[David S]

back in WWII the walther pp was developed as officers sidearm whereas the p38 ect was the soldiers side kinda weapon....... with the walther pp. Mauser also had a gun with a similar frame design do accomplish bassicallly the same task as being a small gun for officers to have....... at some point which i am notfamilar with Sig Sauer bought out Mauser or something.......... the Sig p232 is very similar in shape and size as the walther pp series.......... is this the ancestor of the Mauser gun that was designed like the walther? Also, since PPKs are getting hard to find i am considering a p232.......... so any owners of this gun please chime in.......

[Forseti]

If it is a choice between the Sig and the Walther, get the Sig. Walther's have hit-or-miss (no pun intended) reliability, tend to "bite" the owners hand (I remember the first time I looked down and saw the two nicely cut grooves in my hand).

However, there are other weapons out there that may be superior for concealed carry in .380. For example, the new Kel-tec http://www.kel-tec.com/pr03.htm looks very good for weight/size...and cost...

[Gary A]

The Sig P232 or the earlier P230 are absolute jewels. Whatever other pistols you buy or however great the new Kel-Tec turns out to be, I doubt you will ever regret owning a Sig P232.

[jar]

The PPK is 3 of the 4 handguns I've gotten rid of and never regretted. I kept expecting them to have solved the reliability problems and the slice-n-dice factor. I swear, Ron Poppiel must have designed the PPK as his prototype.

But my 230 is just simply my favorite of all my SiGs. It is the most intuitive pointing pistol I've ever found, even better than my HPs. You will never be sorry if you buy a 230 or 232. I prefer the alloy framed ones simply for the weight savings. A blued 230 or 232 weighs 17 ounces.

Another gun for you to check out, maybe even a better value than the SiG 232, is the Makarov. You can get them sor well under $200.00 and my East German Makarove rivals my SiG 230 in reliability and trigger pull.

http://www.fototime.com/215F4AEC9025E7F/standard.jpg

[Coronach]

I carry a P232 off duty and I love it. The caliber ain't exactly super-powerful, but it will get the job done. The gun is a dream to shoot.

Mike

[No4Mk1]

One more very strong vote for the 232. It is my "always" CCW and fits that bill very nicely. It has a beautiful trigger pull, and is scary-accurate. I also have the alloy/stainless model and love the weight and balance of it.

jar, those are some pretty grips on your 232. Where did they come from?

[jar]

No4MKI

They are from Nills. Absolutely the best grips I've ever found.

Nill Grips (http://nill-griffe.com/Pages/homeGB/index.html)

Here is another pic of them...
http://www.fototime.com/610811DC944F240/standard.jpg

and their smooth Combat Grips on a M-27
http://www.fototime.com/01CC5B4CFCF8AB2/standard.jpg

[cmsgt]

I, too, have Nill grips. Really like them, and they have improved my shooting with my 232. I bought the ones with the thumb rest, even though it is not a target gun.
Couple years ago I found their German web site and was considering buying a set from the Fatherland; but was much happier to see their setting up shop in Texas. Friendly service too.
I find my P239 with Hogue finger groove grips to be still a tad more accurate.
And back to the original question, I suggest getting the P232. It has no problem with hollow points, and all my Walthers did. The only reliable Walthers I kept are my 32 caliber 1968 German made PPK and a PP Last Edition in 380 (haven't fired that one yet).

[Jaco]

A request:

Would anyone mind posting a pic with the PPK, Hsc, Makarov, Sig, P32 or any of the compacts, so that one can compare it any other way than by reading the stats?

Thanks

[jar]

Jaco, the SiG 230 and Makarov are posted above.

[dev_null]

SIG 232

http://www.sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/P232STAINLESSBIGHR.jpg

http://www.remtek.com/arms/sig/model/232/232.gif

http://www.galibois.com/marshfield/P232SL.jpg

I'll let you know how it shoots after I get to the range -- hopefully this Wed. after work.

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[BHP9]

If you want a quality gun buy a French/German Walther PP , PPK , or PPks. They were totally reliable and had nothing but the finest forged materiels and workmanship. They were the zenith of all pocket pistols. YOu will find no fragile aluminum, no sheet metal and no castings in these beauties. Their weight is just about ideal being neither too heavy or too light.

The sigs have good workmanship and they do work but quality wise they use aluminum in some models and internals are a combination of castings and stamped sheet metal. The aluminum frame gun is way to light and recoils excessively while the Stainless model weighs a ton. They are accurate , dependable little guns but not in the same class of quality as the original Walthers were. You would not go wrong buying a Sig but they are definately not the cadillacs of the pocket pistols.

STay away from the American made Walthers including the new S&W models. S&W has MiM internal cast parts, cut springs instead of formed springs and a redesigned grip frame which in my opinion takes it out of the class of the original style Walthers. It's outside finish is also not anywhere near the first class finish that was put on the original Walthers.

My own personal PPks, works with any ammo I put into it including cast bullet loads and the inside and outside finish is flawless with a high polished blue job that compares to no other pocket pistol being made today. Now that is class.

[Deuce]

I had a P232 for a few years. Only shot a couple boxes through it. After about half a box, the web of my hand would be scraped raw. I've got XXL hands. If you've got something closer to M-L hands, give it a try.

I saw something about how the new PPK has improved upon this, as I've heard the PPK's are notorious for the same thing. However, I see someone else has recommended against the new PPK's and I cannot contradict that.

I'll be checking out the new P-3AT as well.

Good luck.

[David S]

hmmm PPK? you see there is no new ppk they stopped making them. many people call the PPk/s a PPk and thats wrong. the slide length is the same, but the PPks has a longer grip and its made entirely different than the ppk........the ppk has a wrap around grip whereas the ppks is a slab style. i have medium sized hands.........and for concealed carry im wanting something more like the ppk. one thing about the p232 i noticed is the long, almost PP sized barrel length

[bad_dad_brad]

If I were in the market for a .380 I would go with the Sig P232, because they are so pretty, and J Lo had one in that film with bank robber George Clooney, "Out of Sight."

But if you are serious about CCW, forget the .380 and either go with the ultra light Kel Tec P32 (if you have not handled one, well, they really are light!) or go to a ultra compact 9mm like a Kahr PM9 or MK9.

Dang, that P232 is gorgeous.

[SodaPop]

Give me a range report!! What kind of accuracy and at what range are you shooting? And what kind of ammo?

I almost picked up a Sig 230 last night but ended up walking out the door with the Sig 239. I've spent over 6 months debating what should replace my 38 Special snubby and just couldn't drop down to a .380. It wasn't so much the gun, but more of the design of so many .380s.

I would have picked up the Sig 230 if it had a slide release. I really don't like the idea of having to rack a slide and drop a mag with my left hand. I'd be afraid of firing the gun accidentally under stress. Mag changes are WAAAAAAAAAYYY too slow. If I was going to get a .380 I would take the Sig any day.

[dev_null]

Soda:

"God willing and the creeks don't rise," as LBJ used to say, I'm planning to go to NRA tonight. I'm taking 100 rounds of MagTech, 20 rounds of CorBon, and one mag of Hydra-Shoks.

I bought two holsters for it, an OWB Don Hume that's light but not bad looking, and a cheap Uncle Mike's nylon IWB clipon. After a couple of nights with each, I can say that the Hume is lots more comfortable than the UM (which has a rough spot that scrapes my buttcheek when putting it on), but that I need to find out if there's something like a VersaMax that'll fit this puppy -- there's some sharp edges that make getting in and out of the car occasionally painful.

Will keep you posted on the range trip...

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[SodaPop]

Will keep you posted on the range trip...

Say "Hello" to the blonde for me!?:D

Tell her the dufuss with the 45acp got everything all worked at and things are A-Ok now.

I gotta get there earliar and see the museum.

[dev_null]

100 rounds MagTech FMJ
20 rounds CorBon +P JHP
8 rounds Hydra-Shok JHP

Conditions: Indoor range, but it was after working all day and then driving through "spitting" snow, and I was cold and tired.

Results: Shot like a dream. The gun fits my hand very well, and even though I'm not overly fond of wraparound one-piece rubber grips, it was very comfortable to shoot. I had one FTF about round 60 or 70, which was easily cleared with a tap-rack. I don't know if it's possible to limpwrist a blowback gun, but if so, I would attribute it to that. I have a bad habit of holding my pistols with a "5:30" grip instead of getting my wrist directly behind the axis. At any rate, the grip is nicely contoured (it made my Kimber feel awkward by comparison) and neither too large or too small. At no time did the slide cut my hand -- the grip is shaped such that it's nearly impossible for this to happen.

Sights are crisp and clear, and the nightsights work just fine. The gun was quite accurate with all three flavors of ammo, even the CorBon. I was shooting with a standing two-handed grip, and had no trouble keeping slowfire groups down to a couple of inches at 25'. Rapid-fire groups stayed on a paper plate at 30', the maximum distance I tested on this initial outing. Groups tended to impact slightly lower than my point of aim (the opposite of my Kimber), but this could be due to my unfamiliarity with the gun. I did not have an opportunity to shoot any sandbag or benchrest tests.

Takedown is simple, and cleaning was easy. (Despite forgetting that I was out of PowderBlast... In case anyone's wondering, it *is* possible to clean a gun with nothing but Remington Bore Cleaner and Ballistol. ;) )

The gun is nicely crafted, and despite some machining marks visible when stripped down, it's a real looker. Add to that the light weight and slim profile, and you've got a winner. All in all, very highly recommended.

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PS: Sorry, Soda, she wasn't there.

[SodaPop]

I had one FTF about round 60 or 70,

Did you clean and lube it before you took it to the range?

A funny thing happened to K80Geoff and I at my gun club. A guy was standing there cursing his brand new INOX Beretta 92FS because it kept jamming. K80Geoff asked the guy if he lubed it before he shot it and he said... "NO!" Geoff handed him a bottle of CLP and the gun functioned flawlessly after that.

How much did you pay? The "used" Sig 232 I played with had red dots and rubber grips for $409. The new ones I see around here are close to $500.

I'm gonna try that next time we get together in VA. I'm gonna take that contender out of your hands too.:neener:

[dev_null]

Did you clean and lube it before you took it to the range?

How much did you pay? The "used" Sig 232 I played with had red dots and rubber grips for $409. The new ones I see around here are close to $500.

I'm gonna try that next time we get together in VA. I'm gonna take that contender out of your hands too.
Yeah, cleaned it and put a little CLP on 'er beforehand.

I paid more than I wanted to, the shops here are a bit high, but when I add the mailorder price + shipping + FFL transfer fee, it's usally within twenty or thirty bucks of my local shop's price. Since I belive in supporting local mom-and-pop type stores, I don't mind paying Bernie the extra bucks. I got the stainless model with night sights for $549 plus tax; took less than a week for it to be ordered. I think they were charging about $500 for the one with the regular sights.

I'll be glad to bring it along next time you're down here, along with the T/C... would you prefer the .223 or the .308 barrel? :D

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[SodaPop]

the .308 barrel?

With one hand.:uhoh:

[jar]

Dev_null, you an old UNIXtm retread?

Soda

My 230 is without a doubt the most intuitive pointing pistol I own. If you can point your finger at it you'll hit it with a 230 or 232. It is simply a dream to shoot and to shoot fast. It loves hot ammo. In fact, there is a hot 9mm Kurz made in europe just for the SiG 230s. Wish we could get it here.

I prefer the all alloy over the SS or two-tone simply because they are so much lighter. The alloy version weighs about 17 ounces IIRC. I usually carry mine in a High Noon Holster pocket grabber. Michael, at HNH, also makes a versiion of the pocket grabber with a built in extra mag holder, but I prefer having the extras in my other pocket or on my belt. I carry an extra mag in the holster tha came with one of my Crawford knives.

http://www.fototime.com/38352A8CB3623E2/standard.jpg

[Safety First]

I am not nearly the gun expert that many on this board are..I fact the only real ccw pistol I own is the p239, it shoots great,and fits very well into my wild bills "undercover" iwb...I don't think you"ll ever regret buying it..I will say that I am thinking about one purchase and that would be a pocket pistol..and most seem to like the p-232,so I will be sure to give a good look at that one too when the time comes to purchase a pocket pistol...

[Lone Star]

David S.

To answer your question about German gun makers in WW II, the J.P. Sauer entry was the M38 7.65mm. It has not been produced since the war. Some have preferred it to the Walthers, and I've never heard of one biting the hand. However, it has to be cocked via a thumb lever for SA operation; the Walthers have external hammers that one can just thumb back.

The .32's were extensively used by military police, tank and vehicle crews, and were preferred by German fighter pilots because the cockpits of the the Bf-109 series (in particular) were quite tight, and the rigid, larger holster of the P-08 (Luger) and P-38 might catch on the plane if one had to bail out. Naval personnel frequently also had .32's in lieu of 9mm's.

Sounds like you need to hit the library and read up on basic handgun history!

For the South African gent, doesn't, "Magnum/Man" have a handgun magazine? I think they used to. Anyway, avoid the Mauser HSc. Reports that I've seen suggest that it doesn't hold up as well as its main rivals, and that definitly includes the postwar version, some of which were supposedly actually made for Mauser in Italy. I had one and it pointed awful, and bit my hand on recoil, one of the few handguns to ever do so.

Mr. Null-

Don't you use K.L. Null holsters? The quality is super, and you might be helping out a relative by buying one...if you can afford it! They're not cheap, but probably represent state of the art in concealment holsters.

Lone Star

[dev_null]

I've heard of Null, haven't seen any of their stuff firsthand. I just ordered a Galco deep undercover (or whatever it's called) IWB. The Hume is OK but nothing to write home about. The Uncle Mike's... well, let's just say you get what you paid for. It works, but it's uncomfortable enough that I usually don't take it. One nice thing about it is that it's reversible, so I can put the clip on the other side and use it in a jacket inside pocket if I want (although I'm more likely to just slip my fullsize Kimber into my jacket breast pocket instead). I love my VersaMax II for my Kimber, but I don't think they make one to fit the SIG

Jar: Got certified in UNIX, then promptly got a job (which I still have) doing VBScript/ASP instead... go figure. I do have a Linux box at home I'm playing around with.

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