Average range of a 9mm and .357


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MR.G
June 15, 2011, 07:54 PM
What is the average range of a 9mm and a .357 magnum fired from a 4" barrel?

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PO2Hammer
June 15, 2011, 08:23 PM
Maximum range they will fly?
Maximum effective range?
Be more specific.

MR.G
June 15, 2011, 09:07 PM
I am trying to find out the average maximum range they will travel before hitting the ground. Probably for comparison both bullet weights about 125 gr.

DogLegArms
June 15, 2011, 09:52 PM
there's a lot of factors involved in calculating that...bullet velocity, drag, altitude, vertical wind, horizontal wind, temperature, humidity, etc.

try and google a ballistics calculator.

Grey Morel
June 15, 2011, 10:33 PM
Assuming the shooter is holding both handguns at an eye level of 5' 5" (66"), both handguns are zeroed @ 25 yards, and both handguns are level with the ground (0* elevation):

1) 125gr 9mm (Hornady .145 BC) @ 1,200fps (generic) would impact the earth at approximately 230 yards.

2) 125gr 357 (Hornady .151 BC) @ 1,600fps (generic) would impact the earth at approximately 280 yards.

HOWEVER, even a few degrees of elevation would increase those numbers exponentially.

Dave T
June 15, 2011, 11:15 PM
No offense Grey but in the real world those velocities are rather optimistic. Probably more like 1100 for the 9mm and 1400 for the 357 Mag.

The OP asked for "average", not best case scenario.

Just sayin',
Dave

BCRider
June 16, 2011, 02:29 AM
Well, since the bullets are very close to the same diameter and the weights are the same for sake of argument the distance is going to be purely based on the velocity if both are shot from level and at the same height.

I still fail to see what this has to do with the price of oranges...... Is there a reason why you asked about the cartridges specifically instead of just asking "two bullets of the same size and weight leave their barrels at x and y velocities....."?

ArchAngelCD
June 16, 2011, 03:09 AM
Well, since the bullets are very close to the same diameter and the weights are the same for sake of argument the distance is going to be purely based on the velocity if both are shot from level and at the same height.

I still fail to see what this has to do with the price of oranges...... Is there a reason why you asked about the cartridges specifically instead of just asking "two bullets of the same size and weight leave their barrels at x and y velocities....."?
Very good point, I'm also curious...

tipoc
June 16, 2011, 08:17 AM
Since you do not specify loads (what weight bullet, what type powder, velocity, etc.) or what you are trying to do, well maybe we can take "average maximum range" as you just want to see how far the round can travel. Figure about a mile or a bit less depending.

Of course the hardest part would be hiking all that way back while looking for a tiny bullet to measure how far it went. But maybe a mile.

tipoc

Frogman
June 16, 2011, 09:01 AM
Effective range on Military silhouette center mass targets is between 25yds & 50yds, thats not say a bad guy could not be taken down at 75 to 100 yds. 15 to 25 is what the military teaches along with most Police Dept's.

highlander 5
June 16, 2011, 09:30 AM
The older Lyman reloading manuals used to have that type of info,but the most recent doesn't.

Haxby
June 16, 2011, 11:50 AM
Max range about 2000 yards with both loads.
I ran a few bullets through a ballistics program, using factory velocities and bc's, and a couple different elevations. They all showed between 1800 and 2200 yards.

The Wiry Irishman
June 16, 2011, 06:46 PM
After testing the cartridge when it was first introduced, didn't Ed McGivern say that the .357 could be used effectively on human sized targets out to 6 or 700 yards?

BCRider
June 16, 2011, 09:55 PM
I don't know about actually taking anyone down at longer ranges but I do know that shooting .357Magnums out of my cowboy action lever gun at a steel gong out at 200 yards produced a nice BONK! sound with about a 6 to 8 inch holdover on a gun sighted for 25 yards. Mind you this is from a nice long 20 inch barrel.

There's a video on YouTube from some time back of a guy doing 100 or 200 yard shots at steel targets with a 2 or 2.5 inch snubnose. He's using a lot of hold over of course and I'm not sure if he used .38Spl or .357Mag rounds. But it does show that if you just want to get a bullet out that far that they'll go a long way. Haxby's figures show what is possible if you just want to reach out. The question is how effective it is by that time.

So MrG, care to let us in on why you asked? Not that it's a bad question. I think we're just curious about the "why" of it.

tipoc
June 17, 2011, 08:25 AM
I ran a few bullets through a ballistics program, using factory velocities and bc's, and a couple different elevations. They all showed between 1800 and 2200 yards.

1 mile equals 1760 yards.

I'm also mildly curious about what he is asking. Is it max effective range? Max distance traveled? etc., etc.

tipoc

MR.G
June 17, 2011, 01:14 PM
The reason for the post was to settle a bet. I live on a lake that is about 650 feet across. My neighbor and I were talking, and he said that a bullet fired from his 9mm, straight and at shoulder height, would hit the water before reaching the other side. Also says that a .357 magnum from a 4" barrel would not make it to the other side. I am no expert on this but bet him that he was wrong.

rcmodel
June 17, 2011, 01:36 PM
Pond = 650 feet = 216 yards.

According to Hornady ballistics tables, you win!

124 9mm FMJ-RN @ 1,100 FPS
Pistol zerod at 25 yards.
Drop at 200 yards = 55.6", or 4.6 feet drop.

140 XTP JHP .357 Mag @ 1,400 FPS.
Pistol zerod at 25 yards.
Drop at 200 yards = 37.5", or 3' 1 1/2" drop.

I'd say the 9mm would probably make it, and the .357 would for sure!

rc

whalerman
June 18, 2011, 11:20 AM
Seeings how shooting across a body of water is not smart, possibly illegal, isn't there a blog policy against us even talking about this topic. I'm surprised this hasn't been locked.

MR.G
June 18, 2011, 11:34 AM
No one shot across any water. It was simply a conversation about how far a bullet fired from a handgun will travel. We were standing beside the pond at the time and used it as an example since we knew the distance to the other side. We are not that stupid to actually shoot across the pond.
Please tell me why this question is so upsetting to everyone.

tipoc
June 18, 2011, 12:29 PM
Mr.G, I don't think anyone was upset. I think Whalerman misunderstood the scenario.

I think some of the rest of us wondered at the question. In your first post the question is posed so broadly that it's hard to know what you were asking. Asking "What is the average range..." is like asking "How loud is a bullet?". The correct answer is "Loud, sometimes very loud" (or maybe, really, really quiet until it's fired). With more specific information the answer can become more specific and useful. By post #16 you got to the pond and the answer is simple and clear.

tipoc

BRE346
June 18, 2011, 03:48 PM
About a mile farther than you'd like.

BCRider
June 18, 2011, 04:13 PM
Exactly what tipoc said.

Nothing wrong with mental exercise discussions. Lots of fun in fact.

Yep, looks like you won the bet. But just barely and dependent on what load is used in each I'd say. Using the Hornady calculator for a 9mm 115gn round operating at a high but not max velocity of 1230 fps I get a 33 inch drop at 200 yards. So techincally either gun would make it to the beach on the other side if optimized distance loads were allowed instead of matching bullet weights.

But obviously neither would make it much, if any, off the beach at the other side even with loads optimized for each gun for horizontal distance.

whalerman
June 18, 2011, 04:14 PM
Actually guys, I was just kinda joking. I've seen so many threads locked for the most absurd reasons that I thought I'd laugh a bit. Sorry. I'll probably get a warning about this.

BCRider
June 18, 2011, 04:21 PM
Just thinking after I hit the Post button that the much loved and "high stopping power" .45ACP would lose out in this sort of "race" since the muzzle velocity would see the rounds skipping across the water like flat stones well before the beach.

I tried to use the Hornady calculator to see how much drop it has but it kept timing out on me. I must have broken their web site... :D

tipoc
June 18, 2011, 09:41 PM
Interesting BC. Now I looked at Bob Forker's book "Ammo and Ballistics Vol. 4" for some information. Bullet drop is calculated as a theoritical construct It's based on the idea of a gun being held parallel to the surface of the earth and calculating how far the bullet drops as it travels in a vacume.

A 115 gr 9mm Remington JHP +p bullet which leaves the muzzle at 1250 fps and has 399 ft.pds of energy will drop 59.1" in 200 yards. At this point it will be moving at 897 fps and have 206 ft pds of energy.

A Federal 230 gr. jhp 45acp round which leaves the muzzle at 850 fps and has 370 ft. pds. of energy will drop 106.4" at 200 yards. At this point it will be moving at 737 fps and have 277 ft. pds. of energy.

Note that the heavier slower round will retain both more energy and velocity than will the lighter round over a longer range. This is true across the board.

tipoc

BCRider
June 18, 2011, 09:50 PM
Odd that there's such a disparity between the Hornady calculator and the book. Unless I was setting the figure into the online calculator wrongly.

tipoc
June 19, 2011, 03:40 AM
A lot to enter in the Hornady calculator.

tipoc

ArchAngelCD
June 20, 2011, 05:14 AM
Well, considering the 125gr .357 Magnum is a proven man stopper we should use that bullet weight in the "test" along with the same weight 9mm bullet. (well, at least a 124gr bullet)

I'm sure the 125gr .357 Magnum easily makes it across but not the 9mm. (too lazy to enter the numbers lol)

tipoc
June 20, 2011, 08:37 AM
OK, again from Forker's book...

Hornady 124 gr. jhp/xtp, velocity at the muzzle 1110 fps and energy of 345 ft. pds. Bullet drop at 200 yards of 68.6", velocity at 200 of 881 fps and energy of 204 ft pds.

Look at a hot Cor-Bon 125 +P 9mm we see velocity of 1250 and energy of 434 ft pds. at the muzzle at 200 yards a drop of 59.7". Velocity falls at 200 yards to 893 fps and energy to 221 ft. pds.

tipoc

BCRider
June 20, 2011, 06:33 PM
A lot to enter in the Hornady calculator.

tipoc

Yep, and not all of it made sense for the items that had options so likely it was me.

ArchAngelCD
June 21, 2011, 02:31 AM
Hornady 124 gr. jhp/xtp, velocity at the muzzle 1110 fps and energy of 345 ft. pds. Bullet drop at 200 yards of 68.6", velocity at 200 of 881 fps and energy of 204 ft pds.

Look at a hot Cor-Bon 125 +P 9mm we see velocity of 1250 and energy of 434 ft pds. at the muzzle at 200 yards a drop of 59.7". Velocity falls at 200 yards to 893 fps and energy to 221 ft. pds.
What kind of .357 Magnum is that?? It's bullet is traveling slower than a 9mm?? Sorry but I have to disagree with your numbers. Why would you pick a very slow magnum round and a +P 9mm round. That bends the results in so many ways... I have shot .38 Special +P ammo that has almost that much velocity.

Why not be fair and at least use the .357 Magnum ammo from Cor-Bon in your calculations instead of finding the slowest .357 Magnum ammo you can.

Caliber: .357 Magnum
Bullet Wt.: 125gr CORBON Self-Defense JHP
Velocity: 1400fps
Energy: 544ftlbs

tipoc
June 21, 2011, 07:32 AM
Archangel. both the Hornady and Cor Bon rounds I referred to in post #29 are 9mm. You asked in post #128 for a 124 or 125 gr. load for the 9mm to compare to the .357 previously cited so I gave you two.

tipoc

Water-Man
June 21, 2011, 07:52 AM
And so the pi*#ing contest begins as usual.

tipoc
June 21, 2011, 08:29 AM
OK so here are two 125 gr. .357 magnum rounds to compare to the two 9mm rounds I gave above. I'm not sure what any of this tells us about the pond as most service or hunting calibers would make it across without a problem.

The figures I'm citing are taken from Bob Forker's book "Ammo and Ballistics" and are different from those you will get from the Hornady calculator because they are for simple bullet drop from a gun without elevation and without atmosphere or the sights taken into consideration. The velocity and energy are standard.

Federal 125 gr. Hi-Shok jhp 1440 fps at the muzzle with 544 ft. pds. of energy. At 200 yards the drop will be 49.5" velocity will be 937 and energy will be 244 ft. pds.

Speer GDHP 1450 fps with 583 ft. pds. of energy will drop 47.7" at 200 yards. The velocity will drop to 952 and energy to 252 ft. pds.

tipoc

ArchAngelCD
June 22, 2011, 12:33 AM
Archangel. both the Hornady and Cor Bon rounds I referred to in post #29 are 9mm. You asked in post #128 for a 124 or 125 gr. load for the 9mm to compare to the .357 previously cited so I gave you two.

tipoc
Sorry about that, my mistake not yours...

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