Reality of 4473 non-disclosure vs state police license records.


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daorhgih
June 21, 2011, 07:05 PM
I've heard that the State Police in each state are attaching LTCH info to Drivers' License data-fields. Not that I don't mind a Trooper knowing that he has pulled over a gun-toting driver. Not at all. But I can feature in the "next" administration there might be some event which would demonize all gun-owners, and word goes out to disarm all citizens, and a traffic-stop is fair game if the cop knows the driver MIGHT be armed. Just one JBT running amok with his new authority could ruin your day. Any counter-point?? Dao.

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GRIZ22
June 21, 2011, 07:28 PM
There are many other ways the "JBT" could identify gun owners if there is a "word out to disarm all citizens".

elano
June 21, 2011, 07:32 PM
What is "JBT"?

Sam1911
June 21, 2011, 07:34 PM
SOME states link CCW permit info to the driver's license. Not all.

(I DO mind it, and no PA doesn't.)

Now, you do know that we're not exactly close to a "disarm all gun owners" situation, right? Like, so unlikely as to be a rather absurd claim -- especially after the wake of hurricane Katrina and the new widespread legal protections against confiscations.

22-rimfire
June 21, 2011, 08:50 PM
Really interesing reading? What's LTCH? JBT? Are you saying gun owners or conceal carry permit holders? What is the linkage with Form 4473?

shotgunjoel
June 21, 2011, 08:58 PM
What's LTCH? License to Carry Handgun.
JBT? No idea.
What is the linkage with Form 4473? Some feel that the Form 4473 (filled out when buying a firearm from a dealer) is a form of national gun/gun owner registration, and could be used as a checklist in the future if certain/all guns were to be banned.

kingpin008
June 21, 2011, 09:01 PM
JBT = "Jack-Booted Thugs".

pikid89
June 21, 2011, 09:01 PM
Some feel that the Form 4473 (filled out when buying a firearm from a dealer) is a form of national gun/gun owner registration, and could be used as a checklist in the future if certain/all guns were to be banned.

as far as i know...the 4473 is only searchable one way and that is not through the names...they have to have a gun's serial number to pull up the correct 4473...they cant search a persons name and see what guns they have

Sam1911
June 21, 2011, 09:11 PM
as far as i know...the 4473 is only searchable one way and that is not through the names...they have to have a gun's serial number to pull up the correct 4473...they cant search a persons name and see what guns they have


The form 4473s are not -- AT ALL -- searchable as a body. They exist only in the filing cabinets (or now hard-drives) of the dealers who sold the gun. They are only sent to the gov't IF the dealer goes out of business within 20 years of selling that gun -- or IF the FBI requests specific information about the purchaser of a gun they've recovered in a crime.

If the FBI recovers a gun used in a crime, they will contact the manufacturer who tells them which store they sold that gun to. Then they call that dealer and that dealer can look up the old 4473 and see who originally purchased that gun.

(Any private sales along the way seriously break up that chain of information.)

A few states to keep a database of firearms purchases. Not many, though, and I haven't heard of any of them ever being directly linked to a driver's license.

What some states DO do is to link to the D/L the info that this individual holds a carry permit, or in some states requiring them, a Firearm Owners ID (FOID) card.

Not only

huntsman
June 22, 2011, 12:12 AM
I've heard that the State Police in each state are attaching LTCH info to Drivers' License data-fields. Not that I don't mind a Trooper knowing that he has pulled over a gun-toting driver. Not at all. But I can feature in the "next" administration there might be some event which would demonize all gun-owners, and word goes out to disarm all citizens, and a traffic-stop is fair game if the cop knows the driver MIGHT be armed. Just one JBT running amok with his new authority could ruin your day. Any counter-point?? Dao.
that's why I don't have a car in my name.

rscalzo
June 22, 2011, 12:58 AM
I've heard that the State Police in each state are attaching LTCH info to Drivers' License data-fields

Not true.

medalguy
June 22, 2011, 01:40 AM
In Texas our driver license records (DL and auto registration) do indicate that we have a handgun license, so when an officer stops you he will radio in the car tag it will come back that the owner has a CHL. I've been stopped several times since obtaining my handgun license and none of the troopers have made an issue of it. One state trooper asked if I carried, and what kind of gun. Another stated that he thought it was a good idea to carry, and people were crazy to travel and not carry.

I don't see any problem with this. If a trooper stops a driver and is told the driver is a licensed handun carrier, then he is assured that the driver is someone who has been checked out by the state police and the FBI and does not have any criminal background. That should certainly reassure him somewhat before he approaches the vehicle.

azmjs
June 22, 2011, 01:42 AM
JBT is hip internet libertarian cop-basher slang for "Jack Booted Thug."

Owen Sparks
June 22, 2011, 02:21 AM
The best way to carry concealed is without a permit.
If they know you have it its not concealed.

dogtown tom
June 22, 2011, 02:56 AM
Owen Sparks The best way to carry concealed is without a permit.
If they know you have it its not concealed.
And in many states thats a felony.:scrutiny:

Yeager
June 22, 2011, 06:55 AM
JBT is hip internet libertarian cop-basher slang for "Jack Booted Thug."

ARFCOM is that way

<--------------

And in many states thats a felony

Pretty soon owning a firearm period will be a felony.

Will you roll over and submit? Or will you become a felon?

22-rimfire
June 22, 2011, 09:22 AM
Will you roll over and submit? Or will you become a felon?

That my friend will be dependant on the situation if such a time ever becomes reality. It would be a personal decision; one with serious ramifications; and not subject to forum digestion. :)

Unistat
June 22, 2011, 09:55 AM
In Michigan our CPLs are linked to our driver's license and plates. We have to inform an officer if we are pulled over and are carrying. I've been pulled over once and been in two accidents (neither my fault) since I've had my CPL. Contrary to what one may read on the internet, I was never proned out, dissarmed, or treated in any way other than professional.

I have no problem informing cops that I carry, after all, I can see theirs.

...Pretty soon owning a firearm period will be a felony.

Will you roll over and submit? Or will you become a felon?

What are you talking about? The overwhelming trend in the majority of the states and in the nation as a whole is towards less restrictive firearms laws. Not that we shouldn't keep pressing, but there's no need to ring the alarms.

JustinJ
June 22, 2011, 10:22 AM
"In Texas our driver license records (DL and auto registration) do indicate that we have a handgun license, so when an officer stops you he will radio in the car tag it will come back that the owner has a CHL."

I didn't realize it was attached to the registration? The irony though is that anybody in TX, CHL or not, who can legally own a handgun can carry a handgun in their car but only those of us with CHLs are required to disclose to LE when pulled over.

merlinfire
June 22, 2011, 10:46 AM
What are you talking about? The overwhelming trend in the majority of the states and in the nation as a whole is towards less restrictive firearms laws. Not that we shouldn't keep pressing, but there's no need to ring the alarms.

Maybe not yet. But in the last 200 years we've gone from militia to standing army, and virtually no firearms restrictions to a vast interconnected web prescribing when, where, and how we can exercise our 2nd amendment rights, if at all. Not yet, but then, it can't be all that long.

Sam1911
June 22, 2011, 11:59 AM
But in the last 200 years we've gone from militia to standing armyThat's a totally separate issue, and really happened in the very early years of the existence of the United States, not gradually as an incremental thing.

virtually no firearms restrictions to a vast interconnected web prescribing when, where, and how we can exercise our 2nd amendment rights, if at all. This is also misleading. There were no federal laws on gun control for the first 158 years of the nation. Then, there were only a very small set until 1968. So, really, the "vast interconnected web" we all know and hate is a product of only the last 43 years. And now the balance is shifting back in our direction. Today the reality of gun control laws seems not like an eternal downward slope to the extinction of the right, but more of a pendulum swing which went strongly in a negative direction, but which is correcting as society faces reality and a better understanding of rights.

Gun control shouldn't exist at all, IMHO, but at least we don't have to believe that we're all sliding into the abyss.

dogtown tom
June 22, 2011, 12:49 PM
Yeager
Quote:
And in many states thats a felony
Pretty soon owning a firearm period will be a felony.

Will you roll over and submit? Or will you become a felon?

One has nothing to do with the other.:banghead:

1. Owning firearms has nothing to do with carrying a concealed firearm in violation of state law.
2. A conviction for illegally carrying a firearm will prevent you from purchasing firearms in the future and in many cases will prevent any possession of firearms.
3. Your comment "pretty soon owning a firearm period will be a felony" is a terrifying statement, but grounded in paranoia- not fact. We enjoy MORE firearm freedoms now than any other time in the last forty years. Were you not paying attention when Heller came down?
5. Will I "roll over and submit?" Hell no. I vote, I donate to 2nd Amendment causes and I actively lobby my state legislators on firearms rights. While it may make you feel like an internet tough guy regarding gun rights you are completely ignorant of what it means to be a law abiding American. Don't like a law? Fight to change it. Of course it's way easier to just ignore it or advocate a Red Dawn response.

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