magazine-p-42232.html
I would look at CZ82 or CZ83 instead. Much better pistol and parts are readily available if something breaks.

I would look at CZ82 or CZ83 instead. Much better pistol and parts are readily available if something breaks.
Agreed. I got a CZ82 from Wideners. $199.99, including shipping. $200.00 with a 1 cent round up donation to the NRA :) It's in really nice shape.
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000116&dir=700|1012|1027

The CZ82 has some interchangeable parts with the CZ83 (current commercial manufacture) but costs 1/2 of the CZ83. About the main differences are (as I understand it) the barrel, and the trigger guard.

That means parts can be obtained without too much difficulty.

I got a CZ82 because it's:

Ambidextrous with mag release and grip - I shoot righty, but I'm a lefty, so I'm going to try my hand at shooting lefty, too. Even got a left holster from Wideners.

Polygonal rifling - the bore on my pistol looks pristine, and I like that it's not traditional rifling, just an interesting aspect to the firearm.

9x18 - I can trim down my 9x19 cases as needed, and load my own.

Durable - used to be issued to the army and police, seems really, really solid.

Cheap - $199 for a holster, pistol, lanyard, 2 mags, and a cleaning rod.

Enough power, but not too much - 9mm Makarov is about between .380 and 9mm Luger - the less "oompf" that goes through walls in my house if i ever do (God forbid) have to shoot at someone, the better. If it proves itself reliable enough, I'm going to look into getting some new tritium sights for it.

C&R - with my FFL03, it got shipped right to my door.

can i buy that if i dont have a c n r license?

I've recently purchased a surplus CZ 75 from Wideners, and it's a great gun. The finish is a little worn as it was a Czech police gun, but all in all it's a very nice gun. It's a very good shooter.

can i buy that if i dont have a c n r license?

Yeah, you just have to have it transferred through a FFL. The C&R is a collector's FFL which lets you have certain firearms (most often surplus) shipped to your door instead of having to do it through a gun store.

IIRC it's around $30 and gets you FFL discounts from certain retailers, so it is probably worth getting on that basis alone. But it is definitely not mandatory to purchase C&R firearms.

thats cool i think i will order through them its cheaper , and with some positive feedback about both the pistol and no complaints about ordering from them

The 9mm will go through apartment walls like they aren't there unless they hit something hard or a 2x4 or three. If it won't go through your apartment, it won't hurt the bad guy. Make sure whatever you get will fire hollowpoints, because those won't penetrate as much with a missed shot (try not to have those). I've heard makarovs are finicky about what they feed, and that each one is different. Some only digest FMJ reliably, but that is common with East Bloc weapons.

Don't know what you are paying for that makarov, but I'd bet for a little more you could get a fine used Glock or older Smith auto down there in FL, maybe even a Beretta, and that would be a much better piece in my opinion.

well the only issue is money , so i need something thats cheap , yet reliable with cheap ammo so i can become proficient.

Wideners has a Bulgarian Makarov at $225 shipped, includes original grips, and 2 mags.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000214&dir=700|1012|1026

after seeing that cz i think thats a better deal larger mags and a more modern design if im correct. Aren't they used by czech police? So they have been tested which is always nice

Sobel, if you shoot your new gun enough to get proficient and STAY proficient and perhaps go out and have some fun with it at some club matches in your area you will soon find that you've spent a lot more on the ammo than you have on the gun even if you buy a brand new one.

So my advice is to be frugal by all means. But don't go "bottom of the barrel" out of some false sense of economy over the gun itself.

This is not a slight against Markarovs in particular but it IS a suggestion to stick to a gun which you can get parts for and can service much of the needs of it yourself with a few basic small hand tools.

You'll also find that entering and shooting in some casual local matches is a good way to learn to think not just about shooting but about the things you do WHILE shooting. I'm not saying that it'll make the difference in your apartment. But without actual live man on man shooting at each other it's the best way of getting some practice in where you've got at least SOME measure of adrenaline flowing in your system. Timers and RO's wil do that to a person... :D

Learning the ropes and safety actions needed to compete will serve you well in general gun handling as well. By ingraining it at the matches you'll do it automatically if you should ever actually NEED it.

thats a really good idea , I noticed you were from canada me and my brother have been talking about moving there. Much closer to Upstate ny weather wise than florida. oh i forgot to ask seeing as im 19 im asking for this as a graduation gift and my mother has decided that ive earned it does that change anything about the c & r i know you can recieve handguns as a gift in florida if you are under 21.

Another vote for the CZ-82, for parts availability and other reasons. Not that Makarovs are bad -- they're not -- but the fact that the 82 shares so many parts with the commerical CZ-83 is a big plus.

after seeing that cz i think thats a better deal larger mags and a more modern design if im correct. Aren't they used by czech police? So they have been tested which is always nice

More modern design in general, but they don't have a decocker, which the Makarov does. That means you have to learn how to safely lower the hammer if you want to carry it hammer-down. And yes, they've been tested by the Czech police and military, but the Makarov is also a proven design: it was in use by the Russians (and others) for about 40 years.

On caution with getting a milsurp for your first firearm: sometimes they arrive in less-than-functional condition. If it's something major, of course, the dealer should replace it, but that's just more hassle. Even if it's something minor, that will still throw a monkey wrench in your fun. Case in point: the first CZ-82 I bought needed a new slide-stop spring. The one that was in it had a funny bend and kept falling out. It wasn't a big deal to get a new one and replace it (and I'm not even that mechanically inclined), but it took over a week to get it running. I don't know if you want an experience like that with your first firearm when you can get a decent used Glock for $150 or $200 more.

However, if you have some mechanical ability and a limited budget, you could do a lot worse than a Mak or a CZ-82. You can get 9x18 ammo online for decent prices.

well i have 325 and im ordering tmrw, tho this is complicated by the fact im ordering online and the widenr's needs ffl license before purchase so i have to go to East orange shooting sports first. I just hope they are willing to help me order it. tho im a bit perplexed as to how i'd go about doing this. They may not help because im not 21 and my mothers retired army but not into firearms at all.

First I'd find out if that shop does transfers and how much they cost. Some shops don't like to do it because they think they're losing a sale by helping you buy from someone else. They'll either refuse outright or charge you a ridiculous fee. I've had good luck with gunsmiths who do transfers on the side. Their prices are usually better. You can find FFL's in your area by plugging in your zip code here:

http://www.auctionarms.com/help/FFLNetwork.cfm

Or here:

http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx

Find one near you and then give them a call. They can usually send a copy of their license to the seller by fax or e-mail attachment, which speeds things up a bit.

However, I'm pretty sure you're going to need a parent or guardian's help on this one if you're under 21. AFAIK, an FFL can't sell a handgun to somebody under 21.

I would also strongly recommend that you set aside some of your money to take a course like the NRA First Steps Pistol or Basic Pistol.

that seems like a good idea im still getting money from graduation so ill have 125+ for both ammo and a course i think the place im transfering from also has classes for like 60? it may be a bit expensive . i checked and they do transfers for $30 for the gun and then 20 for each additional item that isnt in the package you ordered hopefully they don't pull some garbage whre i have to pay for the 2nd mag and the holster that comes with the gun

Hmm... $30 doesn't sound too bad for a transfer. I've paid anywhere from $20 to $35. But I'm confused about that "$20 for each additional item." They should only be charging transfer fees for an actual gun: they don't have to do any paperwork for holsters or magazines. Maybe they mean that if you order more than one gun, you get a break on the transfer fee for the second one?

they said something like extra mags and ammo so idk i mean the gun and holster +mags is a package deal . I used to live in Ny , not the city of course but the gun laws don't seem to friendly back home .

If they really want to charge you $20 to "transfer" a holster and a magazine, I would either look for a different FFL or have the seller send the holster and magazine directly to you and send only the gun to the FFL, if they could do that.

sounds reasonable, well i better be off to bed an entire day of going to the gunstore and getting them to help me order all this business , Iwas wondering if i should just let my mom go and write down the website and the order number and all that jazz, i have an uneasy feeling they may not do it if they know i will have it in the end too many people worried about straw purchases