FYI: Italian firearm manufacturers support ban on assault weapon


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goerz
July 15, 2011, 03:02 AM
Sorry if this topic is not relevant to the US gun rights debate, but I thought that American gun owners, which constitute the most important market for Italian gun manufacturers, should be informed about this.
Iím an Italian gun owner and enthusiast and Iím a member and activist of our gun rights association, called FISAT. We have a Commission in Italy that decides which guns are legal and which are not. In theory it should be an easy job: full-auto guns are banned, all the others are permitted. The Commission, however, is mainly composed by antiguns from the government, who constantly try to stretch the Commission powers in order to restrict gun rights. Manufacturers too have their representatives. Recently, this Commission decided to introduce a regulation that will stop new imports of black rifles to Italy, basically because they look evil. Itís not a ban, at least not formally (rifles already imported are still legal), but this regulation introduces so many restrictions that no importer will be able to meet all criteria needed to import a black rifle in the Italian market.

This could sound to you like your ordinary assault weapon ban story, but the disturbing part is that the representatives of the Italian manufacturers voted IN FAVOR of this proposition.

Considering that Italian manufacturers donít make or import black rifles, they probably believed they could take some economic advantage from a black rifle ban, with the added benefit at the same time of brownnosing the powerful antigun bureaucrats sitting in the Commission.
This is a betrayal: the manufacturers are selling Italian gun ownersí rights to the government antiguns, in exchange of a potential increase in their market share, and maybe of more government orders in the future. Many gun owners are disgusted by this and wrote protest letters to the manufacturers, who replied indignantly that they would never approve of any restriction of gun rights, and so on.
Too bad we have the original document of the Commission that shows the contrary! It is posted here: http://tinyurl.com/5v9funo (.pdf document, in Italian).

In conclusion, when you buy an Italian firearm in the US, please consider that the manufacturer of that gun is an accomplice in trampling gun rights in its home country.
Best regards,
goerz

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jrdale84
August 16, 2011, 11:31 PM
Well the good news is the trend these days is for Olive Drab or Sand colored rifles ... ;p

Seriously though it's nice to know not just American gun owners are getting **** on by their Governments. Thanks for the heads up.

Rail Driver
August 16, 2011, 11:50 PM
After reading this post and doing a little research of my own I've concluded that I won't be buying any Italian firearms new or factory refurbished until their stance changes. If I don't support firearms rights in other parts of the world how can I support them here without being a hypocrite?

I won't pass on a good deal for a used firearm, but I will certainly let my wallet speak by not ordering the Beretta I had planned on.

Nushif
August 17, 2011, 12:28 AM
Is there any news as to whether Beretta, specifically, is supporting this? I would be heartbroken, no doubt.

ants
August 17, 2011, 02:29 AM
The truth and fact of this story is currently controversial in Europe. Most parties following the story closely don't know what to think yet. Clubs and ranges in the U.S. that originally denounced the Italian gun makers have backed off their stances. It seems there is more confusion than fact out there right now. We gotta get more truly verifiable information before making conclusions.

For example, here is the text of a letter from Pierangelo Pedersoli, one of the gun makers involved, denying rumors. One should not necessarily take this letter as fact, nor fabrication. It simply shows us that there is no clarity on the matter yet.

------------------------

Re: Italian gun makers support restrictions on Black rifles
ę Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 08:25:47 Ľ by PHOENIX
The following is the reply of my friend Dot. Pierangelo Pedersoli who is the Chairman of the Consorzio Armaioli Italiani:

“Dear Stephen,

I appreciate your concern with regard to the false allegations that are being made against me and the Consorzio (http://www.armaiolibresciani.org). I wish to state that:


1 It is not true that the Italian authorities want to ban the sale of black guns in Italy – the truth is that the Minister of the Interior wishes to establish rules concerning parts so that these will not be interchangeable with military parts.

2 It is not true that Italian manufacturers are trying ban the importation of black guns to protect the Italian manufacture of other firearms – if in doubt please visit the websites of Italian importers and see if you can find a single reference to this absurd claim.

3 The Consorzio has been working for years to protect the right of enthusiasts to buy and use guns irrespective of type. It will continue to do so.

4 There was never any call by the Consorzio to vote on a ban on the importation of black guns into Italy. If that were to happen I would vote against.

5 The people that are spreading malicious rumours have also accused other Commission members of voting for a ban. However they did not even bother to verify whether these Commission members were present or not at that Commission meeting! The same applies to me – I only attended the first session.

6 The proposed limitations such as the limitation to a 5-round capacity magazine applies to all manufacturers. Clearly there is nothing to be gained by manufacturers from an insistence on this limit.

I have no idea why someone would instigate such a rumour and spread it. Sadly many persons outside Italy are repeating what they heard like parrots and even adding their own flavour to it. Instead they should simply read the Minutes of Consorzio and verify what I have stated above. The Minutes are available on the Consorzio's website.

I serve as an officer in the Italian Army and I am still associated with UNUCI (Unione Nazionale Ufficiali in congedo d'Italia) – I certainly have nothing against military guns and their look-alikes!

Pierangelo Pedersoli”

Shadow 7D
August 17, 2011, 03:02 AM
Of course
less imports means a 'robust' domestic market, look at CIA and all the 'kit' makers.

Carl N. Brown
August 17, 2011, 09:54 PM
The US gun manufacturers tried to block importation of military surplus in the 1950s and supported what became the 1968 Gun Control Act which, among other things, banned importation of "non sporting" firearms until the import restriction was raised in 1986.

Italian gun manufacturers are just doing what US gun manufacturers did: protect themselves from imported competition, and curry favor with politicians.

shotgunjoel
August 18, 2011, 11:38 AM
The US gun manufacturers tried to block importation of military surplus in the 1950s and supported what became the 1968 Gun Control Act which, among other things, banned importation of "non sporting" firearms until the import restriction was raised in 1986.
Yeah, and the 1994 ban on Chinese firearms.

Nushif
August 18, 2011, 03:38 PM
I siked the wife on this document, with her epic Italian.

In general this is a lot of fluffy language about what type of weaponry they're going to use for their cops and military and how they're going to keep civilian and military weapons different. (Manufacturing wise ... they talk about military and civilian model lines, specifically about a hammer style...?)
They point to some 2002 UN "disarmament" notion but seem to disregard it on the basis that well ... disarmament for armies sucks and would "make the Italian army inferior to the UN army."
Other than that, they're really just showing the varying opinions of different factions ... with a plea to the leader to deal with it.

Now granted, she isn't some sort of pro, but she didn't see some "THOU SHALT BAN WEAPONS, SAYS BERETTA" in there. As a matter of fact it never mentions any manufacturer, but rather "the arms community" and some bank in the same town.

[edit]
So if that is the source document ...

In conclusion, when you buy an Italian firearm in the US, please consider that the manufacturer of that gun is an accomplice in trampling gun rights in its home country.

This ... is entirely untrue. I love primary sources that aren't supposition flavored with national pride.
Again, she's not a pro, but that document is most definitely not a plea to ban import weapons.

mrecanatini
August 19, 2011, 12:21 PM
Is there any news as to whether Beretta, specifically, is supporting this? I would be heartbroken, no doubt.
IMPORTANT MESSAGE
Beretta U.S.A. has confirmed that no representative of the Beretta company in Italy was present at this meeting. No Beretta vote in favor of this import ban was made.

Matteo Recanatini
Social Media Manager
Beretta USA Corp.

Nushif
August 19, 2011, 12:33 PM
Yay!

oneounceload
August 19, 2011, 12:46 PM
In conclusion, when you buy an Italian firearm in the US, please consider that the manufacturer of that gun is an accomplice in trampling gun rights in its home country.
Best regards,

Yet another untrue errornet rumor...........geez.....

Strykervet
August 19, 2011, 02:50 PM
Got some Bill Rugers in Italy do 'ya?

When you have traitors, the easiest thing to do is starve them out.

Maple_City_Woodsman
August 19, 2011, 09:03 PM
You people are bonkers.

Apparently most of you have totally missed what happened in the OP's story: Domestic manufacturers voted to restrict the import of foreign models, not the sale, use, or possession of them.

This would be like allowing S&W to decide if Beretta, Glock, or Sig could import pistols to compete with them. (pretend its still the 1980's and they don't have their own US plants yet)

No offense OP, and I may be wrong on this since I'm not from Italy, But i would almost bet money that this is about selling more domestic guns rather than restricting 'evil' looking black rifles. Don't Beretta and Benelli both have rifles that compete with the AR15? Now they have a captive market for them during a time of financial trouble; a sure way to boost business for domestic companies. That makes far more sense than the Italian gun manufacturers (whose primary business is selling civilian sporting arms) being against the civilian use of certain weaponry.

Additionally, if the FISAT is anything like the NRA, then you should take what they say with a grain of salt, and read between the lines. I sincerely doubt the sky is falling. There is a reasonable and FAR more rational explanation.

ants
August 20, 2011, 03:45 AM
Now there you all go.

Trying to spoil the fine upstanding internet myth community with your truth and honesty.

Can't you just let these amateur internet supreme court justices have at least one victory?
It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong. Just give them one chance to pound somebody.
Anybody.

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