[Michael_2112]

Hello Everyone,

Wow, this is like TFL continued...fantastic. Well this is my first post over here, and certainly not my last.

I'm in the market for a new warm weather CCW pistol. I was fortunate enough to get to a range that rented pistols and I got to try out three compact .45’s. I tried the following: Glock 36, SIG P245, Para 7.45 LDA.

My main concern is size, and being able to comfortably conceal whichever I decide to purchase. Since, I am currently carrying a full-size any of these would be an improvement with regards to size and weight.

The three above-mentioned pistols were all fine shooters. I would really have to get used to the Glock trigger, but besides that the Glock performed well, and seems as though it would be the easiest to conceal, as well as being the most comfortable to carry all day long. The Para LDA, was a really sweet shooter, and has a fantastic trigger. The only downside is that it is the heaviest of the three, as well as the most expensive. The P245, while not the smallest, but not the heaviest, was a great shooter as well, DA/SA pulls were excellent IMHO. I think I have it narrowed down to these three, so of the three which would you pick and why?

The wildcard: I am also considering the (Sig) Mauser M2, though I have not had the opportunity to try it out yet. Can anyone comment on this pistol? Good? Bad? Impartial? Not really sure on the overall size either.

Any other options I should consider?

Thank you all for your time, and I appreciate your input ,

~Michael

[Zundfolge]

The wildcard: I am also considering the (Sig) Mauser M2, though I have not had the opportunity to try it out yet. Can anyone comment on this pistol? Good? Bad? Impartial? Not really sure on the overall size either.

My brother has a Mauser M2. Its a good shooter, accurate and dependable (if you keep it clean). But it is NOT a CCW gun ... its way too fat for that.

I would say it would be slightly easier to conceal then a full size Beretta 92F.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Christ Michael, why can't you look at a Beretta? I have two compacts (Type M) and they're beautiful and very concealable. Even the compact L is a great choice. Does it HAVE to be a .45? The mini-Cougar might be an option for you. Check it out at www.berettausa.com

The only other I'd look at is the H&K -- another gun you haven't considered. :rolleyes:

[Betty]

Michael_2112,
How do you intend to conceal your pistol (IWB?), and what kind of wardrobe do you intend to wear with it?

I'm a very small frame person, but even in the summertime I can conceal my USPc in the 4-5 o'clock position in a bellyband. I can also conceal the G36 and used to carry a Para C6.45. I find the G36 a runt sized "chunky gun" and it doesn't fit my hands very well.

I've never fired the Mauser M2; the unusual placement of the manual safety as enough to turn me off.

[Michael_2112]

Hey thanks for the quick replies.

Zundfolge,
I kinda figured the M2 wouldnt be that great of an option for CCW. But figured I would look for some insight on the pistol anyways.

Mastrogiacomo,
I already own a 92fs, and agree that the Beretta is a beautiful pistol. Also, my brother has the HK USP-C, another great gun. So I have considered it as well. Yeah I want a .45 this time around.


So thanks for the replies,

~Michael

[Michael_2112]

Hey runt,

Thanks for the reply. I'm more of a jeans and t-shirt (w/ overshirt) kind of guy. I'm looking to go IWB. I currently carry my CZ 75b which isnt really a problem concealing for the most part. Its just big and heavy.

The G36 seems to fit my hand really well. I really just would have to get used to the Glock trigger.

Yeah I have no idea, why they would put the safety of the M2 on the rear like that. Really strange.


~Michael

[Limited10Tom]

I finagled an STI Ranger for Christmas. I have only fired about 100 rounds so far, but I love it more with each shot. Very accurate, totally reliable, gentle recoil, excellent trigger, and a beautiful 1911 as well. Only problem is limited choice of short mags. My Wilson Combat mags work great but stick out of the bottom.

[hksw]

Had an M2 for a few months. The gun shot very well. Very low recoil for a 'compact' .45ACP, lowest I've experienced a the time. IMO, the very fat and curve grip had a lot to do with the felt recoil, helped spread it out more in my hand. As mentioned it was very wide.

Average accuracy for me. The things I didn't like were the extra lever that had to be thrown to disassemble, long trigger pull, safety located in the back (unreachable by the shooting hand), excessively wide for a 'compact', final ~1/8" if rearward travel of the slide was very heavy on my gun. Eventually traded it in.

I had bought a USPc45 recently and it is much better, IMO, than the M2 and a much more comfortable grip than the Glock G36 (have never shot one of those though). A bit tall and long for a compact but it would be my first choice for a .45ACP CCW. If OH ever passes the right law that is.

I've had a Glock G34 for awhile now. It is a very accurate gun (if I take my time) and reliable. But, like you, with almost 2 years with it, I'm still trying to get accustom to the trigger. I'm not able to shoot the gun rapidly with the same accuracy I can get with my regular SA/DA guns.

[Forseti]

With the .45 restriction: for weight, size, and firepower the Taurus Millenium PT-145 and the Kimber Ultra Ten II are some of the smallest. lightest .45's you can get.

I bought a PT-145 stainless for around $365. A Kimber will probably cost roughly twice that.

I have been VERY pleased with the PT-145. You can search here and on www.thefiringline.com for posts relating to this. The PT-145 got bad press early on for cracks in the plastic frame. This has been fixed for guns manufactured late 2002 (according to Taurus). And they offer a lifetime guarantee if something does happen. The cracks in the plastic did not affect the gun's ability to fire, since the slide rests on metal rails embedded in the grip. The gun had other features that I really liked as well, and I have not been disappointed.

At the SHot SHow in 2003 in Orlando, Taurus plans to introduce the Millenium Pro, which should be a further enhancement to the PT-145. No pics yet. So you should wait one month anyway to see all the new stuff that is going to be introduced by all manufacturers.

The Kimber:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/_images/15.3-Ultra-Ten-II.jpg

The PT-145:
http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2002-08-25/wolf63_1030743651_145-2.jpg

[10-Ring]

I have a Glock 36. It's a fine performer, but if I were to do it again, I'd go w/ the USPc 45. When my hands can take a fully, comfy grip on a gun, it goes a long way vs. trying to get used to a digit dangling off or curling underneath the grip.

[MitchSchaft]

Get a Colt Defender.

http://home.midsouth.rr.com/schaftlfam/pics/Misc/defndr.JPG

[Mark IV Series 80]

Got the G36. It works every time.

Many of the *chopped-down-to-3-inch* 1911-types are not reliable.

If you think that you need a safety, you can get one of these:

http://dillonprecision.com/content/image/200/i_0115.jpg

[MitchSchaft]

Many of the *chopped-down-to-3-inch* 1911-types are not reliable.

What is your basis for this statement? Got any facts to back it up?



I did not think so. :neener:

[McKamie]

Michael_2112:

If you like the P245, take a look at the S&W CS45 before you buy. I went through exactly what you're going through last year, asking the same questions, and settled on the same three guns. Then I got a chance to shoot the CS45 and it changed my mind. Especially as a carry weapon.

You can go to www.smith-wessonforum.com and search on CS45 for several threads on the CS45. Give it a look.

Mac

[bad_dad_brad]

I have no problems with the Glock trigger, in fact, I prefer it over most other semi-auto pistols, and I really can't understand why some SA conditioned people don't like them, perhaps it is that take up that they object to. So, and I have looked at them, if I were going for a concealed .45, it would be a G36 for sure.

[nemesis]

I was seduced!

I never planned on carrying a 45 but the Para C7.45 LDA has the sweetest trigger in the world. Combine that with being amongst the slimmest guns built and you'll find that it conceals very well.

The weight? I don't really notice it except when firing +P loads because the mass damps the recoil to a bare minimum.

I like Sigs a lot and own a couple which are superb shooters but they are not as well suited for concealed carry as the Para.

[shooting4fun]

G'day Michael_2112, and et al.,

For what it is worth, my choice was the Springfield Armory Micro Compact. It was a bit pricy as an investment. Now that I've had it a bit, with over 6k rounds successfully launched, it was worth it. It handles both causual monthly pistol match duties to the more serious ones for personal protection.

The alloy frame appears to be holding up fine. As 45 acp, 1911 style, short barreled pistols goes, it is pretty easy to hold/carry. Accuracy is good enough to show off with. [2' x 2' steel plate at 100 yds, on demand, off hand, right after a pistol match at the rifle range with a bunch of non-believers as an audience] Good fun!

My experience when shopping about. Find a good reputable dealer that stocks the ones you're interested in. Spend some time and handle them. Better yet, find a rental shop and shoot them. A good friend of mine was very interested in a small 1911 style. He shot mine and decided for his own reasons that it wasn't for him.

The small ones handle & carry very nice. However, shooting them may be more than some care for. Especially with the lighter alloy frames. Since I shoot so much, the spirited recoil from the small packages is no big issue.

Ported pistols are another thing. That is for another discussion. I wish you good luck in your search. Take your time and shop wisely. Cheers!

[ruger357]

I like my Kimber Ultra Carry.

[Mark IV Series 80]

What is your basis for this statement? Got any facts to back it up?
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26695&highlight=which+configuration

[Mastrogiacomo]

Sounds like you have access to great guns. :) Still, if you've got Berettas, you should know how good the quality is and why not consider a Cougar? If not an H&K is still my second recommendation. You've used it enough to appreciate it, yes? If these are two guns are out the window, a Colt has always had appeal for me but still, I keep coming back to the Beretta Cougar for something that won't break the bank and function flawlessly. But if money isn't a concern, power to you. :cool:

[Michael_2112]

Once again thanks for the replies I appreciate it.

Mastro,
I'm going to give the 8045 a shot. I have yet to shoot that model. Hopefully I can get to a range that has one I can rent. Like I said I already have the 92fs, and certainly agree with you 100% that Beretta makes a fantastic pistol. To be honest I kinda wish they made the 9000s ( I know you either love em or hate em) in a .45, because that would be a pretty sweet package. Money is also always a concern, so the price is a big factor for me as well. Price is really the only thing stopping me from running out today and getting the Para 6 or 7.45. I certainly do appreciate your input.

Shooting4fun,
I havent actually got to look at the Springfield Micro as of yet. However, I have been able to shoot a Springfield champion, and it was truely a great pistol. I also have an xd-9 and xd-40. What would be a fair price for a loaded model Micro or Commander sized Springfield?

bad_dad_brad,
I don't think anything is wrong with the glock trigger. I am just not used to it thats all. I'm sure with a lot of range time the trigger won't seem as foreign to me.

McKamie,
The CS45 is a pistol I think I would like to look into. I have yet to shoot the Chief Special line of pistols. The problem is not too many around locally.

Mark IV Series,
I have no issues with the Glock safety. My finger never makes it's way into the trigger guard or near the trigger unless I'm ready to fire. I think its just that simple with the Glock as with any firearm. Which is why I don't understand why so many ND's take place with the Glock?

Forseti,
How is Taurus with regards to customer service, and taking care of problems if they should arise? I'm glad they got the whole frame issue taken care of. I have read countless posts regarding it. The Taurus certainly has price on its side. My main concern are the two issues listed above.

Limited10tom,
Thats some finagaling sir. The STI also might be an option. The ony problem is availability locally.


So once again, thanks to everyone who replied. I am just really trying to do my research with this purchase. I must admit sometimes, I am an inpulse buyer and don't get what is actually right for me. I'm tying to avoid this from happening this time around.

I certainly welcome more responses,

~Michael

[Forseti]

In answer to your post question: "How is Taurus with regards to customer service, and taking care of problems if they should arise?"

Best way to do a dry run on Taurus cust service...call them. Tell them you are a potential customer, and ask about the procedure they follow to solve a problem. Ask them any reasonable question you want in a reasonable timeframe. Get a personal, first hand feel for the department you would be dealing with...

Info on their warranty is here:
http://www.taurususa.com/warranty1.html

Their phone number is 305-624-1115

You could ask them about the soon-to-arrive Millenium Pro in .45, and when they will post specs on their website (they still haven't updated it yet, said it would be end of the month...and we are close to that point). I believe the gun is still "officially" unannounced, despite a small amount of info being published in American Rifleman.

And again, nothing matches the two weapons I mentioned for size, weight, and firepower. Glock 36 comes close, but is a bit longer with fewer rounds...and I just don't like that accidental discharge risk...

[GeorgeH]

I have a Springfield Compact V10, an early one before Springfield put all the goodies on it.

I'm looking at a Glock 30 or 36.

[Alan Fud]

Consider the Para-Ordnance C7.45LDA or even the smaller C6.45LDA -- about as small as a .45 as you can get ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f90.jpg

http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/port2-jj.jpg (http://www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com/) » www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com (http://www.FamilyFriendsFirearms.com) «
Alan Fud: Share What You Know & Learn What You Don't.

[George Hill]

Other guns to consider that are not mentioned above:

Star .45 FIRESTAR
Charles Daly DDA
Beretta Mini Couger
Detonics Combat Master

There are others out there too... but these guns are most worthy of consideration.

[10-Ring]

Don't forget to post which one you ended up w/ and if you followed the advice you got here ;)

[Skunkabilly]

http://www.skunkabilly.com/images/usp45c_vm2.jpg

You want it?

[10-Ring]

GUN PORN!!! I dig that pic alot!!

[Forseti]

Don't discount weight. Many of the smaller "all metal" .45s posted are fairly heavy. Turns out weight means more that you think for summer carry, as you mentioned in the beginning of this post.

[Humble Texan]

As posted before, I do not know of any other ccw that has all the features of the PT145. I carry it daily. Fixed the crack pistol grip within 4 weeks, so no complaints. Never gone down. Has feed everything and believe it or not, the trigger has gotten pretty smooth, not that I care. Has about 2000 rounds through it. Shoot my USP for fun, carry the Taurus.

[MitchSchaft]

What is your basis for this statement? Got any facts to back it up?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.1911forum.com/forums/sho...h+configuration


Those aren't facts, man :neener:

Don't discount weight. Many of the smaller "all metal" .45s posted are fairly heavy
Mine is something around 21oz. I don't know if that's considered heavy. That only part that is remotely heavy is the slide. When you take it apart, the frame is light as a feather.

[Forseti]

The Colt Defender DOES seem to have some nice specs on weight. Not so nice on price, however...what was the "street" price? The lower frame must be aluminum, right?

I just never could feel comfortable carrying a 1911 design with a round in the chamber and the hammer back. Just me...I know others swear by it. When carrying, I prefer the stiffer, longer trigger pull of the PT-145.

[MitchSchaft]

Yeah, the price is pretty steep. I got mine NIB for $750 and that was after paying only 10% above cost. I think the frame is an aluminum alloy. I carry mine C&L all the time.

[shooting4fun]

G'day Michael_2112, and et al.,

Regarding a fair price for the SA MC. You'll need to do your homework. This is due to the economy and several other variables. I would encourage you to shop smart. It is very nice as it comes from the factory. Best of luck to ya!

Cheers!

[HadEmAll]

You might consider taking a look at the S&W 457. 7+1 and slim. Mine's fed 165, 185, 200+P and 230 grain rounds without fail.

[Kahr carrier]

I second the Kimber Ultra carry,but Series 1 if you can find one.:)

[Kahr carrier]

But the Sig P245 is nice also.:)

[DonGlock26]

P245-shoots like a P220 and carries like a P239.

[vlazlow]

I've been very happy w/ my Glock 30. Carry it every day in a comp-tac shirt tucker. Very nice set up.:)

[XLMiguel]

I've been real happy with my Kimber Ultra Carry. Added Ashley Big Dot Express sights, very fast on target, eminently reliable, eats everything (7+1), more than combat accurate.

[veloce851]

Michael_2112

I own a Mauser M2 by Sigarms. (The one Zundfolge mentioned)
Although its not the best choice for CCW (too fat)
It is an excellent made weapon.
So far I've put about 300 rounds through mine.. and have only had problems when I used Wolf ammo... I think the finish heated up a bit and cause a couple jams... when I went back to brass.. it worked flawlessly.

I paid $380 + shipping for mine. Seems like the pistol never took off, so you can probably find one in the $350 range.

If a CCW weapon is what you want I'd look at others instead. But if you want a fairly compact and solid .45ACP for your collection. I think you'd be happy with it.

[ctc]

I'll add another voice for the Colt Defender. I got one after carrying a Beretta Mini Cougar for several years. The cougar is a nice shooter but it was too thick and the weight would drag on me at the end of the day. I gave up 1 round and went from a .40 to a .45. Plus with the single stack mags I now regularly carry a spare; so in reality I went from 9 rounds of .40 to 15 rounds of .45 :p .

The prices do seem to have climbed since i found mine ( $560 a year and a half ago - less shipping and FFL transfer). The stock wraparound Hogue grips are not made for CCW - but the grip is the same size as an Officers so there are plenty of choices for carry grips.

-- Chuck

[Smoke]

OK, since you liked the Para LDA (me too...)

Consider the comporable single actions:

Kimber Ultra Carry
Springfield Ultra
Other clones......etc.

[norielX]

I'm a 1911 shooter by birth, but when I got my G21, it only took me a few minutes to get used to the trigger! I guess it takes buying one of your own. I like the G30 because it can take the G21 mags. I wouldn't be able to take anything happening to my 1911's, but beating up my Glock doesn't even bother me.

Getting used to the glock trigger wasn't a big problem at all. I shoot a tuned 1911 at the range with a light trigger, but I have no problem switching over to the glock while hitting steel plates.

[cmsgt]

I am considering a 45 also after I sell my Glock 27; and I'm seriously looking at the Sig 245. I like the German engineering particularly when it comes to dissassembly/assembly. It goes well with my Sig P220ST. Plus I prefer its operating system of having a hammer drop and no external safety. Further one can get them with night sights.

[Michael_2112]

Thanks everyone for so many great suggestions!

Well I have just returned recently from Montreal. Sorry I have not been back around on this thread in a little while. Is it really sick that I couldnt wait to get home and be able to carry again?

I'm hoping to make a decision really soon as to what to pick. As for now, my CZ 75b is doing the job well. A few gun shows coming up really soon, and my birthday in March (fiancee has a great idea for a birthday gift.) :D

I like the Sig 245 a lot, the Glock 36 is nice as well. Hmmmmm, but I really love the feel of a commander sized 1911. Just curious, but do any other handguns have the same grip angle, and grip feel of the 1911, just not a 1911? I guess, the answer is.....yeah the 1911!


Anyways, thanks for the responses,

~Michael

[MitchSchaft]

ctc,
The Defender will hold full size, 8-round mags. I tried it this past weekend with regular Colt mags and they did fine.

[xring]

I vote for this.

r

[M1911]

I have no problems with the Glock trigger, in fact, I prefer it over most other semi-auto pistols, and I really can't understand why some SA conditioned people don't like them, perhaps it is that take up that they object to.I'm one of them. I really dislike the Glock trigger. What I dislike about it is the mushy creep and the plasticky "sproing" I feel when the trigger finally breaks. The take up is not a big deal.

A good 1911 has a relatively short take up. Then the trigger basically stops until you increase the pressure enough to trip the sear. After that, you have relatively little overtravel. The breaking of a good trigger has been described as feeling like you are breaking a glass rod.

The Glock trigger does not have that crispness. Instead, it has a bunch of mushy creep after you are through the take-up.

Don't get me wrong, Glocks are good guns. My first gun was a Glock and I own two. They're relatively inexpensive, reliable, and have an outstanding finish. I just don't like them much. YMMV.

[.45Ruger]

If that's not in your budget like most of us get the one that you are most comfortable with because it is you and only you who has to carry and shoot your gun. If you decide on the 1911 you will like it. I have a Springfield Ultra Compact. It's easy to conceal because of its size but it is a bit heavy. Good luck and Good shooting.:)

[HankL]

I considered this old friend a truck gun for years.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid18/p1b90ecbfb091f72a33d9ab00c6d49727/fdcb1318.jpg

Colt Officer's Stainless is going to visit Tim Brian. Let's see if what comes back is a good option for a compact 45 :)

[Charles S]

I will second the coment to take a look at the S&W CS45. If the grip fits you it will be a very reliable and good concealed carry gun.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=91487

I really like mine.

Charles