Bad parenting advice


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DWS1117
January 26, 2003, 11:11 PM
My wife and I are first time parents. Our son is 14 months old. We were doing a little surfing looking at differnent parenting web sites comparing some of the tips to what we were already doing when we came across these "tips" on this site. now, my wife isn't really anti but she is not complete pro gun, but when she read this hogwash she was goin on about how stupid this woman sounds. I like when these anti's put thier feet in thier mouths. I can't believe people would actually teach this crap to kids.:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

http://www.parentkidsright.com/pt-guns.html

http://www.parentkidsright.com/pt-toyguns.html


What are your thoughts?

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geekWithA.45
January 26, 2003, 11:15 PM
That the feebleminded are entitled to their opinions, their neurosis, their fears, and to tell us _all_ about them.

Whether we listen or not is up to us.

Standing Wolf
January 26, 2003, 11:37 PM
Quote: HANDGUNS DO NOT BELONG IN HOMES! Homes are where children live and grow up. Guns are not healthy for children or other living things.
Why do I advocate handgun-free homes? Scientific data about parents and children have absolutely convinced me. The majority of gun-owning parents store their firearms loaded and/or unlocked, many trust children not to touch a loaded gun and believe their children can tell the difference between a toy and real gun. Only 30% of gun-owning families surveyed reported all guns were stored unloaded and locked up.

If that extreme case of hoplophobia is based on "scientific data," I'm Siamese twins, and it's going to rain nickels bright and early in the morning!

larryw
January 26, 2003, 11:47 PM
Hmmm, it will be interesting to see what she says about cars (14X as many deaths) or swimming pools and bathtubs (6X)...

Yohan
January 26, 2003, 11:52 PM
http://www.parentkidsright.com/Images/Heins.jpg
Uh- isn't she a little too old to give parenting advice?

http://www.hrm.org/collections/witch.jpeg
"YES! PUT THE GUNS AWAY!!!! "

:uhoh:

Marshall
January 27, 2003, 12:24 AM
Yohan, OMG hahahaha Oh hahahahaha!
That was funny!

The problem with the ladies logic is that more kids are harmed and killed by poisons, toxics, razor blades, kitchen knives, etc. than handguns! She is just finding an exuse to make her anti point.
I do believe however, that if young children are in the house all guns should be under lock and key or, stored somewhere there is no way a kid can access. That is just common sense.

10-Ring
January 27, 2003, 12:29 AM
:banghead: :cuss: :fire: ....Geez :scrutiny:

Blackhawk
January 27, 2003, 12:54 AM
I can't believe people would actually teach this crap to kids.Believe it.

But they're dishonest intellectual bullies. They pick on guns because THEY don't perceive a need for them.

They don't pick on more dangerous devices like cars because they NEED their cars, SUVs, etc.

Kids, scissors or knives, plus toasters or electrical cords. How about those? And what about kitchen ranges? Hot water available in bathtubs and showers? Bleach, drain cleaners, amonia, etc.?

The average home is FULL of dangerous devices, chemicals, and situations that can easily maim or kill children. But they're handy and useful to non-kids.

Guns, however, are defenseless against them.

Ironic isn't it? :rolleyes:

Pendragon
January 27, 2003, 04:16 AM
Hi DWS!

I too have a son who will be 14 months in about a week.

He is walking and climbing like crazy and he is learning new words all the time.

It is definately time to be concerned. My wife is a full time mom and we are watching our boy 100% of the time. We stay down stairs except when sleeping and there is only one handgun that is well out of his reach (for now).

I only recently started keeping a gun downstairs - wife said she gets uncomfortable with people knocking on the door during the day and hearing the police choppers once in a while.

She has told me several times that she REALLY feels better having a loaded handgun where she can get to it during the day.

I think you have to find a balance between safety and defense - all you ever hear is "store it locked and unloaded". Yeah, fine - but what if I NEED it?

I would look into quick action safes or similar. I have a revolver that I keep where he never is and cant really get to, but I think I am going to start keeping it empty with a speed loader next to it. Right now I just keep the action open.

Anyway - its good you are thinking - you have to find something that works for you. Personally, the one thing I agree with the antis on is that (at least with little kids) you cannot trust them to not touch a gun they find. Train them, teach them - yes, of course, but having a loaded gun they can get to is crazy in my book.

Kahr carrier
January 27, 2003, 08:24 AM
IGNORANCE is BLISS.:rolleyes: :scrutiny:

Tamara
January 27, 2003, 08:27 AM
Since when is the Kellerman study considered "scientific data"? :confused:

FPrice
January 27, 2003, 08:50 AM
"I think you have to find a balance between safety and defense - all you ever hear is "store it locked and unloaded". Yeah, fine - but what if I NEED it?"

Congratulations on the boy! And I hope that you have plenty of vitamins, you are gonna need them to keep up with him.

Anyways, back to the gun-related topic.

I found something which you may want to consider. It is the "Life Jacket". It's a hard plastic clamshell which closes over the action of a gun (they make handgun, shotgun, and AR-15 models) and locks, providing for security of your firearm. Unlike a trigger lock, it covers all of that portion of the firearm. Unless they are under my immediate control, I use it on my self-defense handguns to provide security and quick access. If you want to know more of how I use it, please PM or email me.

I have kids and grandkids and I think this provides an excellent answer to the problem.

redneck
January 27, 2003, 09:23 AM
Didn't bother to read it, git the gist of it from you guys. Still amazes me how stupid people are. "If I bury my head in the sand all the bad people disappear!" :D :rolleyes:

These people are doing their kids an injustice. Kids that are never taught gun safety, regardless of whether they are going to have guns, are the same kids that go to a friends house and don't see anything wrong when they find a gun an start pointing it at each other an being stupid.
Think how many lives could have been saved if people had known what is and isn't safe gun handling. All they would had to do was get up and leave as soon as a gun came out and people were being irresponsible. Instead they sit around and let some drunk, or just plain moron assure them its not loaded and point it at them. Then they pull the trigger an somebody dies.

Jim V
January 27, 2003, 09:47 AM
What do you mean she's too old to give parenting advise, look at Dr. Ruth. LOL

I'd put her in the grouping of: Blithering idiots.

Carlos Cabeza
January 27, 2003, 09:53 AM
The presence of a gun in the household should be handled with utmost respect. One should always know where it is, which condition and how it is being stored. If one cannot have complete control over a handgun in the home, it should be kept unloaded and locked away from unauthorized usage. Regardless if its a
child or an adult. WOW, some things are common sense.......
It is impossible to believe that some people do not have some.................:rolleyes: Also, children mature at different ages and I know five year olds that are more mature than some adults I know..........A parent should monitor or gauge each child differently if the parent decides to introduce responsible gun safety and handling to a child. The younger they are taught
respect, the easier it will be to teach them respect for guns.

Teach your children well..............................................

larryw
January 27, 2003, 11:40 AM
Pendragon, has your wife considered carrying a holstered or fannypacked gun while in the home? This could accomplish two objectives: keep the gun handy and also keep it away from your son.

We have two children, a three and a six year old and share your concerns. We keep my wife's loaded 45 in a GunVault, which could be another option for your downstairs security.

http://www.gunvault.com/

PATH
January 27, 2003, 12:04 PM
If ever there was a need for the BARF smilie this clinches it. Damnable blissninny telling people how to live with her leftist tripe.:fire: :cuss:

4v50 Gary
January 27, 2003, 12:42 PM
She should have shared that advice with the fellow who protected his home, his wife and child by shooting a burglar.

seeker_two
January 27, 2003, 01:38 PM
That the feebleminded are entitled to their opinions, their neurosis, their fears, and to tell us _all_ about them.

Since when is stupidity a point of view?! :banghead:

I think we should keep HER out of the home...:cuss:

Mike Irwin
January 27, 2003, 01:51 PM
I agree with her on one thing.

Kids and guns SHOULD be kept apart, except in well supervised activities.

No different than with any potentially dangerous object.

Other than that, though....

Kinsman
January 27, 2003, 02:18 PM
"You can't kid-proof your guns,
you must gun-proof your kids."

That being said, you certainly can't leave a loaded gun where a 14 month old will find it. On top of the fridge is not safe. They are too durn inquisitive and that is a recipe for disaster.

My youngest is now three and will leave my guns alone (I leave an unloaded shotgun in the corner as a test of this. I have educated both my boys, though, from a young age. Even toy guns, you don't point 'em at people. When you point a gun at something, it dies. And from there, onward through standard gun safety. I have my 6-year-old shooting his own bb gun (he carries that with supervision) and my .22, obviously supervised too. He is remarkably safe with guns. Way more than most of his friends. I am confident that he will be a responsible guy with guns all his life.

BTW, my wife was raised in Chicago and was not particularly pro-gun....now she outshoots me!

ReadyontheRight
January 27, 2003, 02:21 PM
http://www.gunvault.com/

Ditto on the Gunvault recommendation. Get the larger one for $20 more and keep it up on a high shelf. Well worth the $160 or so it costs retail. It's not your own kids to necessarily worry about, but the other kids and babysitters who will visit your home that may not have had exposure to gun safety.

Easy, fast access and no need to fumble for keys.

As far as parenting advice goes -- I can't say it better than Oleg:

http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/_duty.jpg

www.a-human-right.com

BerettaNut92
January 27, 2003, 03:20 PM
What about chemicals, stairs and pools of water?

Destructo6
January 27, 2003, 03:54 PM
Guns are not healthy for children or other living things.
Bumper sticker logic.

Without quotation of her "scientific research" that convinced her, this should not be taken as anything more authoritative than an opinion piece.

BerettaNut92
January 27, 2003, 03:56 PM
Guns are not healthy for children or other living things.

Neither are bad, bad people. As part of the 'other living thing' category, I'll take my chances with my pistol.

Peetmoss
January 27, 2003, 04:11 PM
For every kids saftey lets put them in padded fire proof rooms. Without any stimulation from things that might be dangerous. Oh yeah and only baby food is allowed untill there 18 they might choke on anything else.:banghead:

thaddeus
January 27, 2003, 08:17 PM
The majority of gun-owning parents store their firearms loaded and/or unlocked, many trust children not to touch a loaded gun and believe their children can tell the difference between a toy and real gun. Only 30% of gun-owning families surveyed reported all guns were stored unloaded and locked up. "


So....if something like %50 of American homes have a gun in them....and the majority of those homes keep their gun loaded and unlocked......let's see, that is tens of millions of homes with guns in them loaded and unlocked, and we have maybe a few dozen gun deaths a year in the whole nation from child accidents?
By her own numbers, statistically speaking, it is very SAFE to keep a loaded gun in your home with a child. There are many many many things that are far deadlier, including the most obscure examples of accidental deaths.

That said, of course safety must be praticed when you have children and guns, as well as training. But apparently Americans are actually very safe with their guns around kids, according to the facts.

fgr39
January 27, 2003, 09:49 PM
the issue of kids and guns is one I have had to deal with, it has been a lot of compromise between my wife and I. she grew up with never seeing a gun and I have had my own since I was 7. the balance we have found is mag loaded empty chamber in a quickly accesable combo lock safe(push button) I have not taken my daughter shooting yet(she is only 5) however everytime I return from the range she helps me to clean my pistols, this teachs her how they work and how to safely handle a weapon, not to mention its good quality time without any other distractions. I think good supervision and a strong empahsis on saftey are important.

illuminatus99
January 28, 2003, 07:06 AM
My wife has told me that once we have kids she's going to upgrade to a .45 and carry 24/7 and there's nothing I can do about it. I grew up with loaded and unlocks guns in the house and so did my wife, both of us learned at a very early age that guns are not a toy, in fact I don't remember a time when I didn't know the basics of gun safety, I think my dad started teaching me when I was about 4 years old and I plan to do the same with my kids.

Pendragon
January 28, 2003, 12:24 PM
I think it would be more troublesome and possibly dangerous for my wife to CCW on her person in the house.

The gun is in a place that even a short adult would have trouble accessing. We are both very tall so this works for us for now.

I am going to look into the life jacket.

We never have baby sitters and one of us is always with our son - and I mean always.

Ebbtide
January 28, 2003, 12:35 PM
And the purchase of a handgun is associated with an increased risk of suicide.

I hope this is not my last post.

geekWithA.45
January 28, 2003, 06:49 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the purchase of a handgun is associated with an increased risk of suicide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

People who want to kill themselves go out and buy guns to do it with?

DUH! How on earth do people make it through school without learning that correlation isn't causation?



Try these on for size, while we're at it:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the purchase of a ROPE is associated with an increased risk of suicide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the purchase of POISON is associated with an increased risk of suicide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the purchase of ETC is associated with an increased risk of suicide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

pax
January 28, 2003, 06:55 PM
Tell children who come to visit that they have to check guns at the door like the cowboys used to do in the Wild West.
Her passion is exceeded only by her ignorance.

pax

Penman
January 28, 2003, 08:35 PM
Mas Ayoob has a pamphlet called "How to Gun Proof Your Children". It's a good place to start.

http://www.ayoob.com/

CAP
January 28, 2003, 08:39 PM
The most important thing is to spend time with your kids and be involved in their lives AND school.

Who do YOU want raising YOUR kids?? Strangers?

BerettaNut92
January 28, 2003, 10:05 PM
The most important thing is to spend time with your kids and be involved in their lives AND school.


Amen. I 'learned' too much from school. :o

I should have had more gun friends as a kid.

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