[B1gGr33n]

Stopped in a Pawn America this past weekend, saw it in a cabinet while browsing their knives. Thought to myself "What the heck, I've spent $10 on worse things" :p I know it's just a cheapy, but it has already been quite the conversation piece.

Best I can figure, the head and flails are cast aluminum, and the head is held to the shaft with a flush pressed pin. The chains don't look like they'd stand up to any serious use (not that they'll ever have to). But hey, I didn't buy it to use it, I bought it to look at it :D

http://www.flickr.com/photos/87873174@N00/5929846151/http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6003/5929846151_4f396fb439.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87873174@N00/5929846151/) http://www.flickr.com/photos/87873174@N00/5929846151/

[BRad704]

It certainly looks... ummm.... Daunting...

For $10, what the heck, why not... :)

[USAF_Vet]

I had a single ball flail. Gave it to my brother, but it was cheaply made. Neat wall hanger, but completely inefficient weapon.

[Mp7]

i don´t think morning-stars were ever used without the wielder wearing
at least chainmail and a helmet .... anyone who´ever hit himself with nunchacks in the head knows why :)

[hso]

anyone who´ever hit himself with nunchacks in the head knows why

Don't forget to wear a cup!

[B1gGr33n]

I was joking with my fiance that it would be a good one to keep in her purse. I can't help thinking that if you were to pull this on an attacker, the shock on their face would be priceless... as well as that vital moment of pause to your advantage lol

[Joe Demko]

In addition to menacing the user's head and groin, that flail looks like it would also put the user's hand in danger. I wonder how much actual use such weapons saw.

[B1gGr33n]

Joe: You raise a good point. I did some research on these after I bought it, and found that they were actually fairly common in medieval ages. The best ones utilized by professional soldiers were entirely metal, with a longer shaft, about 3-4 feet long, that kept the hand/s clear of the flails. The purpose of the weapon was to defeat an opponents shield by striking the edge of the shield with the shaft, and allowing the flails to strike blows to the opponents body. They were used by both infantry and cavalry, though cavalry tended to use single flails with shorter shafts.

[Jim Watson]

I agree, I would not want to swing a flail without being in armor.


"Get me the lightest real mace they have in the armory."
"A MACE? Fighting Thracian against a Samnite?"
E.E. Smith, PhD

[Yo Mama]

It would SUCK to be hit with one of those. I'd probably rather be shot if I had the choice.

[Mp7]

in the many european museums i have visited in my life
that have middle-ages armories, i have seen many Morning Stars
of small size .. and a fair number of Skulls that had been hit.

Most were not cast, but had 4-8 long iron spikes that were bundled with wire and leather. The Skulls have equally shaped holes in them.

A very common weapon for city-soldiers in Leather and chain mail,
one the pike or halberd had to be discarded.

one, two and three stars were common.

http://www.knightsedge.com/medieval-weapons/medieval-flail-2605.jpg

[wheelgunslinger]

maybe this is the beginning of something big for you, Big Green.
Maybe you'll now become the Joerg Sprave of morningstars.

Make a black tactical one... :)

[B1gGr33n]

Well... I have fancied making modern 'Tactical' versions of historical weapons before. Problem is, how does one define what a tactical historical weapon should look/function like without altering it's historical value to the point of being "Tacti-cool"?

Maybe I'll have to do some 3D CAD models and submit them here for review?

[CWL]

That flail is probably cast from zinc as are most of the "wall hanger" weapons sold in mall knife shops.

Historically, flails and morning stars tended to be commoner weapons and adapted from agricultural implements while real maces were reserved for nobility and professional soldiers. They pretty-much died out in usage with the rise of firearms and professional armies in the 1400s.

Pikes and halberds rose to prominence during the end of the Medieval period with the Swiss and Germans and lasted well into the 1700's as a primary weapon.

[daorhgih]

Where might one buy useful caltrops. The consumer-affordable kind that don't have air-releasing holes in them. Need several hundred, about a 2-inch size for a science demonstration. Thanx. Dao.

[B1gGr33n]

daorhgih: I'd appreciate keeping this thread on topic. There's a place elsewhere on THR for WTB. Thanks.

[M-Cameron]

Well... I have fancied making modern 'Tactical' versions of historical weapons before. Problem is, how does one define what a tactical historical weapon should look/function like without altering it's historical value to the point of being "Tacti-cool"?

Maybe I'll have to do some 3D CAD models and submit them here for review?

thats simple.....simply design it to do what you need it to do....and be done with it.

the moment you start slapping on 17 weaver rails, 3 flashlights, and a tactical whistle onto the flail......then youve become "tacti-cool".

that being said.....im not sure in what modern situation you would need a tactical flail.......but if you can think of one, i would love to see some 3D models of it.

[B1gGr33n]

CWL: You may be right. It does seem a bit heavy to be aluminum. I can almost certainly say it's not magnesium. I'll try a vinegar test on a piece of it tonight.

[zhyla]

I had one of these once, got it for a similar $10 I think. Cast aluminum or zinc or whatever. I knew it couldn't take abuse, but figured I could wack a watermelon with it. The balls hit each other and shattered.

Oh well, they do look cool.

[Cosmoline]

I suppose the tacti-cool modern version would have a very solid ball on the end of a baton, with the chain inside the baton. Push a button while swinging and the ball would be released, taking the chain with it.

It wouldn't have to be a very big ball, or a spiked one.

[GCBurner]

For a modern version, heavy steel cable might work better than chain.

[Joe Demko]

I suppose the tacti-cool modern version would have a very solid ball on the end of a baton, with the chain inside the baton. Push a button while swinging and the ball would be released, taking the chain with it.

It wouldn't have to be a very big ball, or a spiked one.

Nor a very long cable/chain. I'm picturing well under a foot.

I have vague memories of seeing pictures of a WWII British gadget that had a metal ball on a short length of retractable cable and also an icepick blade that telescoped into the handle. It was one of the many often goofy weapons they devised for commandos and OSS types. I don't recall the brief article mentioning whether the thing was ever produced in significant numbers or actually used in combat.

[Owen Sparks]

The problem with most of these reproduction weapons is that they are not intended for any use except hanging on the wall and are often made of aluminum or pot metal. Cold Steel is one company that takes quality seriously and makes modernized versions of all sorts of ancient weapons that are not only functional, but far better than the originals. I don't think they have ever offrerd a flail though, but it would not hurt to contact their "Special Projects" division and request one. They have made just about everything else over the years.

[mgregg85]

I've always thought the flange type mace would be much more safer to wield than those flail type maces.
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m342/hewhosmitesall/Heavy-Flanged-Mace.jpg
This one looks pretty nasty and I'm betting it would be much more effective, the swing recovery time alone would make it easy to beat down someone with one of those goofy flails. And it gives you the option of a thrusting stroke.

[BRad704]

the Aztecs used a star-mace that (from what I saw on the History channel) was an extremely effective weapon...

[CWL]

Sorry to get all "technical" but a flail and a mace are two different types of weapons. They evolved from different applications, the flail from agricultural use by peasants and the mace always as a military weapon for the professional soldier.

[glistam]

Sorry to get all "technical" but a flail and a mace are two different types of weapons. They evolved from different applications, the flail from agricultural use by peasants and the mace always as a military weapon for the professional soldier.

Good point. Additionally, I was also under the impression that these "martial" flails with the spiked balls on chains never existed, but rather are fanciful concoctions of 19th century romanticism around knights. So deep was this deception that people actually made fake ones and sold them to museums under the pretext they "discovered" them, along with wounded skulls they made themselves using medical cadaver. Some of these and other fakes are still in museums to this day being passed off as authentic.

Sure, some peasants took their farming flails and put them to use in battle, even stuck nails in the head to make it hurt more. But nothing like this.

[wannasupra]

i think a small collection of "modern", or "reimagined" medieval weapons would be cool.