The Death of Colt

As I gazed upon a 3rd generation Colt detective special, and a Colt python, but before I spent nearly $2000, I got to thinking if Colt doesn't step up and do something they'll probably be gone soon.
Here's my reasoning, and the shop owner behind the counter as well
1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.

Am I the only one who thinks if Colt doesn't step up to the plate and actually sell to THE PEOPLE, that they'll be gone soon?

I 100% agree with you about the quality, they just don't make em like they used to. I think that colt should sell more to the public and remember who gave colt their prestige, but as long as they continue to hold government contracts they'll be around. When they don't have that big money government contract anymore they'll be begging the public to buy their guns and overcharge for what you get.

I partially agree...

I feel that the supply/demand loop has been modified by production limits in order to keep popularity up

I have been looking for a new delta elite and found no suppliers with them in stock
I went so far as to call colt and found that the product run for 2011 has been manufactured shipped and sold and no more will be produced untill 2012 and that I should have a shop preorder one and wait (god knows how long) to recieve one

this reminds me of toy marketing in the 80s
for every 50 he-mans made they made one skeletor just to make him more rare and in turn attempted to be more valuable as well

I have a feeling limiting the production numbers is whats keeping colts prices up as of late not quality

+1 to everything already posted. Can you imagine how many Pythons they'd sell if the quality was like it used to be and the price was realistic? Same thing applies to the 1911.

Amen brother! I have always been partial to Colts both revolvers and semiautos and have been fortunate to have bought several before Colt's current predicament and all we can hope for is their top management to pull their collective heads out of the --------(insert your own word). Pythons selling for 1500.00 or more...ridiculous. :cuss:

If they produced the Python it would be a $2k revolver and vastly inferior to the Smith 686. Which is pretty much what killed the gun in the first place.

They are a sad shadow of their former selves. They produce ancient designs that have been superceded by virtually everybody else in the marketplace. Recently I got in an XSE and a Citadel. While the XSE had slightly better fit and finish the Citadel was in fact a better-made gun for about half the money.

Colt has spent most of the last 30 years suing people for one thing or another rather than on formulating guns the public will want to buy.

Besides some of their quality problems, they have completely priced themselves out of the market. If they dropped the prices on the 1911's they would have a hard time meeting the demand even with all the competition.

Yup to all of the above. They will go the way of Bentley if they don't make some dramatic changes. A handcrafted auto manufacturer catering to a niche market.

Also, will someone please explain to me why the Colt cylinder release is a PULL lever instead of one that can be pushed with the thumb and loaded with the left hand? How does one release the cylinder and load in one smooth quick operation?

I guess I must have been lucky. I bought a few new, WWI repro 1911's in recent years and they have been flawless. Both were around $900 new. The S70 Repro and other 1911's, even the XSE's can be had for under $1K, or just over. I think their quality is on par or better than Springfield, Kimber and other competitors at the same respective price points.

While the XSE had slightly better fit and finish the Citadel was in fact a better-made gun Really? Really?? sigh* must remember to take the high road...

Colt 1911s are closer to the original than most other makes- they use very good steel forgings and keep mim to a minimum. Just bough a Colt Rail Gun XSE and am quite happy with it.

Regarding prices on Colts...

Colt automatics are priced competitively--and in most cases BETTER--than the other high end offerings on the market.

Example: Buy a Wilson, Nighthawk or Kimber model with all the bells and whistles, and you'll pay well over a thousand dollars. For the Nighthawk, make it two thousand.

Colt XSE Combat Elite--everything you need or want on a semiauto fighting gun, and right at or slightly under a thousand bucks.

Colt Special Combat Gov't--the best of the best--hand fitted, adjustable sights, with a test target and guaranteed accuracy--right at $1600.

cyclops
Im not doubting that colts are of good quality but at the same time they are not of the SAME quality from the past

I just wish they would raise the production numbers a good deal some of us would like to get our colts before we become antiques as well

I don't think it is relevant to compare Colt's previous double action revolver offerings to its new 1911's. Apples and oranges and Colt no longer makes its revolvers. Compare the older 1911's with the new ones. While the finish may be a little nicer on some older models, I think the new ones compare favorably and have better steel in many cases.

Pick up an 01911, 01918 or current S70 Repro or Gold Cup Trophy and see.

Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.


Colt just extensively revamped their machinery for their 1911s. Fit/finish/quality now is very good compared to the price they charge. You want a semi-custom gun, pay the price. Don't expect a custom/semi-custom firearm at a mass produced price. Expensive hand fitting for a mass produced firearm is a bygone era. Machining techniques used today may not be as attractive cosmetically, but they make the guns affordable and just as, if not more accurate, consistent and reliable as their predecessors.



If they produced the Python it would be a $2k revolver and vastly inferior to the Smith 686. Which is pretty much what killed the gun in the first place.

I don't know about inferior, but they would be comparable. For three times the price most folks would and did pass and buy the 686. The guns were/are nice, but they weren't/aren't the Holy Grail. Not being made anymore is what makes the older guns valuable. If they were a such great gun, worth whatever it cost to produce them, they would have never been discontinued in the first place. I'm sure actual marketing directors with degrees other than gun forum poster, have research the feasibility of returning the gun to production. Sometimes, there just ain't enough profit in something to produce it. Stockholders want a return on their investment.(me included)

1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.


i agree 100%. what they do make is overpriced for what you get, like their 1911's that come with plastic MSH's :eek:

they charge extra for that little pony on the slide, but i don't care about prestige, i want quality and features for the money. most of the recent production colt 1911's i've looked at have had bad machining, thumb safeties falling off the frame, etc......this is why i've never even considered purchasing one of their products. not to mention all the accounts on 1911forum of poor cust serv from them.


colt is probably in the guiness book of world records for the amount of times they've filed bankruptcy LOL, so it wouldn't surprise me if that happened again.


those die hard brand loyalists that like them for no other reason other than they're colts can have them. ;)

Rug,

1. Yes, they did.

2. They did not "turn their backs" on loyal customers. This term is used often & everytime it is it shows a lack of understanding of basic business principles. Colt is a BUSINESS. As such, it's not there to continue to provide slow-selling nostalgia products to a relatively low-return market segment. They made a very easy-to-understand business decision to put limited resources into the areas of greatest return. The military market is the only thing that's kept the Colt name in the game. If you can't make both, and you can sell 5000 M-16s for every .44 Anaconda, what would YOU do?
Government "brown nosing" has zero to do with it, and as I repeatedly point out when this equine carcass surfaces- it wasn't only OUR government buying.

3. Colt is not a large company. They used to be, but no longer.

4. Colt's DA revolvers were simply not selling well enough to be retained.

5. Agree on the difference in quality, although it's come up recently.
This QC decline is hardly unique to Colt, though. The Marlin example you cite showed a much larger decline toward the last year or so in the old plant. Some would also include S&W's current revolvers, and the last couple years of the old USRAC plant in New Haven did not produce guns known as high-water marks in that department.

6. Pricing is a matter of individual choice & tolerance.
Many of us are perfectly happy to spend a little extra to get what Colt offers in configurations, materials, and designs.

Colt is now stronger than it's been in the past 15 years, and hopefully they'll be able to keep on keepin' on for quite a while longer.

Denis

+1 to everything already posted. Can you imagine how many Pythons they'd sell if the quality was like it used to be and the price was realistic? Same thing applies to the 1911.


Companies are in business to make a profit, not create museum pieces. Do you know how much Colt would have to charge to make Pythons like they used to? Look at what used Pythons go for on the secondary market.

I guarantee, the price would not be "realistic". Plus the tooling no longer exists to make the Python and to invest in new machining and ramp up for production would not be economically viable. So before everyone starts bashing Colt for not making things the way they used to, get a grip on the reality of serving a marketplace in today's economic environment.

Do S&W's revolvers resemble their previous offerings in quality, fit and finish?

Rug,

1. Yes, they did.

2. They did not "turn their backs" on loyal customers. This term is used often & everytime it is it shows a lack of understanding of basic business principles. Colt is a BUSINESS. As such, it's not there to continue to provide slow-selling nostalgia products to a relatively low-return market segment. They made a very easy-to-understand business decision to put limited resources into the areas of greatest return. The military market is the only thing that's kept the Colt name in the game. If you can't make both, and you can sell 5000 M-16s for every .44 Anaconda, what would YOU do?
Government "brown nosing" has zero to do with it, and as I repeatedly point out when this equine carcass surfaces- it wasn't only OUR government buying.

3. Colt is not a large company. They used to be, but no longer.

4. Colt's DA revolvers were simply not selling well enough to be retained.

5. Agree on the difference in quality, although it's come up recently.
This QC decline is hardly unique to Colt, though. The Marlin example you cite showed a much larger decline toward the last year or so in the old plant. Some would also include S&W's current revolvers, and the last couple years of the old USRAC plant in New Haven did not produce guns known as high-water marks in that department.

6. Pricing is a matter of individual choice & tolerance.
Many of us are perfectly happy to spend a little extra to get what Colt offers in configurations, materials, and designs.

Colt is now stronger than it's been in the past 15 years, and hopefully they'll be able to keep on keepin' on for quite a while longer.

Denis




All of this is correct.


.

I completely agree with what has been posted this far. Its like Colt had completely given up
Hell they can't see the potential dollars right I'm front of their faces. One of their classic designs the Mustang, would be a huge Seller but they refused to bring the back
Sig saw the writings on the wall for the public's need to a compact .380 and started to produce the 238
Which IMHO is a blatant ripoff of the Mustang.

If Colt where to reintroduce their python, 1903 hammerless or SSA with old school craftsmanship at an affordable pricepoint they could win back a lot of customers and make a boatload of money

Government contracts.

Why sell pythons to a niche audience when they can crank out thousands of rifles for Uncle with a better profit ratio?

Colt's then president basically one upped Bill Ruger by speaking out in favor of registration. He was rather promptly booted from his job but the damage to Colt's rep was done.

Colt tried their hand what they thought was innovation with the All-American 2000 but it failed miserably.

The UAW strike they had in the 1980s did not help either. They seem to have been limping along lately and I wouldn't be surprised if they get bought for a song.

Lesson of business is that you have to think in the long run and not just zero in on the short term.

Do S&W's revolvers resemble their previous offerings in quality, fit and finish?
No. They are much better than they used to be. Better materials, better machining. I've probably handled several hundred in the last 5 years and there might have been one or two with inferior actions. Most were simply superb.

Really? Really?? sigh* must remember to take the high road...

Colt 1911s are closer to the original than most other makes- they use very good steel forgings and keep mim to a minimum. Just bough a Colt Rail Gun XSE and am quite happy with it.
'Fraid so. Trigger was much better on the Citadel, as was slide to frame fit. The machining on the slide was slightly better on the Colt, but you had to hold them side by side to tell.
They might be closer to the original guns, which were sloppy and wore out quickly. My gunsmith, a Colt registered 'smith, tells me in the 1970s it was rare to find a Colt 1911 that would feed a single magazine of hardball reliably out of the box.
As for pricing, I have found the SIG 1911's a far better value than Colts, or any competitor.

Mac,
Nope, you're way off. What you suggest simply can't be done.

It's not a matter of Colt failing to see dollar signs, it's a matter of Colt not having the dollars to begin with.
Introducing a totally new design costs BIG money. Re-introducing a long-gone design also costs money.
You don't just snap your fingers before lunch & start selling them right after lunch.

Materials have to be sourced & paid for, machinery paid for or programmed, employees trained, parts sourced, vendor channels set up, in-house part inventories set up.
Since there wouldn't be enough to return to justify that, much less new production equipment, production would have to be rotated among existing models on existing machinery, creating more delays on those existing models.

Colt hasn't given up, they just flat don't have the resources.

It also would not be possible to re-introduce outdated designs based on outdated production methods & market demands such as the Python or the 1902 at "affordable" pricing, even with CNC.
Colt would NOT make a bundle, they'd lose a bundle.

"Old school craftsmanship" and "affordable pricepoint" simply can't be done anymore.
It's a dream that needs to wake up to reality.
Denis

I look at what I see being shot at the range, or I look at what is being talked about here on THR, and I just do not see a market for a new Python, or any other Colt gun comparable in finish to the high polished blue and checkered walnut of yesteryear.

The emphasis has changed. I see lots of talk about Glocks and XDs, Scandium this or Stainless that, Polymer wonders and CCW or tactical weapons. For every thread about some traditional blue or nickel gun, there are twenty for the modern defensive handguns that do not emphasize looks or finish.

Colt could probably build a new revolver and sell enough to make a tidy profit, but it won't be as nicely finished as the old ones. It will have to focus instead on things like durability and concealment for use as a defensive tool, because that is what the market calls for. And then they will catch all sorts of flak for not making them like they used to!

I have two Colt 1911s that I have purchased new in the last three years. Their quality is better than the quality of my Colt 1911 that I purchased new in the 70s.

Colt is dead has been the mantra for the last twenty five years. :rolleyes: It's not happening any time soon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"As I gazed upon a 3rd generation Colt detective special, and a Colt python, but before I spent nearly $2000, I got to thinking if Colt doesn't step up and do something they'll probably be gone soon."
I said this to myself about 15 years ago. Colt is still here. Go figure.

another thing i noticed about colt is that they waste resources on making $1,250+ Sing Action Army revolvers. why? how many do they possibly sell? wouldn't a single stack .380 be more viable in today's market, not to mention a quality polymer pistol? they discontinued the python, yet they still make these? :eek: LOL


like i said though, we all know Colt has a history of extremely poor business decisions lol

FWIW, I think a Python, made today the same way it was made "back then" would cost a lot more than $2000. And the people who claim to want them so badly would look, sneer, and walk away, saying that bringing them back destroyed the collectibility.

Jim

Colt sells every SAA and 1911 they make. Why would they want to compete in a saturated market of polymer while their nitch is profitable and sastisfy many on several levels.

If there are problems with any Colt you buy they will fix it. Their CS is much better now.

All gun makers produce lemons. While I appreciate my Python, Diamondback and Woodsman Match Target, all made the old fashioned way, I like my new Colts better.

Also as I've said before, Colt considers the iconic Peacemaker to be more of a PR offering than a practical one.
Because it's one of the most instantly recognizable handguns in the world, they're willing to keep it going.

Can't say the same about the Python, with no comparable history or great name usage & recognition value. The Python's always been an expensive niche gun, whereas the Peacemaker evokes Western expansion, heroes, and adventure.

Gimme the names of five Python users who can equate to Bat Masterson, Wyatt Earp, Theodore Roosevelt, George Custer's 7th Cavalry, or even Matt Dillon. :)

You buy a Colt Peacemaker, all of that comes with it.
You buy a Python, you get a very pretty target revolver.

Denis

"They waste resources on making $1,250+ Single Action Army revolvers. ? how many do they possibly sell? wouldn't a single stack .380 be more viable in today's market"

Well, considering they are making custom fitted SAA's that aren't lawyered up with Rugeresque billboard wraparound warning labels in a classic design similar to what was produced in 1873...they sell everyone they make. And, we have to wait sometimes to get our hands on them.

Unlike the .380 - a round more famous for a fictional character named after an ornithologist...the 45 long colt in that antiquated SAA has a real history carried by real people, some who are American icons. Also, it still works, for both hunting and self defense.

Colt 1911's (as well as their M4's and SAA's) are the firearms that are the paragons which others are judged. I think that most internet Colt bashers have never even purchased a Colt especially when they compare lesser quality firearms that cost even more than the Colt.

I know when my Colts go to the range, people ask to shoot them. And Colts tend to hold their value as compared to other offerings.

Need a 38super or 10mm? Colt has loyally produced firearms in these rounds when most others turned their back to to other more popular offerings.

I personally have no interest in a wee little 380 round pistol or any more plastic junk on the market place. How many companies have to throw around tupperware pistols on the counters to keep those mall ninja's satisfied anyways?

+1 to everything already posted. Can you imagine how many Pythons they'd sell if the quality was like it used to be and the price was realistic? Same thing applies to the 1911.


If Colt where to reintroduce their python, 1903 hammerless or SSA with old school craftsmanship at an affordable pricepoint they could win back a lot of customers and make a boatload of money

Except they CAN'T- you folks want 1950-60's handfitting today but at those prices - isn't happening - their union troubles did a lot to sink them as well as the bad business practices

The issue with reincarnating an out of production line, is that it will ALWAYS be compared to the original - and in order to have that level of quality, the prices will be so high, nothing will get sold in quantities high enough to generate a reasonable profit


IF Colt can survive, it will be as a semi or custom builder like Wilson or Baer - JMO

1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.

1. Well yes and no. They did eventually lose a section of the M16 contract to FN but this was about the time they won the exclusive contract to supply the U.S. with the M4 and about the time the U.S. military began ordering more M4s than M16s. Even after losing the M16 contract Colt remained the supplier of choice for the M16 for a number of countries other than the U.S. There is a good discussion of Colt and the M16 and M4 in the book "American Rifle" which I recommend to anyone.

2. "Government Brown nosers" This is an interesting take on a company that has been one of the chief suppliers to the U.S. military for over 100 years. Several years ago Colt divided into two separate companies Colt Manufacturing (civilian sales) and Colt Defense for military and law enforcement. Colt manufacturing makes the Colt SAA and 1911 and variations of it, such as the Colt Agent, it sells all that it can make. They have about 100 employees. Colt Defense has an bout 2000 employees and is thriving.

3. Colt Defense has an extensive line up which you can see here...

http://colt.com/

You can see what Colt Manufacturing has here...

http://www.coltsmfg.com/

Decide for yourself if the line up is "meager".

4. They did stop selling the da revolvers. No one was buying them. Competition from S&W, Ruger, Taurus and Colt management's incompetence drove them out of the market. Oh and the fact that the law enforcement contracts dried up played a role as well.

5. Having looked at a good many of both I can honestly say that the 1911s coming from Colt today are better than those made in the 70s and 80s. The finish was better back then but the functioning of the guns is better today. The Colt SAAs were better in the 70s though.

6. Prices are competitive.

You can be pissed at Colt but at least be irritated for the right reasons. It is a successful company, both parts of it.

tipoc

Looks like it's going to require the patronage of the moneyed gentry to float Colt's boat.

Colt's boat is floating very well. That is not a matter of opinion it's factual and can be verified by anyone who is really interested in the facts.

tipoc

Colt builds the SAA and the 1911 because they are both sellers. Colt cannot make either fast enough to keep up with the demand. Current quality on both those models is as good as ever and in the case of the SAA much better than 15 years ago. I own a number of each and do not care to have other makes in my collection.

come on guys, you're not going to convince me that SAA's are a source of great profit for colt lol

i don't see the SASS being a viable consumer market considering they adopted 1911's into their competitions to prevent going extinct.

If you want a good idea of what it would cost to make a modern day Python the old fashioned way, just look at the Connecticut Shotgun licensed version of the Winchester Model 21. http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/

The cheap gun starts at $15k.

Again:

Colt is doing very well these days.
They've announced a number of new or reintroduced models including the Mustang, a new double action 1911 type series, a new .308 AR rifle, re-introduced the former police-only AR rifles back into the commercial line, and the manager of the Custom Shop has announced that a double action revolver is coming.
They've announced the re-introduction of the Colt New Frontier and a stainless steel Single Action Army is coming.
Colt's catalog has a nice line up of guns with more coming now that they're getting back on their feet and have new production equipment.
What people don't take into effect is that Colt sells the military and police guns world wide and is making good money.

Quality-wise, Colt is making the best 1911 pistols since the 1960's, and according to the latest numbers from the ATF, Colt is making more 1911 pistols than anyone but Kimber.
People don't see Colt's in the display cases and figure they aren't making any.
The truth is, Colt's seldom make it into the dealers display case because they sell too fast.

Colt isn't fading, they're getting stronger every year, and every year they're announcing new models.
Some people seem to have gotten lost back in the 1980's and fail to realize that Colt has progressed past the bad old days.

As for not making the Python and the other old revolvers, they were no longer profitable so they had to be dropped.
Brace yourselves, the Buick and Packard were also discontinued.

Apo,
I don't think anybody's trying to tell you the Peacemaker is a great profit source for Colt.
I told you above why they keep it going.
SASS is a part of the market, but not the largest part by any means.
Denis

I have three 1911 pattern pistols, all Colts made in 80's,90's, and this week I picked up a 2011 Gold Cup Trophy. The quality is back.

I was born and raised in CT, and visited the Colt factory as a young lad. My father was a WWII vet, and the second gun I ever fired (after a single shot .22 rifle) was his WWII 1911.

To this day, I feel an exquisite pride in being a native of the Constitution State. Unfortunately, the cradle of Liberty where I was raised is now a mockery of what it was just 50 years ago.

I have owned a number of Colts in the past, including ARs and 1911s. My current ARs are made by Armalite, and my current 1911s are made by Kimber, DW, Les Baer and so on...

If they produced the Python it would be a $2k revolver and vastly inferior to the Smith 686. Which is pretty much what killed the gun in the first place.

That is funny.

2 686's live at my house (fine guns...think "toyota camry". Well made..dependable...cheap-ish) and a Python.

First off...the wheels on the Colt bus were falling off all on their own.
The 686 was a cheap police duty side arm. It had NOTHING to do with the demise of Colt.

The Python was a highly finished, highly tuned, performance machine. Smith's competitor was the Model 27...not the 686.

As to being superior...one can certainly say the 686 was a superior value. While factory triggers were acceptable they were never great. Fit and finish was fine. And accuracy good. Good guns at a good price. Even a low paid security guard could afford them. I applaud S&W for producing such a fine "everyman's" gun.

Now if you want to compare a Smith 27...now you are talking!
The 27 is a great gun...the 357 flagship of Smith.

One could argue that the 27 was superior to the Python...Of course that was before the wheels fell of Smith's bus.

My gunsmith, a Colt registered 'smith, tells me in the 1970s it was rare to find a Colt 1911 that would feed a single magazine of hardball reliably out of the box.

Wow. I bought several new Colt 1911s back in the 70's and don't seem to recall that issue. Mine worked just fine. Those owned by lots of other shooters of my acquaintance at that time worked just fine.

Just lucky I guess... ;)

If they brought back a "new" Python that cost 2 grand, would it sell? Heck, no there are too many NIB ones out there right now that can be had for less than that....Wanna see some pics?...LOL.

If Colt brought back a double action revolver that was priced between a GP100 and 686, would it sell? Heck, yes...Or at least that's what I say. I'll be the first in line to buy one. I'd guess to build such a gun, it would have to have the MKV (King Cobra) action. They could stick Python-like barrel with a vent rib and crowned muzzle on it to give it that snazzy look....If that can build such a gun, I will gladly try one out.

The revolver market, unfortunately, isn't very large.

As someone who loves double action revolvers, I really wish there was an "Ed Brown" or "Wilson Combat" making Pythons to the same quality standards as high end 1911s.

Unfortunately, it seems, most people who buy a revolver buy one because they want to shoot a Magnum. Judging from the limited number of makers of Magnum double action revolvers, the Magnum double action revolver market is pretty small.

Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Taurus, and Charter Arms are the largest makers of double action revolvers. Compare that to the number of makers of 1911s or semiautomatics in general.

As far as marketing, Ruger, Taurus, and Charter Arms sell revolvers to the "everyman". Smith & Wesson sell revolvers to both the everyman and a little more higher end buyer; however, even the higher end S&W revolvers are priced close to $1,000.

I would really love to see Colt bring back the Python, but how much business sense that makes is questionable.

and the manager of the Custom Shop has announced that a double action revolver is coming.

Details please!

I've heard the same thing ^^ and no details...I heard this rumor about 6 months ago.

As I gazed upon a 3rd generation Colt detective special, and a Colt python, but before I spent nearly $2000, I got to thinking if Colt doesn't step up and do something they'll probably be gone soon.
Here's my reasoning, and the shop owner behind the counter as well
1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.

Am I the only one who thinks if Colt doesn't step up to the plate and actually sell to THE PEOPLE, that they'll be gone soon?
Just about everything in the original post is wrong.

1. Colt hasn't had the M16 contract in decades. They do have an extremely lucrative M4 contract.
2. This is somewhat correct. They really just made a business decision to focus on gov't contracts.
3. Colt has a much larger line up than Marlin ever did. It is simply focused on a market that you are not a part of. Marlin was poorly run and only saved by the Remington purchase.
4. The revolvers were good guns that were costly to make and had very limited market appeal.
5. You have a much different memory than mine. The 1970s produced guns that looked like they were made by a drunken UAW union worker 5 minutes before a strike. The 80s were not much better. The current Colts are some of the best ever.
6. You can get a Colt for under $1K, that has more forged and less MIM than anything else in the price range.

Colt has posted the highest earnings in the history of the company.

Wow. I bought several new Colt 1911s back in the 70's and don't seem to recall that issue. Mine worked just fine. Those owned by lots of other shooters of my acquaintance at that time worked just fine.

Just lucky I guess...

Yeah. The personal experience of someone with "several" guns trumps that of a practicing gunsmith who saw probably hundreds.
Carry on.

Colt has posted the highest earnings in the history of the company. The history of the company is a good read on the Colt website. Clears up a lot of misconceptions.

Yeah. The personal experience of someone with "several" guns trumps that of a practicing gunsmith who saw probably hundreds.
Carry on.

I was regularly carrying & shooting 1911s (both stock & custom) back in the 70's. My recollection of commercial Colts at that time was that they would only reliably function with hardball (for which they were designed). Feeding of the newly marketed hollow points of the time was a hit or miss proposition...some guns would cycle reliably...some wouldn't. If they wouldn't, throating & porting was usually in order. Kimbers, Springfields, and all the other clones didn't yet exist. Somehow back then, we all managed to carry Colt 1911s and successfully shoot 230 grain FMJ without resorting to the services of a gunsmith.

Like I mentioned...I must have been just incredibly lucky. Yeah. Right. Carry on. ;)

Well, it seems people who like and own a Colt will jump in and defend the company.

Those who don't own or like a Colt tend to bash the company.

Those who wish they had a Colt bash the company either for the lack of products or the price.

Doesn't seem fair but that is life. :rolleyes:

Well, it seems people who like and own a Colt will jump in and defend the company.

Those who don't own or like a Colt tend to bash the company.

Those who wish they had a Colt bash the company either for the lack of products or the price.

Doesn't seem fair but that is life. :rolleyes:


Oh so true.....and you could replace the name Colt in that paragraph with virtually any of the other big name Gun Manufacturers and it would ring true in virtually every gun forum on the internet.

Doesn't seen fair, but that is human nature.

and the manager of the Custom Shop has announced that a double action revolver is coming.

Details please!

Brent is the manager of the Colt Custom Shop and posts on the Colt forum and on the 1911 forum. His ID is "Bjt72".

Earlier this year he told us that a new double action revolver is in the works.
He won't/can't tell us any details.

Well, it seems people who like and own a Colt will jump in and defend the company.

They need to self-justify paying more for inferior products and a roll mark.:evil:

They need to self-justify paying more for inferior products and a roll mark.

Hahah! :D Sorry... more of a S&W fan here.

I have a few Colts and like them, but I'm not defending the company. Colt was run down by idiots over decades...lurching from one self-destructive decision to another. I think they have begun a healthy recovery and I wish them well. I'd rather have Colt selling firearms than a void where that company used to be.

BTW: My last purchased NIB (original) Series 70 MKIV cost me all of $272 in 2005 dollars. Trust me, I never overpay for guns. ;)

Regards.

Well, it seems people who like and own a Colt will jump in and defend the company.

Those who don't own or like a Colt tend to bash the company.

Those who wish they had a Colt bash the company either for the lack of products or the price.

Ya don't think much of folks do ya Cochise. Unfortunate that you have the handle of a man who did.

There is a difference between what is true and what is unsubstanciated rumor, slander and B.S. A fella can either speak what is true or speak something else. Your choice. You will be known for those choices though.

Despite the truly bad decisions Colt management has made over decades that company is still alive and doing well and far from being dead. Those are all true things, easily verifiable. I don't say that because I own some Colts, I say that because it is true.

tipoc

For the record, I am a traditionalist myself, Like Colt, Own a Colt, and have owned other Colts...

The problem with colt IMO is that it has for decades pandered to (for lack of a better word) fuds, when it was even concerned with private sales at all.

The problem with fuds is that they have selective memory. They remember buying a 'genuine Colt' in 1960 for $200, and conveniently forget inflation; thus they gag on the $1,200 price tag of modern models - they want a NEW 100% hand made and hand finished Colt for $200 "the way it should be".

Ruger used to be in the same boat. The only difference is they failed to win their bids at government contracts. They struggled to stay afloat after that, and built up a reputation as having had 'lost quality' and being expensive compared to competing models. (Mini Vs. AR and M77 Vs. Rem700). Only recently have they turned things around by, surprise surprise, listening to the market and producing items that the CURRENT market demands (small pistols and specialty carbines).

Colt will likely have to do the same thing to stay afloat - make NEW models that LOTS of people actually want to buy.

"They need to self-justify paying more for inferior products and a roll mark."

You really need to go to a gun shop and compare prices and items before making these kind of silly statements. It's like comparing the msrp of a chevette to mustang gt and saying the chevette is the best because it has 4 wheels and does the same thing...

Colts - especially their 1911's - are very competitively priced. They have the least mim parts of any non-custom gun. They come in different options at different pricepoints for different audiences. Their top of the line model the special combat government is like 1600-1700 out the door. Their run of the mill models are like 700. Their trademark is one of the most easily recognizable in the world and that alone gifts each piece manufactured with some intrinsic value down the road.

It's funny how people who mock the Colt 1911 always retort with 'I'd rather own a Les Baer or Ed Brown or Wislon..." Really? You'd rather own a custom fitted pistol built to your specs than a run of the mill manufactured one? Really? I bet you'd trade that chevette for a lamborghini too...but only if it were the right color.

If you don't like Colt because your equine-phoric...good. Less delay for me to wait to get mine.

I don't own only Colts either...but do favor them because of their quality, lack of locks, resale value and American history.

"Colt will likely have to do the same thing to stay afloat - make NEW models that LOTS of people actually want to buy."

Ummm...they do sell. Colts do not tend to collect dust in the showcase.

You really need to go to a gun shop and compare prices and items before making these kind of silly statements. It's like comparing the msrp of a chevette to mustang gt and saying the chevette is the best because it has 4 wheels and does the same thing...
I go to a gun shop every day and sit there for 8 hours. Sometimes I log in guns. Sometimes I complete 4473s. Often I chat with my gunsmith, a man with 50 years' experience, many of them shooting 1911 competitively.
The Colt is difficult to obtain (they dont make a lot) and expensive for what it is. There are many many better choices out there. If people feel I'm insulting their mother by speaking the truth, get over it.

5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.

I recently purchased a SIG P220 and I was talking to the manager about Colts. I told him I had read all sorts of gunwriter articles about how the new Colts were the tightest and best ever.

The manager shook his head and pulled up from under the counter three new Colt M1911's.

All of them rattled like an old series 80.

He also pulled up the least expensive Springfield Armory M1911, and it was tight. Incredibly tight.

Colt, old name, old products. People will pay for the Pony, I won't pay extra for less.

I can't justify spending over $1800 on a COLT "Special Combat Government
Model"; when I can add a few extra $$, and have a NIB Les Baer Thunder Ranch
Special .45 ACP. ;) :D

If people feel I'm insulting their mother by speaking the truth

If you insulted their mother by speaking of Colt...wouldn't they be a foal?

While this has deteriorated beyond the original question, I'll note in passing that the Colt rattle is not a sign of quality, does not affect accuracy, and does aid reliability under the types of harsh conditions the guns were originally designed for.

Some of us, me very much included, actually like that rattle.
As far as tight goes, I finally sold my Baer a couple years ago.
To finance another Colt. :)

If you don't like Colts, that's fine.
If you don't want a Colt product, equally fine.
The end point remains that while Colt may not be offering exactly what you want, they're far from dying.
Denis

SlamFire1: The manager shook his head and pulled up from under the counter three new Colt M1911's.

All of them rattled like an old series 80.

He also pulled up the least expensive Springfield Armory M1911, and it was tight. Incredibly tight.

That's a very good point and drives to the heart of the matter concerning people's perceptions of what constitutes a proper 1911.

When Colt or surplus GI 1911A1s were the only game in town (and leaving aside overseas clones like the Sistema)...they were supposed to rattle. The lockup and accuracy of a combat weapon did not depend on having tight rail interface. The famous rattle was precisely what made the 1911 platform a dependable field weapon for fighting.

During the 1950's through the late 1970's, tightening of rails and moving interfaces was reserved for gunsmithed weapons tailored for accuracy competition. If you wanted a factory pistol with tighter tolerances (and better accuracy), you started with a basic Gold Cup or worked a stock pistol into Military National Match format. Even Colt's accurate and long selling Gold Cup needed considerably more modification to compete against the best work of famous shops and smiths. This was an era of custom target weapons with a cottage industry of aftermarket smiths and parts providers turning the 1911 into a bulls eye weapon.

Eventually, the rigors of the new combat games resulted in wildly modified race guns demanded for competition. When the start up manufacturers began offering gunsmith modifications as standard on factory weapons, the market responded by buying them like hotcakes. That's how Kimber made its name.

The public's perception of what constituted a 1911 was influenced by marketing strategies during the 80's-90's. This perception was changed to the point that most shooters today believe that ALL 1911s are supposed to be finely finished, incredibly tight, feature laden works of art, delivering SIG 210 target performance while retaining BBQ looks.

Most younger shooter's eyes will quickly ignore a basic Parkerized 1911 in favor of more attractive eye candy...unless their wallet dictates an entry level Springfield or RIA. They have been trained by gun magazines, movies, and the internet to lust after the higher priced spread. It's just marketing and Colt plays the same game as every other manufacturer or semi-custom shop.

And why not? Look into any gun counter or at any eye-catching advertisement for modern 1911s and it's all about showmanship, presentation, and tactical bling...1911s as fishing lures for your wallet.

The super tight CNC factory produced "combat" guns of today are great products, but they are NOT the 1911 that defined the genre's reputation over decades of military combat use. Though they will shoot accurately and serve most shooters for CCW, nightstand use, or casual range shooting, most of them are not designed for the same wartime use that the original military weapon excelled at.

Because they are "tight", they won't functionally handle a dump in the snow, getting inundated with wet sand at the surf zone of a beach, or being dragged through a muddy trench or irrigation canal. They won't reliably come up firing out of a soaked holster in a rust-prone jungle environment. They are more range toys than actual combat weapons.

The reason folks have so many problems with their 1911s today is that the modern offerings have so drastically departed from the reliable design tolerances built into the original 5" government model. Back in the day, you could stand in a military arms room, pull pistols from racks, and swap parts among issue 1911A1s with almost boring reliability. For the most part, even items like triggers, grip safeties, and sears were actually drop-in. Try swapping those parts today between a modern Kimber and say...a S&W. They will probably require some fitting and that fitting is usually beyond the ability of the casual owner.

Nowadays, folks expect and demand that their 1911 be tightly fitted. This is simply not necessary or true to the original design, but it's what the market demands.

Today's customers expect manufacturers to provide all the features they have become convinced they need... rather than what is really necessary. FLGRs, ambi-extended safeties, forward slide serrations, extra-power springs, bushings that require wrenches, scalloping...the list goes on. The only things a GI weapon ever really needed were an opened/flared ejection port and some high-visibility fixed combat sights. These are provided today by almost every vendor (including Colt).

Colt remains comparatively true to the original design tolerances (minus cosmetic changes). They work, they retain their value (that silly roll-mark again ;) ), they use a minimum of MIM parts (a feature I personally prefer), and I've rarely come across a malfunctioning one that hadn't been screwed with by an original owner who tried to "improve" the gun by swapping out parts.

Does Colt produce occasional lemons? Absolutely. So does everyone else. Some more than others.

What Colt produces today is a quality version of their original design. The debate concerning hand-fitting vs. CNC is moot. Nobody else lavishes significant hand fitting on their 1911s until you step up well north of 2K prices. At the $850-$1150 price range, it's hard to beat what Colt offers in their 1911 lineup.

I think Colt is far from dead and I intend to occasionally buy what they offer in the future. Just as I intend to do with offerings from every other manufacturer I like.

I'm sitting here cleaning a recently fired Python (a model almost certain to never be produced again) and enjoying what that gun represents in terms of craftsmanship, beauty, and outstanding performance. I'm reminded of the days when I first got into handgun shooting and couldn't afford one. I intend to keep it for now and eventually pay it forward to someone who will appreciate the shooting era it represents.

So, yeah, I like some Colts. Pythons, D-Frames, 1911s, and ARs. The rest of their models? No interest really.

The Colt 1911A1 I carried for my most recent year in Iraq (2010-2011):

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=127860&stc=1&d=1284953262

Guillermo: The manager shook his head and pulled up from under the counter three new Colt M1911's.

All of them rattled like an old series 80.

He also pulled up the least expensive Springfield Armory M1911, and it was tight. Incredibly tight.


you misquote me.

That was Slamfire

Colt has posted the highest earnings in the history of the company.
Where did they do this?

"There are many many better choices out there."

Really?

List them...list the 1911 models that are: made in America, sold for 700 dollars out the door, have the fewest mim parts of produced firearms, do not have any additional non-1911 parts ie locks or other extra safetys besides series what is found in 70's/80's?

While your at it...list the company that manufactures these many many pistols that have been manufacturing them over 100 years.

Hmmm suddenly your list has grown rather short...

Your stores lack of carrying the Colt seems to have biased you...since it's so hard to obtain...lipseys and davidson's has them. Order a few from them and see how long they stay in your counter.

Also, your personality as it comes through on the internet...I know it's hard to judge...is very typical of the know it all people who sit behind gun counters all day long and fill out forms. Get out in the sun and fresh air. Quit painting your fingernails black and give up that goth look ;)

Seriously though if you don't like the pony you don't have to ride it...but imho you're missing out.

Aww, did I hurt your feelings?

I like value in guns. Colt doesn't provide it. Smith, Springfield, Para, and SIG all produce better guns in that range. The Philippine guns will shoot with Colts all day long and cost about half as much.
SOmeone likes Colts? Great. More power to him.

Bubba613 wrote,
I like value in guns. Colt doesn't provide it. Smith, Springfield, Para, and SIG all produce better guns in that range.
I like value too, but it depends on what you value.

Colt Commander $883 list at Davidsons. Chosen because it is my favorite Commander in the Colt line-up.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx?item=O4691

S&W Commander $1,369 list at Davidsons. Chosen because it is the least expensive S&W 1911 Commander available at Davidsons.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=108483&index=0&mfg=Smith+%26+Wesson&mdl=1911%7cSW1911&cat=1&type=Semi-Automatic+Pistol&cal=All&fin=&sit=&pid=&inv=

The S&W has more "features", but I don't think it is a better made pistol with better made parts. Build quality and quality of materials are most likely equal between the two brands. If you don't value all the add-ons on the S&W the Colt is certainly a better value.

I'm not knocking S&W, I like them as much as Colt, and they are a very good gun. However, to say Colt's "are expensive for what you get" or "aren't a good value" makes me think you don't truly pay attention to the 1911 market.

Colt's problem like so many others is college grads and greed. The craftsman isn't going to put up with much of there snot. It's what is ripping America apart right now. And has all but forced Colt through it's own funnel.

I only own one Colt now days, and I will never sell it. It's a government Korean era 1911. It shoots great and rattles like a can full of ball bearings. I've got far away from the 1911 over all and prefer plastic guns and have for years. It's like owning a Hemi Cuda years ago. My goodness what a car! But a little Mazda Speed3 will eat it's lunch now days. So my .45 acp combat weapon of choice today is my M&P .45.

Now when I bought my M&P I had set out to purchase a new Gov./GI so I could completely retire the old war horse. The goal was a Colt or Springer with S&W entertainment if the price was right. I got so frustrated that day looking at Colts that were awful. Barrels off center in the slide, sights rolled over. Controls that didn't want to work at all out of the box. And then the prices were through the roof. Much was the case with the springers and smiths I looked at that day. I then bought the M&P and like it a lot. And have a growing respect for it as a combat weapon. Colt lost out. I visited at least 8 shops that day. And boy O boy did I see some 1911 junk that day. Very depressing.

I've owned Colt's revolvers in the past. They are not hard to work on. You just have to understand the lock work and how they get there bank vault lock up. But imho they are no where near worth what folks seem to be willing to pay for them. Again kind of like that old Hemi Cuda. I myself do not like the stack that lends it's self to the great lock up. Nor the cylinder release.

SA,,,, other than trying to do historically correct. Ruger all the way!

Colt's college boy's and management have sold the company well short. There AR's are not 1% better than others. And no where near the asking price over all. I would rather have a AK than a Colt AR. So I have a AK. :)

We need Colt to step up as consumers. There product line is so short it is funny. Are they to set back and let Smith and Ruger own the DA revolver market. Can they not make a place for themselves between tank investment casting Rugers and mim laided locked up Smith? It's truly a shame Smith has went south a tad and Ruger has went up a tad in most peoples minds. And then there is Colt the snob company. And thats how a lot of folks see it.

It's truly a shame Smith has went severely south and Ruger has went up a tad in most peoples minds. And then there is Colt the snob company

fixed it for you!

Guillermo: My humble apologies.

Mixing up posters & quotes was my inexcusable screw-up.

Guillermo:

You wouldn't do that face to face.......

"And then there is Colt the snob company."

That's what I don't understand about these Colt bashing threads...why are they a snob company? There products are not overpriced. Sure when you compare them to some knockoff product made in another country, they are more expensive. But when compared to locally produced products they are competitive. See post 71 for example.

Bubba the gun store guru was challenged to name some similar products with similar features at similar prices...he cited 4 foreign manufactured pistols and even recommended a Para over a Colt...remind me never to shop in that gun shop with their wealth of misinformation.

Alan Dan chooses a Les Baer over a Colt SCGM (see post 63) although he misquotes the price of the Colt...they are really either 1600 or 1700 out the door (that means tax and paperwork) based upon my buying experience last year. I can't remember - deployed right now and don't have access to my safe.

When looking at a pistol in this price range, I looked at Wilsons, Baers, and Browns - all a little more expensive than the Colt SCGM. I chose a SCGM because it was available (ie no build wait) and because of longevity of the company. In other words, when someone like Les Baer and Ed Brown retires - who's going to work the kinks out of their guns should they present?

For example, when purchasing an item with a lifetime guarantee, it's not based upon your lifetime...it's based upon the company's. So, if the company fails eg Tasco, the guarantees usually go along with it.

Lastly, Colt does have enough product line for me. I'm not into the mall ninja plasticized products. They make SAA's, 1911's and M-4's as well as concealed type/small 1911 pistols.

Their 1911 line is over 100 years old...that's like 10 gazillion internet years Bubba ;)...and they have reliably kept the 38 super (I lust for one) and 10mm in their line up.

Their SAA's are basically unchanged as well and as referenced by Dennis are manufactured for basically a favor for Americans ie they are not a large moneymaker but they remain iconic.

One thing for sure...whether you say Colt...pull your hammer back and hear the four clicks C-o-l-t, flash the pony on your firearm, or just mention Colt on the internet...it will generate a lot of discussion.

Chindo post 66 was pure gold.

Hey, it made me want to go buy my uncle's old ratty 1980's Colt 1911. I mean hey it must be nearly free since it isn't a "proper" 1911. It rattles, it is picky about which hollow points will feed,and it even has a finish that is flatter than Oklahoma. Never mind that after 15,000 rounds the frame and slide are still in good shape. The fact that it still drills 4" groups free hand at 15 yards is not good enough. It is just a shoddy piece of jetsam that should be discarded.

The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated -- Mark Twain aka Sam ClemonsWe all gotta die sometime, why hurry things along? All firearms mfgs have some issues with someone or something in their lineup. Or their QC or CS, parts they use, where they're made, maybe the politics behind their top dogs decisions, unions, etc... C'est la vie

Back when I was a kid, in way of the 1911 model, there was Colt and there was... uh, Colt. Or old milsurp 45 autos bought cheaply. (I still like both categories, even if cheap is now much more expensive than then) Similar with SAAs and the AR platform tho' there were a few dozen Peacemaker clones around.

My, how (some) things have changed. Colt even has stainless models now ;)

Thank goodness we now have umptey dozen mfgs making the old Colt/JMB/Stoner designs, from big boys to boutique makers, loose to very tight, forged, cast, MIM, damascus, alloy (frames, even polymer), internal/external extraction, made here/made there... why, there's now something for everyone to gripe about should they so choose.

I, for one, am still glad the old Pony is alive and relatively well. The last 50 years have been interesting watching the ups and downs and ins and outs as they keep on keeping on while everyone and their brother are making the same darned guns (SAA, AR15, 1911s) yet the yardstick from which we measure was set up by... who again?

And if they do go TU? I got mine, they each work every time and I'm sure I could get a buck or two more for them than I have in them if need be... eh? (but hope to pass them on to grandkids) It's all good.

Life is good and still we debate the (expected) demise and reasons why certain makers should be dead. And yet...

Here's to a long(er) and prosperous continuation in the evolution of the company. YMMV

Chindo...no worries.

psychack...sure I would

5. You have a much different memory than mine. The 1970s produced guns that looked like they were made by a drunken UAW union worker 5 minutes before a strike. The 80s were not much better. The current Colts are some of the best ever.
6. You can get a Colt for under $1K, that has more forged and less MIM than anything else in the price range.

My first shooting experience, about 1980, was with Colt AR 15's, a 1911 Gold Cup, and a Colt Python, also a couple forged Springfield M1A's, and a select version of both the AR and the M1A/ really M-16 and M-14.

I just didn't get the Colt bug. I found all of their offerings priced high for the quality offered, and, found much better firearms produced by custom makers,
at the same price point. Detonics for one. A custom .45 Colt from John Linebaugh the other, and, I fell in love with the M1A. The AR 15's were accurate, I will say that, and easy to shoot. They just seemed expensive at the time, for what they were.

That said, that was my perception, and, considering those guns, how well they shot, I was wrong. As I bought rifles, I noticed none of my scoped rifles shot half as well at 100 yards, with a scope, as that AR and the M1A did with open sites. Plus, the Goldcup functioned perfectly, was very accurate, and had a great trigger. The DA trigger on the Python was smooth, but, I found it a bit heavy.

The Detonics did shoot more accurately then the Gold Cup.
What I found out later was the guns had all been custom tuned by their owner, a former armour for the US Navy.:o

I guess my point is our recollection, and judgement of the past can change with perspective. What I was shooting that day were the equal of 3000-40000
customs today(What is the going price for an M14 today)?
They all drove tacks, in the right hands, and yet that wasn't good enough, in my judgement, at the time. If I had it to do over, I probably should have bought the same rifles I got to shoot, have my friend custom tune them, he probably would have done it for free, and I would have had super match grade rifles for peanuts.

However, being new to guns, I didn't know that all rifles, out of the box, don't shoot 1/2-3/4" groups, with open sites, at 100 yards, at least not back then.

So, Colt has made it through to today. They are offering excellent values in new guns, with I gather, few, if any MIM parts, and, at a good price point.

More power to them.

Thanks to Obama, and the Democrats, the market has never been better for firearms. I think part of our value perception is correct, that the market is supply and demand, and, that the gunmakers are putting out more guns
then ever before, and, are charging higher prices then before. The combination of plants running 24/7 usually means a bit of diminished quality.

Colt makes some great pistols. I've been watching these disappear as fast as the appear in my local gun shops:

Nice WW2 era copy, O1911ANVIII
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/100thAnniversaryModels.aspx

Colt rail gun:
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtRailGun.aspx

Colt Special Gov:
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtSpecialCombatGovernment.aspx

I'd have no problem carrying any of those. They aren't LesBaer's or Dan Wesson's. But they're still decent 1911's in thier price class of under $1000. If you go over that you're better off with a LB or DW.

And Colt sells plenty of SAA revolver which are a ton of fun to shoot, not to mention the tons of 6920 rifles Colt sells.

Colt isn't going anywhere. Hopefully they'll streamline thier 1911 lineup and offer a high end 1911 line loaded with aftermarket parts and modern sights soon.

Colt is anything but dead, or dying. They're putting out some high-quality guns now...if you've not shot or handled one, do yourself a favor and go look at a couple.

This is just me talking, but what I see in the OP is someone wanting to complain that Colt isn't making what THEY think Colt should make (Python).

Everyone can say what they want, but the Wiley Clapp I bought functioned perfectly, but the trigger was so loose it that it rattled...loudly enough to be heard when you walked. There was notably side to side play in the slide to frame fit, the edges were so sharp it shredded holsters, and the front of the ejection port has a sharp protrusion. It has been sent back to Colt, but is almost a month late in being returned and neither I nor the Gunsmith I've been working with to liase on it has heard a thing.
I'd like the gun back, and as it said it never had a FTF so IF everything is fixed I'd consider carrying it, but overall would I buy another Colt 1911? Not from what I've see of CS so far, but it will depend on what they do to remedy the current situation.
I will say the M-4 is fantastic, and the 6920 is the Gold Standard...

Brent is the manager of the Colt Custom Shop and posts on the Colt forum and on the 1911 forum. His ID is "Bjt72".

Earlier this year he told us that a new double action revolver is in the works.
He won't/can't tell us any details.

Here is the thread: http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/34238-colts-2011-catalog-reactions-impressions.html

The timeline photos in the catalog are ment to pay tribute to milestones along our 175 year history, since it is our 175th this year. The Mustang will be made, it is at the SHOT show right now. The stainless steel SAA I'm told will be later this year and was not ready for catalog photos or SHOT.
Brent
PS: Yes, double actions are in the plans too. No Pythons at this time.