NRA petition to fire AG Holder


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Ryanxia
July 4, 2011, 11:38 AM
https://www.nra.org/fireholder/

For all the good it will do :D

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Vartarg
July 4, 2011, 11:49 AM
His boss approves of the great job he's doing:cuss:

IMHO a waste of time.....beat O in 2012 and the whole lot of them will be gone!:D

Zundfolge
July 4, 2011, 05:31 PM
I dunno if firing Holder is a good idea ... he might be replaced by someone both evil AND competent.

Ryanxia
July 4, 2011, 05:38 PM
LMAO Zundfolge

wild cat mccane
July 4, 2011, 10:02 PM
yeah the NRA has been SOOO right about this administration taking everyone's gun.

FEAR FEAR be our voting base. yawn

langenc
July 4, 2011, 10:35 PM
This admin has prevented shooters from getting some millions of M1s back from Korea , as I remember.

Doesnt appear your are an NRA member so why does the NRAs activities bother you??

whalerman
July 5, 2011, 03:02 AM
One more Supreme Court justice appointee, and Obama WILL take your guns away. We are very close to losing all of it. I agree with Vartarg. The entire bowl needs flushing.

KJS
July 5, 2011, 04:36 AM
The gun-grabbers use NRA as a slur. It's become the new 'N-word.'

If they want to discredit someone, which is far easier than actually engaging in serious debate, they simply label them as an "NRA minion." It seems they believe I joined the NRA in 2009 and upgraded to life member in January 2010 because I'm a mindless fool needing the NRA to tell me what I'm supposed to think.

I'm an NRA member because I independly concluded gun-grabbers need to be stopped and the NRA is the most effective means available for achieving that goal. I think independently and don't automatically agree with the NRA on every last detail.

Even more shocking, I don't sleep with a gun under my pillow, nor do I cling to religion as Obama officially states. I'm an atheist, so religion fails to do anything for me. I also am not an enthusiastic Republican. I'm very strongly libertarian, forced to vote for morons with an 'R' following their name simply because their pile stinks marginally less than the pile produced by the 'L' crowd of elected morons.

langenc
July 5, 2011, 10:40 AM
We all have trouble at the voting booth-voting AGAINST someone instead of FOR someone. We always end up w/ a little evil and that is like a little pregnant--IT GROWS. We have to use the scalpel to end some (many?) of those careers. Too bad we had to vote for them in the first place.

There are those who vote for one party regardless of who is running, Kruschev, maybe. They would vote cause he has the correct letter after his name. Grandpa voted that way and so di I, they say.

Ryanxia
July 5, 2011, 10:52 AM
Well you know what they say... :D

Davek1977
July 7, 2011, 07:33 AM
yeah the NRA has been SOOO right about this administration taking everyone's gun.

No, they haven't "taken people's guns away". Instead, they empowered the BATFE to put guns in the hands of Mexican drug cartels in a misguided attempt to blame US gun owners for the chaos south of our boarder....to lay the groundwork for future gun control regulations. Obama has been quoted as saying he was pursuing gun control "under the radar". Why don't you believe him?

publius
July 7, 2011, 09:32 AM
they empowered the BATFE to put guns in the hands of Mexican drug cartels

More specifically, in the hands of at least one cartel customer who was also an FBI informant paying with US taxpayer dollars, according to Issa and Grassley's letter to Holder. So our government was chasing its own tail.

The latest revelation is that the Tampa ATF office was "walking" guns to Honduras (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/breaking-news-source-claims-atf-s-tampa-sac-walked-guns-to-honduras).

The most astonishing thing to me is that we have a politically volatile Bill of Rights issue, it is threatening an agency head and may well go higher, we have a dead federal agent or two and 150 plus dead Mexicans, we have accusations that the Attorney General has obstructed justice and lied to Congress in this case, and yet the Washington Post still has not yet printed exactly what the government did. No one in the mainstream media seems to want to ask AG Holder the obvious question about his testimony in May that he learned of this scandal a few weeks earlier. (For Washington Post readers: the obvious question is, "Did you not get Senator Grassley's letter of January 31, or just not open it?")

publius
July 7, 2011, 09:42 AM
A journalist's guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part One (http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/a-journalist-s-guide-to-project-gunwalker)

With regard to the role of the NRA in this scandal, it's fun to take a look at that page, assembled by the guys who broke this story. Search the page for the word "weinermobile."

mljdeckard
July 7, 2011, 07:07 PM
Pay close attention to what Zundfolge said. Particularly if he wins reelection. There will be some staff shakeups, I think at least Holder and Geithner will have to go. WHO KNOWS who would replace them. Then Obama would have nothing to lose.

And to wild cat and whomever else has convinced themself that Obama is gun friendly, remember that there is a BIG difference between WANTING to go after guns, and being in a position to be ABLE to go after them. Influence from people like us and the clout the NRA has is the only thing keeping him from moving it to the top of the to-do list. If he gets reelected, the list gets re-written.

Lakedaemonian
July 7, 2011, 09:59 PM
yeah the NRA has been SOOO right about this administration taking everyone's gun. FEAR FEAR be our voting base. yawn __________________ If I call democrats evil/satan ruled my sig is fine. If I question the stupidity of conservatism, then I get a warning.

The thing to worry most about is not the direct attack that most hope for, but the flank attack that no one sees coming. What worries me even more than that is the prospect of more [folk] like yourself that are registered voters.

wow6599
July 8, 2011, 12:50 AM
One more Supreme Court justice appointee,

This is what really scares me...........

Double Naught Spy
July 8, 2011, 09:21 AM
If they want to discredit someone, which is far easier than actually engaging in serious debate, they simply label them as an "NRA minion."

And we do the exact same moronic thing by labelling the opposition as "liberals," such as the "liberal media." When they misclassify some gun attribute, they are idiots. When a progun expert on TV or in a gun magazine does it, he made a mistake.

Double standard?

Heck we are so embroiled in double standards that we often invoke bizarre conspiracy theories to explain away problems. When there is an ND at a gun show or a re-enactor negligently shoots another person, we are inclined to note the possibility of anti-gun liberals sneaking live ammo into guns to cause these problems instead of noting incompetence.

yeah the NRA has been SOOO right about this administration taking everyone's gun.

That was the repeated claim over and over and it spread like wildfire and spurred the biggest civilian run on guns ever, making Obama "Salesman of the Year" in the gun industry.

No, they haven't "taken people's guns away". Instead, they empowered the BATFE to put guns in the hands of Mexican drug cartels in a misguided attempt to blame US gun owners for the chaos south of our boarder....to lay the groundwork for future gun control regulations. Obama has been quoted as saying he was pursuing gun control "under the radar". Why don't you believe him?

I love it, we are supposed to believe Obama when he says something threatening, not believe him if he says something concillatory. The democrats are incompetent and lazy when it comes to doing anything good, but skilled planners and diligent workers when it comes to taking our guns.

One more Supreme Court justice appointee, and Obama WILL take your guns away. We are very close to losing all of it.

We are always just on the verge of disaster, even when we aren't. We just knew gun sales were going to stop as soon as Obama was elected and somehow we scared ourselves silly, driving up prices, many of which have never recovered.

The petition against AG Holder isn't going to change a thing officially, and the NRA knows it. They are simply going through the motions of making a longer term protest as petitions seem to circulate longer than simply news blurbs. Think of it as an alternative form of advertising, a bit of misrepresentation because they really aren't trying to remove Holder as they know that it will never happen. The NRA knows the democratic administration isn't going to pay any real attention to a right wing petition and they know that anti-gun folks aren't going to sign anything NRA. You can sign it, but know that you are not signing it because the NRA really believes it will do anything to get holder removed. Know you are signing it to support some unstated agenda, one of those sort of flank attack tactics Lakedaemonion worries about happening to us.

publius
July 8, 2011, 09:28 AM
One more Supreme Court justice appointee,

This is what really scares me........

It probably should not. The Supreme Court was sort of dragged into finally setting a second amendment precedent. It would be a big surprise to me if they quickly reversed it. They are not big on reversing themselves, though it does happen.

Consider the politics that would follow. There was something of a backlash to Kelo vs New London, and the decision and the entire subject of eminent domain have become somewhat politically radioactive since.

cbrgator
July 11, 2011, 01:38 PM
It probably should not. The Supreme Court was sort of dragged into finally setting a second amendment precedent. It would be a big surprise to me if they quickly reversed it. They are not big on reversing themselves, though it does happen.
No, they will not likely reverse themselves, but they will manipulate their way around the decision to the point that they may as well have reversed. Instead of reversing Heller, a liberal court would just fail to strike down any challenged gun laws. If they find any and all gun control laws constitutional (including city-wide bans not in a federal districts i.e. Chicago), it would achieve the same effect as a reversal. Look at what the 4 liberals did in McDonald, despite Heller's holding just 2 years earlier. If anyone is familiar with the Slaughterhouse Cases, that is a perfect example of what I am referring to.

What's the point of petitioning for Holder to resign? He is going nowhere except upon direction from the President. Tell him how you feel next November with your vote.

Old krow
July 11, 2011, 02:15 PM
I love it, we are supposed to believe Obama when he says something threatening, not believe him if he says something concillatory. The democrats are incompetent and lazy when it comes to doing anything good, but skilled planners and diligent workers when it comes to taking our guns.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. :D

Double Naught Spy
July 11, 2011, 02:24 PM
But not a digital one! ;)

rajb123
July 11, 2011, 03:01 PM
Eric Holder should go. However, he is a political appointee and so many of Obama's machine have left recently, it would be very hard for the Obama administration to push him out right now.

I would prefer that he be indicted by a state (Texas) or local jusridiction. As AG, he was sworn to uphold the law and Eric's legal sting operation did not do so.

If convicted in a state or local jurisdiction, a short sentance - say 30 years jail time, is appropriate.

cbrgator
July 11, 2011, 03:56 PM
I would prefer that he be indicted by a state (Texas) or local jusridiction. As AG, he was sworn to uphold the law and Eric's legal sting operation did not do so.

If convicted in a state or local jurisdiction, a short sentance - say 30 years jail time, is appropriate.
Not a good idea.

alsaqr
July 11, 2011, 10:51 PM
The petition against AG Holder isn't going to change a thing officially, and the NRA knows it.

+1

A poster on another site called it an exercise in mental masturbation: That's exactly what it is.

KJS
July 15, 2011, 06:01 AM
Obama has been quoted as saying he was pursuing gun control "under the radar". Why don't you believe him?

I hadn't seen that quote before, though I have no doubt about his hatred of gun rights.

I can't recall any public statement out of Obama nor his administration since February 2009 when, only a few weeks into his new job, AG Eric Holder stated it was the Obama administration's intent to bring back the AWB ban. I gather they're REALLY anti-gun when he has this so high on his to-do list that he's saying that almost immediately upon starting the job. Makes it look like a very high priority.

After that Obama & Co. seem to learn to shut up, finding that such statements simply sent herds of people running to buy every AK, AR, and strip shelves totally bare of handgun ammo. I remember stopping by a Gander Mtn store in May 2009 and they literally had no handgun ammo at all. I don't mean they had little, I mean zip, unless you count some .22LR.

A local gun shop has Obama's pic on the wall, captioned "Gun Salesman of the year," a richly deserved title. Ironically, a man who love to have every gun vanish from the face of the earth unintentionally causes unprecidented buying of firearms & ammo. Seems like he's learned to shut up, lest he sell even more guns.

He effectively enacted the Firearms & Ammo Industry Full Employment Act, putting all companies that makes guns & ammo to work at full capacity. Finally, an stimulus plan that actually worked and didn't cost taxpayers a cent!

Davek1977
July 15, 2011, 06:40 AM
I hadn't seen that quote before, though I have no doubt about his hatred of gun rights.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/25/obama-were-working-on-gun-control-under-the-radar/
. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.” Granted, it isn't a DIRECT quote, but I've yet to see any denial it was ever actually said from any source

Double Naught Spy
July 15, 2011, 08:16 AM
You realize how much of normal government work is "under the radar." Anything not being showcased in some manner is under the radar.

wild cat mccane
July 15, 2011, 03:13 PM
You do know that in 2010 the White House was presented with gun control and stalled it, effectively killing it in 2010.

The gun legislation that may pop up this year seems actually pretty reasonable. Close loop holes. Big deal. Make multi sales of semi rifles RIGHT NEXT TO MEXICO BORDER ONLY reportable. So what?

NRA said this admin was going to take your guns. What a load of crap.

Use other sources than just what validates your opinion. Called being well rounded.

Searcher4851
July 15, 2011, 03:38 PM
I love it, we are supposed to believe Obama when he says something threatening, not believe him if he says something concillatory. The democrats are incompetent and lazy when it comes to doing anything good, but skilled planners and diligent workers when it comes to taking our guns.

So are you saying they are kust lying whenever they speak, no matter what they say?

Searcher4851
July 15, 2011, 03:43 PM
Basically, Holder lied to Congress. His restimony in May of this year that he just found out about it is BS by his own words in a speech he gave in 2009, lauding the program.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/07/holder-bragged-about-operation-gunrunner-2009

If that's a criminal offense, he should be tried and jailed. I think that would be more effective than a petition.

wild cat mccane
July 15, 2011, 04:50 PM
That blog talks about Gunrunner.

The NRA petition is about Fast and Furious.

So by talking about Gunrunner, you claim he was talking about Fast and Furious....

cbrgator
July 15, 2011, 05:56 PM
The gun legislation that may pop up this year seems actually pretty reasonable. Close loop holes. Big deal. Make multi sales of semi rifles RIGHT NEXT TO MEXICO BORDER ONLY reportable. So what?

Close loopholes actually means banning all private sales. That means every single gun transfer must be through an FFL, including buying a gift for a family member or selling a gun to your friend in your living room. Maybe you're ok with that. Most of us are not.

wild cat mccane
July 15, 2011, 06:45 PM
Gun show loophole from what I have heard.

But either way, yeah 15 bucks more to protect the seller and buyer, that isn't totally unreasonable. So we agree to disagree on reason.

BUT REGARDLESS, that all misses the point that the WH did not act on that legislation in 2010. This flies in the face of the NRA's claims about Obama. Completely.

hso
July 15, 2011, 07:37 PM
Folks, keep the discussion on the original topic of the petition and don't wander into the weeds.

bumm
July 15, 2011, 07:44 PM
Two minor points:

1. "Closing the loophole" by requiring all sales to go through an FFL pretty much establishes a form of registration by requiring a paper trail on all gun sales. Once this is done, confiscation is MUCH easier, since the government knows where all the guns are, or at least who the last legal owner is.
Of course, the idea of criminals and gangbangers selling guns though an FFL is outright comical.

2. I don't want to see Holder fired at this time. I'd much rather see him have to answer questions about "Fast and Furious" and hopefully decide he doesn't want to take the fall for those higher up. Melson refused to step down as head of the BATF, and instead showed up to to answer questions with his own lawyer. I'd like to see how high this thing goes...

Remo223
July 15, 2011, 07:53 PM
BUT REGARDLESS, that all misses the point that the WH did not act on that legislation in 2010. This flies in the face of the NRA's claims about Obama. Completely.[/QUOTE]



I don't know why you think that. obviously that legislation is a president killer. It's called self preservation. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Chief_Cabioch
July 15, 2011, 08:30 PM
the left went these routes before, and it got many of them in the unemployment lines, why do they think the results this time will be different ?

wild cat mccane
July 18, 2011, 06:15 PM
Guns, in America, have never been taken away. Why do people draw this extreme? Even on the clip ban over 10 rounds, they were still legal to own, sell, and use....

Knowing that it hurt Clinton, what is amazing is that SOME of those that are politically right STILL believe the NRA when it says the left is trying to take guns away with some crazy legislation.
Thought process:
1. admit AWB hurt democrats.
2. admit democrats know AWB hurt democrats.
3. NRA says democrats are going to take guns away.
4. democrats are going to take guns away.
5. wait, what?

It is not even funny how circular that logic is.

whalerman
July 18, 2011, 06:30 PM
Wildcat, it doesn't take a genius to understand what leading Donkeys have been telling us for years, from Feinstein to Lautenberg. "Mr and Mrs America, turn them all in". That was one of yours talking. Pretending it won't happen is not a reasonable reaction to this kind of irrational behavior. The values aren't absolute, but there is an undeniable trend here. I'd welcome you to come visit us here in the Empire State (NY) if you see no connection between party affiliation and proliferation of gun laws. We ranked at the bottom in a recent review of personal freedoms. 50th, out of 57 states, or so I heard during the campaign.

sig220mw
July 18, 2011, 07:04 PM
Wild cat are you really that naive. When Obama first came in he had bigger fish to fry and he hadn't started stacking the supreme court yet. He is a leftist democrat and they all believe alike when it comes to the 2A. Sure there may be a small minority of them that side with us but when push comes to shove and they want to be helped at campaign time or get good assignments they will vote to cut our throats. That is what is wrong with the GOP, they have too many independent minded people that will side with the left and not show party loyalty.

alsaqr
July 18, 2011, 09:15 PM
His restimony in May of this year that he just found out about it is BS by his own words in a speech he gave in 2009, lauding the program.

Holder was most likely briefed on Project GunRunner by the outgoing Bush administration: The program started in Laredo, TX in 2005 and became a full blown gun interdiction program in 2006.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/programs/project-gunrunner/


From an ATF annnouncement in 2008:

ATF Expands Efforts To Combat Illegal Flow Of Firearms Into Mexico

It is Operation Fast and Furious that went drastically wrong. Operation Fast and Furious started in the fall of 2009 and ended in late 2010.

Too many gunowners fail to make a distinction between Project GunRunner and Operation Fast and Furious.

hso
July 19, 2011, 07:02 AM
This entire argument about the President and the Administration's intent to enact regulations and laws to restrict/prohibit firearms ownership is a foolish distraction from the original focus of the thread. You'd almost expect this red herring to have been thrown down to derail the topic.

Holder's role in "Fast and Furious" and his obstruction of Congress to prevent information on the details of the catastrophically failed program that is a key element in a propaganda program implicating American gun owners is the topic. It is clear that F&F has funneled firearms into Mexico. It is clear that those firearms fed the violent crime wave in Mexico. It is also clear that those firearms have been used in violent crimes on U.S. soil and have resulted in the deaths of U.S. law enforcement officers on U.S. soil.

What greater outrage is needed before Congress acts to remove Holder and strip-mine the agencies involved to find out who the architects were of such a wrong-headed scheme and who had knowledge of it and didn't act to stop it?

wild cat mccane
July 19, 2011, 01:40 PM
The problem was exactly what I said earlier, and was just repeated. Those few on the right who think the NRA is leading a good fight are using two different situations. Fast and Furious is not Gunnrunner.

We all have opinions. But just reading from your opinion base is so SO silly. The NRA is betting on people mixing up Gunrunner and Fast and Furious.

This thread proves the NRA is correct in assuming people can do such an obviously biased/incorrect/silly thing.

whalerman
July 19, 2011, 03:34 PM
The NRA warns of impending action by Democrat leadership. Simple. There's plenty of evidence Holder and Co is not interested in laws or common sense or constitutional issues. The Mexican gun smuggling operation had a clear intent to set up a move toward more and more gun restrictions. Collect some bad press from a complicit media, wave it in front of idiots, then proceed to expand some laws. It is a common pattern. To pretend otherwise is foolish, silly, and biased.

hso
July 19, 2011, 04:24 PM
wild cat mccaine,

The NRA background letter points to Fast and Furious as the reason for the call for Holder's resignation. Since Fast and Furious was an effort within the Gunrunner program the supposed "confusion" might not be any confusion at all, but a matter of semantics. The CBS news stories on Fast and Furious also cite Gunrunner as do others. Fast and Furious was an outgrowth of the more benign Gunrunner program.

Regardless of what you call it, the intentional support of straw purchases of thousands of firearms intended for illegal export to Mexican drug cartels and some of which subsequently were used in violent crimes on this side of the border is a controversy worthy of national attention and national outrage, regardless of who is in office.

Chief_Cabioch
July 19, 2011, 07:10 PM
wild cat, I note a bit of sarchasm regarding Gun Confiscation , if the Liberal Progressive Democrats weren't always looking at more and more needless gun legislation, with more and more stricter controls that only aids those NOT following the law, you would be correct in your assesment of many being Overly Concerned, problem is, when I see what obama has accomplished going over the heads of Congress, and Senators willing to give up thier Own power to allow obama to spend more of Our money, and his willingness to Subvert the US Constitution by using and Executive order to accomplish his goals, it makes me worried what else he'll try next, since Brady was shot the Left has been NON Stop at ignoring the statistics, and lying to accomplish the goals they had of "Assault Weapons Bans, etc. only a few Elected officials stand in the way of More restrictive gun laws, and outright bans on others, recently the ATF was considering just such a move, and regardless of Statistics to the Contrary liberal progressives will use any method available to make guns a thing of the past......abd because you dont see it, doesnt mean it isnt happening.

Chief_Cabioch
July 19, 2011, 07:21 PM
A Note to Moderators, if an accusation requires a reply, thats what I intend to do, if thats a Violation of the rules so be it, to stand here and say to me and others we are wrong to assume there is anything sinister being done, like Gun Confiscation, and Gun registering, the FACTS are, the ATF and Melson have admited breaking their own laws, and for some purpose other than a Legitimate "Sting" Operation", and putting GPS Device in (2) of 2500 weapons for the purpose of "Tracking" them is foolish, this is a Forum, on I'll express my Views or I'll happily move down the road,

If replies to comments like Wild Cats arent within rules then Wildcat shouldnt be making them his statements to "Bait" others into any rebuttle, it's incorrect to assume some are
paranoid because of the fears they have of those in this particular administration to do as they please, ..America is FREE because of ONE Supreme Court Justice, and a Handfull of Congress and Senators......I dont know about wild cat.....but to me thats a pretty THIN Margin.......


and Wild Cat....for the record.....You dont know what this administration has up it's sleeve.......

Chief_Cabioch
July 19, 2011, 07:40 PM
wild cat, what government Mandate does the ATF have to Violate US and Mexican Laws ?, and to achieve what goal?....ATF wasnt created to put guns in the hands of criminals....for ANY reasons.....and there is Nothing about the death of a Border Patrol Agent that qualifies as a "Mistake".......no matter WHAT side you're on.

Chief_Cabioch
July 19, 2011, 07:47 PM
"The gun legislation that may pop up this year seems actually pretty reasonable. Close loop holes. Big deal. Make multi sales of semi rifles RIGHT NEXT TO MEXICO BORDER ONLY reportable. So what?"

wild cat, ....theres Nothing "Reasonable" about any gun control.......that is what promts backlash and negativity to your statements.....NO Gun Laws haver ever been successful at stopping Gun Violence.....if you have evidence to the contrary....lets see it.

Chief_Cabioch
July 19, 2011, 09:26 PM
watch this video, tell ME obama didnt know, or give the orders to begin this whole deal....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc&feature=related

wild cat mccane
July 20, 2011, 11:52 AM
"and Wild Cat....for the record.....You dont know what this administration has up it's sleeve....... "


Really? Really? I mean really?

By your logic your opinion is equally incorrect, no?


Under Obama/Holder I can now carry into National Parks.

Chief_Cabioch
July 20, 2011, 03:39 PM
wild cat, you're telling me obama and holder see the light ?....you have to be kidding me.......and heres a clue......NOT voting against something isnt the same as voting FOR it.....save your blue smoke for someone else, obama as a Senator voted 127 time as "present"......so tell me, what legislation did he support....or not ?.........like I said....you still dont know what holder or obama are up to.....or what lengths they are willing to go....to accomplish their goals.......


and NOTE, wild cat avoided the question about the ATF

what government Mandate does the ATF have to Violate US and Mexican Laws ?, and to achieve what goal?....ATF wasnt created to put guns in the hands of criminals

hso
July 20, 2011, 04:57 PM
Gentlemen (used loosely),

The topic is the Holder "recall" for his involvement in withholding information related to the BATFE Fast and Furious debacle.

The inevitable sideline arguments about broader issues deserves it's own discussion thread.

wild cat mccane
July 20, 2011, 05:01 PM
Well is he hell bent to kill all guns or not? Because if he didn't shoot down the National Park carry that doesn't sound hell bent to me (or anyone with a middle ground approach to life) when he has the power to do it.

I answered you point by the difference between Fast and Furious vs Gunrunner. They are not the same.

Chief_Cabioch
July 20, 2011, 05:59 PM
wild cat, you seem to think you have a hand on the pulse of this administration....so tell ME whats in the language of the UN Small arms treaty Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State agreed to?......,I'll be more than Happy to initiate a thread for this discussion,

Jim K
July 20, 2011, 11:44 PM
I guess I have lost some respect for the NRA that they would even waste money bothering with such a petition. Obama and Holder are joined at the hip and so identical in thought and action that they are virtual carbon copies of one another. Asking Obama to fire Holder would be like asking him to chop off his own arms.

Petition? Silly nonsense.

Jim

pjlaw1
July 21, 2011, 12:31 AM
Whether it is any good or not it is just extra fodder for the discussion. I added mine.

Chief_Cabioch
July 21, 2011, 12:36 AM
Quote:
One more Supreme Court justice appointee, and Obama WILL take your guns away. We are very close to losing all of it.


This is one aspect of this government that truly frightens me, the mere concept the US Constitution "needs" interpreted by every administraion is and Outrage, the thought that "ONE" person (Supreme Court Justice) has THAT much power is to say the least unnerving, and I find it difficult to belive our Founding Fathers ever trusted such a minority with so much power, indeed I feel the US Constitution hasnt just been ignored it's been undermined with Lies like "Supreme court Justices are appointed for Life" which is a Patently FALSE Statement, they are as the Constitution points out clearly "Apointed for Periods of good behavior"....NOT Life, the constant twisting and spining must be STOPPED and it must be pointed out, and our Children MUST learn it's Value, and no matter WHAT it takes, we have to fight this, as if it was WWIII, it is our last chance to save America from the throws of GOD Knows what.......

Chief_Cabioch
July 21, 2011, 01:13 AM
Well is he hell bent to kill all guns or not? Because if he didn't shoot down the National Park carry that doesn't sound hell bent to me (or anyone with a middle ground approach to life) when he has the power to do it.

I answered you point by the difference between Fast and Furious vs Gunrunner. They are not the same.


1st, what difference does it make for him to allow guns on OUR property, only to ban them 6 months from now by the UN Small Arms treaty?, you act as if neither an Outright ban, or any form of Tyrrany is possible with this Administration......you underestimate obamas hatered for America, and you underestimate Americans resolve to stop him....

2nd, you didnt answer my question about mandate,. because the ATF has NO Mandate to put guns in the hands of criminals, that was never the intent of the Agency, it is a Tax collection Arm of the IRS and US Treasury, not a facillitator of Illegal Gun sales.

and the "Government cannot Give something they never HAD in the first place, the Right to limit my self preservation.....what part of "Shall Not Be Infringed cant you come to Grips with" ?

ol' scratch
July 21, 2011, 06:46 AM
This admin has prevented shooters from getting some millions of M1s back from Korea , as I remember.

Doesnt appear your are an NRA member so why does the NRAs activities bother you??
Again with the M1's? People...GO TO THE CMP! The rifles over the last year have been amazing. Besides, the US shouldn't buy back guns they already own.

whalerman
July 21, 2011, 09:35 AM
To the everlasting joy of mainstream media and the Obama administration, many are looking for a reason to lessen their respect of the NRA. To float a petition to remove Holder, arguably the most corrupt AG we've had in my lifetime from office, is a meaningful action. Whether or not it results in his resignation or not. To stand by and do nothing is unacceptable. If nothing else it draws attention to the actions of this "justice" department and administration.

wild cat mccane
July 22, 2011, 06:02 PM
Oh for God's sake do you know anything but FACTUALLY WRONG talking points?
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/international-gun-ban-treaty/

That UN 'international gun ban'...doesn't even exist.

NRA lie number a million. Literally made up by the NRA-if you care to read.

Most corrupt AG? Are you serious?

whalerman
July 22, 2011, 08:17 PM
Holder put together an unlawful gun running scheme designed to put weapons in the hands of drug runners, thus cause a reaction in public opinion to support new gun laws. His illegal activities, which he is currently attempting to cover up, caused the death of police officers. That won't be difficult to prove. So yes, Mr Mc, I am very serious. Even if you don't subscribe to motive, which I can tell you won't, the facts remain. It was an illegal program that was his responsibility. That is the definition of corruption. He is criminally responsible for the deaths that took place.

Chief_Cabioch
July 22, 2011, 10:21 PM
Oh for God's sake do you know anything but FACTUALLY WRONG talking points?
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/int...un-ban-treaty/

That UN 'international gun ban'...doesn't even exist.

NRA lie number a million. Literally made up by the NRA-if you care to read.

Most corrupt AG? Are you serious?
__________________
If I call democrats evil/satan ruled my sig is fine. If I question the stupidity of conservatism, then I get a warning.

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Last edited by wild cat mccane; Today at 06:16 PM.




wild cat, this will be my last post to you on this subject, here is a LINK to the UN's Own site, you'll have to navigate a bit to find and actually READ the pages on "Small Arms", and others.....it's there, and running off to "FactCheck.Org" only proves you are so far to the left, talking with you is simply an exersize in futility, to someone who is so well indoctrinated by liberal progressives the right hand cant seem to see what the left hand is doing......that while they tell US they dont want Our guns....they are slowly but surely finding more creative ways to Bypass our system of Government, towards Confiscation............................for The "New World Order".....
......something your president Fully Supports


http://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/Register/

small arms info is below

http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N11/289/72/PDF/N1128972.pdf?OpenElement

CarlosDJackal
July 23, 2011, 12:12 AM
Guns, in America, have never been taken away. Why do people draw this extreme?

Are youy serious? Are you telling everyone here that the poor folks who live in DC did not have to turn in their guns because of the laws that were enacted in 1976? Was that all a myth or one of those "lies" that the NRA has been spreading?

You would have fit right in with pre-WWII Germany or pre-Martial Law Philippines (through which I personally lived through). If you were to seperate you lips from obama's ass, maybe you will see what this current administration is really about.

whalerman
July 23, 2011, 12:25 AM
The same happened in NYC. Registration led to guns being taken away or removed from the city. Again, we're looking at one more Supreme Court justice. Our 5-4 victory amazed me in that it was so close. That case was made to order for gun rights, and we almost lost it anyway. Image what another Kagan or Sotomayor will do to us. Forget the Second Ammendment. It will be gone.

Nico Testosteros
July 23, 2011, 12:47 AM
It seems the right wing conservatives are so indoctrinated against the current administration that they'll believe anything and impute motives that they have no proof exist. The lies about the proposed U N treaty about the illegal international trade in small arms (read Chivers' book about the AK for an example) the peddling of paranoia, it's amazing.

whalerman
July 23, 2011, 09:21 AM
As I said, Nico, it matters not whether motives are proven. Holder's actions are illegal and corrupt. His program, designed to influence public opinion, is responsible for the deaths of police officers. This is not speculation. Guns linked to his program were found at the scene of a murder. This has nothing to do with views of this administration or gender or party or sexual preferences or the perception of global warming. It has to do with crime and responsibility. Demanding Holder's removal is appropriate. If we had an independent media he would already be out, and likely under arrest.

wild cat mccane
July 23, 2011, 11:09 AM
At this point I have to assume somethings about how you are influenced in your opinion. You are misspelling very common words. You aren't forming complete sentences. You are using pretty extreme ideas that are factually wrong. You are calling factchecker.org leftist.

You are a fringe member. That is completely fine and no slight.

However, this means there is no reasoning with you even in the face of proven facts (factchecker.org was used, a common and reliable used source in the politico world). Despite critical thinking on issue you will always go to your biased side. Thank you for back and forth with me. Now I know it was a waste of time though.

wild cat mccane
July 23, 2011, 11:22 AM
In this post we rack up the lie count. Excuse me, the misunderstanding count:

-the government doesn't let you buy surplus military rifles. Link was provided for M1 purchases.

-Hillary Clinton would sign the UN Small Arms blah blah. Factchecker.org proves it doesn't exist, was created by the NRA, has been a lie since the mid 1990's. Yet google still pulls up a wealth of people fear mongering the crap out of the issue. THERE IS NO ISSUE ON THIS. IT IS A LIE. IT DOES NOT EXIST.

-In history there has been a sweeping effort in the US to take guns way BY THE US GOVT. Eh. Wrong. Localities such as states may have voted it, but the Govt? never. Ah, and D.C., not the same place as a state now is it? Clinton's bumper sticker: "no taxation without representation"

-Obama is going to take guns away. Yet he allowed guns to for the first time in a long time be carried into Parks. Easily could have vetoed it.

-Obama hates guns part II. Little known on here apparently, Obama's White House killed gun legislation in 2010 that went to his desk. If the legislation was political suicide and therefore he didn't sign it--that proves the left may have given in on the issue.

-Gun show registrations will kill private sales. I don't even know where to being with this..? Are you saying 15 dollar FFL fees are going to kill it? or is it that it will take to much work? what? I do not understand. And a gun show is not a private sale at--wait for it--NOT A GUN SHOW.

-Obama is a smarmy gun hater 3. A democrat had an attempted assassination on her life. Others were killed. A Glock with a large capacity magazine was used. I say large because as a hand gun it basically makes it not a hand gun in terms of size. The size is larger than some carbines in width. So me saying large capacity isn't some stupid left opinion. That isn't small material for a gun hating left to use. What happened? nothing.

-Finally, Eric Holder the worst AG (really? After Bush, Fast and Furious makes him Eric Holder the worst? Focus on broad issues) admitted openly about Fast and Furious. In fact he openly admitted about Gunrunner.

cbrgator
July 23, 2011, 04:34 PM
This is from ontheissues.org - a completely nonpartisan website which reports on the records of our politicians.


Barack Obama on Gun Control

-- Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008) (meaning if you possessed an unregistered firearm in your home and used it to defend yourself against a home invader, your right to self defense would trump the fact that the gun was technically illegal and you could not be prosecuted for such an offense. The bill passed. Obama voted against it)

-- Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)

-- FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)

-- April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)

-- Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)

-- Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)

-- 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)

-- Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)

-- Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)

-- Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

-- Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)

-- Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

-- Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)


wildcat... you were saying?

alsaqr
July 23, 2011, 06:21 PM
This one has gotten totally off the tracks.

whalerman
July 23, 2011, 07:39 PM
I've enjoyed the shooting sports all my life. With the many McC's around, our kids won't have to worry about such lifestyles. He ain't alone. People can choose to believe whatever they wish. What really bothers me more than denial like this are gun owners who fail to get involved at all. They let people like this write what they want and do not reply. They fail to join the NRA and they decline to vote for their rights. McC is a party line man. The country is full of them. It's the ones who fail to get involved that bother me. This thread was initially about a call to action, specifically to demand the outster of a incompetent, corrupt AG. Mr Holder is all of that.

Chief_Cabioch
July 24, 2011, 12:19 AM
please note, I provided (2) links to the UN's Own site regarding small and conventional arms and the regulations they intend to impose on them.....if you cant get the links to work, I'll help.......but ya have to believe "THEY" Exist"........and anyone deep enough in a fog that cannot see the continuos encroachment of gun rights, with endless debates and regulations and Bullet Taxes ad nauseum......just isnt paying attention, or is in such a stage of denial even therapy wont help....

http://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/Register/

small arms info is below

http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UND...df?OpenElement

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