Does Double Tap 45LC and .454 have penetration Issues?


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Evergreen
July 14, 2011, 06:40 AM
Hi, I recently posted a while back about using Double Tap ammo in my S&W 460v revolver. I am very happy with the price of the ammo and I have heard many people vouch through their own personal testing of the velocities to be close enough to the box ratings. However, somebody on THR made another post a while back stating that Double Tap .45LCs should not be used for black bear protection, as the rounds have been known to have penetration issues.

Considering that the Double Tap 45LC is only like .75 a round, which is very cheap for such hot and heavy loads for this caliber, I am feeling very disappointed about this news. I am wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this round from Double Tap and can confirm what the other poster said about the penetration issues? I know the stuff is quite cheap, but I have read from others that it is good quality ammo. However, I do not want to be using a round that I cannot depend on. I know I can pay about twice or more for Corbon Hunter or Buffalo Bore ammo, but I was hoping to economize.

Anyway, I'd also be interested in hearing people's opinions about good defensive loads for black band brown bear protection. Basically, I would be carrying my S&W 460v when I am hiking in the backwoods. I live in Oregon, so I only have to worry about Black Bears and Cougars. However, I am planning on hiking in Idaho and possibly WYoming later this summer and would like to have a gun that can offer grizzly protection in the National Parks, where I am not allowed to carry long guns. This, of course, will be in addition to pepper spray.

I've shot a lot of the Double Tap ammo, but seeing how inexperienced I am, I have very little means to test the penetration and velocities of the rounds. The rounds do have quite a bit of kick, even the 45LC. However, I know the entire physics behind the impact and penetration of the round go beyond sheer felt recoil.

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amd6547
July 14, 2011, 09:14 AM
I don't know how it could have penetration issues...when you have a heavy, hardcast slug at higher velocity.
When I had a ruger Blackhawk 45 colt, I tried three different double tap loads in it. They all shot great. While I never did penetration tests with it, I did carry the hard cast 330gn load when I stayed in a cabin in black bear country...I felt it would have been fine for bears, and for yahoo pick up trucks.

hardluk1
July 14, 2011, 10:12 AM
evergreen use a hardcast bullet for thangs that eat or hurt you and softer lead, sp or hp for other game. caliber has very little to do with it in a handgun. BUT if around bear country BUY some bear spray too.

Lucky Derby
July 14, 2011, 10:52 AM
I haven't heard that, but really the only way you are going to know for sure is to test it yourself in some ballistic gel.

EnsignJimmy
July 14, 2011, 10:53 AM
Which Double Tap load are you talking about? They appear to have a number of them, and a full three of them are hardcast lead. If anything, the sort of penetration 'problem' I'd expect out of a 335 - 360 grain hardcast slug exceeding 1200 ft/sec is that it's got a good chance of zipping right through the average black bear and continuing off into the sunset . . .

Evergreen
July 14, 2011, 06:09 PM
Sorry, for being vague, but I am referring to the 360gr hard card 45LC +P round.. Here is a link to the round I am referring to:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_38&products_id=434

Rated Velocity is 1200fps out of a 7" barrel

I don't remember the person, but he posted an article stating that this round had issues with penetration or maybe that it had fragmentation issues. I wish I could find that post, but it was somewhere in another High Road post on the Revolver forum. Anyhow, after reading that I felt nervous about using the Double Tap. It's a real shame , because at 360gr and 1200fps , this should be a very powerful load and for only like 0.75 a round it is a super bargain.

Also, I am assuming if the 45LC has issues, maybe so does their 454 rounds.

I'd be happy to hear of people who have had positive experiences with this ammo, either who used it for hunting, defense or done their own ballistic testing. As of now, I just don't have the means. And, I am not confident that I would perform the tests properly.

BTW.. I would only use Hardcast rounds for bear defense, so I am not talking about other types of ammunition that Double Tap sells.

Vern Humphrey
July 14, 2011, 06:17 PM
I would have no problems with a cast solid bullet. I recently tested some cast hollowpoint bullets in .45 Colt and found that at low (standard) velocities they did well -- they expanded and penetrated nicely.

At high velocities (a couple of 100 fps more) the noses blew off, the bases tumbled, and penetration was limited.

Oddly enough, I had both soft and hard cast bullets and got nearly the same results from both.

CraigC
July 14, 2011, 06:32 PM
That load should penetrate like a freight train. Fragmentation should be a non-issue at 1200fps. Where you typically run into this problem is at rifle velocities. Where is the post in question? At 75 cents a round, you might ought to consider handloading.

Evergreen
July 15, 2011, 12:15 AM
I cannot find the post anymore, I looked and looked. However, all I know is the guy who trashed the Double Tap ammo has haunted me. He claimed that the round has the penetration problems. It's something about the bullet's construction or something, where it fragments or tumbles. Sorry, I am too ignorant to use the correct terminology for the problem he mentioned. All I know is that it had serious issues with penetration thick hide or fur, as this person reported. Of course, I am skeptical of this person's claims that's why I am interested to hear if anyone has done any of their own personal tests with the Double Tap ammo I have listed. The ballistic specs look all good to me, so I just cannot possibly fathom how the person's claim can be correct. Nonetheless, I like to do research, especially when I use something for self-defense.

I would love to reload, but don't have time.. Anyhow 0.75/rd is pretty cheap for this type of ammo, as Corbon Hunter and Buffalo Bore rounds of the same specs are like $1.50 a round. If I was to get a 44 mag hardcast round with this bullet weight and velocity ratings, I would be paying like $2.00 or more a round for Corbon Hunter or Buffalo Bore. I am assuming Double Tap doesn't use any inferior components to Corbon or Buffalo Bore, although maybe they do. Hence, the reason for me posting this thread. Sadly, my S&W 629 cannot even handle continual practice with hot and heavy 44mag loads, whereas my X-frame can. I hate the fact I cannot practice with the round I would use for defense.

Scipio Africanus
July 15, 2011, 12:56 AM
A 360 gr .45LC bullet @ 1200 fps should give complete broadside penetration on any game in North America. This should be a VERY effective wilderness SD round.

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