wolf primers


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gpwelding1
July 9, 2011, 12:20 PM
i just found a pretty good deal on wolf small pistol primers,$28 per 1k. i've shot wolf ammo before, and had no problems with it.but i know nothing about their primers.are they dependable, or should i save my $28?

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amlevin
July 9, 2011, 12:26 PM
That's a deal? Wolf primers are selling for $15.50/thousand at Powder Valley and the "successor" to Wolf, Tula primers are only $20/thousand.

Stock up and save. Two boxes from Powder Valley would offset the hazmat charge and another box would offset the shipping cost.

This is the reason I stock up once or twice a year on Powder and Primers. I can't afford the "Deals" that the local Dealers offer.

Just figure out what you'll need for a year and buy it all at once. Then again, if all you need is one box that will last you a year or two, that's a whole other story.

As for the Wolf primers, I've loaded and shot many thousands of them with absolutely NO problems. Accuracy with these primers is almost that as with the Bench Rest Primers when comparing side by side in my "fine tuned loads". The Tula's which are now stocked by many Distributors are just as good.

Waldog
July 9, 2011, 12:26 PM
I have shot 2 sleves (5000 small pistol and 5000 lrg pistol) No problems.

gpwelding1
July 9, 2011, 12:34 PM
thanks for the heads up amlevin.im new to reloading,and this is the kind of stuff i need to know.

bds
July 9, 2011, 12:37 PM
$28/1K is not that good of a price for Wolf primers. Local gun show last month was selling them for $19/1K. You can buy them for $15.50/1K from Powder Valley.

I have used Wolf LP bronze/brass cup primers with very consistent ignition but some people reported issues with silver/chrome cup SP primers having harder cups and having some failing to fire even after multiple strikes.

I have used Tula LP/SP/LR/SR/.223 primers with good results also, but reserve Wolf/Tula primers for range practice/plinking rounds only. For match/SD/HD practice ammo, I prefer Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers as I never had a primer related misfire in 16 years and several hundred thousand reloads.

gpwelding1
July 9, 2011, 12:48 PM
i know this is off topik from my thread,but i just saw a advertisenent in the Dillon blue press catolog for plated handgun bullets.why are they cheaper than jacketed rounds,and do they load the same?

petrey10
July 9, 2011, 01:09 PM
^they load like lead bullets i believe... you may want Dillon to clarify this tho

the plating is there to reduce leading up the barrel...

greyling22
July 9, 2011, 02:31 PM
they're harder to pop than winchester other brand. If you run light springs you might have a problem. Other than that they're been fine for me.

bds
July 9, 2011, 02:33 PM
plated handgun bullets.why are they cheaper than jacketed rounds,and do they load the same?
If they are sized like jacketed bullets (Rainer, PowerBond (http://powerbondbullets.com/products.html), X-Treme (http://xtremebullets.com/plated.htm)), I load them using jacketed load data or I won't get reliable slide cycling unless I push them high to near max load data.

If they are sized like lead bullets (Berry's), I load them using lead load data or start-mid range jacketed load data.

If you are buying bulk bullets (1000+), plated bullet prices are usually about 20-25+% cheaper than jacketed bullets (but not always, so shop around).

i just saw a advertisenent ... for plated handgun bullets
Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/) has very good prices for Berry's bullets, may want to do some price comparison.

Waldog
July 9, 2011, 05:06 PM
i know this is off topik from my thread,but i just saw a advertisenent in the Dillon blue press catolog for plated handgun bullets.why are they cheaper than jacketed rounds,and do they load the same?

Plated bullets are just LEAD bullets that have been electoplated with a copper wash. The wash is thin. On the order of .001 to .003 thick. If you buy bullets by the case, you can usually get them nearly AS CHEAP AS, plated bullets. Plain lead bullets are slightly cheaper but, a whole lot dirtier to shoot.

Go here: https://secure.mooseweb.com/montanagoldbullet.com/pricelist.tpl

4000 9mm 115 gr FMJ is $298, including shipping. ($7.45 @ 100)

rhenriksen
July 9, 2011, 05:29 PM
I've had the primers fail to ignite 2-4% of the time with the batch of Wolf small pistol primers I bought last year. Using them in .40 S&W, in a M&P pistol.

Seedtick
July 9, 2011, 05:59 PM
gp, I had the same question a few weeks back and got great feedback from the guys.

Here's a link to that thread --> Wolf Primers? (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=587668) <--

Me and my son-in-law pooled our funds and ordered ~ 22 lbs of powder and 18 K primers from Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/index.html). All but 5 K of the primers were Wolf/Tula at $15.50/$20 per K. I have loaded several of the small and large pistol W/T primers but I haven't got to shoot but just a few of them so far. They loaded fine though and I doubt there will be any problems with them.

For the difference in the price a couple of thousand of the Wolf's will pay for the HazMat so anything besides those will be freebies.....Give em a try.

Seedtick

:)

Redneck with a 40
July 9, 2011, 08:10 PM
I've loaded several thousand pistol rounds with Wolf primer's that were bought several years ago, no issues with them. I'd buy'em again.

zxcvbob
July 9, 2011, 08:19 PM
they're harder to pop than winchester other brand. If you run light springs you might have a problem. Other than that they're been fine for me.
I had no problems at all with my first 5000 Wolf SP primers. They were brass-colored. I heard about some Wolf nickel-colored SP primers being way too hard, so I skipped those and bought Tulas. They are nickel, and I've had some take 2 strikes to go off in a double action revolver -- and yes they were seated below flush. So I use them for practice ammo (occasional misfire is good during practice, you can see if you're flinching or jerking the trigger) and I use Federals for my serious stuff.

They're likely just fine in a semiauto unless it has weak springs. I will find out next time I load some 9.

jhansman
July 9, 2011, 08:20 PM
I bought a brick of Wolf LP primers back when that was about all you could get; out of the first 300 , I've had about 4 duds, too many in my view. Only CCI or Winchester for me now.

zxcvbob
July 9, 2011, 09:16 PM
I've not had *any* problems with Wolf LP or SR primers, nor Tula LP's.

HK SD9 Tactical
July 9, 2011, 10:41 PM
I have shot over 15000 rounds primed with Wolf primers. I have had nothing but good times with them. They can be a little hard though and you need to make sure that the hard primers will not be a problem with your particular firearm.

kingmt
July 10, 2011, 03:17 PM
I hope I like them. I just ordered 21K of them.

I keep hearing there the same as Tula & Tula is my favorite so far.

FirinFlatTop
July 10, 2011, 08:49 PM
so let me get this right,,, a more expensive primer is better than a 15.50 wolf primer? Why use something different if it works.

"I have used Tula LP/SP/LR/SR/.223 primers with good results also, but reserve Wolf/Tula primers for range practice/plinking rounds only. For match/SD/HD practice ammo, I prefer Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers as I never had a primer related misfire in 16 years and several hundred thousand reloads. "

Have you had any of these not go bang? the wolf and tula, I know your answer on the others. Just asking.

20000 tula large and small, and 5000 wolf sm mag everyone worked. Guess I am lucky.


RC

Blue68f100
July 10, 2011, 08:57 PM
I've used them without any problems some 15k SP. It was all I could find when there was a shortage. The cap are a little harder than CCI's so if your using reduced power springs you way want to move/stay with Federal. But for the price they are hard to beat for practice ammo.

evan price
July 10, 2011, 10:06 PM
I honchoed a group buy on another forum a couple years ago, for 255,000 Wolf primers, had no complaints from anyone and went to get more in most cases.

I can get Federals locally for $26/thou and I'd never pay that much for Wolf/Tula.

dbarnhart
July 10, 2011, 10:37 PM
>>i just found a pretty good deal on wolf small pistol primers,$28 per 1k<<

I can buy Winchester and CCI primers locally for less than that. I'd say pass on them and keep looking.

bubbacrabb
July 11, 2011, 12:12 AM
I hope they work well, after reading this I just ordered 10k of wolf lpp, and 5k of tula spp from PV, worked out to just under 300 bucks so that averages out to about 20 dollars per 1k which is not obtainable where I am in AZ to my knowledge, plus without having to pay sales tax I think I came out way ahead of buying from the local places.

gpwelding1
July 11, 2011, 01:57 PM
ok,i went to powder vallys web site.i only saw wolf small pistol magnum primers,no wolf small pistol.can the magnum primers be used in a standard load?

zxcvbob
July 11, 2011, 02:04 PM
ok,i went to powder vallys web site.i only saw wolf small pistol magnum primers,no wolf small pistol.can the magnum primers be used in a standard load?Yes. But if you are at (or near) a max load, you need to back off the powder and work it up again.

Your groups may open up or get tighter switching to a hotter primer; it can go either way depending on what the powder likes.

gpwelding1
July 11, 2011, 02:13 PM
ok,im putting in a order for them right now:).thanks for the help zxcvbob.

amlevin
July 11, 2011, 02:21 PM
The Wolf Magnum primers have a thicker cup. If you have ignition problems due to weak springs this is not the way to go. If not they're great. I used them in some 9mm loads and didn't have any issues even with max standard loads. Who knows, maybe it made them +P. Didn't check the speeds but had no pressure signs. Accuracy was good too.

gpwelding1
July 11, 2011, 02:54 PM
amlevin,i know this is going to seem like a dumb question.but what does +p stand for?i have seen it many,many times.but still dont know.:o

HK SD9 Tactical
July 11, 2011, 03:12 PM
amlevin,i know this is going to seem like a dumb question.but what does +p stand for?i have seen it many,many times.but still dont know.:o
Ammunition that has been loaded to a higher velocity than normal (thus a higher pressure). You have +p and +p+. I think the +p is about 10% more than standard ammo.

gpwelding1
July 11, 2011, 03:17 PM
ok,thanks for clearing that up for me.

ny32182
July 11, 2011, 03:20 PM
I just finished my first case of 5k wolf SP; 4999 of them went bang on the first hit with my stock Glock trigger. The one that didn't had such a light strike mark that I figure it was probably not all the way into battery, and it went bang on the second hit.

Since Tulas are said to be the same thing I ordered 15k, which hopefully will last me for a little while.

bds
July 11, 2011, 10:14 PM
so let me get this right,,, a more expensive primer is better than a 15.50 wolf primer? Why use something different if it works. Have you had any of these not go bang? the wolf and tula, I know your answer on the others. Just asking.

I have used Tula LP/SP/LR/SR/.223 primers with good results also, but reserve Wolf/Tula primers for range practice/plinking rounds only. For match/SD/HD practice ammo, I prefer Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers as I never had a primer related misfire in 16 years and several hundred thousand reloads.
My PREFERENCE for Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers for match/SD/HD practice ammo comes from my experience that Wolf/Tula primers are tighter in the primer pockets than Winchester/CCI primers. This forces me to really press hard on the hand primer with some "Ooommph" to seat them. With Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers, it takes less effort and I can focus more on when the primer anvils are properly set inside the primer cup (.004" below flush). I do not have such fine control when seating Wolf/Tula primers as I am just trying to get them seated and being able to tell when the anvil is properly set is difficult. In comparison, Magtech (Brazilian) and PMC (Russian) primers are easier to seat like Winchester/CCI so primer anvils can be better set properly.

I have always used Winchester primers for pistol load development and accuracy testing. Perhaps I can do a comparison test between Winchester/Wolf/Tula LP primers to see if there is any difference in shot group sizes.

kingmt
July 13, 2011, 09:21 AM
bds

I would have never considered your thought process but it makes very good since & shows you pay great attention to detail. I've also gathered this perception about you from other post you've made.

I use a ram prime now & find them just as easy. CCI was always the hardest primers for me to seat with the presses priming system & Tula seemed a bit easier.

S$W66
July 13, 2011, 12:28 PM
I bought some Wolf back when was primer shortage and haven't had any problems with them and no duds yet. Hard to beat the price but seems i keep going back to CCI but i have had same luck with the Wolf primers.

gpwelding1
July 13, 2011, 12:50 PM
i went to my LGS yesterday and picked up a box of wolfs just to get me started.tax and all $26 + some change.i primed 9mm luger brass with them.the did good in my new press with the ramprime,but when i inspected them afterward i found 1 that had a faint impresion mark on the primer head.
im not sure if it was a defect in the primer or if it came from my ram prime.
either way,is it safe to go ahead and charge / load that round?

ny32182
July 13, 2011, 02:15 PM
Yes, as long as it is seated squarely, minor deformations in the cup are not anything to worry about. They won't be there after you shoot.:)

EMC45
July 13, 2011, 02:23 PM
Bought 5000 earlier this year for $20 a thousand. 4000 LP and 1000 SP. Just shot 100 rounds of .45 ACP and no problems! They were in Wolf steel cases with a 230gr. TC cast bullet with 4.5gr. Bullseye. Shot all 100 out of my new(used) Glock 36 and they ran without a hitch.

mgmorden
July 13, 2011, 02:53 PM
I bought some Wolf back when was primer shortage and haven't had any problems with them and no duds yet. Hard to beat the price but seems i keep going back to CCI but i have had same luck with the Wolf primers.

That's been my experience too. I bought a few trays of Wolf when the shortage was on just because that's what I found, and I had no issues, but there's always a nagging feeling of doubt when using them. CCI is domestically manufactured, I trust them more, and in most cases the cost increase over Wolf is pretty minimal.

The only problem I've ever had with CCI primers is that I got ONE in a pack once that didn't have an anvil. I caught the problem while it was in the tray so it wasn't ever an issue while firing, but if I hadn't inspected them beforehand that would have been a dud round.

FirinFlatTop
July 13, 2011, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by FirinFlatTop
so let me get this right,,, a more expensive primer is better than a 15.50 wolf primer? Why use something different if it works. Have you had any of these not go bang? the wolf and tula, I know your answer on the others. Just asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bds
I have used Tula LP/SP/LR/SR/.223 primers with good results also, but reserve Wolf/Tula primers for range practice/plinking rounds only. For match/SD/HD practice ammo, I prefer Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers as I never had a primer related misfire in 16 years and several hundred thousand reloads.
My PREFERENCE for Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers for match/SD/HD practice ammo comes from my experience that Wolf/Tula primers are tighter in the primer pockets than Winchester/CCI primers. This forces me to really press hard on the hand primer with some "Ooommph" to seat them. With Winchester/CCI/BR2 primers, it takes less effort and I can focus more on when the primer anvils are properly set inside the primer cup (.004" below flush). I do not have such fine control when seating Wolf/Tula primers as I am just trying to get them seated and being able to tell when the anvil is properly set is difficult. In comparison, Magtech (Brazilian) and PMC (Russian) primers are easier to seat like Winchester/CCI so primer anvils can be better set properly.

I have always used Winchester primers for pistol load development and accuracy testing. Perhaps I can do a comparison test between Winchester/Wolf/Tula LP primers to see if there is any difference in shot group sizes.


So, what I am getting from this is you can set a primer to deep? I understand what your getting at.

I don't shot for nothin but pleasure. I have used other primers also, but I set on my loader, not hand primer.

my detail is not up to the high standard you are looking for.

I also like the color of the tula small mag primers.... lol

Was not looking for a fight,, was just askin. Thanks for the reply.


RC

bds
July 13, 2011, 06:55 PM
This is THR, no fights - just objective discussions (usually). :)

gpwelding1
July 14, 2011, 01:06 PM
ok, im still confused about somthing.when i look through the load data in my hodgeins load data manual,i see diffrent small pistol primers for difrent calibers.
am i missing somthing there,or are these just what they loaded the test load with?:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

ny32182
July 14, 2011, 01:20 PM
They are just listing the brand they happened to test with. Any small pistol, non-magnum primer is pretty much the same.

If they indicated they used "small pistol magnum", you might want to use those. "Magnum" primers have slightly more pop than non-magnum, typically for starting larger powder charges.

gpwelding1
July 14, 2011, 01:44 PM
thats what i was hopeing to hear.the wolf primers did realy good in my 9mm's.so i was wanting to try them in my .40 s&w's too.

HK SD9 Tactical
July 14, 2011, 01:56 PM
Not all primers are created equally or fairly close for that matter. That is why they recommend that when you change any item in any cartridge set up, you should drop down 10% and work up again.

Here is something I found several years ago - it shows the difference in some primers.

http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

gpwelding1
July 14, 2011, 02:17 PM
Not all primers are created equally or fairly close for that matter. That is why they recommend that when you change any item in any cartridge set up, you should drop down 10% and work up again.

Here is something I found several years ago - it shows the difference in some primers.

http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html
thanks for that link HK SD9 Tactical.i didnt realize the diffrence was that major.
the ABC's are number one advice for beginer reloaders,but i think these photos should be the second thing a new reloader see's.

bds
July 15, 2011, 01:12 PM
Primer ignition picture link by HK SD9 Tactical was done by German Salazar from TheRiflemansJournal.com (http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html) (he's a regular poster at 6mmbr.com) and here is his comprehensive and detailed SR/LR comparison testing links starting with the Wolf .223 - http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/08/primers-wolf-223-primer.html

For pistol loads:
- I have found Wolf/Tula LP (bronze/brass) primers comparable in performance to Winchester LP.

- I have not used Wolf SP, but found Tula/Magtech SP (nickel/chrome) primers comparable to Winchester SP.

- My experience with PMC SP (brass) primers is that they burn less hotter than Winchester/Magtech SP and require additional .2-.3 gr powder charge of W231/HP-38 to match the performance/recoil/POI of Winchester SP loads.


Primer cup sizes of Wolf/Tula primers tends to be a bit larger and harder than Winchester (bronze) and requires additional effort to seat them fully in the hand/press primers. For hand priming in the Auto Prime/XR, this has not been a problem other than applying much more force to seat them fully to proper depth of .004" (I hand prime all of my match/SD/HD/Rifle practice loads). For some, this has caused problems/frustration in progressive press reloading. When I am seating Wolf/Tula primers in the Pro 1000, I find myself pushing as hard as I can just to seat them flush. If you are looking to set the primer cup anvil properly to .004" depth, this is very difficult on the press. It is for this reason why I reserve Wolf/Tula primers for range practice/plinking loads and not for match/SD/HD practice loads.

PMC SP primers I use ("E" non-toxic) have the same dimension but have softer brass cup and tend to "deform" better into the primer pocket and easier to seat to proper depth. In comparison, Winchester/Magtech primers are same size and work well in progressive presses (Magtech SP primers are the best feeding primers for my Pro 1000 and I get 99.9% function as long as I keep the feed ramp full).

I hand prime all rifle cases. I have used Tula LR primer along with Winchester/CCI/BR2 LR primers and so far so good based on my initial .308 testing of no failure to ignite. I have used Tula SR/.223 in comparison to Winchester/CCI SR primers and also no failure to ignite. I have not done enough accuracy testing comparison to express which primer produces the smallest shot groups as I do individual work up for each primer (at present, I am just trying to get a decent consistent shot groups at 100-300 yards).

Other than slightly larger/harder primer cup, if they are seated to proper depth, I believe they will produce consistent primer ignition. Another benefit to larger primer cup size is if you have loose primer pockets, you can use Wolf/Tula primers and they will be tight again (There's always a silver lining to every cloud). :D

gpwelding1
July 15, 2011, 01:25 PM
Primer ignition picture link by HK SD9 Tactical was done by German Salazar from TheRiflemansJournal.com (http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html) (he's a regular poster at 6mmbr.com) and here is his comprehensive and detailed SR/LR comparison testing links starting with the Wolf .223 - http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/08/primers-wolf-223-primer.html

For pistol loads:
- I have found Wolf/Tula LP (bronze/brass) primers comparable in performance to Winchester LP.

- I have not used Wolf SP, but found Tula/Magtech SP (nickel/chrome) primers comparable to Winchester SP.

- My experience with PMC SP (brass) primers is that they burn less hotter than Winchester/Magtech SP and require additional .2-.3 gr powder charge of W231/HP-38 to match the performance/recoil/POI of Winchester SP loads.


Primer cup sizes of Wolf/Tula primers tends to be a bit larger and harder than Winchester (bronze) and requires additional effort to seat them fully in the hand/press primers. For hand priming in the Auto Prime/XR, this has not been a problem other than applying much more force to seat them fully to proper depth of .004" (I hand prime all of my match/SD/HD/Rifle practice loads). For some, this has caused problems/frustration in progressive press reloading. When I am seating Wolf/Tula primers in the Pro 1000, I find myself pushing as hard as I can just to seat them flush. If you are looking to set the primer cup anvil properly to .004" depth, this is very difficult on the press. It is for this reason why I reserve Wolf/Tula primers for range practice/plinking loads and not for match/SD/HD practice loads.

PMC SP primers I use ("E" non-toxic) have the same dimension but have softer brass cup and tend to "deform" better into the primer pocket and easier to seat to proper depth. In comparison, Winchester/Magtech primers are same size and work well in progressive presses (Magtech SP primers are the best feeding primers for my Pro 1000 and I get 99.9% function as long as I keep the feed ramp full).

I hand prime all rifle cases. I have used Tula LR primer along with Winchester/CCI/BR2 LR primers and so far so good based on my initial .308 testing of no failure to ignite. I have used Tula SR/.223 in comparison to Winchester/CCI SR primers and also no failure to ignite. I have not done enough accuracy testing comparison to express which primer produces the smallest shot groups as I do individual work up for each primer (at present, I am just trying to get a decent consistent shot groups at 100-300 yards).

Other than slightly larger/harder primer cup, if they are seated to proper depth, I believe they will produce consistent primer ignition. Another benefit to larger primer cup size is if you have loose primer pockets, you can use Wolf/Tula primers and they will be tight again (There's always a silver lining to every cloud). :D
thanks bds.that info will help me a lot!
honestly,i even took notes from your post and put them on the cork board above my reload bench.

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