Is CCW a useless hope in IL?


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mod60rimfire
July 6, 2011, 11:18 AM
It seems IL will never get CCW.
Discuss :(?

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NMBrian
July 6, 2011, 11:27 AM
It might happen someday, but will probably be as hard to get as California or New York, etc.

Moving might be an option depending on how important it is to you. I cant tell you how nice its been going from MI gun laws to NM ones, and New Mexico is considered liberal in terms of the South West lol....

Good Luck.

blackDdefense
July 6, 2011, 11:31 AM
We need to win in the courts in order to beat Chicago. It is sad that one region of the State dictates what the rest of us do.

Kingcreek
July 6, 2011, 12:54 PM
There are some that want us to think its hopeless.
We will get it. Some folks have been working too hard, too long not to.

mg.mikael
July 6, 2011, 01:00 PM
Moving might be an option depending on how important it is to you.

Next time don't write this garbage. Not everyone can move, so think before you type.:banghead:


Anyways, back to the discussion. The vote we recently had on the CCW bill showed we are definitely getting ever closer to the goal. Had the democrats not pulled the political stunt of making the vote required (a super-majority) to get the bill passed, the bill would have defiantly passed since we had the majority needed.

Next step the governor, Quinn is Governor Jello he flip-flops more then an Asian carp out of water. A little pressure on the inept politician would get him to sign it, or if we have the votes we could go right over his head. Or we could just wait till he's arrested and sent to jail like all are other recent governors. ;)

I overall think CCW is in our future, I just hope it's not some of that shall-issue junk they have in other states. But with our luck it will be.

bigfatdave
July 6, 2011, 01:12 PM
just hope it's not some of that shall-issue junk they have in other states. I assume you mean may-issue

"Shall Issue" = if you meet the defined requirements, you get the permit, the local po-po doesn't get to use their opinion to block you
"May Issue" = every paper-pusher along the line can deny you for any reason they see fit

"Shall Issue" is far superior ... "constitutional carry" is superior to both, of course, but "shall issue" at least makes the default into "issue permit"

mod60rimfire
July 6, 2011, 01:32 PM
I dont care if I have to present a prize virgin to a local police officer if it gets me CCW.

bad joke aside I hope we get it all but crook county want it.

splithoof
July 6, 2011, 01:56 PM
Yes, MOVING MIGHT BE AN OPTION. Depending on how badly you really need the ability to CCW, and how rooted you are to your location for whatever reason, some folks have an easier ability to change locations than others. I certainly sympathize with those who can't, but it is not garbage to suggest it. You might also find that by leaving a hostile area, other benefits will likely be realized, especially when it comes to gun ownership and the culture that goes with it. Everything has a co$t, you must figure out what you are willing to pay. If you really don't like IL, vote with your feet.

Michael R.
July 6, 2011, 02:01 PM
as long as we vote republican we will get it. the dems want control of everything. lets make sure they never do

mg.mikael
July 6, 2011, 02:52 PM
Thanks for the correction, bigfatdave, I did mean may-issue.

Yes, MOVING MIGHT BE AN OPTION.

Stop telling people to move. Are you gonna pay me to move? No, didn't think so. So untill your gonna pay me to move don't suggest it.

Scimmia
July 6, 2011, 03:01 PM
Next time don't write this garbage. Not everyone can move, so think before you type.:banghead:

Bull. Everyone CAN move, many/most just aren't willing to. He never told you to move, either, just said that it might be an option. Instead of telling him to think before typing, how about you follow your own advice.

I do think CCW in IL will happen, with or without Quinn. The last attempt came close, and only failed because some politicians went back on promises they made. The people working on getting it passed know who to lean on now to make it happen.

Deltaboy
July 6, 2011, 03:01 PM
It seems IL will never get CCW.
Discuss :(?
Yes it is until the rest of IL votes to give Chicago to Canada.

Smaug
July 6, 2011, 03:02 PM
The thing some folks don't realize is that just because the state law (may be) that CCW permits may be issued, there is always a way around it.

Chicago's handgun law is a prime example: It is legal to own a handgun in Chicago as long as you have a handgun permit. > OK, I'll apply for my permit. > Permit is denied 100% of the time; none have been issued since 1976. Chicago has blocked the law by adding their own local law on top of it.

There are other municipalities that ban handgun ownership outright, such as Winthrop Harbor.

Outside of towns, there are also county laws, so maybe they will make county laws that block federal or state laws everywhere within 100 miles of Chicago.

So the best we can hope for is that small towns that are nowhere near Chicago will be allowed to carry.

Not that I'm giving up. I'll keep doing what I can to get it through. But let's just say I don't entertain any high hopes of every being able to carry in IL.

Moving is not an option, once one has put down roots. It isn't that I don't value my right to carry, it's just that there are other things that are more important, such as family.

Last thought: Illinois is desparate for money. Maybe it will occur to these dim-bulbs in our state government that there are thousands (millions?) of people who would pay a $10 fee every year to exercise their right to carry. That adds up to millions of dollars that could then be spent to hire enough teachers (and keep them on) to educate our children.

Smaug
July 6, 2011, 03:04 PM
Deltaboy: I don't think Canada wants us. I sure wouldn't, if I were them. It will cost millions to fix all the corruption here. Ryan's in jail. G-Rod's on the way. Hopefully, Quinn is next. How long before the federal government figures out that it is not just the leaders who are corrupt, but also lots of folks under them? Just like bad company management, but the stakes are higher.

Scimmia
July 6, 2011, 03:08 PM
Chicago's handgun law is a prime example: It is legal to own a handgun in Chicago as long as you have a handgun permit. > OK, I'll apply for my permit. > Permit is denied 100% of the time; none have been issued since 1976. Chicago has blocked the law by adding their own local law on top of it.

There are other municipalities that ban handgun ownership outright, such as Winthrop Harbor.
These have already been ruled unconstitutional in the courts, so they're invalid.
Outside of towns, there are also county laws, so maybe they will make county laws that block federal or state laws everywhere within 100 miles of Chicago.
County law cannot supersede state or federal law. It would be overturned immediately.

Deltaboy
July 6, 2011, 03:10 PM
The thing some folks don't realize is that just because the state law (may be) that CCW permits may be issued, there is always a way around it.

Chicago's handgun law is a prime example: It is legal to own a handgun in Chicago as long as you have a handgun permit. > OK, I'll apply for my permit. > Permit is denied 100% of the time; none have been issued since 1976. Chicago has blocked the law by adding their own local law on top of it.

There are other municipalities that ban handgun ownership outright, such as Winthrop Harbor.

Outside of towns, there are also county laws, so maybe they will make county laws that block federal or state laws everywhere within 100 miles of Chicago.

So the best we can hope for is that small towns that are nowhere near Chicago will be allowed to carry.

Not that I'm giving up. I'll keep doing what I can to get it through. But let's just say I don't entertain any high hopes of every being able to carry in IL.

Moving is not an option, once one has put down roots. It isn't that I don't value my right to carry, it's just that there are other things that are more important, such as family.

Last thought: Illinois is desparate for money. Maybe it will occur to these dim-bulbs in our state government that there are thousands (millions?) of people who would pay a $10 fee every year to exercise their right to carry. That adds up to millions of dollars that could then be spent to hire enough teachers (and keep them on) to educate our children.
Then your best hope is getting state court to rule state laws on the 2nd Amendment are Supreme and all laws stricter are Null and void.

Smaug
July 6, 2011, 03:15 PM
Scimmia, Deltaboy: If it were that easy, I would think it would have been done some time in the last 35 years.

I think someone would have to be a martyr first. Someone would have to get caught breaking that law, and go to jail for it. (because it IS a law) Then, they would have to pay a lawyer to appeal it to a higher court. In the meantime, that person's whole life savings is gone, he's lost his job, and his life is ruined. It would have to be a rich guy with a lawyer on staff. Those kinds of guys don't willingly go to jail.

Scimmia
July 6, 2011, 03:19 PM
Smaug, you must have missed the news over the past few years. The martyr's name is Otis McDonald, and the Supreme Court of the US has ruled that Chicago's position is unconstitutional. The courts even ruled that one of the cities in question had to pay McDonald's legal fees.

Smaug
July 6, 2011, 03:23 PM
Smaug, you must have missed the news over the past few years. The martyr's name is Otis McDonald, and the Supreme Court of the US has ruled that Chicago's position is unconstitutional.

And?

What is the result to me? I can legally carry a concealed handgun now? No.

I can legally buy a handgun in Chicago? No again.

Maybe a precedent was set that might be useful. But the locals have been successful at blocking right to carry.

Scimmia
July 6, 2011, 03:26 PM
Have you tried applying for a permit to have a handgun in the last year? They have started issuing them, contrary to your previous post. Emmanual recently lifted the ban on ranges, too, in response to an ongoing lawsuit.

I never said anything about CCW in Chicago, that's well beyond their radar right now.

Edit, Emanual didn't lift the ban, he's proposing a lift. Still far more than I would have expected from him.

mg.mikael
July 6, 2011, 03:43 PM
They have started issuing them, contrary to your previous post.

You mis-read Smaug's post. He said, "I can legally buy a handgun in Chicago? No again."

He didn't say anything about permits to own one. He was saying that you still can't even purchase a handgun or any other gun for that matter in Chicago since their's no gunshops allowed in the city.

Scimmia
July 6, 2011, 03:45 PM
You mis-read Smaug's post. He said, "I can legally buy a handgun in Chicago? No again."

He didn't say anything about permits to own one. He was saying that you still can't even purchase a handgun or any other gun for that matter in Chicago since their's no gunshops allowed in the city.

I'm sorry, I should have specified. I was refering to an earlier post, #13 in this thread.

Chicago's handgun law is a prime example: It is legal to own a handgun in Chicago as long as you have a handgun permit. > OK, I'll apply for my permit. > Permit is denied 100% of the time; none have been issued since 1976. Chicago has blocked the law by adding their own local law on top of it.

Searcher4851
July 6, 2011, 03:52 PM
If enough residents contact enough legislators enough times, it will come to be. Granted it would be easier to just elect a lot fewer democrats, but with all the city dwellers that live on the public dole, it's tough. They haven't even figured out that more guns= less crime here in Illinois yet.

mgregg85
September 27, 2011, 06:06 PM
If you are giving up then yeah, it is a forlorn hope.

ilbob
September 30, 2011, 08:26 AM
Right this second, LTC legislation is a dead issue. Just don't have the votes. There are a couple of court cases that could provide the leverage needed to pass it. Who knows when they will be decided or what that decision might be.

It could be fairly quick, it might be several (2-5) years before we find out for sure what the deal is going to be with these cases. Just no way to know. I am personally betting on a longer time frame than a shorter one.

One of the problems in IL is home rule. Home rule allows any home rule entity to make just about any law they want. It takes a 2/3 vote of both houses of the general assembly to pass a law that pre-empts home rule powers. That is a tough hurdle to get past.

Heller and McDonald have established that the RTKBA applies to individuals and are incorporated against the states. Presumably, the courts will eventually get around to fleshing out just what the limits of that right are going to be. It may well take several decades.

We got a huge break in Ezell that was total unexpected. An appeals court judge said quite clearly that the rights protected by the 2A should be considered in the same vein as the 1A. That is a big deal. A lot bigger than most people realize.

That does not mean these decisions will come quickly.

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