Walther PPS: The single-stack Glock?


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Shmackey
June 26, 2011, 12:01 PM
I don't even like Glocks, but if they made a thin, single-stack 9mm Glock I would have to consider it for CCW. Before this PPS came out, I guess a Kahr P9 was the closest thing. (I have a PM9 in my pocket when I can't do IWB.)

I really wanted to like the Sig P239, but I will never be a DA/SA guy. So an ideal CCW gun to me has a consistent, light trigger, a single-stack mag with a thin grip, and an aluminum or plastic frame. (Yep, I already have that in my CCO. I can't leave well enough alone.) Simple trigger, light, thin, small (but not two-fingers small like my PM9). Time to get a PPS?

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i loves my gun
June 26, 2011, 12:11 PM
no, not the single stack glock

jame
June 26, 2011, 12:27 PM
I'm looking at them pretty hard right now, myself. Anyone know how long they've been on the market? Do they have what it takes to be a long term gun? (Market staying power?)

I've really never read a bad thing about them. It looks like this one might be my next acquisition.

Water-Man
June 26, 2011, 02:01 PM
Spend some time on WaltherForums.com

klash545
June 26, 2011, 03:08 PM
they're fine pistols,i am a walther fan definitely....but the cost of magazines keep me from buying walther guns. i like to have lots of mags and at those prices no way.

GreyCoupe
June 26, 2011, 04:11 PM
If I could suggest, your instincts are good, but there is a better carry gun from Walther.

P5.

9mm, small, accurate, concealable, comfortable. Good examples can be had for a reasonable amount, and they are fine handguns from a better era at Walther.

Br
June 26, 2011, 04:25 PM
I have a PPS 9mm, its a very nice carry gun. I like the flexibility in carrying different size magazines. 6 rounds and its pocketable, 7 rounds and its easy to hold, and an 8-round mag I keep in the pocket.

The PPS is much thinner than a P5. Its the thinness that is its greatest distinguishing asset. The PPS is about 1" thin, while the P5 is 1.3. I like the Walther P5 too, a very nice gun.


Check out http://ppstalk.com/forum/ for a dedicated forum.

SlamFire1
June 26, 2011, 06:56 PM
Walter P5

Not that thin, but not Beretta M92 fat either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/ReducedWaltherP5leftsidePA010067.jpg

chandne
June 26, 2011, 07:10 PM
I wish HK or Glock would make a single-stack slim 9 or 40. I just don't trust much else for a carry weapon. They would make a killing off something like this.

balance 740
June 26, 2011, 07:51 PM
From what I've heard, the only single stack Glock (Glock 36) doesn't seem to have the same reliability as the larger double-stack Glocks, and H&K only seems to be making weapons to win contracts, so a single stack pistol from them will probably not be coming out anytime soon.

I started liking Walther pistols at around the time I bought my P99. I see no difference in quality between my Walther P99 and my H&K P30. Thousands of rounds through it with no malfunctions that can be attributed to the pistol. Walther pistols seem to be quality pistols which use quality materials, but don't cost as much as H&K, Sig, etc. They do have some expensive mags though.

My next pistol will probably be a PPS or a PPQ.

I used to own a P5, and while it never had a malfunction and shot well in my hands, the $90 mags, and the thickness of the slide due to the falling block design made me give it up for a more modern pistol which held more rounds for it's size. I do think it is one of the most beautiful pistols around though, and I think it was a great pistol at the time it came out.

Apocalypse-Now
June 27, 2011, 03:58 AM
the main reason i don't like the pps is that the backstrap, which only "snaps" into place is also a safety. when removed, it disables the gun: no thanks.

ugaarguy
June 27, 2011, 06:03 AM
I really wanted to like the Sig P239, but I will never be a DA/SA guy. So an ideal CCW gun to me has a consistent, light trigger, a single-stack mag with a thin grip, and an aluminum or plastic frame. (Yep, I already have that in my CCO. I can't leave well enough alone.) Simple trigger, light, thin, small (but not two-fingers small like my PM9). Time to get a PPS?
Schmakey, how about a SIG P239 DAK (it's SIG's light double action trigger)? Also, if you like your CCO, and the P239 is thin enough, why not look at a Ruger SR9c? I know the SR9c is a double stack pistol, but it is thinner than a 1911 or P239. With the supplied finger extension it's a three finger gun. I'll pop the 17 rounder with frame spacer into mine & compare it length wise to one of my 1911s if that helps you.

I know exactly where you're coming from too. I've tried to like DA/SA pistols, but they just aren't for me. After feeling the nasty trigger on the early full size SR9 I'd written them off as something that wasn't for me. Then the owner at the LGS put a SR9c in my hand that he'd taken in on trade. The SR9c pistols all have the improved trigger that's now in the full size SR9 as well. I've messed with the Walther PPS too. It's a nice gun, but its blocky shape makes it feel wider in my hand than it actually is. I'd rather have a Kahr C9 or CW9 than a PPS. I know at least one Glock shooter who also has a Kel-Tec PF9. Though not quite up to Kahr standards, the PF9 has a far better trigger than the old P11. The Ruger LC9 pistols I've handled have also felt very nice, but I'll let others beta test that one.

Shmackey
June 27, 2011, 02:23 PM
Schmakey, how about a SIG P239 DAK (it's SIG's light double action trigger)? Also, if you like your CCO, and the P239 is thin enough, why not look at a Ruger SR9c? I know the SR9c is a double stack pistol, but it is thinner than a 1911 or P239. With the supplied finger extension it's a three finger gun. I'll pop the 17 rounder with frame spacer into mine & compare it length wise to one of my 1911s if that helps you.

Hmm ... It never occurred to me to check out the DAK Sigs. Is the trigger pull on those much better than the DA trigger pull on the regular 239 SAS? The one I tried was just abysmal, and this was the fancy short-reset, short trigger version. Must've been 12 pounds.

I actually thought about the SR9c the other day. If it's as thin as a 1911, it might do the trick. Realistically, I'm looking for a second small IWB carry gun that I'll be able to have the GF use when she starts carrying. It's not like I really want to displace a custom 1911 all the time. I will carry and shoot it for a couple of months just to be sure it runs right.

As a plus, the SR9c is a Ruger, so it probably costs about twelve dollars and runs like a top. :)

chez323
June 27, 2011, 02:39 PM
I've had my 9mm PPS since shortly after they came out and it's my carry gun most of the time. It's light, thin and easily carried and it's accurate to boot. I've got a 6, 7 & 8 round magazine, came with the first 2 and I bought the 8 rounder. The mag's are more expensive than other makes but all in all it would not sway my opinion away from the PPS. It's a great little carry gun, accurate and reliable!

HorseSoldier
June 27, 2011, 02:49 PM
PPS in 9mm was my daily carry as a back up before I went to a compact 1911 to go with my 1911 duty gun. Superb little gun, carried really well, ran flawlessly on duty ammo, and given the short barrel and sight radius was surprisingly accurate.

Storm
June 27, 2011, 07:15 PM
As to the PPS backstrap, it's only potentionally an issue if you make it one. Leave it alone. Forget about it. They have only caused problems when folks have futzed with them and have failed to engage them fully upwards when putting them back into place. Some PPS owners have glued them in place but I don't think that is necessary.

The PPS is a superb pistol. The safety backstrap is a shortcoming that is a non-issue if ignored.

WRGADog
June 28, 2011, 06:38 PM
I have owned my PPS 9mm since they were released. I love this gun it is easy to conceal, can be easily carried in my pocket, IWB, or OWB. The gun is extremely reliable and accurate.

Gunner442
June 28, 2011, 10:25 PM
PPS( I own a .40 S&W) easy to conceal, reliable, accurate, and a Walther. Big fan of mine, and yes I own Glocks and HKs, so I don't have tunnel vision. Worth looking at.

simonm2211
June 28, 2011, 10:56 PM
The backstrap is really a non-issue as storm says. I added a hogue grip to wrap around my 40 PPS which makes it very secure and it is substantially more comfortable to hold during long range sessions. The PPS is very thin for a pretty powerful cartridge with reasonable capacity. Maybe a Kahr competes for concealability, but not too many others are as comfortable to carry with as powerful a punch.

Shmackey
July 1, 2011, 12:13 PM
Well, it's official. I sold my PM9 and ordered a PPS for backup carry. Neither one replaces my Fusion CCO, but the PPS should be a better IWB gun for occasional pocket carry, whereas the PM9 was the opposite.

Smaug
July 1, 2011, 04:26 PM
I think it was a good choice, Schmakey.

SharpsDressedMan
July 1, 2011, 05:09 PM
A little late, but here is some more info. I regularly shoot a Walther P99, and have a Walther P5C. I do not, yet, own a PPS, but have great respect for them. After lots of going around over compact nines, I have to throw this one out for consideration, as I have acquired a nice specimen, and am very happy with the performance: It's a S&W 3914 (same as the 3913 stainless, and nicer yet in the Ladysmith version). Mine is blued, and has the sleek looks of the Ladysmith, but is not marked as such, and has the single sided safety, making it trimmer. It shoots like a dream, with a better trigger than the Walthers, and is very slim (it has Delrin grips). It is very close dimensionally to the cut down "ASP" of yesteryear, considered by many professionals of the time to be the ultimate in a compact, combat 9mm.

vaherder
July 1, 2011, 07:41 PM
Glock could never manufacture a handgun that would come close to PPS in quality, reliability and ergonomics. Sorry Glock just isnt in the same league as Walther and never will be.

Yes I own a PPS

jackpinesavages
July 1, 2011, 10:12 PM
G36 single-stack .45. 6+1 in super-slim Glocky.

Jbabbler
July 1, 2011, 10:35 PM
Had a PPS. It was more of a POS. Backstrap safety failed, gun wouldn't shoot. Slide stop spring broke, locked slide open hard in middle of shooting at range. Failure to feed on almost every magazine. Not my problem anymore.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

HorseSoldier
July 2, 2011, 03:11 AM
G36 single-stack .45. 6+1 in super-slim Glocky.

Super slim for a Glock, which is kind of like saying "not so heavy for a big girl . . ." ;)

bigfatdave
July 2, 2011, 03:47 AM
Super slim for a Glock, which is kind of like saying "not so heavy for a big girl Indeed

My PPS is actually thin, to the point that one can forget it is on (when hung from a good belt in a good holster)

And mine runs like a top, I'm sorry a few people have had issues, S&W/WaltherUSA is pretty good about making with the fixing in the few rare cases of a lemon.
Folks with problems:
was it a 9x19 or .40S&W model?
did the trouble persist with more than one magazine?
were you unable or unwilling to service it yourself?
will you sell me your "lemon PPS" for $150? (9mm only, preferably local or at least in-state)


I've never had any trouble with the backstrap schmafety, but I leave mine alone, simply releasing the striker with the trigger for cleaning, much like almost all striker-fired pistols require. If there was a model without the removeable mackstrap and an XD-style grip interlock in place of it, I'd buy one unseen.
For that matter, I've never had trouble except for a few cheapo HP rounds and a few extraction bobbles during the first 200 rounds ... I'm probably past 3000 rounds now, the gun is surprisingly enjoyable to shoot considering the size and intended use.

And no, the PPS is not a slim Glock, although it does share some internal features/concepts with the unstoppable Austrian behemoth, the ergonomics on the PPS are leaps and bounds ahead of Glock, particularly for me, as my hand won't tolerate Glock in any flavor but the PPS feels as if it were engineered for me personally and doesn't require constant effort to point at a target.

Jbabbler
July 7, 2011, 12:42 PM
Indeed

And mine runs like a top, I'm sorry a few people have had issues, S&W/WaltherUSA is pretty good about making with the fixing in the few rare cases of a lemon.
Folks with problems:
was it a 9x19 or .40S&W model?
did the trouble persist with more than one magazine?
were you unable or unwilling to service it yourself?
will you sell me your "lemon PPS" for $150? (9mm only, preferably local or at least in-state)


I've never had any trouble with the backstrap schmafety, but I leave mine alone, simply releasing the striker with the trigger for cleaning, much like almost all striker-fired pistols require. If there was a model without the removeable mackstrap and an XD-style grip interlock in place of it, I'd buy one unseen.
For that matter, I've never had trouble except for a few cheapo HP rounds and a few extraction bobbles during the first 200 rounds ... I'm probably past 3000 rounds now, the gun is surprisingly enjoyable to shoot considering the size and intended use.

And no, the PPS is not a slim Glock, although it does share some internal features/concepts with the unstoppable Austrian behemoth, the ergonomics on the PPS are leaps and bounds ahead of Glock, particularly for me, as my hand won't tolerate Glock in any flavor but the PPS feels as if it were engineered for me personally and doesn't require constant effort to point at a target.

Bigfatdave,
I my PPS is a 40 S&W. I finally decided to just send it in to S&W to see what they would do for me. I paid shipping to them. I got it back today with what appears to be a new slide even though it has the same serial number. Either they cleaned the heck out of it or they replaced it. Either way they had it for 1.5 mos but say it's fixed now. I'll beat the heck out of it an the range in the next few weeks and see how she holds up. I hope you are right and I just got a lemon the first time. If so, I will gladly come back here with my hat in my hand and retract my earlier assessment.

searcher451
July 7, 2011, 01:32 PM
Sorry to hear that, although I'd say that was far more the rare exception than the rule, jbabbler. The PPS is a high-quality, finely crafted pistol, and the customer service on it is second-to-none, IMO. It certainly deserves a good look for those looking for an accurate, dependable firearm that's easy to conceal and operate.

Jbabbler
July 7, 2011, 01:45 PM
Just looking it over now I can see where they did some work on the barrel ramp and mouth. It is much smoother to cycle than before as well. It used to kind of "drag" but now it floats like my G33. I don't know what they did but it definitely feels different already.

Effigy
July 7, 2011, 01:53 PM
Hmm ... It never occurred to me to check out the DAK Sigs. Is the trigger pull on those much better than the DA trigger pull on the regular 239 SAS? The one I tried was just abysmal, and this was the fancy short-reset, short trigger version. Must've been 12 pounds.
The double action pull on DA/SA SIGs is 10 pounds, with a 4.4 pound SA pull. The DAK models have a 6.5 pound double action pull (no SA). I haven't used the DAK personally, but I imagine it's pretty smooth. SIG makes a sweet trigger in my experience.

The weird thing with DAK is you can either let the trigger reset completely after each shot which returns it to a 6.5 lb pull, or you can let it reset partially for a 8.5 lb pull. I thing the intermediate reset was intended as a safety feature but I'm not really sure what advantage it offers. I could see it being annoying if you like to shoot fast.

bigfatdave
July 7, 2011, 01:58 PM
I've had a suspicion for a while that the fo-tay PPS is pushing the limits of what will run in that frame
My purchase of a 9x19 model was initially for other reasons (ammo sharing, an extra round, more cheap practice ammo options, more HP variety and availability, a little less snap so the Mrs could run it with confidence, etc etc)

But ever since the fo-tay guns seem a bit more likely to have trouble, I don't know if it is because there are more out there in .40, or if it correlates with the people who buy a .40 as their first pistol thinking it can "do everything" (hint, there is no such thing as an "all-purpose pistol"), or if it is just that the feed ramp in the PPS has a more favorable geometry for feeding 9x19's rounded profile rather than .40's truncated cone

Whatever the cause, I have even less reason now than I did then to purchase a fo-tay PPS - I hope yours runs as well as mine after a fix, though! Maybe they just lapped in the slide/frame fit? You could always call and ask.

red rick
July 7, 2011, 05:23 PM
One thing that is holding me back from buying one is their short warranty. That's a high priced pistol compared to other polymer pistols to just have a 1 year warranty.

If they had S&W lifetime warranty I would buy one. Still might buy one if I find one at a good price.

They are running a $50 rebate on them now, through 10-31-11.

Yahtzee4U
July 7, 2011, 06:22 PM
What about a Ruger LC9? It's just as thin (pretty much same size everwhere, but more balanced), has a +1 on capacity (granted the PPS allows for the extended mag), and IMHO it is less "busy" than the Walther. Don't forget the much lower price tag and phenomenal Ruger warranty and CS.

vit
July 7, 2011, 06:24 PM
I looked one over yesterday. How does one operate the mag release?

Yahtzee4U
July 7, 2011, 09:16 PM
Button halfway down the grip on the left side.

Jbabbler
July 7, 2011, 09:19 PM
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/Ruger/IMG-20110707-00143.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/Ruger/IMG-20110707-00140.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/Ruger/IMG-20110707-00150.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/Ruger/IMG-20110707-00145.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/Ruger/IMG-20110707-00134.jpg

jackpinesavages
July 7, 2011, 09:28 PM
Uh, no, it IS a single-stack Glock as the thread title asks for, with .45 punch.

:what:




Super slim for a Glock, which is kind of like saying "not so heavy for a big girl . . ."

Jbabbler
July 7, 2011, 09:32 PM
Did you seriously just "uh, no" somebody? Really? Chill out, its just the interwebs.

Jbabbler
July 8, 2011, 03:57 PM
Took my PPS 40 to the property today. I couldn't get through a complete mag without a failure of some sort. I had at least 2 failure to extract events in every magazine. I used 3 different mags and about 5 brands of ammo ranging from WWB and Federal to Atlanta Arms reloads.
I'm fed up with this gun. I just threw $100 of ammo down th drain trying to get it to run. I field stripped it, oiled it, detail stripped the slide, cleaned and oiled it again. No change.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/jbabbler/GLOCK/IMG-20110708-00157.jpg

Fargazer
July 8, 2011, 04:38 PM
What about a Ruger LC9?
My problem with the LC9 is the trigger; it's a long heavy pull. Smooth yes, but not the type of trigger I prefer - I find the PPS trigger to be superior. My wife had one, and ended up selling it to a friend because of the trigger.

Take the following into account when deciding between the two pistols:

The LC9 trigger pull is long and heavy; if you aren't used to that, you have to put some extra practice in to get accurate with it.
The PPS has a paddle magazine release underneath the trigger guard, similar to many other Walthers and HKs. I love it, but some people hate that; it may also be an issue with muscle memory if its the only firearm you have that operates that way.
The more you are leaning toward a general gun for range and concealed carry, the more I'd lean toward the PPS; the more you lean toward a CCW only, the more I'd lean toward the Ruger.
The more cost is a factor, the more I'd lean toward the Ruger.

Shmackey
July 11, 2011, 11:29 AM
My 9mm PPS should ship from Bud's this week. I might even have it in my hands this weekend.

I wasn't interested in the Ruger because I wanted to move from my Kahr PM9 to a more real-feeling gun. The goal is to get something that carries really nicely IWB and can go into a large front pocket in a pinch.

Shmackey
August 25, 2011, 12:32 PM
Update: I've been carrying the PPS for about a month now. Maybe the inner workings are not completely Glocklike, but for anyone who's been waiting for a 9mm single-stack Glock, this is it. :)

I've put a few hundred rounds through it--my own various reloads as well as Speer 124 +P and some factory FMJ stuff. It's dead-nuts reliable and far, far, far easier to shoot than my PM9 was. I could shoot it all day. Accuracy is much better than the average subcompact but not up there with a custom 1911.

I'm not much of a rapid shooter, but the minuscule trigger reset makes me look good. :)

Holsters are not abundant, but the Desantis Cozy Partner that fits the G26 also fits the PPS perfectly. (Desantis even labels it as being meant for both guns.) For pocket carry, I use a Fist pocket holster. OWB is a High Noon.

I'm 5'7" and 160 soaking wet, but I can pocket-carry it in almost everything I wear. Certainly the PM9 was more suited for that, but I'm happy with the tradeoff to get a more shootable gun.

dragon813gt
August 25, 2011, 08:41 PM
My PPS has become my preferred CCW. It's ergonomics are second to none. It points very naturally and the sites are very easy to see in all conditions. The recoil is very minimal for how small the pistol is. I love the mag release location. I find myself pushing down on the trigger guards of all my pistols because I shoot the PPS the most. I'll go as far as saying I hate the conventional mag release location on my other pistols. The trigger reset is very short and once you are used to it follow up shots come very quickly. And for it's size it is a very accurate pistol. I have had zero issues in over two years and closing in on 5k rounds(9mm).

The downside is mag prices. But I personally don't need more than the two I have. Holsters are hard to come by as well. I've taken to carrying with a 5.11 holster shirt and I don't even notice it's there. The PPS is worth every penny and I still want the .40 version just because they make it. And yes, the PPS is very Glock like in function. But a lot nicer on the eyes and no ridiculous grip angle.


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Mango88
August 25, 2011, 10:18 PM
Jbabbler,

Take a look at ppstalk.com, they have the PPS break in process well documented. The important part is to use a good gun grease rather than oil and to get the right areas lubed.

I've carried a 9MM PPS off and on for about two years now and have had zero issues with it. I use Gun Slick grease and a heavy bullet to ensure that mine cycles without a hitch.

derrelw
August 25, 2011, 10:52 PM
I carried a PPS 9mm for about a year. They are very slim, accurate and reliable pistols but I hate the trigger. Lots of people have issues with the PPS in 40.

jeffreybehr
August 26, 2011, 04:16 AM
Had a PPS. Felt OK in the store, but it was the most-uncomfortable pistol I've even shot. Sold it.

cdsdss
August 26, 2011, 04:50 AM
Picked up a used First Edition 9mm about a year ago. It's been a little tack-driver every time I shoot it.

distra
August 27, 2011, 08:01 PM
Jbabbler, that looks like an extractor issue. Do you know if they touched that when they fixed it? S&W will make it right, unfortunately it may take a bit. They might send you the extractor. I have the PPS in .40S&W and the only issue I've had is the slide stop broke and would keep engaging the slide. I removed it and the gun ran fine. S&W sent me another and I was off and running! :D

The weird thing with DAK is you can either let the trigger reset completely after each shot which returns it to a 6.5 lb pull, or you can let it reset partially for a 8.5 lb pull. I thing the intermediate reset was intended as a safety feature but I'm not really sure what advantage it offers. I could see it being annoying if you like to shoot fast.

I have a P229 in .40S&W with a DAK trigger and it is not bad to shoot fast at all. As a matter of fact, if you "ride" the trigger to the intermediate reset for me it's more accurate and the speed is a non-issue. It sounds a little funny when it's described to you, but once you shoot one you find out it is a really nice trigger. Not as nice as my slicked up Glock, but close. If you like a consistent trigger pull shot-to-shot then the DAK is the way to go in a Sig. The DAO P250 I have is harder to shoot fast than the DAK. I don't even notice the difference in trigger put between the initial pull and intermediate pull. Now to get some SLIM grips for it...

jyo
August 28, 2011, 02:54 AM
I own a PPS 9mm that I like quite a lot---also own a mint P5 9mm that I really like as well, but the PPS is much smaller and thinner---the P5 is not really a CCW pistol.

carbuncle
August 28, 2011, 04:09 AM
I just got a .40 PPS, range-tested it yesterday and I love it. The trigger has a good weight for a defensive gun (around 6#), breaks cleanly and predictably and the reset is short and crisp. Conceals well, packs a punch and fired everything I put through it without a hitch. One mag doesn't want to take the last round, but it fires reliably. To me it's very reminiscent of the G27, but slimmer.

jackpinesavages
August 28, 2011, 09:57 PM
Did you just "really" somebody? Really? Chill out- the OP asked about single stack Glocks. It's there in the thread title. The G36 disappears but if somebody wants to take a sideways cheap seat shot at Glock's excellence, hey, it's the interwebs. PPS on.................:D








Did you seriously just "uh, no" somebody? Really? Chill out, its just the interwebs.

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