Probably Buying VEPR 7.62x54R - Talk Me Out of It!


PDA






Adam123
July 11, 2011, 11:50 AM
Well, as the title says, I am strongly considering the purchase of a VEPR chambered in the awesome 7.62x54R. I am familiar with all of the rifles that are chambered in 7.62x54R, but this one has really caught my eye. One huge downside to this rifle is the price of mags, mag capacity, and availability of the aforementioned magazines. The rifle is priced right around $1,150.00. Let me know of your thoughts and certainly do post if you have any experience with these rifles.

I talked to the importer and he said a couple of companies are working on higher capacity magazines for the 7.62x54R VEPRs (can't wait to see the price tag on these when they first hit the market). The current VEPR comes with two single-stack, 5-round mags and that is exactly what the rifle is setup to accept. These mags seem to be as long as the PSL mags, but only hold half the amount. If someone produces a mag that will accept, say, 10 rounds, would it have to be in a single-stack format to function on this rifle? If so, that would be a long magazine. Conversely, would a double-stack tapered down to fit the VEPR mag well work on the 7.62x54R VEPR???

Also, I do have suspicions that these are going to be quite rare (kind of like Dragunovs are right now). I really do hope that I am wrong as I'd like to see them catch on and have reasonably priced accessories. What are your thoughts?

Lastly, I'm not interested in a Mosin, being that already have a few. So, there's no need to suggest a Mosin as an alternative.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
.
.

If you enjoyed reading about "Probably Buying VEPR 7.62x54R - Talk Me Out of It!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Mudinyeri
July 11, 2011, 12:02 PM
I had a Vepr in 7.62X39. It was a great-shooting rifle, just a little heavy for my taste. $1150 seems high but I'm not familiar with the value of a 7.62X54 vs. a 7.62X39. I had the opportunity to pick up a 54R for around $800 but passed for the same reasons you're questioning your purchase.

Cosmoline
July 11, 2011, 12:06 PM
On the contrary, I want you to buy it and come back with a detailed report! I've been eyeballing various semiauto 54R's for years. The PSL/FPK's are a seriously mixed bag. Some are good, some are importer-assembled disasters. There are some that look nice, but all are a bit light for the round and would not do well with my 200+ grain handloads.

These VEPR's appear to be RPK's on steroids, which would make them considerably stronger than PSL's (mere AK's on steroids). The early dope on these is positive, though everyone seems to be on backorder at the moment.

The extra pounds would do it good for 54R. Hopefully it would also be able to sustain a steady diet of heavy ball, which the PSL's cannot.

Some video shots--very well crafted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_YsO_rQhUs

Whoompada-whoompada-whoompada

Adam123
July 11, 2011, 12:23 PM
Mudinyeri, I do have serious reservations about magazines - that's for sure. The one that I am probably going to buy comes with 2 10-round mags. That's not bad, but I'd like to, at least, see that they are available if I want to buy a couple more of them. I can't even find them for sale on any sites.

Cosmoline, I had a PSL and sold it on GB. It was an awesome rifle, but groups really opened up after five shots... quite disheartening. The good thing was that I broke even and didn't lose a penny on the transaction. So, I am glad that I owned one, but will never buy another unless I come across an amazing deal. I was also eyeballing the Waffen Werks AK54R, but that is, more or less, a cut down PSL. I really doubt that these VEPRs will have the same issues as their earlier counterparts. These things seem like the real deal and may just be the 54R auto-loader that I've been looking for. Thanks for the video. I just watched it a few hours ago. I am not sure of the diameter of that barrel, but damn, that is thick!... what a monster....

[Edit] If anyone know of these magazines being sold, please do post.
.
.

Cal-gun Fan
July 11, 2011, 01:08 PM
@Adam: Don't the x54rs come with 5 rounders? I know the .308 ones come with 10s, but Atlantic told me the x54r comes with a 5 round magazine. The magazines also look like they will be very expensive.

It looks like a sweet rifle. For the price though? Ehh...If I was looking for an accurate rifle in 7.62x54r, which is a round that I love, but hate that there are few available and practical rifles in that caliber, I would get an M39 for the fraction of the price, and use the rest of the money to get a reloading setup for x54r and maybe even some 7N1 russian ammunition, as much of it as I could afford since it is becoming more and more scarce.

fireman 9731
July 11, 2011, 01:14 PM
I had a PSL and sold it. It was awesome in the coolness factor but not that fun to shoot, and not that accurate. I think the straw that broke the camels back on selling it was how much of a pain it was to clean after shooting surplus ammo. The whole appeal of shooting cheap ammo goes out the window after you clean it a few times. I pretty much had to detail strip it to clean it, the trigger group and everything. Its a whole lot more work than cleaning up a Mosin after shooting.

It chewed up cases and spit them out with such voracity that reloading was out of the question for me..... I lusted over one forever and when I finally got it, I was disappointed. I tried and tried but it was basically just a really loud AK that looked cooler and shot worse.

With that said, there needs to be a nice semi-auto x54 on the market and the VEPR might be it....

Adam123
July 11, 2011, 02:57 PM
Cal-gun fan, I have three Mosins and just bought my fourth. I don't need another Mosin, but would love to have a top-quality semi-auto in 7.62x54R.
.
.

Adam123
July 11, 2011, 05:36 PM
@Adam: Don't the x54rs come with 5 rounders? I know the .308 ones come with 10s, but Atlantic told me the x54r comes with a 5 round magazine. The magazines also look like they will be very expensive.



Cal-Gun Fan, I found out from the importer that these indeed come with 5-round mags. The website that has these rifles made a mistake when posting the specs. That is a bit disheartening. I think a rifle such as this should come standard with 10-round mags.

This brings me to my next point. I talked to the importer and he said a couple of companies are working on higher capacity magazines for the 7.62x54R VEPRs (can't wait to see the price tag on these when they first hit the market). The current VEPR comes with two single-stack, 5-round mags and that is exactly what the rifle is setup to accept. These mags seem to be as long as the PSL mags, but only hold half the amount. If someone produces a mag that will accept, say, 10 rounds, would it have to be in a single-stack format to function on this rifle? If so, that would be a long magazine. Conversely, would a double-stack tapered down to fit the VEPR mag well work on the 7.62x54R VEPR???
.
.

MistWolf
July 11, 2011, 06:24 PM
As the original post gives the 7.62x54 the fanboi title of "awesome", it's already too late to talk any sense

Adam123
July 11, 2011, 06:37 PM
As the original post gives the 7.62x54 the fanboi title of "awesome", it's already too late to talk any sense

I can buy 7.62x54R for $0.17 per round. With that ammo, I can shoot 1" groups (maybe less) at 100 yards with a Mosin Nagant. That is why I call it awesome. It's an unparalleled bang-for-your-buck caliber. If you disagree, I'd be forced to call you an idiot. There is not a comparable caliber priced anywhere near 7.62x54R. So, before you try to flame or insult someone, take your head out of your a$$, clear the cobwebs out of the unused regions of your brain, think for a few minutes, and then post a constructive reply. Thanks.

Cosmoline
July 11, 2011, 07:06 PM
Let's stay high road.

Besides, everyone knows 54R is awesome.

Cal-gun Fan
July 11, 2011, 07:37 PM
As the original post gives the 7.62x54 the fanboi title of "awesome", it's already too late to talk any sense
Mature, buddy.

About the magazines: I personally wouldn't believe a word of it, Adam. To put it into perspective-how long have there been PSL's in the country? Longer than I've been alive, probably. And how companies make above ten round magazines for them (not Bren-gun hackjobs)? None.

There are a lot more people with PSLs than there are going to be with VEPR 54rs. I guess what I'm getting at is...don't count on there being anything besides factory magazines available.
I honestly would love a good semi auto in 7.62x54r. Maybe the VEPR will be it, but I want to hear a lot of information about it first. Accuracy reports, lots of testing, can the stocks be replaced, etc first.

Adam123
July 11, 2011, 08:06 PM
Cal-Gun Fan, I agree 100% and I've already decided to pass on the purchase, as much as I want one. That's not to say that I won't buy one in the future, but for now, this firearm is just too rare and uncommon. I really like everything about the rifle aside from the magazine issue. I'd be willing to settle for 5-rounds if they were priced reasonably, but from what I've seen, they are somewhere near $60.00 per mag. That is utterly ridiculous. Nonetheless, I will be watching out to see what happens with these VEPRs and will own one if a few factors change for the better. Thanks for all of your input, guys.
.
.

Cal-gun Fan
July 11, 2011, 09:29 PM
Good choice for now, IMO. Right now, I think they're just too new-I don't think that anybody actually has one yet. In a couple of months, I figure there will be more information out about them, some reviews and accuracy reports, maybe some news on magazines (though I doubt that). If it turns out to be a rifle that can achieve somewhere around sub-MOA accuracy, It would be something to look into. However, I would like to see more parts and accessories available before I ever bought one. $60 for a 5 round mag is far to rich for my tastes.

Mr.Barty
July 11, 2011, 09:35 PM
Go find a mosin nagant rifle, buy several stripper clips, a few cans of surplus ammo to start you off and you've got yourself a piece of fun for the rest of your life.

ifit
July 11, 2011, 09:57 PM
next question is, will there ever be another shipment of veprs coming again to our shores? thats why i purchased a super vepr just in case, which i wanted for the longest time.

Cal-gun Fan
July 11, 2011, 10:09 PM
Go find a mosin nagant rifle, buy several stripper clips, a few cans of surplus ammo to start you off and you've got yourself a piece of fun for the rest of your life.
He already has several he said. Sometimes we all want a change of pace, and unfortunately there isn't that much out there for x54r.

Adam123
July 11, 2011, 11:14 PM
Mr Barty, I already have a few Mosins and am a huge fan of them. I had a distant cousin refer me to them when I was telling him about the PSL that I wanted and I've enjoyed them ever since. In my opinion, they are the best deal in firearms.

Ifit, you and Cal-Gun Fan represent the two parts of my brain that have been fighting each other over the past couple of days. You both make great points, but in the end, I'd rather be without one given the current circumstances, rather than have one with parts/accessories being so rare and hard to find. If the magazine market starts to look a lot better, I'll buy one, but not until then.
.
.

MistWolf
July 12, 2011, 07:27 AM
I can buy 7.62x54R for $0.17 per round. With that ammo, I can shoot 1" groups (maybe less) at 100 yards with a Mosin Nagant. That is why I call it awesome. It's an unparalleled bang-for-your-buck caliber. If you disagree, I'd be forced to call you an idiot. There is not a comparable caliber priced anywhere near 7.62x54R...

Cheap? Certainly. 1 inch groups @ 100 with a Mosin Nagant? With cheap surplus ammo? That would be very exceptional. Unparalleled bang for the buck? Well, the bang is cheap at least. All considered, the 7.62x54 is an ok round and can be fun to shoot. Awesome? No. It's body taper while good for extraction and it's rimmed case simplifies headspacing, both complicate designing a box magazine. The rim also complicates loading the magazine. If the rim of the upper cartridge falls behind the rim of the lower, it can prevent it from feeding.

There is no denying that playing around with an odd-ball round like the 7.62x54 can be fun and the Finns proved it's combat effectiveness against the Russians. But it really doesn't do anything particularly well, nothing well enough to lift it from "fun & interesting" to "awesome"

Mr.Barty
July 12, 2011, 10:29 AM
In that case, look around on some auction sites or gun shows for a SVT-40 if your looking for something different.
It uses a detachable magazine and if you can't find any, you should be set as it can also use mosin nagant stripper clips to load it.

Cosmoline
July 12, 2011, 12:05 PM
But it really doesn't do anything particularly well, nothing well enough to lift it from "fun & interesting" to "awesome"

Sure it does. It's been around since my great grandfather was a little boy, and it's served in just about every war since. Plus it hits plenty hard, is a lot of fun to handload and throws a ferocious fireball out of the carbines.

Yes rimlock can be irritating, but you don't have to be the most efficient to be awesome.

SDC
July 12, 2011, 12:13 PM
It would be interesting to see someone import the "Berkut" (Golden Eagle), in either .308 or 7.62x54; these are made by Tula KBP, and aren't based on the AK or RPK, but do look sort of interesting. The 7.62x54 version will accept SVD mags.
http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/003517/thm/3517337.jpg

amd6547
July 12, 2011, 12:19 PM
I am wondering if you could convert VPER to use PSL mags....

Cal-gun Fan
July 12, 2011, 12:29 PM
That would be interesting to see and might get people off of the fence about buying one, me included.
Still...I want to hear accuracy.

Adam123
July 12, 2011, 09:29 PM
MistyWolf, I'll tell you something else that I find awesome - your untiring drive to convince me (a complete stranger) that 7.62x54R is not awesome. It's the equivalent of me trying to convince you that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches suck after hearing that you find them to be delicious. The entire premise of your argument is pointless. I really don't care. I still think 7.62x54R is awesome after reading your passionate posts, and I will consider it to be awesome if you respond with 500 more posts, full of technical data, all endorsed by the President of Awesome Ammunition Board of America International. Seriously, don't you have anything better to do?

Mr Barty, SVT-40s are cool, but more collectible than modern, functional shooters. All of the SVT-40s that I see look to be trashed, worn, and battered. I'd love to get one in good shape, but doubt I'd be willing to pay the asking price.

SDC, the Berkut would be cool, but one would still be stuck dealing with the hard-to-find SVD mags. I've not seen them for less than $80.00 per mag.

Amd6547, your idea is reasonable, but that would probably entail a lot of work. I am sure that the receiver would have to be cut in order to accept the larger mag due t the VEPR coming in a single-stack configuration. I wouldn't want to be the first to try it.
.
.

Greenmachin3
July 12, 2011, 10:58 PM
It would be cool to see someone CMM the Lahti-Saloranta M/26 20 round 7.62x54r magazine so they have a perfect CAD drawing. Modify it to fit the Vepr, strengthen the feed lips, give it a stronger spring and make some tooling to stamp and weld em out.

*shrugs*

Cal-gun Fan
July 12, 2011, 11:12 PM
It could be good, but for all that work I think a company could easily take a Vepr mag and just use the design to create their own magazines rather than use old surplus magazines.

I just think that its doubtful they would be produced. I would guess that the curve of the magazine would make it hard to feed rimmed rounds upward.

MistWolf
July 13, 2011, 12:07 AM
MistyWolf, I'll tell you something else that I find awesome - your untiring drive to convince me (a complete stranger) that 7.62x54R is not awesome. It's the equivalent of me trying to convince you that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches suck after hearing that you find them to be delicious. The entire premise of your argument is pointless. I really don't care. I still think 7.62x54R is awesome after reading your passionate posts, and I will consider it to be awesome if you respond with 500 more posts, full of technical data, all endorsed by the President of Awesome Ammunition Board of America International. Seriously, don't you have anything better to do?...

Thank you for taking me seriously. I was starting to think I was just a joke. Totally awesome!

PS- Only 499 to go

Cosmoline
July 13, 2011, 12:22 PM
Maybe we can all agree that 54R, if not awesome, is at least gnarly and bodacious.

Adam123
July 13, 2011, 03:15 PM
Maybe we can all agree that 54R, if not awesome, is at least gnarly and bodacious.

Cosmoline, I'll concede to that, but Ill have to add spectacular, amazing, irresistible, confounding, breathtaking, remarkable, stunning, extraordinary, wondrous, fabulous, and prodigious to your proposal.
.
.

fireman 9731
July 13, 2011, 11:00 PM
gnarly and bodacious

I couldn't of said it better myself!

Greenmachin3
July 14, 2011, 04:40 PM
I say awesome. For I am held in awe at how relevant it still is considering the year the cartridge was designed. Eccentric, accurate, powerful, and most of all, fun. Its only drawback IMO is the rim which inhibits magazine design.

Atlantic Firearms
July 16, 2011, 08:23 AM
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/VEPR54R.jpg

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/VEPR54R4.jpg

Atlantic Firearms
July 16, 2011, 08:24 AM
Here is a You Tube Video comparing the Vepr to the Romanian PSL


http://www.youtube.com/user/AtlanticFirearms#p/a/u/1/9_YsO_rQhUs

Adam123
July 16, 2011, 08:50 AM
AF, thanks for the link, but that has already been posted in this thread. The comparison is nice, and from everything I have been hearing/reading, the VEPR is one hell of a rifle. The features go above and beyond what most sellers list (most simply list obvious and basic specs) and there is a lot more to this rifle than just it being another AK variant. I really want one, but as stated previously, I would like to see more in terms of magazine selection and availability. I see no one selling mags and only 2 five-rounders come with the rifle. Will ten-rounders be available and, if so, what is the expected price? Are ten-rounders currently available in Russia, but not here, in the States? The rifle, for me, is not in question. It's the magazine market that has me concerned.
.
.

Atlantic Firearms
July 16, 2011, 10:49 AM
Sorry we can not give you firm info on hi cap mags at this time all we can say is there are a few firms looking at US produced mags . Another importer is working on a possible contract for Russian hi cap mags but nothing nailed down yet.

Adam123
July 16, 2011, 11:08 AM
Well, once something is firm and definite, I'll be buying one, but not until that time. I do remain pessimistic on this point being that VEPRs are so rare (especially in the 7.62x54R) and I will be absolutely shocked if a company makes the investment to start manufacturing these mags. I still would like to know if higher capacity magazines exist in Russia (for the 54R) and if there is a chance that these mags, if they exist, will ever be imported to the U.S.
.
.

Ditchtiger
July 16, 2011, 11:24 AM
To bad you passed on an SVT40.
Is the VEPR just a dressed up PSL?

Adam123
July 16, 2011, 12:40 PM
Ditchtiger, I never passed on an SVT-40. In fact, I've never see on in half-decent shape for less that $1,200.00. For me, they are too rare and expensive if one is after a rifle solely for the purpose of having a shooter. I'm not looking for a collector's piece. I am after a well-built semi-auto chambered in 54R that is in great/new condition.

As far as I can tell, everything (barrel, trunnions, receiver, gas block, etc) on the VEPR is better than a PSL. In my opinion, VEPRs take a big dump on PSLs.
.
.

_N4Z_
July 16, 2011, 02:11 PM
Mmmmmmmm *drooling over the VEPR pics*

Damn sure wouldn't rest the barrel on that rock if it were mine. :scrutiny:

Atlantic Firearms
July 16, 2011, 03:06 PM
We have a SVT 40 in our current inventory and it is avery nice piece however the Vepr is a more accurate weapon and has a better build .

Atlantic Firearms
July 16, 2011, 03:08 PM
We also offered the PSL rifles and the Vepr Blows the PSL rifles away in quality & accuracy but they should for the extra money.

Adam123
July 17, 2011, 07:54 AM
AF, do you mind providing a link to your SVT-40s. I went to your site, but don't see them. Thanks.
.
.

Atlantic Firearms
July 17, 2011, 09:05 AM
We do not have the SVT 40 rifles for sale this is one in our Russian Rifle colletion on display.

Ditchtiger
July 17, 2011, 10:01 PM
Good SVT40's are out there.
I picked up a refurb. for $900, no scratches on the metal or wood.
Also has a bore that looks brand new.

I will look into getting a VEPR as I worry about hurting my SVT40
should something unforeseen happen.

Have not been impressed with the PSL's.

Cosmoline
July 18, 2011, 01:55 PM
Hey Atlantic! Thanks for dropping by the thread. I have a question--how are these set for heavy ball in the 180-203 grain range?

ifit
July 18, 2011, 05:59 PM
on another forum, posted his new vepr 54r and shot 174 grains with no problems with good accuracy. he also posted some pics which caught my attention the bolt carrier return spring, its actually two springs seperated by a metal washer, rear spring seems to be thicker as compared to the front. maybe to shoot heavier grain bullets, not 100% sure though

Adam123
July 19, 2011, 09:25 AM
Does anyone know what kind of scope mount the 7.62x54R will accept? I've heard two different types of mounts from two different sellers.
.
.

ifit
July 19, 2011, 04:11 PM
did you finally decide to get one or what?

Cal-gun Fan
July 19, 2011, 04:54 PM
Wonder if you could get one to take standard AK handguards.

Adam123
July 19, 2011, 05:28 PM
Ifit, I did not. I like a bit more than five-round capacity out of a semi-auto. Otherwise, it has no huge advantage over my M44 (and I'd be shocked if it could outshoot my M44). I think 15-20 should be attainable and ten obviously is with the 54R. Hell, they were making ten-rounders in the 1930s. I don't like the fact that it's setup to accept single-stack mags. Also, mags are hard to find and expensive considering they only have a five round capacity. I think that it's a good idea to convert it to accept PSL mags, but I wouldn't want to start cutting the receiver to my new rifle to find out if it's possible. I am still not sure of the scope mount that the 54R VEPR will accept. I really can't tell from photos and I have been told two different things from two different sellers. One told me that it would accept a standard AK mount. Another said that it would only accept a Mosin Nagant mount and scope setup (?????).

ifit
July 19, 2011, 07:11 PM
another forums, gentlmen mounted his psl scope onto his new vepr 54r with no problems. wow, your m44 must be a tack driver compared to the new vepr 54r, is it a stock m44? would like more info cause i have a m38 and would like it to shoot better than any vepr 54r

hilljack
July 19, 2011, 07:28 PM
The Vepr has a standard AK side mount rail.

Adam123
July 19, 2011, 08:29 PM
Ifit, it is a tack driver, but not stock. It has optics amongst other mods and is very accurate.

Hilljack, that's interesting and I hope you are correct. Someone from Centerfire told me that they took some sort of Mosin mount that I've never heard. I asked him if he was 100% positive and he assured me that he was correct.... guess he wasn't.
.
.

Adam123
August 13, 2011, 08:44 AM
I am still wanting to buy the 54R VEPR, but the only thing that is holding me back is the mag capacity. I've just started to entertain the idea of trying PSL mags. Do you guys know of a good gunsmith/company the could convert the VEPR to accept PSL mags?

aubie515
August 13, 2011, 08:54 AM
Guy on Saiga forum will probably make them since he's in the process of offering 20-25rd VEPR mags for the 308 version. I believe that AF contacted him about making 54R mags as well.

I got to handle my first Vepr yesterday in a 5.45 and I must say build quality is all that has been reported. It is a solid rifle that does add some weight, but in a good way. I have a feeling that I will be owning a Vepr sometime this year.

I really like the Super Vepr .308, but the price tag is a bit high IMO for a Russian firearm.

hilljack
August 14, 2011, 12:13 AM
The 5 round mags do suck. They are functional, but it is a bummer they didn't use SVD mags. I plan on talking to Krebs about converting it to take SVD mags. Dunno if they can or will do it, but ya don't know unless you ask.

Cal-gun Fan
August 14, 2011, 12:51 AM
Why SVD mags? They are less common and more expensive than PSL mags.

Usertag
August 14, 2011, 01:02 AM
It sounds like your in a bad position right now. This is a question I really can't help you out on. Besides that if a SVD-1 parts can fit on the PSL. Then you are in luck because SVD parts are relatively cheap. But also I know that the SVD has only older accesories (1970-2000). So you will have to deal with technology that is not as advanced as todays Scopes, Rails, Stocks, ETC.

hilljack
August 14, 2011, 01:26 AM
Why SVD mags? They are less common and more expensive than PSL mags.
Two reasons:
1. They are Russian
2. I have several SVD mags

I'd prefer to keep Russian mags in it, if I'm having it converted anyway.

Adam123
August 14, 2011, 09:58 AM
The 5 round mags do suck. They are functional, but it is a bummer they didn't use SVD mags. I plan on talking to Krebs about converting it to take SVD mags. Dunno if they can or will do it, but ya don't know unless you ask.

If they were to use any mags aside from the factory mags, I think PSL would only be the practical choice. PSL mags are a LOT cheaper. I can get them for a bit less than $20.00/mag and SVD mags are something like $100.00/mag.

... but let's keep this on point. I am wondering who I could get to do a conversion for the 54R VEPR to accept PSL mags.

Aubie, would you mind providing a link? That would be great. Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Probably Buying VEPR 7.62x54R - Talk Me Out of It!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!