[Rittmeister]

I know I'm not at all well-known around here but I thought this might interest some of you.

Cliff's Notes of the situation: I own a full-size Kimber 1911. I have always wanted a GI-pattern 1911 and RIA caught my interest. I've yet to get one (lots of reasons) but I've kept my eye on things. When I heard about the RIA with the light rail, I wondered whether they'd be willing to make some other variations on the 1911 theme - that is, other than the standard size, Officer, Compact, etc.

I started a thread on m1911.org wondering if RIA would build a CCO-pattern 1911. An Officer-sized frame with a Commander-length slide. I've always thought the CCO had a more proportionate appearance than a Commander or Officer; it doesn't have the potential reliability issues of the Officer-length slide, but it still has the shortened grip of the Officer model which makes for easier concealment. I thought since RIA makes an Officer-sized gun and a near-Commander sized gun it would be a no-brainer to Frankenstein together the necessary parts and charge about what they do already for most of their guns - that is, $400 to $450 or so.

I have wanted a CCO for the longest time but it's been outside my budget. Sig, S&W, and a few others make one around $800-$1000, and of course Fusion and the other custom houses will build them but they're $1500 and up. I just can't afford it with my other responsibilities.

So, I started the above thread about the possibility of an RIA CCO. Therein, a member advised me to email Ivan at Advanced Tactical just to sort of put my vote in. I did so. He didn't email me back with any pronouncements about a future RIA CCO model. Instead, he simply advised me to get in touch with Arnel in the shop and ask if he would build me one.

So I did. And he said "yeah, I can do that."

It took a number of weeks but we finally settled on a plan and a price, and I now have it in hand. This is built on the CS/Officer's-sized frame, with an MS length slide. It's not a true Commander size since it's 4-inch instead of 4.25-inch, and it's got the bushingless bull barrel, but I don't really care honestly. As you can see it has the upswept grip safety, combat hammer, standard thumb safety, and GI-type sights. Arnel tuned it to work with hollowpoints and generally slicked it up so it'll work well. The trigger pull feels just about like my Kimber so I'm happy there too.

I got a few Metalform flush-fit mags for it so that's what's pictured. I hope to get to the range next week.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4645.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4650.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4649.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4648.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4647.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4646.jpg

Future plans include grip tape, possible extended slide release, possible sight upgrade, and a bunch of ammo.

I'm not going to divulge the price here but I will say that it wasn't too much more than a Tactical model, and it's a heckuva lot less than a Kimber/S&W/Fusion etc. Considering that it's tuned for reliability I'm pretty happy with the way it worked out.

Comments appreciated.

[jeffmack]

That's really pretty, dude.

[Zundfolge]

I look forward to a complete range report.


I happen to agree that the CCO size 1911 is pretty much the optimum size for a concealed carry 1911 (now if only it were in 10mm).


What I've never understood is the Champion (government length grip with a commander slide) ... lots of European companies make "compact" versions of their guns with short slides and long grips.

Its the grip length that makes the pistol harder to conceal ... might as well carry a Government model (or otherwise full size gun) than a Champion or XD 3.8 or Steyr C or other short slide, long grip piece.

[WC145]

Wow, that's great, a very cool one of a kind gun for you at what appears to have been a very reasonable price and another testimony to RIA terrific customer service. I'm actually really surprised they built a one off piece like that, I'm impressed they took the time and went out of their way like that. I'm also a fan of CCO size guns, I'll be looking forward to your range report!!

[InkEd]

The reason for the full size grip/shorter barrel combination is comfort.

Some people find a full 5" barrel just a little long for comfortable all day carry. (Digs into your leg when sitting down for example.) However, they still want the full size grip and capacity.

[Big Mike]

WOW. When I hear a company response like this I usually start buying from them. I too always liked the CCO. As you start putting rounds down range, let us know how she does!

[Rittmeister]

I'm not sure if this is the only one around. Arnel gave me the idea he'd built a few others. I could be wrong, and in any case this won't have any real collector value. The frame isn't perfect - it was a demo model for a while and has a few blemishes - and of course I plan to shoot the heck out of it ;)

I'll be back when I have put some rounds through it.

[boondockcrain]

Wow, Arnel might have opened a can of worms. I like it

[harmon rabb]

if you dont mind, what did that run you?

[bigfatdave]

Rittmeister, that is awesome!
I'm looking at pictures of almost exactly the gun I've been wanting, upgrade the sights a bit and it would be perfect.

Can you give more contact details and how you got the exact gun you wanted to a FFL in your area? And wait time? This might be the thing to do next time I have an overtime windfall at work ... I'd actually save money comapred to another carry gun because I already have holster/mags/mag carrier/ammo/etc on hand.

[colt1911fan]

I'm with harmon robb how much did it run you and woulds you give out the e-mail information I want one :cool:

[harmon rabb]

I'm with harmon robb how much did it run you and woulds you give out the e-mail information I want one

Amen. I have a RIA Tactical that is shockingly good for the price. I've always wanted a CCO, and would buy a RIA CCO if it was reasonably priced (and being a RIA, how could it not be?)

[bigfatdave]

I assume Rittmeister is out blasting with his new gun on a lovely Saturday afternoon.

So I won't pester him for more pictures, (field stripped, please?) or more contact info, or to share the price, or anything like that.

I WILL mention that I'll bring the ammo and open up the range if he's in NW Ohio and wants to hit up my conservation club's range ... Heck, I'll bring reactive targets, too!

[Rittmeister]

Actually, Rittmeister is stuck on infant patrol. May not get to the range until next weekend.

I'll try to get some pics field-stripped. Not sure why you guys want them but I'll see what I can do in the next day or so.

For contact - best to call Advanced Tactical directly, 775-537-1444. Ask for Ivan or Arnel. AT is the importer for RIA and they also handle all customer service stuff. I believe Ivan is a manager and Arnel is one of the smiths.

Price - I'm still a bit reluctant to talk about that. As I mentioned the frame is used so it might price higher with a new frame. I think for those interested it would be best to contact AT and see what they say.

[straitnate14]

Very nice I love the size of that. Is that pretty much this gun with a beaver tail? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/876/products_id/411545185

[hAkron]

Thats a really nice looking gun!

[KAS1981]

Very nice I love the size of that. Is that pretty much this gun with a beaver tail? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/876/products_id/411545185
Negative. Rittmeister's has a slightly shorter barrel and a shorter grip.

[bigfatdave]

Did the used frame come from you or RIA?
And the field-strip pix are to satisfy my curiosity about the similarities between your almost-CCO and my Citadel compact, I rather like the simplicity of the bushingless bull barrel, for some reason.

If you don't want to advertise the price, I understand, particularly as you seem to have snagged the frame for cheap.

[devildog4329]

I would buy one today if my wife would let me. I love the look of that pistol. I have a tactical governmanet model and love it. I have been looking at the 9mm tactical model to add to the collection but would be interested in seeing if they could work a CCO into a 9mm config.

Thanks so much for the post, info, and pics.

[Rittmeister]

BFD - I thought I stated this somewhere above but the frame had been a demo model before it came to me, so while it hadn't been sold it was technically used. I assume a brand-new frame would end up with a higher price. All other parts were new AFAIK.

devildog - I asked Arnel about building this in 9mm and at the time it was not possible. I don't fully understand the reason but there you go. Perhaps in the future it will be.

[bigfatdave]

BFD - I thought I stated this somewhere above but the frame had been a demo model before it came to me, so while it hadn't been sold it was technically used. I caught that, I wasn't sure if YOU supplied it or RIA supplied it.

[Rittmeister]

Gotcha. I supplied no parts - everything came from AT.

[Rittmeister]

Fieldstrip pics, as requested:


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4670.jpghttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4673.jpg

Polished barrel hood
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4671.jpg

Polished feed ramp
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4672.jpg

Extractor and ejector were also tuned. Need to find my grip tape, I have no idea where it is.

[bigfatdave]

Thank you!
That confirms my suspicions, it looks very much like a stretched-out version of my Citadel compact.

Which makes me want one even more.

[Rittmeister]

I thought RIA and Citadel were the same factory? Which would make sense then...

I confess I don't like needing a paper clip to strip this thing down but maybe it'll loosen up a bit after it's been broken in.

[bigfatdave]

I just do mine under tension, retract slide to the cutout, pop the slide latch lever out, and let everything come apart.

Citadel/RIA are both made in the P.I. by Armscor, but RIA has their importer (AT) and Citadel comes in through Legacy Sports. I don't know the level of fluff&buff the importers apply when the guns hit the shore, your experience implies that RIA gets quite a bit of attention on this end, which is interesting.

[ants]

Ivan Walcott personally helped me with purchases,
and made me a deal when I needed it.

I give high marks to Advanced Tactical.




Full length guide rod:
I do the paper clip thing, easier on these old pre-arthritic hands.
Two-piece full length guide rod is so much easier.
But the plain old GI guide rod is the absolute best thing going.

[devildog4329]

Rittmeister, Thanks for the info on the 9mm. I guess i will have to wait a while and then contact them. In the meantime i will spend my money on other projects. Thanks again.

[Rittmeister]

Range report!

Finally got out today. Did most of my shooting from 7-10 yards, a mixture of WWB, Federal, Blazer aluminum, and some Remington 230gr JHP to test out the tuning Arnel did. I used three Metalform 7-round mags I got from CDNN. Fired maybe 70 rounds total.

All of the ball ammo fed flawlessly. The JHP hung up the last round in two of the magazines but not the third, which makes me think it's a combination of the mags being new and the gun being new. I don't often shoot JHP so I'm not too concerned yet; I'll try some more after a couple hundred more rounds of FMJ.

This was my first experience with a compact 1911 so I was constantly comparing it to a Govt size. The recoil didn't feel much more potent but the muzzle flip was a bit more pronounced - it was not at all unpleasant. Muzzle flash and noise were both quite a bit more than I'm used to.

At 10 yards I was getting my shots into about a nine-inch circle. I was not going super slow as you pay by the hour at this range :( and I feel I could do better if I took my time. However, I was grouping to the left of POA, which I do NOT do with any of my other pistols. I am undecided as to whether I will try it one more time to see if it's me or just whack the rear sight with a drift and see if I can correct it. Option three would be to have the sights replaced; I was hoping I'd get along better with these GI-type sights than I did, and I think a set of 3-dots may be in order, as my eyes just have a hard time with the small sights.

[jdub3]

That is VERY cool. Do want one.

[rich642z]

I shoot fmjs in all of my 1911s.

[smalls]

This is definitely awesome. I may have found my Christmas present to myself this year. Eagerly awaiting range reports.

[Rittmeister]

Range report is a few posts back.

[bigfatdave]

Rittmeister, I've been waffling on getting RIA in gear to make me one, do you have a longer-term report?
Still enjoying your CCO?

Thanks

[Rittmeister]

Still liking it, but jonesing for a true 4.25" Commander-length upper with barrel bushing etc. I don't get along with the small GI-type sights, so something will be in the works.

I've only had it out another time or two; having a 1-year-old cuts down quite a lot on my range visits :(

[bigfatdave]

thanks for the update - I understand the desire for more noticeable sights

[bigfatdave]

Finally had the time to talk to the receiving FFL, and realized that RIA was a timezone back, so I called them up fully intending to make an order for a copy of your fine little machine, Rittmeister
Had card in hand, money to burn, and a list of features desired ... got an answer at RIA and was informed that:
"Mr Arnel is at our facility in the Phillipines, and won't be back in the shop until early/mid January"
...
I was polite until the end of the conversation, and then a slew of non-high-road phrases were uttered, mostly at myself for waiting sop long to get the order in.

So ... since I get the chance to mull over my list a bit ... anyone want to point out something I missed or something RIA can't/won't do on a custom order?

~Off Frame
~4" Barrel and matching slide
~Night Sights if possible (3-dot if no night sights)
~Grips/Magazines not particularly important, I have that covered already
~DO NOT want extended levers
~DO WANT:
--Beavertail grip safety
--Skeletonized trigger
--Combat hammer
--Flat MSH
--Spare recoil spring (wish I had one for my Citadel, it will need one in the long run)
--Set up to feed HP ammo

...
Also, Rittmeister, how long was your wait after ordering?

[Rittmeister]

In bold:

~Off Frame
~4" Barrel and matching slide
~Night Sights if possible (3-dot if no night sights) - the MS slide came with GI sights. I assume they could do this but it would cost extra.
~Grips/Magazines not particularly important, I have that covered already
~DO NOT want extended levers - the Officer's frame they sold me came with GI-type levers, as in the pictures I posted.
~DO WANT:
--Beavertail grip safety - included on the frame.
--Skeletonized trigger - might be extra.
--Combat hammer - included on the frame.
--Flat MSH - included on the frame.
--Spare recoil spring (wish I had one for my Citadel, it will need one in the long run)
--Set up to feed HP ammo - Arnel did the reliability job on mine when he assembled it and it runs great with all the ammo I've tried. No, I can't remember it all but it's been a mix of FMJ and JHP.

...
Also, Rittmeister, how long was your wait after ordering? - having trouble remembering but I want to say it was 2-3 weeks until I actually had the gun in my possession.

Hope that helps...

[bigfatdave]

Hope that helps...it does, thanks!

I'm anticipating a price somewhere in the neighborhood of:
galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=51417
galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=51429
galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=51482-ARM
That's a spread from $520 to $780 - hopefully it will be somewhere in the lower end, but adding night sights might push it up a good bit ... we'll have to see, I doubt they have another spare demo frame knocking around to use, but I can always hope!

Now, the waiting ... ...

[kyletx1911]

I own 3 rocks tac, gi , and the 4in when i got the 4in used,
It had 1000 rds in it, i ran another 5k in it, i started having a few fte, sent in tuned up now running like a scalded dog.

Arnel was busy so my man shawn took great care of me!!!!!. Call him he is on his beam. My poa and poi. Belongs to the sights going to change them

[ErikO]

RIA/Armscor are very high up on my list of companies to buy from. My next purcahse will be a 5" Tactical, but this little guy looks awesome as well.

Here's hoping that after a few folks placing custom orders they decide to release this one as a new model.

[bigfatdave]

That would be nice, I'll probably post up prices if I get a custom-shop type invoice with the thing, and RIA doesn't mind me sharing.

[bigfatdave]

Rittmeister:
Had a quick question about dealing with Mr Arnel and RIA - please check your PM box

Thanks!

BFD

[Rittmeister]

Dragging this back from the dead again. I decided to replace the small GI-style sights with Novak 3-dot LoMount sights. I haven't had it to the range yet (just got it back today) but I'm quite pleased with the look, and the sight picture is a thousand times better for my eyes.

Before:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_4646.jpg

After:

(washed-out flash pic)
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_5476.jpg

no flash:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c88/kwstine1/IMG_5479.jpg

[Arp32]

Very nice. If you ever want to sell it...

[bigfatdave]

Looks good - in fact those sights look better than the ones I have mounted on my Arnel special

Look forward to your range report

[Rittmeister]

Range report - all systems go! Sights are dead on, and at 10 yards shooting offhand (two-handed) it groups ever so slightly larger than my 5" Kimber, which is pretty much what I figured.

All in all, it took a while but I'm now VERY pleased with this pistol. Don't hesitate to contact Ivan or Arnel at AT if you want one - but do yourself a favor, have them give you better sights than the little GI sights!

[bigfatdave]

great news!

If enough people get a "CCOish" special made, RIA might even put the gun into production as a normal model - I may even ask about on their FB page (see, FB is good for something other than middle-aged ladies playing farmville)

[Rittmeister]

Now that I've got the gun sorted (mostly), I have a question - is it possible to convert a gun like this, with a bull barrel, to a GI-type guide rod and spring plug? A reverse-GI spring plug, I guess?