I think I messed up. Can it be saved?


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chrt396
July 5, 2011, 12:35 AM
I went to the range and tried out my new Springfield Trophy Match this weekend!! Great pistol and extremely accurate. No misfires...no failure to feeds...nuttin'!
However...after blowing up about 300 rounds of .45 ammo...it was time to replace some. I was tired..worn out after 5 hours in the heat and humidity...and eyes were kinda fuzzy.
I started using WSF powder a few weeks ago as a propellant for my 45's and have been having a great deal of success with it.

I label all my ammo boxes with the bullet weight, powder, powder charge, primer and OCL.
What it read:
230g FMJRN MG 6.2g WSF CCILP 1.267 OCL
What I read:
230g FMJRN MG 5.2g WSF CCILP 1.267 OCL

I proceeded to load up 200 rounds of the wrong charge. I was so P.O.'d when I noticed my mistake. The question is...is the ammo shootable without incident?
Here are some of the ratings from Sierra.

5.4 750 FPS
5.9 800 FPS
6.3 850 FPS
6.8 900 FPS

Here are the listings from Hornandy:

5.4 700 FPS
5.8 750 FPS
6.1 800 FPS
6.5 850 FPS

Lyman manual states:

6.0 775 FPS Starting load
6.7 864 FPS Maximum load

I HATE pulling bullets...but if I have to...I guess I will. For some reason, I think I made 100 of these previously, but I cannot be for sure. I guess this is the reason that you write this stuff down!!!! Oh well...I'm learning...every single day and every time I put my hand on that press. It's an RCBS single stage press..so making 200 rounds isn't only a few minutes. It's an event!

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goon
July 5, 2011, 12:50 AM
It's a mistake and it will cost you some time, but it won't cost you anything else. IIRC, loading a jacketed bullet too light runs the risk of getting it stuck in the bore. You'd probably be OK since they're so close to the published data, but there is a chance you might not. If it were me, I'd probably pull them.
FWIW, we all make these mistakes when we start.

And you learned a lesson - never reload when you're not focused or too tired to pay attention to what you're doing.

jfdavis58
July 5, 2011, 12:55 AM
I pull anything that is questionable.

I don't depend on box labeling for records; I have a large three ring notebook and copies of each page scanned into the computer. The box gets a short description and what is essentially a lot number that corresponds to the page in the notebook.

I don't reload when I'm less than 100%.

I don't make decisions for other people.

chrt396
July 5, 2011, 01:16 AM
I pull anything that is questionable.

I don't depend on box labeling for records; I have a large three ring notebook and copies of each page scanned into the computer. The box gets a short description and what is essentially a lot number that corresponds to the page in the notebook.

I don't reload when I'm less than 100%.

I don't make decisions for other people.
I have that same three ring binder..but I chose to label my loads with an adhesive label, and if I like a load..peel it off and stick it on a "I LIKE" board. The only problem was...MY EYES!! That 6 sure looked like a 5! I'm just glad I caught it!
I always bragged about the fact I didn't need glasses at 55 Years old. Well...brag no more...I am officially old!

ErikO
July 5, 2011, 01:21 AM
A 20 year old's eyes get tired too. Don't beat yourself up, just pull them and redo them. No sense in running a risk with any gun, especailly a nice 1911. :)

noylj
July 5, 2011, 05:49 AM
What a bunch of girly men. You know you have light load, so watch it. God, your NOT going to stick a bullet with that load.
You might at 1.5gn, but even there, my 1911s have always gotten the bullet out of the barrel.
Shoot 'em if you got 'em. .45s fire some VERY light loads all the time. Golly, it isn't a long barreled rifle with a squib load. You are two tenths of a grain (weigh that on your scale to see how much that is) of a suggested starting load using a powder that has no problem being used at low pressure. The loading companies do not select the starting load based on it being the lightest safe load but, generally, the lightest load that cycles the gun. I would bet that, unless you have a heavy non-stock recoil spring, that they will cycle just fine.
45 ACP
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
HP-XTP, FMJ-RN, HAP, FMJ-FP 230 WSF 5.4 700 Start 161
FMJ 230 WSF 5.7 755 Start 174 1.275
JHP 230 WSF 5.7 780 Start 179 1.275
JHP 230 WSF 6.1 850 Max 196 1.275
FP 230 WSF 6.1 772 178
FP 230 WSF 6.1 811 187
HP-XTP, FMJ-RN, HAP, FMJ-FP 230 WSF 6.5 850 Max 196
FMJ 230 WSF 6.6 885 Max 204 1.275

Walkalong
July 5, 2011, 08:33 AM
If you are 100% sure of your label, shoot them. They should be light, but easily get out of the barrel. Besides, if it isn't powerful enough to get them out of the barrel, it won't cycle the gun, so you would be warned of a squib.

gamestalker
July 5, 2011, 11:18 AM
I'm a vetran reloader (30 yrs.) and made a simular mistake a few months ago when loading 9mm. I was loading with HS6 behind a 147 gr. XTP and unintentionally charged the cases 1.1 grains higher than maximum. I didn't realize my error until after having shot a box. Nothing bad happened, and there was no indication of high pressures. Velocities didn't really change by any noticable degree either. But that is with a rather slow burning powder.
Your mistake, being that the cases are under charged, is indeed a risk of jamming one in the barrel. But in my personal opinion, I would see how a couple of them do while paying attention to all aspects of performance, especially making absolutely sure each one exits the barrel of course. If they perform OK you could shoot them up, saving yourself some time.

Hondo 60
July 5, 2011, 11:41 AM
Hodgdon's data says the minimum for a 230gr jacketed is 5.7 gr.
At 5.2 I think you're too low.
I'd be safe & pull 'em!

mgmorden
July 5, 2011, 12:00 PM
Always err on the side of caution. I recently had a reloading session where I did 150 rounds of 9mm (don't sound like a lot, but on a single-stage thats a good bit for me :)). I was listening to a podcast while doing it. With about 10 rounds left to seat a bullet I came to a stark realization: I've been loading these rounds on autopilot and not paying as much attention as I should. I think I PROBABLY charged each case before seating a bullet, but at that point going through them rather swiftly and with my attention partially listening to the podcast, I just couldn't guarantee it. I ended up pulling them just to be safe. Turned out that they all were charged just fine, but given the uncertainty, it's still always a good decision to pull and go again if you have any doubts.

I've also barred myself from bringing my iPod into the reloading room anymore :).

Jim Watson
July 5, 2011, 12:10 PM
I agree with noylj.
5.2 grains of WSF is not going to go high order and blow up your gun, it is unlikely to stick a bullet in the barrel, and it might even cycle the action; a full size GM is very flexible. It will likely be erratic in velocity and dirty with a lot of residue at lower pressure than needed for a good burn of Ball powder. Note that Lyman reduces starting loads a lot more with flake and extruded powder than they do for Ball.

I would take the precaution of shooting in slow fire and confirming a hit on target for each one fired at least for a while.

Pulling them down would amount to a hair shirt self punishment for a blunder that could be hazardous with a different set of numbers.

RustyFN
July 5, 2011, 12:24 PM
Being on the light side I would shoot a few and see how they shoot. If they shoot good then shoot them all. If it was on the max side then I would pull them all.

chevy_dmax
July 5, 2011, 01:12 PM
You have 2 choices, shoot them carefully or send them to me.

Bill.

Dapperdan
July 5, 2011, 01:16 PM
I'd try them out. Worst that can happen is that they won't cycle the slide, but they'll surely exit the barrel. You'll know in the first shot or two if everything is kosher. My experience tells me that you will have a very nice, soft recoiling load, heck, you might even stick with that charge.

Seedtick
July 5, 2011, 01:35 PM
I would try them.

If they weren't 'big' enough to cycle the action I would seat them a little bit deeper and try them again.

Like I said though......that is what I would do.

HTH

Seedtick

:)

dc.fireman
July 5, 2011, 03:52 PM
I like seedticks suggestion - if you haven't crimped them - seating them a hair deeper (which is a damn sight easier than pulling them all) ought to compensate for the slightly lower powder charge you're expecting. I'd think at the worst, you'll have a single-fire 1911 for the 200 rounds you've mis-read.

Good Luck.

-tc

Walkalong
July 5, 2011, 04:10 PM
It is going to be dirty, but they will all fire and clear the barrel, as well as cycle the gun, assuming a 5" 1911.

Betcha a cold drink. :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523172

kingmt
July 6, 2011, 12:23 AM
I agree with Seedtick. There is no way that bullet is going to get stuck. It will probably even work the slide & may make your new favorite load.

dc.fireman
July 6, 2011, 12:48 AM
It is going to be dirty, but they will all fire and clear the barrel, as well as cycle the gun, assuming a 5" 1911.

Betcha a cold drink. :)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523172

Ha! No thanks! I remember reading that thread originally!
:neener:

jfdavis58
July 6, 2011, 12:58 AM
I have that same three ring binder..but I chose to label my loads with an adhesive label, and if I like a load..peel it off and stick it on a "I LIKE" board. The only problem was...MY EYES!! That 6 sure looked like a 5! I'm just glad I caught it!
I always bragged about the fact I didn't need glasses at 55 Years old. Well...brag no more...I am officially old!
53 years young here; bifocals for three years. I set aside and extra couple hundred and acquired a special prescription from the eye doc: the near focus lens set at 18 inches and made into a single lens pair of glasses. That tilting the head back to read or check near work gave me a pain. Now I wear the readers for reloading work. FWIW I also had sunglasses made up as bifocals so that I didn't need to take two pairs to the range.

File this under "a word to the wise..."

Claude Clay
July 6, 2011, 12:59 AM
it will fire weakly.....

just do not shoot faster than you can stop--
make sure each round fired is a hole you see in your target....no guessing.

re-load when alert....kinda saying what you have figured out; sorry.
just that there are some things in life we don't do if we are in the least out of sorts.
like music is OK, but not TV or talk radio....i want to have my eyes seeing so my mind can be deciding, not debating someone saying whatever on the radio.

GLOOB
July 6, 2011, 02:34 AM
- if you haven't crimped them - seating them a hair deeper (which is a damn sight easier than pulling them all) ought to compensate for the slightly lower powder charge you're expecting.
I don't think you can taper crimp an auto pistol round so much that you can't reseat. At least, not without grossly overdoing it.

Lost Sheep
July 6, 2011, 03:37 AM
I would take this as a sign that I should get a chronograph.

If I was worried about it, I would load 5 or 10 rounds some at 4.8 grains. (WSF is a fairly fast powder that won't be "spikey" at low pressures, just low pressure) and fire them off one at a time, checking the barrel between each shot (just in case the core left the barrel and the jacket stayed in the gun)), clocking the velocity of each one.

If I got a reliable 650-700 fps out of 4.8 grains (with a low standard deviation), I would consider that proof that IN MY GUN, that load will deliver that bullet at least a foot 12" out of the barrel every time.

Watching for erratic behaviors is all about observing what happens in YOUR GUN. If you observed signs that you have overpressures inside the loading envelope recommended by the manuals, you would discontinue that recipe, right? If you test a load that falls outside the loading manuals' recipes, and find that it is not a dangerous load, what would you do? I would (probably) use it.

Of course, it behooves ANYONE to THOROUGHLY vett any loads that fall outside the tested recipes from the manuals. But where does it say that you can't write your own parameters if you observe good safety practices? I mean, how do the ballistic labs determine what the minimum recommended load IS, anyhow?

This is not a recommendation that you ignore the manuals and set up your own ballistics lab. After all, you probably don't have pressure measuring equipment and if you destroy a gun, you can't write it off as a lab expense (besides not having all the safety gear that labs use). But certain practices are within our abilities to check. Inadequate pressure shows up by primers backing out and soot around the outside of the cartridge. Overpressures by flattened primers/headstamps, split cases and higher than normal velocities.

I would shoot them, I think. But then, I have a chronograph and have done a lot of light loads with fast powders.

Check out this thread; "How slow is too slow?

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=2911043&m=781108128

But I would definitely NOT do any double-taps. If ten rounds were all over 700 fps and were not erratic in velocity (all rounds clocked within 20 fps of one another or so) I would shoot them and count the data as information gathered and the lesson of staying within the recipes as a lesson learned.

If I were REALLY curious, I might load up some rounds with an EXTREMELY fast powder and determine (in my barrel and with these bullets), just how slow I could go WITHOUT sticking a bullet in the barrel or separating a jacket from the core. Then, I would report that back to the forum. Educational, eh?

One caveat. I am taking no risk. It is your eyes, your hand, your gun. I have played fast and loose with the advice, here. The safest bet is to pull the bullets.

Lost Sheep

Red Cent
July 6, 2011, 02:49 PM
Quit reading halfway down.

Guys, the SASS group, including me have been shooting lighter than minimum for 30 years. My lead 105 gr lead, or my 125 gr lead, and my 158 gr lead with 3.2 American Select is wayyy under. Those will fire no problem. Shoot at paper fairly close so you can see the round made a hole or shoot at steel. 5.2won't ever stick.

I read Jim Watson's post. That should be enough.

x_wrench
July 6, 2011, 08:46 PM
i would pull a couple of them down to be sure it really is 5.2 grains. if it is, shoot them up. they are a little light, but should cycle just fine.

trapper500
July 7, 2011, 01:48 AM
IMHO I'd pull them i dont like it either but i do it when i goof myself

chrt396
July 13, 2011, 03:44 PM
You have 2 choices, shoot them carefully or send them to me.

Bill.
That would have been just great...but....after the first few posts stating to pull em'..I reluctantly decided to yank all of them lil' boogars. I just sat on a little roll around stool..and pounded away at my driveway. Wife's inside complaining that I'm making too much noise..ya-de-ya-de-da! They are all pulled...recharged...re-seated..crimped and blown up. Went to drug store and upped my glasses magnification to 2.0!!

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