Really Really stuck cases. .32H&R/Fed Ammo


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tango2echo
June 25, 2011, 01:41 AM
Was shooting the SP101 .32h&r this morning with a box of Federal 100gr JHP that have been on the shelf for 10-12 years.

Fired a few cylinders of various handloads and Win factory ammo with no issues. Went in the house for 10-15 minutes to grab a coke out of the fridge. Temp was mid 90's. Gun was luke warm to the touch but not hot and was not left in the sun.

Loaded a fresh cylinder from the "new" box of Fed 100JHP and fired five rounds. Felt completely normal recoil wise. Went to unload and the cases were stuck. Took the gun in the house and after an hour tried to unload the spent cases. They were stuck so solidly I needed a brass punch and mallet to extract them. :fire:

On inspection the gun appears normal and the brass appears normal. Chambers are clean, no carbon ring. Primers were flat but not what I would consider to be flow. Just normal magnum loads.

Went back out side and fired a few more Win factory loads and had no issues.

Then tried another box from the exact same lot number of the Fed ammo. Fired 1 round, everything normal. Fired 4 more, normal. Fired 5 more, normal. Then went back to the original box of Federals that were sticky. Fired 1 round and I couldn't extract the case with the extractor star, and it took serious pressure with a cleaning rod to get it out. :fire:

So I think i can say it is not the gun.

Then took the "not sticky" box of federals and the sticky box and mic'd the ammo and pulled the bullets on a few rounds to weigh the charges. The charges appear the same at 2.9grs of some type of ball powder. Everything seems in spec.

Finally tried the sticky ammo in the .327mag blackhawk and it was sticky there too. Needed a cleaning rod to firmly push out the cases. :fire:

Any ideas? At this point I will shelf that ammo or pull it down and discard it. Not going to shoot any more of it. Just would like to figure out the cause. :confused:

t2e

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gamestalker
June 25, 2011, 07:36 PM
I think it's safe to say it's not a firearm issue. Are you sure those rounds are factory and not maybe some reloads that have an unknown origin? But in that respect I have to say that the only ammunition I've ever had problems with on way more than one occasion, is factory ammunition of any brand. This is just one reason why I reload and haven't bought factory ammunition but on very rare occasion over the last 30 yrs. or so. I've yet to measure 10 factory rounds with less than 10% variance in powder charge. And most recently my Son bought some 7mm rem. mag. that he asked me to check because he had extraction issues so severe it required a mallet and brute force to get them out of his brand new 700 CDL, and out of my well seasoned 700 as well. When I checked them out, both boxes, the powder charges were so wide spread, +/- 10 grains, and the bullets were out of round from .282" to the high side of .286". Horrible and dangerous stuff! Pulled all of the remaining 35 or 36 rounds and used the brass.

Byron
June 26, 2011, 01:34 PM
Tango, could the 100 grain 32 H&R Magnums be reloads? Federal made factory ammo in 85 grain JHP and 90 grain lead. Some old data yeras ago were hot for the 32 H&R. Hornady made a 100 gr XTP and I think Speer may have made a 100 gr jacket bullet. Byron

tango2echo
June 26, 2011, 02:54 PM
I am absolutely certain these are factory loads. I bought more than a case of them from a store that was going out of business. They appear identical to the "good" box in every way. It is a 100gr JHP and I believe it is a Speer bullet.

Today I am going to measure the internal volume of the cases. I had a similar issue awhile back with some Starline brass and I am thinking the brass from the "sticky" box may be thicker than the other box, thus increasing the pressure.

t2e

unspellable
June 26, 2011, 03:23 PM
While for safety reasons, over pressure is always the first suspect with sticky cases, there are other causes. You seem to have eliminated rough or dirty chambers. Another cause you don't hear much about is a bd batch of brass. I have maybe 200 rounds of 445 SuperMag brass by PMC that will stick badly no matter how light the load. I called Dan Wesson about this and they said they had the same problem with the same brass. More recently I have 100 rounds of 44 Mag brass by Winchester that stick badly with modest loads, haven't tried really light loads yet. In both cases extraction involved a mallet and dowel.

AlabamaGene
April 4, 2012, 09:28 PM
t2e, I know this is an older thread, but I was shooting my very nice new-to-me (used) 32 H&R single six, and getting some wickedly stuck cases. The cylinder and gun are in almost like new condition (apparently not fired since being worked over and color case hardened by Turnbull by the previous owner). I was using new starline brass, which I full length sized anyway for max uniformity. I got sticky extraction at a minimum charge of Unique, and when I moved up to my next step of loads, I got one chamber so stuck I couldn't do anything about it on the firing line.

What were the problems you had with the starline brass? Internal case capacity had not occured to me...

I assumed my problem is stemming from shooting relatively soft unsized Lee tumble lube bullets (miking at .314). I slugged the cylinder throats at .313 and the grooves at .312, so I assumed that (what I thought would be relatively modest) bullet sizing was causing my pressure to spike too much.

I thought the gradual .001 tightening from cartridge to throat followed by another .001 from cylinder to barrel would not be enough to cause the 50,000+ psi I've heard could cause stuck cases, but maybe it is.

I guess I'm trying to decide if I need to try to buy a .312 lubrisizer die or different brass next. I was really hoping I had everything I needed, and thought I was getting away with something by shooting unsized bullets!!!

mnrivrat
April 4, 2012, 10:26 PM
Could be some bad brass . Not formulated or tempered correctly . :confused:

bubba15301
April 4, 2012, 10:27 PM
federal never loaded 100 grain bullets in .32 H&r mag. what winchester loads were you shooting because winchester never loaded.32h&r mag

bubba15301
April 4, 2012, 10:30 PM
Alabama gene what loads were you shooting? maybe you got some double loads of powder inthere

Boxhead
April 5, 2012, 01:24 PM
The factory Federal ammo I have shot in my Single Six's caused problems as the rim diameter was large enough to cause binding in the loading/unloading port, particularly with one of the guns. Starline brass works just fine.

AlabamaGene
April 5, 2012, 02:28 PM
Bubba, I was trying to work up some loads for accuracy, and I'm almost positive I couldn't have double charged (weighed each charge on digital scale, weighed each cast bullet and discarded those not between 89 and 90 grains, weighed completed cartridges and all were +- 1 grain of the average for each batch).

However, looking at my loads, they seem to conflict with what I'm seeing on the internet. I had loaded 3.3 grains of unique as a starting load, and the hotter load I shot was 3.8 grains. Looking at internet loading data, these seem possibly midrange-to-hot loads, with starting loads in the 2's. I must have found something in a loading manual at home that made me think those loads were a good idea... I'm thinking I should try about 3 or 3.1 grains unique and see how those hit. Still though, it seems that 3.8 grains unique in a ruger with thick cylinder webs is not out of the realm of ordinary.

Anyone have any pet 32 H&R loads for 4 5/8 revolvers? Is it a problem to shoot .314 TL bullets in a .313 throat/.312 groove revolver?

Thanks, Gene

bubba15301
April 6, 2012, 11:56 PM
try 8.0 grains of 2400 and a hardcast 98- 100gr bullet . do not use this load in an H&R or NEF .32 mag . shot this in a Ruger bisley .32 mag i was using .312 bullets and starline brass

d163
April 7, 2012, 08:17 AM
It's hard to double charge 32 mag with Unique powder. My cases are nearly at capacity with 100 grain plated hollow points. A double charge would not fit with room left for seating the bullet. I'm using Rainier bullets seated so the over all length is right on the max for 32 mag. I'm using one of M.D.Smith's recipes.

tango2echo
April 8, 2012, 04:14 PM
federal never loaded 100 grain bullets in .32 H&r mag. what winchester loads were you shooting because winchester never loaded.32h&r mag

Yes they did. I have several dozen boxes of Fed 100gr JHP's.

I have had issues with high pressures with Starline brass and the .32h&r. I like their brass, just not in the .32. Your load is under what I have been shooting and within published data. Work it up changing one variable at a time and I bet you will find the brass is the issue.

t2e

bubba15301
April 8, 2012, 06:25 PM
tango2echo - what is the product number for that federal 100 jhp .? i have been shooting .32 mag for 20 years never seen federal 100 gr jhps i think you have remanufactured ammo . i emailed federal and ask them if they ever mahe a 100 grain jhp in .32 mag . i will post their answer when i get it. please post a picture of the box of ammo with the endflap with the cartridge info on it . thank you

tango2echo
April 8, 2012, 11:16 PM
I will look when I am in the shop this week. It is Federal red and white box from the 1990's and it is 100% a 100gr JHP. It is newly mfg ammo that I ordered directly from my distributor for myself. I have shot several cases of the stuff.

I also have some Fed 85gr and 95gr JHP factory ammo for the .32H&R.

t2e

Ralph G. Briscoe
April 8, 2012, 11:37 PM
Bubba, I was trying to work up some loads for accuracy, and I'm almost positive I couldn't have double charged (weighed each charge on digital scale, weighed each cast bullet and discarded those not between 89 and 90 grains, weighed completed cartridges and all were +- 1 grain of the average for each batch).

However, looking at my loads, they seem to conflict with what I'm seeing on the internet. I had loaded 3.3 grains of unique as a starting load, and the hotter load I shot was 3.8 grains. Looking at internet loading data, these seem possibly midrange-to-hot loads, with starting loads in the 2's. I must have found something in a loading manual at home that made me think those loads were a good idea... I'm thinking I should try about 3 or 3.1 grains unique and see how those hit. Still though, it seems that 3.8 grains unique in a ruger with thick cylinder webs is not out of the realm of ordinary.

Anyone have any pet 32 H&R loads for 4 5/8 revolvers? Is it a problem to shoot .314 TL bullets in a .313 throat/.312 groove revolver?

Thanks, Gene
I don't think you're too hot with 3.8 gr Unique. I've used 4.3 gr with a 95 gr cast bullet and 4.7 with the 85 gr xtp with no problems in my 632. Those loads come from Phil Sharpe's 1937 data for the .32 Smith and Wesson so you should be well within limits in the .32 HandR, particularly in a Ruger. Keep us posted on what you find out.

bubba15301
April 9, 2012, 12:18 AM
tango2echo i worked ina gunshop then i dont remember ever seeing a federal 100 grain load . iknowthey had 85 and 95 grain loads

bubba15301
April 18, 2012, 08:46 PM
tango did you find that box

bubba15301
April 20, 2012, 04:10 PM
Federal finally emailed me back -said they never loaded a 100 gr in .32. H&R mag

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