3" @ 1500 yards?


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zahc
January 18, 2004, 07:05 PM
One of my relatives says 'someone' just set a new record and shot a 5 shot group @ 1500yd. I don't believe it.

Do you think it is possible?

Did it actually happen?

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Tag
January 18, 2004, 07:11 PM
with the main cannon on an M1 maybe... :scrutiny:

P95Carry
January 18, 2004, 07:25 PM
With benchrest stuff these days ..... ''possible'' ...... but unlikely. Conditions would have to have been as ideal as they could get IMO.

If it were fact - I'd like a full heads up ....... cos it would be remarkable for sure. I assume we are talking ''normal'' calibers.!!

zahc
January 18, 2004, 07:33 PM
.50 BMG

Remember I don't know if the person was for real or not but it did get me thinking.

Mal H
January 18, 2004, 07:37 PM
It's hard to believe if the group was made by a human pulling the trigger using a standard bench rest setup. But, I learned long ago to never say anything is impossible.

Chuck Dye
January 18, 2004, 08:43 PM
3 inches at 1500 yards is 0.1910 MOA. At shorter ranges, that has been beaten more than a few times, see http://www.benchrest.com/records.htm. With that much extra range, the normal atmospheric chaos has all that much more opportunity to spread the group. As my signature line says, sure would like to see the data!

Chipperman
January 18, 2004, 08:46 PM
3" at 300 yards would be approx 1 MOA, right?
1500 yards is 5 times 300, so that would make the group 1/5 or 0.20 MOA!!!

Did I do that math correctly? (I know the % error in the 1" for 100 yards will grow with distance)

That's some pretty crazy accuracy!!

Dave R
January 18, 2004, 08:56 PM
I would have to wonder if random dispersion just sent those rounds close together. If it could be repeated, I'd be REAL impressed. It must have been still air. Any movement at all and the rounds would disperse more than that.

MOAMike
January 18, 2004, 10:16 PM
A lot of the heavy class .50 cal guns are guns only in the sense that they have a barrel. They weigh in excess of 50-75 lbs, don't have a stock, and resemble a rail gun. They're ultra precise, but made for one thing......the long range benchrested shot. The human factor is nearly eliminated, with the only thing the shooter does is to calculate the wind data, spin drift, and "pull" the trigger, which a majority of the time isn't even a trigger.

Yeah, it's neat, but I'm not impressed. It's more of a machine than a gun.

What impresses me is a shooter behind a bipod-mounted LR rig making a 1k yard shot with a real gun. Leave the rail guns to folks with bottomless pockets and huge egos. I have respect for the skilled marksman who can take his rig anywhere.

No disrespect intended to the HBR crowd. ;)

Cheers,
Mike

six 4 sure
January 19, 2004, 12:02 AM
Is it possible, probably, did it really happen doubtful. Sounds like someone took some liberty with the Threat Matrix epsiode a month of so ago where they were claiming 6" groups @ 1500 yards using a .30 cal sniper rifle. Sounds like hollywood to me. Truth of fiction, I put more stock in my sig below.

six

SodaPop
January 19, 2004, 12:10 AM
I wonder what the MOA accuracy is for the NASA guys that shot a rover to mars.:neener:

Art Eatman
January 19, 2004, 08:49 AM
SodaPop, you can't make mid-course corrections on a bullet. NASA has a bit of an advantage...

:), Art

cratz2
January 19, 2004, 09:42 AM
I know several very talanted shooters including one that, with his 25-06 benchrest rifle and handloads, can pretty consistantly make about a .28" or .29" hole with three shots. If I've learned one thing from him, it's that you should never, ever, EVER! EVER! EVER! bet against someone that knows his rifle that well.

But that's a lot of distance. If an extremely good shooter fired 1,000 groups over a couple years, I can see one group being that small... A guy that can shoot two groups like that on a single day has a direct connection with God or something because there's too much going against you at that sort of distance.

Mal H
January 19, 2004, 12:03 PM
Art, perhaps the shooter is using the 3 KM tube at SLAC (Stanford Linear Accelerator). That would eliminate any wind problems and you could use the magnets along the way for mid-course corrections. Hmmmm........
Should be able to get .00003 MOA accuracy that way.

:D


Or not!

45R
January 19, 2004, 10:46 PM
It was a laser :)

HerbG
January 20, 2004, 09:21 PM
It's possible as a fluke, but the important question is: Can it be repeated? Sort of like the guy who recently had two holes-in-one during one round of golf. The odds were astronomical the first time, and he sure isn't likely to repeat it.

mummac
January 21, 2004, 03:19 AM
Well not just repeating it but coming close a few times. I mean, if the guy had two 6" groups that day, I would say the three incher is legit not just luck.

VG
January 21, 2004, 09:04 PM
After reading the book "Jarhead" in which a former Marine Sniper named Swofford claimed he could shoot "dime sized" groups at 1,000 meters, I posted an inquiry on the Firing Line forum at jouster.com (run by former Marine Sniper trainer Major Dick Culver). Because it sounded like bull excrement to me....

It turns out that the world record for a 1,000 meter group is something over 2". A 1,000 yard 2.316" group was recorded by Lilja rifle barrels during a break in session. But competition 1,000 yard groups run from just under 5" to 8" for 10 shots. The smallest I could find a record of was 3.316". The difference between 1,000 and 1,500 yards or meters for a rifle round would be immense.

Tank cannons are quite accurate, especially on the move, because modern U.S. (and other) tanks have fire control systems with laser range finders and fire control computers that track air density, cross wind, and other factors that affect the ballistic trajectory. Finding a target that would stand up to 10 shots is kind of tough anyway.....

rock jock
January 21, 2004, 10:57 PM
Two shots, maybe. Three shots improbable, but still possible. Five shots, nope, I don't believe it. And yes, I'll take that bet.

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