30-06 or .308? (Considering rifle purchase)


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Guns&Religion
July 1, 2011, 12:25 PM
I'm in the process of deciding which rifle to purchase. I'm looking for a multi-use hunting rifle, and I would like to use it for blacktail, whitetail, and mule deer. (I may possibly get a chance to hunt elk).

Is .308 powerfull enough for elk? If I go with the 30-06, is it too much for the smaller blacktail deer?

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HOOfan_1
July 1, 2011, 12:30 PM
I'd say there is no way the .30-06 is too much for blacktail.
I don't really see where getting either would be a mistake. The .30-06 will have a wider range of bullet weights from factory ammo though.

Robert
July 1, 2011, 12:33 PM
Second vote for the 30-06.

md7
July 1, 2011, 12:36 PM
Either would probably be just fine. 30-06 has a wider selection of bullet weights which kind of makes sense for a "multi purpose" gun.

'06 with proper placement should do fine on elk, .308 likely would also but I'm no expert on elk hunting. Never seen one in real life in all honesty.

Good new is, I don't think there is a bad choice here.

BullfrogKen
July 1, 2011, 12:38 PM
I don't see very much difference between the two in performance with modern powder. The only advantage 30-06 really has is a slight advantage with the heavy .30 caliber bullets. Even then it's pretty slight.

Personally, I like the short action of the .308, and the lesser powder charge weight. I reload, and I shoot about 1,000 rounds of .308 a year. Powder weights do become a factor with volume.

They're just not different enough to matter. I'd want some a little stronger than both for a big elk. And I've used my .308s on 8 or 9 dozen groundhogs. Of course, I'm not eating the meat. But you won't even notice the difference between .308 and .30-06 on a deer.

gotigers
July 1, 2011, 12:44 PM
I use a 30-06 for whitetail. I have many friends that use .308. Same model gun, Remington 7400. Both work just fine. If i ever wanted to competition shoot at distance, i would get a .308 bolt becaue there are more .308 match loads even though the 30-06 has little more range. For hunting the 30-06 has more choices in ammo.

Dr T
July 1, 2011, 12:53 PM
I have both. I like both. I would be comfortable with either in your applications (including the elk). My applications are whitetails, mule deer, elk, javalina, coyotes, bobcats, and mountain lions.

The 308 will have a slight performance advantage for bullets at 165 Gr. or less. For 165 gr. up, the 30-06 will do better.

My all purpose load (deer and elk) for the 308 is a Hornady Custom factory load with a 165 gr. Interlock bullet. My all purpose load for the 30-06 (in a Ruger No. 1 STRONG Action) is a very hot (2650 fps MV chorongraphed from a 20 inch barrel) 180 Hornady flatbase Interlock handload using H380 (and I will not provide data since, as I said, it is very hot).

The key to either is bullet placement and construction. The 308 definitely has less recoil and muzzle blast (despite the 16.5 inch barrel). It is easier to practice with. on bullet construction: I have been using the 30 caliber Hornady Interlocks for hunting for the last quarter century and have seen no need to go to a more elaborately constructed (and expensive) premium bullet.

The next decision is short action or long action (if it is a bolt gun). For some reason, I just prefer short action bolt guns. Both of my 30-06's are single shots (A No. 1 and a T/C Encore).

You really can't go wrong with either. They are both fine all around, do everything. cartridges.

Gregaw
July 1, 2011, 01:00 PM
These are the numbers from Remmington's website comparing 180gn Core-Lokt from both calibers. Very similar. I chose the .308 because I liked the gun I found.

Caliber:--------------30-06 Springfield----308 Win.
Energy @ 100 ft. (ft.-lbs.) 2457------------2309
Energy @ 200 ft. (ft.-lbs.) 2059------------1930
Energy @ 300 ft. (ft.-lbs.) 1713------------1601
Energy @ 400 ft. (ft.-lbs.) 1415------------1320
Energy @ 500 ft. (ft.-lbs.) 1161------------1080

Trajectory @ 100 ft.------2.1------------2.3
Trajectory @ 150 ft.------1.8------------2.0
Trajectory @ 200 ft.------zero------------zero
Trajectory @ 250 ft.------.-3.5----------.-3.8
Trajectory @ 300 ft.------.-8.9----------.-9.5
Trajectory @ 400 ft.------.-25.8---------.-27.7
Trajectory @ 500 ft.------.-52.7---------.-56.4

Edit: The website says ft., but it must mean yards. :)

colt1911fan
July 1, 2011, 01:04 PM
another for 30-06

Red_SC
July 1, 2011, 01:57 PM
I prefer .308 for the short action, I can throw a bolt without moving my eye from behind the scope. The bolt hits me in the face if I try that with a long action. Ballistically they're very similar if you shoot factory ammo, you can get hunting rounds for both but precision ammo is much more widely available for the .308.

OhioChief
July 1, 2011, 02:07 PM
Do you want bolt or semi-auto? I have a .308 AR10. Great for wild hogs and deer. Plenty of good choices in ammo. The AR style platform also allows a lot of options. my 2 cents.

Andrew Wyatt
July 1, 2011, 02:18 PM
it's hard to beat .308.

SN13
July 1, 2011, 02:27 PM
As a fan of both .270 win and .280 rem (based off the 30-06) I'd say go with the .308

Why? Because for what you want to do there is almost no difference. You can get many guns in .308 you can't find in .30-06. (Mag fed Semi-Autos and some match grade bolt actions mainly)

Sheepdog1968
July 1, 2011, 02:31 PM
The two hunting rifles I have are 30-30 lever and 30-06 bolt. With those two I'm happy. The only thing I don't like about the 30-06 (and it's all in my head) is the longer action and bolt (relative to the 308). I keep expecting to bolt to poke me in the eye when extracting and chambering a new round. I know it won't but it does seem to come further back. Having said that, had the Ruger Gunsite Scout been out when I was looking for my bolt action hunting rifle, I would have likely chosen that one. Both will kill a deer just fine.

USSR
July 1, 2011, 02:47 PM
Buy the rifle, not the cartridge. Look for a rifle that fits you and shoulders naturally. Either cartridge will do what you want it to.

Don

Nathanael_Greene
July 1, 2011, 02:58 PM
Well said, Don.

In my case, being left-handed means having a vastly reduced number of choices. I went with the .30-06, and haven't regretted it.

SeekHer
July 1, 2011, 03:06 PM
What ever the .30/06 can do so can the .308 do it just as well and in some cases better--except take bullets over 205 gr (which 98% of shooters will ever shoot or need) due to a smaller case size.

The .308, due to case design, produces a cleaner burn which gives you better accuracy although the .30/06 can be loaded hotter (again due to a larger case) it doesn't necessarily mean accuracy--usually it doesn't...The .308 can be reloaded cheaper--cases are cheaper and less powder.

This has been covered to death, ad nauseum, on this and every other gun thread out there.

There are no currently issued military rifles in .30/06--nor is there any desire to ever recreate one. which means access to droves of mil-surp ammo just isn't there (excluding nostalgia service rifle events).

On the other hand, there is presently the AR10/M21 platform and the M1/M14 in .308 semi auto and the M40 in a bolt action rifles in .308 as well as some squad level and vehicle mounted machine guns so tons of mil-surp ammo is available and will be available for some time.

Availability favours the .308 since it is a world wide calibre whereas the .30/06 was and is primarily a US hunting calibre and while popular in the USA it isn't elsewhere in the world although you'll probably find it in the big cities at gun stores...Those Euro makers who have models in .30/06 primarily do so for the US market only.

Guns & Religion -- All you have to do is change bullet weights between the three sizes of deer... Whitetail/Mulies 150 gr, Elk 180 gr (190 gr Berger) and Blacktail can be either 150 gr or if the coastal variety then maybe something like a 125 or 135 gr since they're such little things.

montanaoffroader
July 1, 2011, 03:36 PM
Six of one, half dozen of another. I wound up with a .30-06, my buddy found a deal on a .308, not much difference between the two in the field. I say grab the best deal for you regardless of which one of these rounds it chambers.

You really won't go wrong with either one.

Haxby
July 1, 2011, 04:58 PM
In a 22" barrel bolt rifle, there is not much difference between a 308 and a 30/06. For deer hunting, with 150 or 165 gr bullets, there is basically no difference at all.
In otherwise equal guns, the 308 kicks less. Not by a lot, but there is a difference.
Either one is going to be accurate. If it isn't, then there's a problem with the individual rifle, not the cartridge.
There are lots of ammunition choices for both, especially in the 150 to 180 gr range, which is all most hunters ever use. Ammo is easy easy to find. Both are easy to reload.
A short-action 308 with a 20" barrel is handy to have around and easy to carry in the woods.
A 24" 30/06 has a velocity advantage over the 308. This might extend the range at which a hunter feels comfortable taking a shot with a 180 gr bullet at an elk.
I have both. I don't have a favorite.

fragout
July 1, 2011, 05:04 PM
Buy the rifle, not the cartridge. Look for a rifle that fits you and shoulders naturally. Either cartridge will do what you want it to.

Don
=====================================================================================================================

+1 for the above reply to your question.

My hunting rifle is an M14S tanker....which = 308

Plenty of Military surplus out there for practice, per $$ spent in comparison.

More dedicated precision loads in 308 to boot:)

11B

Guns&Religion
July 1, 2011, 06:14 PM
Good Advice folks, thank you. I'm sure If I get one, it will only be a matter of time before I have the other.

Haxby
July 1, 2011, 06:28 PM
Well, yeah, the right answer is get both.

Google '30/06 vs 308' and it says there are 45,400,000 results.

ball3006
July 1, 2011, 07:03 PM
I have hunted with both. The deer didn't notice any difference. I shoot 3006 more just because I have more milsurps in that caliber.....chris3

Maple_City_Woodsman
July 1, 2011, 07:22 PM
Differences in capabilities between the two are minor, even on paper.

I would prefer a 30-06 myself, but only because it can perform a bit better with certain niche' hand loads, like very heavy bullets or low power TB loads.

aubie515
July 1, 2011, 07:51 PM
I don't see very much difference between the two in performance with modern powder. The only advantage 30-06 really has is a slight advantage with the heavy .30 caliber bullets. Even then it's pretty slight.

Personally, I like the short action of the .308, and the lesser powder charge weight. I reload, and I shoot about 1,000 rounds of .308 a year. Powder weights do become a factor with volume.

They're just not different enough to matter. I'd want some a little stronger than both for a big elk. And I've used my .308s on 8 or 9 dozen groundhogs. Of course, I'm not eating the meat. But you won't even notice the difference between .308 and .30-06 on a deer.
This is sound advice. I also prefer SA over LA and I don't see the need to get beat up with 06 recoil when the 308 will do well for my needs.

bryank30
July 1, 2011, 08:05 PM
.308 Winchester Light Magnums.

sansone
July 1, 2011, 08:25 PM
I'm gonna admit my lack of curly hair, 308 is more comfortable to shoot because of recoil being less than 30-06. My shot placement is better (no flinch). 30-06 may be better for elk but I have no experience there, just bullet weight and powder charge making that decision. If ammo cost matters than 308, if you aren't recoil sensitive 30-06 for more power

ms6852
July 1, 2011, 08:57 PM
Go with a 30-06 you can load a variety of bullets and use it for elk as well. In answer to your question yes the 308 is enough for elk.

BrocLuno
July 1, 2011, 09:04 PM
If you are considering a nice older lever, go 308 in a Savage 99. That'll get er done just fine and be fun too :)

wrs840
July 1, 2011, 09:58 PM
Guns&Religion, I just went through a long process of selecting my new "deer rifle" about seven months ago. I wanted a 30 cal bullet, and I was fairly certain of that early in the process, and I studied a lot and asked questions of folks that are more experienced than I am, regarding 30-06 vs. 308.

After all that, I agree with what Don said, shop the gun, not the cartridge. I went to a very well stocked Gander Mountain and picked up a lot of rifles, focusing mostly on Tikka, Ruger, Win 70s, and Savage. It was easy for me to quickly decide that a Savage 11FNS just felt "best" to me, by a wide margin too. It's a personal "fit" thing, along with how you like the feature set. I didn't end up buying at Gander, but being able to pick a lot of candidates up one after another was a big help.

SeekHer
July 2, 2011, 05:31 AM
If you're looking for a lever action then both the discontinued Savage 99 and the Winchester Model 88 are available in .308 only but the still going strong Browning BLR is available in both and is also offered in a takedown version...Pump action your limited to the Remington 74xx series in .30/06 and in single shots or bolt jobs every maker will accommodate you.

As stated, make sure you get a gun that fits you for length of pull but more importantly how you line up on your sights (iron or glass) when you snap it to your shoulder--so pay attention to the stock design.

Really muddy the waters but throw the Russian 7.52x54Rmm round and the British 7.7x57Rmm (.303 British) and the Japanese 7.7x58mm (.311) into the mix...All had ABOUT the same velocity, energy, accuracy and when built up in conversions or semi or full custom guns make great hunting rifles...Anything that the .30/06 (7.62x63mm) was converted to after the wars, .25/06, 6mm/06, .338/06, .375/06 etc. was also done with the .303 British and it could also handle 240 gr bullets...My uncle hunts with a .35/06 that duplicates the .35 Whelen

ball3006
July 2, 2011, 11:19 AM
I doubt if you would notice the difference in recoil between these calibers. Too many variables to consider, rifle weight, powder charge, bullet weight, shooting position, etc.....chris3

SeekHer
July 2, 2011, 03:07 PM
I notice the difference between the recoil of the rounds. I've seen comments from many people who noticed the difference. There's more to recoil than just the power of the cartridge. The weight of the bullet can make a big difference and generally people shoot lighter bullets in a .308. But the faster burning powders used in the .308 make a difference too. A 30.06 keeps pushing which makes it seem worse.
Sorry, but it is the amount of powder that creates recoil not bullet weight although it does play into Newton's Third Law somewhat but not significantly...If You shoot a 150 gr bullet over X amount of XYZ powder from a .308 or a .30/06 in a gun weighing the same the recoil will be exactly the same.

If you shoot the same powder load and in one use a 150 gr and the other a 180 gr bullet you will not detect any significant amount of recoil increase, actually you would find a small decrease since you're having to propel a heavier bullet, which takes longer to get moving and one of the tenets of recoil reduction is "delay"...I'm talking so small that you would need instruments to know it occurred.

To propel heavier bullets, they put larger charges of powder in the case so that 180 gr will shoot at about the same velocity as a lighter bullet.

Same thing with shotshells, everyone says that slugs recoil harder then bird shot--well, duh, they have twice the amount of powder in them but the projectile is the same weight, 1 ounce but that's because they're shooting down a 200 lb. deer not not a 5 lb duck.

BrocLuno
July 2, 2011, 06:41 PM
As far as felt recoil, stock design may be a bigger factor than the charge and bullet weight. Bad stocks hurt :(

Haxby
July 2, 2011, 07:42 PM
"Sorry, but it is the amount of powder that creates recoil not bullet weight"
Nope. It's both.

"If you shoot the same powder load and in one use a 150 gr and the other a 180 gr bullet you will not detect any significant amount of recoil increase, actually you would find a small decrease since you're having to propel a heavier bullet"
Nope.

"To propel heavier bullets, they put larger charges of powder in the case so that 180 gr will shoot at about the same velocity as a lighter bullet."
Nope. Totally incorrect.

Haxby
July 2, 2011, 08:09 PM
Jeff56 -

The bullet and the powder are both counted as mass in the equation. They both exit the end of the barrel, the powder mainly as gas.

Geckgo
July 2, 2011, 09:04 PM
Armchair physics and guns, gotta love it!

Getting back on topic, the .308 is a .30-06 short. I chose the -06 when I got my "deer" rifle, but for the sake of comparing the functional differences of the two cartridges, there really is none to note other than the regular stuff about bullets.

.30-06 is available in a wide range of bullets from the sporting goods store, from 125gr reduced recoil to 220gr monster bullets

.308 and 7.62 ammo for fun/plinking is widely availible and pretty cheap.

Garands are generally 30.06 guns, ARs are generally .308/7.62, what kind of autoloader might you be looking at someday?


When I bought my Remmy 700, I was sold on the "slightly more powerful" 30-06, but it truth, functionally, it's not that much more powerful.

.308 can generally take the same game as the 06, and 180gr bullet will work in either.

If you reload, everything except for the brass and the dies is pretty much interchangable. For a "hunting" gun, get whatever you like. If you will be doing a lot of shooting, I think the 308 might be a little easier on the pocketbook. If you are planning a trip to Africa, I would first suggest another weapon, but between the two would go with the 06 as it fills the heavy bullet niche a little better.

ball3006
July 2, 2011, 09:27 PM
If you are afraid of the recoil of a 308 or 3006, then either cartridge is not for you. Buy a smaller caliber rifle. Trying to come up with a load, powder and bullet, that has less recoil is defeating the purpose of even owning a rifle in 308 or 3006....chris3

bobnob
July 2, 2011, 10:23 PM
If I was in the market for a rifle, chasing the range of game you are after, I would go for a short action 338 Federal with a handy 22 inch barrel.

We don't have Elk down here, but we have Sambar deer and they are BIG suckers. You can't legally hunt them with anything under .277 calibre and at least 51mm cartridge length. So it has to be a 7mm-08 at least, or a .270 Win.

So if an Elk is as big or bigger than a Sambar, get something that will allow you to deliver a decent weight bonded projectile in case your shot angle is less than ideal.

I would go the 30-06 over a 308 if I only had the two to choose from.

1stmarine
July 3, 2011, 12:40 AM
Both great options with TSX 168gr or 180gr.
You will get a little extra speed with the 30.06 but longer action and a tad more expensive to reload.
with the .308 win you find great deals of FMJ ammo for practicing and great brass for reloads more affordable. + short action.
Also you have more system options in incredible accurate out of the box packages.
it is hard to go wrong with either.

Salty1
July 6, 2011, 09:26 PM
I faced a very similar decision as I was invited to hunt private land in Colorado for elk in October. I did a lot of research and ended up with the Tikka T3 lite in stainless chambered in 30-06. The reason I picked the cartridge over the 308 and 300 Win Mag was availability in even remote areas if required and the various hunting cartridges available. I zero'd it last weekend for 3 inches high at 100 yards and the 3 shot groups were within a quarter size, not bad for my old eyes. I found a great site for elk hunting and he also talks about calibers and zero, worth a read....

[http://elkhunter2.tripod.com/index.html

Kachok
July 7, 2011, 02:12 AM
After many hours of reserching it comes down to this.
If you hunt anything larger then deer go 30-06
If you plan on more long range target shooting then big game hunting go 308
The 200-240gr bullets give the 06 a clear advantage on elk-moose game
The shorter action and lighter recoil give the 308 an advantage on punching paper.
For hunting deer within realistic ranges flip a coin you cannot go wrong either way. Both do the job well with minimal fuss. Personaly I like 30-06 just because it is a tad more versatile, and there is alot of history behind that cartrage.

paradox 12
July 7, 2011, 02:37 AM
I'm in the process of deciding which rifle to purchase. I'm looking for a multi-use hunting rifle, and I would like to use it for blacktail, whitetail, and mule deer. (I may possibly get a chance to hunt elk).

Is .308 powerfull enough for elk? If I go with the 30-06, is it too much for the smaller blacktail deer?
i would go with 308 it kills people so it must be strong enough for mules ask any police sharp shooter or milatary sniper

Geckgo
July 7, 2011, 03:49 AM
what the?,, eeep!!!

Gtscotty
July 7, 2011, 08:13 AM
Well, I don't have any physicists in my immediate family, but I did do my capstone design project on rifle recoil reduction, and the equation we wound up using (came straight out of an old school engineering text on field artillery) took both bullet weight and powder weight into account, although bullet weight had much more effect on recoil than the gasses from burning powder.

On the topic at hand, unless you are specifically looking for a lighter weight short action rifle, I would go with the 30-06. I know that the .308 is plenty powerful for deer, but when you start looking at the mid to heavy bullet weights, the 30-06 with hot loads really runs away from a similarly loaded .308.
From Lyman's 49th
max loads from each cartridge/bullet weight

________150gr 165gr 180gr
.308 (fps) 2996 2756 2578
30-06(fps) 3012 2959 2840
300 WM(fps) 3247 3103 2987

Now, we all know that any of the above 3 will kill deer at ranges well beyond what 99% of people can hit them at, but, I just wanted to put that up there to make a point. When people say that the .308 is the total equivalent (or even more powerful) than the '06, this equivalency is only really valid at 150 gr bullet weights. From 165 gr on up, the 30-06 is much closer to the 300 win mag than the .308 in terms of speed and power.

Sav .250
July 7, 2011, 08:16 AM
Both will do the job but the "06" would be my personal choice.

Kachok
July 7, 2011, 09:42 AM
Actually the 30.06 is known to be more stable at longer distances because it can fire heavier bullets which are less affected by the wind. That's common knowledge type thing that in reality probably isn't going to matter much IMO but I don't have anywhere to shoot long ranges around my area so I can't say for sure either way. I just know I've seen a lot of posts on boards where people say the 30.06 will do better at longer distances.
Do not agree. The 06 has a better trajectory by a small margin, but the 308 replaced it in long range shooting. Shorter powder charges have slightly better consistancy in fps variation that is why nearly every all custom benchrest rifles use short action calibers (6.5x284, 6mm PPC.....etc) now that is a vey small difference and you would have to be punching paper past 600 yards for any noticable improvement. I have not seen a 30-06 win any benchrest match in many years, have you? That takes nothing away from it as a hunting caliber though where those heavy bullets really shine, for real world killing power I personaly put alot more stock in the SD/momentum formula than any KE based system.

nortexeric
July 7, 2011, 09:43 AM
Another vote for "Buy the rifle, not the cartridge"

With that said, either caliber is fine for what you're wanting to do. Although, I have noticed the rifles seem to be cheaper in 30-06 vs .308, example being the Savage rifle and scope combo from Gander Mtn. $400 for the 30-06 vs $600 for the short actions (.308). On the other end of the spectrum you have ammo costs, .308 being the cheaper to buy from what I've seen. Monarch and a few others even have .308 at $6 for 20 rnds. Sure, its crappy ammo, but if your just trying to get trigger time and work your technique more, that's a big plus. Of course, you can always reload.

Anyways, point is this: Find a rifle you like that feels good and that you'll be happy with and it'll all work out in the end.

-Eric

Flatbush Harry
July 7, 2011, 09:46 AM
I have two .30-06s (Savage 116, Win M70 Extreme Weather) and a .308 (Rem 700 SPS SS). All three are capable of <1MOA shooting with my preferred hunting loads (either Nosler 168gr BT or Barnes 168gr TSX/TTSX) off a Caldwell lead sled. I'm equally confident in all three and in both cartridges. I wouldn't hesitate to choose either round. Go with the cartridge that your rifle in which you have the greatest confidence shoots.

FH

SeekHer
July 7, 2011, 10:14 AM
"Sorry, but it is the amount of powder that creates recoil not bullet weight"
Nope. It's both.

"If you shoot the same powder load and in one use a 150 gr and the other a 180 gr bullet you will not detect any significant amount of recoil increase, actually you would find a small decrease since you're having to propel a heavier bullet"
Nope.

"To propel heavier bullets, they put larger charges of powder in the case so that 180 gr will shoot at about the same velocity as a lighter bullet."
Nope. Totally incorrect.
Sorry, but "Yep" it is.

Take for example the S&W Model 500 in .500 S&W—the most powerful commercial handgun cartridge there is…Using the same 440 gr bullet I can make that into a pussy cat or a tiger or something somewhere in-between by just adding or reducing the powder charge.

SPECIFICATIONS

Bullet Diameter: .500 in.

Max Overall Length: 2.250 in.

Case Capacity: 64.8 gr. water

NOMINAL PERFORMANCE

Bullet Weight: 440 gr

Muzzle Velocity: 1625 fps

Muzzle Energy: 2581 ft-lbs


440 gr Cast
Velocity…..Energy
Fps………..ft/lbs
1191…..1386

1278…..1596

1300…..1651

1393…..1896

1483…..2149

1496…..2187

1509…..2225

1609…..2530

1653…..2670

1654…..2674…..All fired from a 10” barrel

Difference is in the amount and/or type of powder used but it’s still a 440 gr bullet exiting the same barrel of the same gun there will be a noticeable difference between the top and bottom load.

You have to get your projectile up to its proper speed to aide in its optimal expansion upon contact…Chart below shows that by keeping the same powder charge, by changing the weight of the bullet reduces velocity and subsequently energy…With the 150 gr Berger you needed different weight of different powders to achieve the same velocity but if you increased the bullet weight and kept the type and volume of powder the same velocity decreased…To get a heavier bullet to travel at a higher speed you have to add more of the same powder or substitute a different powder that will produce a higher velocity i.e. 54 gr of VVN150 produced nearly the same velocity (-22 fps) as 56 gr of H414..

BERGER 150 GRAIN HP
54.0….. VVN 150………..3032
56.0….. H414…………….3010

SIERRA 168 MATCH KING
54.0…..VVN 150……………2951
53.0….. H414………….……2798

SIERRA 180 GRAIN MATCH KING
54.0….. VVN 150…………2759
53.0….. H414……………..2789

BERGER 185 GRAIN BT
57.0…..VVN160………….2739

BERGER 190 GRAIN
57.0…..VVN160…………..2719

BERGER 210 GRAIN BT
57.0…..VVN160…………..2698

Info found at the Ammo Guide, Reloaders Bench and Accurate Reloading as I don’t have my newest powder and bullet manuals here.

Excluding reducing the amount of powder in the case, there are only four things that you can do to a firearm to reduce felt recoil:
Disburse/Disturb—Gas system in semi auto and install devices like Muzzle brakes and Mag-na-port, etc.
Delay—Recoil pads and/or absorbing stocks
Re-direct—Stock shape
Increase weight—Mercury tubes as an example to slow down the pressure.
That’s it, nothing else—anything out there is just a variant or combination of the above.

Sig88
July 7, 2011, 10:28 AM
Both are great calibers but I vote for the 30-06. It is a fun and great round.

Art Eatman
July 7, 2011, 12:06 PM
Figuring that most deer-type critters are generally killed inside of a couple of hundred yards, and that the OP is not a handloader:

There's not a nickel's worth of practical difference between a .308 and a .30-'06. Both shoot a 150-grain bullet at very nearly the same muzzle velocity, and not very differently with a 165.

Gtscotty
July 7, 2011, 12:54 PM
Figuring that most deer-type critters are generally killed inside of a couple of hundred yards, and that the OP is not a handloader:

There's not a nickel's worth of practical difference between a .308 and a .30-'06. Both shoot a 150-grain bullet at very nearly the same muzzle velocity, and not very differently with a 165.

With 165gr pills, that is more true about 30-06 and 300 wm than it is about .308 and 30-06, but yes, the effect on the deer will be similar.... Thats why I voted 30-06, not a huge difference, but in my opinion, unless you want a short action, or plan to only use 150gr bullets, why not opt for the extra ~200 fps the '06 gives with heavier bullets? Especially since, at least around here, there is no premium in rifle and ammo cost for 30-06 over .308.

Leaky Waders
July 7, 2011, 01:10 PM
Buy the action...if it's a long action get her in 3006, if it's a short action then get her in 308...there's really no sense in buying a long action in 308.

IlikeSA
July 7, 2011, 01:24 PM
I picked 30-06 for myself, just because it is a classic round, my daddy shot it, and it was what I grew up with. I have a Winchester 670 and can work the bolt without moving my face as well, so the short action/long action debate doesn't have an effect on me. Get the rifle that fits you, and then worry about the caliber. In this case, I don't think it makes to much of a difference, even for elk hunting.

Haxby
July 7, 2011, 01:29 PM
Seek Her -

There are plenty of recoil calculators on line. They're easy to find.

You can't just keep adding powder to raise the velocity of a heavier bullet. Pressure.

Sheepdog1968
July 7, 2011, 09:56 PM
Preceived recoil is a very subjective thing. Shooting position (bench vs off-bench) can also make a huge difference. I don't have a problem with recoil but prefer less if I can get it. I've found that Pachymer Limbsavers make it feel as if the recoil is cut into half. From what I've read is that they spread out the energy of the recoil over a longer period of time so it feels like less recoil. It kind of fits with when I've heard people say it's more like a shove than a sharp jolt. Two things I've found that greatly can help:

1. Add a Pachymer limbsaver to the rifle. Will help you flinch less when practicing.
2. For practice, I've found that the Remington Managed Recoil rounds are awesome. They claim a 40% reduction in recoil and from my hands on use (plus that of my brother and a close friend) I believe them. I know they are available in many calibers (30-06 and 30-30 are the only ones I looked at) For my 30-30, it seems to have more recoil than it should and after about 40 rounds of range practice I've ususally had enough. With the Remington Reduced recoil 30-30, I kid you not, it feels as if I am shooting a semi auto 223. During practice, you can use these managed recoil rounds so you get more flinchless practice in). When you hunt, you can then use your normal hunting round.

Oathkeeper1775
July 8, 2011, 02:53 AM
I shoot R788 in .308. I used 180 grain in the southeast 30-100 meters ,on hogs, wild dogs and white tails, then I switched to 150 grain out here in western oregon 75-250 meters after I missed my one and only miss.

It was a Roosevelt Elk, he was 320 yards away and way-way down in a canyon. The elevation diference and a snow-covered fir limb at 200 meters got me. Snow and rain on the scope, toughest shot I ever made. I often wonder what would have happened if I had an Od 6 that day.

After that miss, I switched to 150 grain and I am on target again at 260-
300 meters out and 150 meters down. Muzzle to target elevation difference maters big time; and it occurs most of the time out here.

When I shoot side by side with my buddy, we are 150 meters above the targets and 300 meters away; (we aim at the same paper plate) his Od 6 in 180 grain strikes the exact same place as my .308 does. I don't know about energy or FSP. We thought is was a coincidence but ten shots each and they hit the same place.

Previous comments about picking the rifle then the caliber are correct, also consider the true limitations of the calibers and yourself. Some rifles don't handle the caliber well enough to exploit the capabilities of an Od 6..An Od 6 would put me in the ER.

There is something about a .308 though; the balance, economy and effectiveness in the 150 to 180 Grain bullets at the appropriate ranges.

Some data I got a while ago, PM and I can give you the entire word doc.

Cartridge (Wb@MV) Bullet BC 100 yds. 200 yds. MRT@yds.

.308 Win. (150 BT at 2800) .435 +2.7" +1.7" 3"@135 275
.30-06 (180 Sp at 2700) .483 +2.7" +1.5" 3"@125 269


I seen plenty of elk taken with both. The 150 Gr in .308 does the job with well placed shots (provided
you avoid snow-covered fir limbs)

tehweej
July 8, 2011, 03:10 AM
I have a Savage 116 in 30-06 and love it. 168gr FailSafe's are what I shoot for elk, and this last season it did the job at 550yds (estimated). My dad likes the 300WM with 180s, but I picked the '06 for its "all-around-ability"

Mike1234567
July 8, 2011, 01:00 PM
RE: AMMO COST...

There's a GB seller with 20 round boxes of Federal 180gr Power-Shok for less than $13 per box. He's advertising lots of 1000 for $1290 but he'll sell smaller lots with a fixed shipping cost of $12. He says he has a LOT available. I bought 1200 rounds. I haven't shot any yet but it appears to be in good shape.

ETA: This is .30-06 ammo.

1stmarine
July 8, 2011, 10:47 PM
I am probably not saying anything new that has not been said before but with either choice is hard to go wrong.
I don't think that it is worth discussing too much about differences between these two.

Simple considerations.
If you like short action .308win but I don't personally have an issue with either long or short in a bolt.
If you have an AR-10 might want to keep all your systems in the same ammunition department.

They both have awesome loads for anything you can think of.
There is nothing in this continent that cannot be taken down by either, it is a matter of what range and keep it reasonable. Know you charts and your dope and your hunting bullets and you should be ok.
Anyway for long reach and hard punch one needs to look into the magnums but it is not justifiable for deer, black bear, hogs, elk and many other most common uses. Even Grizzlies and Moose have been taken down by these at moderate range using the best hunting .308 bullets like partitions and barnes TSX.

They both are military based an both have a huge offspring.
The .308 win replaced the 30.06 for military use and offers adequate performance with an smaller footprint.

They both are super popular, affordable and easy to reload.

For the occasional extra punch people customize their .308win to perform in the same range as 30.06 loads (long barrels and slow powders)
but of course the .30.06 can be pumped up too.

One can find great surplus deals in .308win for practice with great brass but there are also good bulk sales for 30.06 although it is a tad more costly to shoot.

Check superformance loads from hornady.

Cheers,
E.

Ogham
July 9, 2011, 08:35 PM
i would say get a .308 but the truth is that my hunting rifle is a 30-06.

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