.38 s&w ?


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confederatemule
July 12, 2011, 08:17 PM
I bought a Lee Loader through e-bay. I bought it to load .38 S&W cartridges. The kit came in the red, see through, plastic container. The box says nowhere that it is for loading a .38 S&W. The instructions nor load sheet did not come with the kit. On the lid someone hand wrote, with a black permanent marker, .38 S&W with a large question mark through the middle.
My question is; "How can I know for sure that it is for loading a .38 S&W?"

Thanks for any help.

Mule

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PlusP
July 12, 2011, 08:33 PM
the dies have info stamped on them what does it say ??? if unclear call Lee ....

Walkalong
July 12, 2011, 08:34 PM
I have a Lee die set for .38 S&W (Not Special) that I bought years ago.

My sizer is marked LEE 38 Auto B1

My expander is marked LEE - 38 S&W - A1

My seater is marked LEE - 38 S&W - JO

Hope this helps. AC

confederatemule
July 12, 2011, 09:42 PM
I don't have a set of dies.
I have the Lee Loader. it does not use a press, only a non metallic hammer.
The only thing written, any where, is, "Lee Loader p". This is stamped on the sizing die.

Mule

PlusP
July 12, 2011, 10:03 PM
sorry ,that's going need a call to lee for them to exactly id what you have and ask for a of a set of instructions.....

confederatemule
July 12, 2011, 10:37 PM
Thanks, Y'all.
PLUSP, I'll call them tomorrow.

ArchAngelCD
July 13, 2011, 01:07 AM
According to the Lee Loader Page (http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Lee-Loader-Pistol/) they don't currently produce a loader in .38 S&W. I don't know if they did in the past but they don't now.

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 06:36 AM
I'll know after while. Around 11:00am I'll be calling Lee Precision.
I'll post my results here, just in case anyone might be curious.

Mule

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 10:34 AM
I talked to Lee Precision.
They did make a Lee Loader kit for the .38 S&W. The Lee part number was 90256. Any caliber specifications were on the instruction sheet and load data sheet. The tech man said that, as I described the parts, all the necessary parts were in the box, with the exception of the dipper. He said that Lee could not help me out on a copy of the instructions nor data sheet.

As we all know this kit is obsolete and has been discontinued for a long time. I did ask when it was discontinued, but there were no record saying when.

The number used for the Lee Loader .38 S&W is now used for a .40 caliber bullet mold.

So...I am looking for, in the market for, instructions and load data for Lee Loader .38 S&W, or, maybe, complete Lee Loader .38 S&W kit.

Jim Watson
July 13, 2011, 10:37 AM
!. Instructions for one revolver caliber Lee Loader will be the same as the next. You don't HAVE to have the sheet specifically for .38 S&W.

2. The Lee manual gives "load data" with dipper numbers.

Overkilll0084
July 13, 2011, 10:50 AM
Just my humble opinion, but I would hunt down a used single stage press and buy a standard set of .38 S&W dies. A Lee Hand Press my be worth a look if you aren't planning on setting up a bench. I'm assuming you currently don't have a typical reloading setup at this time. Lee also still sells the dippers in sets for about $10 to $13 depending on sourcing.
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Breech-Lock-Hand-Press.html
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Powder-Measure-Kit.html

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 11:55 AM
!. Instructions for one revolver caliber Lee Loader will be the same as the next. You don't HAVE to have the sheet specifically for .38 S&W.

2. The Lee manual gives "load data" with dipper numbers.
My kit came with a set of instructions that were copied from another "worn" set of instructions. It does not have any information other than "how to", no load data.
I have a Modern Reloading Second Edition book, by Richard Lee. So, I guess I am set on the load data.
I just need to figure out if it is "actually" for a .38 S&W cartridge.

Mule

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 12:12 PM
Just my humble opinion, but I would hunt down a used single stage press and buy a standard set of .38 S&W dies. A Lee Hand Press my be worth a look if you aren't planning on setting up a bench. I'm assuming you currently don't have a typical reloading setup at this time. Lee also still sells the dippers in sets for about $10 to $13 depending on sourcing.
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Breech-Lock-Hand-Press.html
http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Powder-Measure-Kit.html
I have a set of Lee Reloading Dies .38 S&W .38 Colt New Police #90569. I have no kind of press.

Actually all I have towards reloading any thing is:
1] Modern Reloading Second Edition Book, by Richard Lee
2] Lee Loader .38 S&W ?
3] Lee Reloading Dies .38 S&W .38 Colt New Police #90569
4] Lee Safety Powder Scale #90681
I also have part of an old MEC 600jr.

I'd say I ain't in the reloading business. My desire is to have a Lee Loader for each caliber and gauge that I have, as well as a set of Lee Reloading Dies and some sort of press system. I will probably start with a Lee Hand Press.

I've spent over a year here on the internet searching and reading/watching about reloading. I don' remember as much as I used to , but I know more than I did.

Thanks for the links.

Mule

FROGO207
July 13, 2011, 05:29 PM
I have great luck on the local swap and sell forum. Also the Buy and Sell sub forum here is a great resource. You should be able to get an inexpensive press for your needs that is used with a little patients. If you want to make it portable mount your press on a 2X6 and clamp it to a table, this will work better than a handheld press. The Lee Loaders did not come in a lot of sizes then or now. Also they only neck size the brass and this does not work well for autoloaders. I have several and all the instructions are the same for the pistol ones that I have both old and new. If you want a readable copy PM me and I will get you one but I do not have the exact one for the 38 S&W loader. I have some loading data for that round but not for use with the lee dippers. You can make your own custom dipper by using an old brass casing, use say a 9MM or 45 ACP. Add a wire handle around the extractor groove. Make it similar to a aquarium fish net handle but smaller, then weigh a charge out that you previously worked up and want to duplicate. Put it in the dipper and see what space is left. Dump powder back onto scale, mix and add 5 min epoxy into the brass to about the level you think will give you space left for a full dipper with that charge. If it turns out that it is over filled just use a drill that is a little smaller than the inside of the brass and remove some of the epoxy till the dipped amount is correct. Label the handle as to the grains/bullet/powder and load some up. I make a lot of my stuff and it works just as well as that store stuff but I have more $$ to spend on components that way.

W.E.G.
July 13, 2011, 06:47 PM
9 cents apiece.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72&products_id=204&zenid=do5njpfjgkafcfia0tn54qjvo0

http://www.mattsbullets.com/images/Img_7267.jpg

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 07:36 PM
W. E. G., thanks for the link. Do you know where I can get brass cases for the .38 S&W?

Mule

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 07:37 PM
FROGO207, you have email.

Overkilll0084
July 13, 2011, 07:46 PM
Do you know where I can get brass cases for the .38 S&W?
Starline sells it. If you don't need units of 500, Midway USA sells it in 100 case packages: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=941735915

Here's another bullet option: http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=132&category=5&secondary=29&keywords=
Price is right too.

confederatemule
July 13, 2011, 09:07 PM
Thanks, Overkill0084. At least I know that I can get the components. I may have to buy a press for the Lee Dies, but I can make cartridges.
Judging from what I have read, today, The .38 special case has a smaller diameter than the .38 S&W. If that is the case, then a .38 Special cartridge should go into the Lee Loader sizing die, easily. I have a .38 Special cartridge and it will not go into the sizing die.

Reckon it could be a .32 S&W? Or at least a .32?

Hmmm.

Mule

Walkalong
July 13, 2011, 09:30 PM
A .38 Spl case will not easily go into a .38 S&W sizer, it just won't get sized as much as needed for .357 bullets.

ArchAngelCD
July 14, 2011, 01:55 AM
I have a set of Lee Reloading Dies .38 S&W .38 Colt New Police #90569. I have no kind of press.

Actually all I have towards reloading any thing is:
1] Modern Reloading Second Edition Book, by Richard Lee
2] Lee Loader .38 S&W ?
3] Lee Reloading Dies .38 S&W .38 Colt New Police #90569
4] Lee Safety Powder Scale #90681
I also have part of an old MEC 600jr.
confederatemule,
I hate to tell you this but for right around the same cost of the Lee Reloader you could have bought a very basic Lee press. This Lee Press (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=807734) is only $28.99 and while not fancy will load ammo much easier than a Lee Loader. (and you already have the 38 S&W dies) For less than $2 more you can get the press and the Lee Manual (Look Here) (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=480380) but I see you already have that manual.

Clark
July 14, 2011, 11:18 AM
I have a number of Iver Johnson break top 38 S&W revolvers that need special soft bullets and low recoil loads to keep down the stress on thin steel in the latch.

I have a number of the Colt 38 S&W revolvers, and they do not need to be babied at all.
While SAAMI registration of 38 S&W at 14,500 psi, I am running at 32 k psi.
I have inspected the design and "she's got it where it counts, kid."

confederatemule
July 14, 2011, 12:46 PM
ArchangelCD, I do realize that I could buy a Lee 4 hole Classic Turret press for around $85.00, and will, eventualy. I just would like to start at, or close to, the beginning. The simpler way.
This week I have bought a Lee Deluxe Loader for 12ga 2 3/4" & one for 12ga 3". I also bought a Lee Loader [not deluxe] for 20ga 2 3/4" & one for 20ga 3".
For what I spent on the shot shell loaders I could of rigged out a 4 hole turret and had money left over.
Now I am broke for the rest of the month.

Mule

confederatemule
July 14, 2011, 12:49 PM
Clark, I want the .38 S&W Cartridges for I. J. and H&R. top break revolvers. I also need .32 S&W Cartridges.
I have these guns in black powder and smokeless variations.

ArchAngelCD
July 15, 2011, 08:02 PM
confederatemule,
I wasn't trying to tell you to spend more money, I was trying to save you money while adding flexibility.

Clark
July 15, 2011, 09:25 PM
Clark, I want the .38 S&W Cartridges for I. J. and H&R. top break revolvers. I also need .32 S&W Cartridges.
I have these guns in black powder and smokeless variations.

My grandfather had a 38 S&W Iver Johnson break top in the Alaskan Gold Rush over 100 years ago.

So I bought a lot of them at gun shows for $35 each 10 years ago.
Now you would lucky to get a good working one for $70.

I have shot 38 Super +P loads in them, and the latch stretches.
I said something about pressure, and my gun designer, chief engineer father yelled at me, "It is the recoil acceleration on the barrel mass above the break top pivot and bullet friction in the bore that stretched that latch..."
That took me overnight to get my mind around that.

The latch has a pin, that is some weird screw size like 5-56. The ones in the 32 S&W are even smaller.
That pin does not fail it is the very thin flat piece of metal with a hole in it that the pin goes through. That hole will elongate to be egg shaped, and the latch will be loose.

The way around that is soft lead bullets and low recoil loads, like the original black powder loads were. 1 gr of Bullseye or 2 gr of Unique will keep the recoil down.

Lyman #35864
150 gr.
Lyman #35864, .358" diameter, 150 gr. RN, 100 bullets per box. Bullets are lubed and sized.

Correct bullet for .38 S&W.
$9.50

http://westernbullet.com/3535738caliber.html

confederatemule
July 16, 2011, 06:57 AM
confederatemule,
I wasn't trying to tell you to spend more money, I was trying to save you money while adding flexibility.
Yes Sir, I know you were trying to direct me in the most practical direction. I never thought, for one second, that you were doing anything other than trying to help me get off to the best start, and I thank you for your interest.

I have this disease that makes me love the older stuff. I watched a video, the other day, about loading the old way and one about loading with home made tools. I plan to try it, if I can find the videos again, I didn't save them.

Thanks, for your input.

Mule

confederatemule
July 16, 2011, 07:02 AM
My grandfather had a 38 S&W Iver Johnson break top in the Alaskan Gold Rush over 100 years ago.

So I bought a lot of them at gun shows for $35 each 10 years ago.
Now you would lucky to get a good working one for $70.

I have shot 38 Super +P loads in them, and the latch stretches.
I said something about pressure, and my gun designer, chief engineer father yelled at me, "It is the recoil acceleration on the barrel mass above the break top pivot and bullet friction in the bore that stretched that latch..."
That took me overnight to get my mind around that.

The latch has a pin, that is some weird screw size like 5-56. The ones in the 32 S&W are even smaller.
That pin does not fail it is the very thin flat piece of metal with a hole in it that the pin goes through. That hole will elongate to be egg shaped, and the latch will be loose.

The way around that is soft lead bullets and low recoil loads, like the original black powder loads were. 1 gr of Bullseye or 2 gr of Unique will keep the recoil down.



http://westernbullet.com/3535738caliber.html
Clark, thanks for the link and the Quote about the correct load.

confederatemule
July 16, 2011, 09:27 AM
I hope I don't sound pushy or dumb, and I am grateful for all of the useful information I get from all you folks, when I post a question or when I read other threads, but, back to my original question;

"How can I know for sure that it is for loading a .38 S&W?"

Mule

Kristensdaddy
July 16, 2011, 09:51 AM
Get a .38 S&W casing and run it through the sizer. Get a set of calipers and measure the results and compare to the standards for s .38 S&W case. IF the come out right, you have a .38S&W sizer. Move to the next step of flaring, and crimping, measuring each step. Dont bother with powder or primers, just make some dummy rounds.

If it is not a .38S&W and you screw up the set, you don't have that much invested in the test.

confederatemule
July 16, 2011, 10:28 AM
Sounds like a plan, to me. Thanks. I didn't think of doing that. Course I'll have to get a fired brass to use.

Mule

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