What can I bring to California?


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NoobCannon
July 16, 2011, 01:09 AM
So, things are getting serious with me and my girlfriend/fiancee, but the problem is, She lives in California, and I'm a Born and Bred Texan. As things progress, I'm going to need to cull my collection to ease her worries, as well as to keep myself from stirring trouble with their asinine gun control laws.

My current handguns are both Tauruses, a PT840 and a PT111 Mil-Pro. Both have "high capacity magazines" according to California law, but it's considered the norm here. But, seriously...15 rounds of .40 isn't that much, nor is 12 rounds of 9mm. Either way, I'm going to need to get some 10-rounders.

But, of those two handguns, what am I going to have to do to get one or the other into the state with no problems? I saw the thing about what handguns you can BUY there, but I don't want to buy a new gun unless I absolutely have to.

This is annoying to me....I'm sure it was annoying to anyone who had to move to California, but what can I say? The heart wants what it wants.

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MidwestRookie
July 16, 2011, 01:53 AM
neither of those are on the CA approved gun list..so neither are legal to own there, I believe..

http://i55.tinypic.com/34y5fnr.png

NoobCannon
July 16, 2011, 01:58 AM
That's from the legal to buy page, I believe. I've scoured that time and time again, but as I mentioned, I'm not planning on buying a handgun there any time soon. I don't really know their laws though....it just makes me want to pull my hair out.

And on second thought, this probably should've been posted in the Legal section, so apologies on that.

MidwestRookie
July 16, 2011, 02:04 AM
read the FAQs then, I guess...

this is #25..

I am moving into California and I own several handguns. What are the new-resident registration requirements?

You are considered to be a personal handgun importer as defined by California law. You may bring all of your otherwise California-legal firearms with you, but you must report all of your handguns to the DOJ within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. [PDF 518 kb / 2 pg] You are not required to report rifles or shotguns. You may not bring ammunition feeding devices with a capacity greater than ten rounds, machineguns, or assault weapons into California.

(PC sections 12001(n), 12072(f)(2))

sounds like you can bring them if they're cali legal and those 2 aren't...

9mmepiphany
July 16, 2011, 02:15 AM
You may just not be understanding what is written.

You may bring either handgun you have even if they are not on the approved list...you will have to fill out a form and pay a fee ($19) when you bring them in.

That list that you are both referring to only limits which guns can be bought from out of state by residents already inside the state.

The list has no bearing on which handgun you may legally own or purchase inside the state. If a non-approved gun is legally brought into the state, it may be legally sold to anyone inside the state through a person to person (face to face) sale

NoobCannon
July 16, 2011, 02:21 AM
I e-mailed their Bureau of Firearms in hopes to clarify, so let's keep our fingers crossed.

Thanks for the clarification, 9mmepiphany. I'm leaning more towards keeping the 111 and giving the 840 to my brother, since it's smaller, lighter, and the more I shoot it, the more I like it.

I also found this:

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaApprovalInformation

Which gave it to me in terms even a caveman could understand, where it says,

"The California Bureau of Firearms maintains a list of handguns certified for sale within the state. This impacts only the sale of new or used firearms from licensed dealers, not the sale of used firearms in private party transfers. The list is viewable online at http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/."

Which reflects, more or less, what 9mmepiphany said.


So, as far as I can tell....I'll just need to replace my 12-round magazines with 10-rounders, Pay a fee, and she gets to come to California with me.....I hope.

I'm still going to wait for a reply from them with something a little more concrete. I'd feel less scared-poopless if I had word from an official governing body.

b.thomas
July 16, 2011, 02:33 AM
Register with this web site and you will get all the help you will need.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

Got_Lead?
July 16, 2011, 03:11 AM
Someday you'll be stuck with alamony and child support, or worse, still married, and wish to hell you had all your guns back. Stay in Texas.

haha

Best wishes bra.

xr1200
July 16, 2011, 03:19 AM
Basically what I found out about from shipping guns to california , is that any gun coming into the state has to have permission from the california DOJ, or even if you drive thru and enter the state with it.

Also if you now carry concealed in texas, you can pretty much forget about it in california, most big countys in the state almost never issue any new carry permits for populated areas. If you live in some remote areas they may issue a ccw permit. Check out the legal section, you can find out a lot about california carry and pistol rules.

In california you can own most conventional hunting and small capacity pistols and rifles. But it is very hard to shoot them outside the gun range or for hunting.

In california you can't even carry pepper spray legally.

9mmepiphany
July 16, 2011, 04:06 AM
Basically what I found out about from shipping guns to california , is that any gun coming into the state has to have permission from the california DOJ, or even if you drive thru and enter the state with it.

Also if you now carry concealed in texas, you can pretty much forget about it in california, most big countys in the state almost never issue any new carry permits for populated areas. If you live in some remote areas they may issue a ccw permit. Check out the legal section, you can find out a lot about california carry and pistol rules.

In california you can own most conventional hunting and small capacity pistols and rifles. But it is very hard to shoot them outside the gun range or for hunting.

In california you can't even carry pepper spray legally.
I don't think I've ever come across a post with so much incorrect information...I'm not sure if you have listened to misinformed people, have been reading dated material or have just bought into some twisted stereotype...but it's tone borders on dis-information

Your first paragraph has already been discredited in the posts above.

While words like pretty much, most and almost can be used to qualify your statement in the second paragraph. I'll point out that Sacramento County, where the state capitol is located, is now shall issue for CCW applicants...so much so that there is a back log into next year for interviews and processing.

The third paragraph is misleading as there is a healthy market for AR and AK type rifles...granted with certain restrictions...and there are many full featured rifles in use in competitions, during training and for home defense. There is a restriction on the importation of magazines with capacities larger than 10 rounds, but there are many normal capacity magazines being used...as it is not illegal to own them. While I belong to a shooting club and prefer to shoot at their ranges, there are many folks who just go out to BLM land to shoot to their hearts content.

Your fourth paragraph really has me stumped. While folks are required to have a certificate to carry CS gas (Mace) canisters, there is no certificate requirement to carry pepper spray...granted you can't carry the Bear Spray size/strength pepper spray

Here is a reliable source for information concerning CA gun laws Calguns Foundation Wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page)

Quiet
July 16, 2011, 04:12 AM
MidwestRookie and xr1200 have incorrect information in their posts.

9mmepiphany is correct.

You can legally bring any handgun, that is not considered a prohibited firearm (assault weapon, SBR, SBS, MG), with you to CA. [PC 12001(n)]
Within 60 days of establishing residency in CA, you will need to register all the handguns you brought with you. [PC 12072(f)(2)(A)]
This is done by sending in a New Resident Handgun Ownership Report (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf) with $19 per handgun to CA DOJ BOF. Within 2-40 weeks, CA DOJ BOF will mail you back confirmation of the report.

You can no import any large capacity (11+ round) magazines into CA. [PC 12020(a)(2)]
So, acquire 10 round magazines for use in CA.
You can also legally dissassemble any large capacity magazines you own into parts and import those parts into CA, where you can use the parts to make permanent 10 round magazines or keep them as parts & never assemble them while in CA.

Also, I strongly recommend you join the forums at calguns.net, in order to learn about CA gun laws and what you can do to make them better.



Penal Code 12001
(n) As used in this chapter, a "personal handgun importer" means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(1) He or she is not a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(2) He or she is not a licensed manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(3) He or she is not a licensed importer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) He or she is the owner of a handgun.
(5) He or she acquired that handgun outside of California.
(6) He or she moves into this state on or after January 1, 1998, as a resident of this state.
(7) He or she intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998.
(8) The handgun was not delivered to him or her by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 who delivered that firearm following the procedures set forth in Section 12071 and subdivision (c) of Section 12072.
(9) He or she, while a resident of this state, had not previously reported his or her ownership of that handgun to the Department of Justice in a manner prescribed by the department that included information concerning him or her and a description of the firearm.
(10) The handgun is not a firearm that is prohibited by subdivision (a) of Section 12020.
(11) The handgun is not an assault weapon, as defined in Section 12276 or 12276.1.
(12) The handgun is not a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(13) The person is 18 years of age or older.

Penal Code 12072
(f)(2)(A) On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:
(i) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(ii) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).
(iii) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(iv) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

Lawdawg45
July 16, 2011, 07:32 AM
"What can I bring to California? "

A U-Haul van and move her back to the free state of Texas!:D

LD45

armsmaster270
July 16, 2011, 08:17 AM
I live in Cali and own a PT145 which is not on the list now but it was at one time. Manufacturers have to pay serious bucks plus having a number of their guns trashed in the tests. then they make a modification on that model to improve it. Now they have to go through the same testing again on the improved model. The manufacturers say screw it and the gun goes off the list. Welcome to the wacky world of Cali.. Take her back to the free world with you.

Grousefeather
July 16, 2011, 08:17 AM
May as well move to Havana.

NoobCannon
July 16, 2011, 08:48 AM
to the comments about taking her back to Texas, God I wish I could, but she wants to keep in touch with her family. My family on the other hand....sometimes I swear I'm the only normal one.

Thank you for all the help on this, though. I'll be sure to join that forum and keep my California laws up to date for when I head out there. I hear they have something out there called "Winter". I've always wondered what that was. Where I'm at you get 9 months of summer and 3 months of fall.

harmon rabb
July 16, 2011, 09:42 AM
I suggest a new girlfriend :o

bds
July 16, 2011, 11:01 AM
This is THR and incorrect/false information should not be perpetuated just because one "read it on the internet". I live in California and although I disagree with some of the gun laws, it is not a totally anti-gun evil state where law abiding tax payers can't buy/own/carry firearm to protect him/herself and family/others. Many past anti-gun rights laws are being challenged in court on a continuing basis (thanks to the efforts of The Calguns Foundation (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/), CRPA (http://www.crpa.org/), NRA (http://home.nra.org/#/home), etc. with support from many in-state/online vendors) and some have been reversed, some are being reversed and new laws are being challenged; so past notions of what's not allowed in California need to be updated regularly - please check out the CGF and CRPA links for recent case rulings to stay current and donate if you can to support our gun-rights fight.


Also if you now carry concealed in texas, you can pretty much forget about it in california, most big countys in the state almost never issue any new carry permits for populated areas. If you live in some remote areas they may issue a ccw permit.
Not true. Although certain cities have tighter CCW permit issue criteria, you can also apply with the county to obtain carry permits. Check with your local city PD and county SD as to what those criterias and simply MEET the conditions for them to ISSUE carry permits to you. I live in a large metropolitan city and they will issue carry permits from city/county if you meet the criteria. Right to protect self/property is certainly not dead in California - at least last time I checked with Department of Justice.

But it is very hard to shoot them outside the gun range or for hunting.
Not true. Although there are CERTAIN areas that prohibit shooting or hunting of LEAD hunting ammo, non-lead hunting ammo are allowed. Check with Dept. of Fish and Games website for current hunting laws and prohibited areas - http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/

Most BLM and Forest Service land are open to shoot - Check/contact their websites/offices for SPECIFIC spots and specific regs for your area.

This is from BLM for California (http://www.50bmgstore.com/50/CAIM2003-049.pdf):
"Persons have the permission of the BLM to possess and use firearms, including lawfully registered assault weapons, on BLM-administered public lands except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations.

This policy is consistent with the U.S. Forest Service’s policy for Region 5."

If you are looking for ranges, California has a ton of indoor/outdoor ranges for pistol/shotgun/rifles that also host matches - http://www.wheretoshoot.org/


In california you can't even carry pepper spray legally.
Not true. Check with your local PD/SD for any applicable guidelines.


As to OP, you have many options available to you. You can have your firearms "stored" with family outside of California, do private party transfers of "used" firearms after you move to California, or buy new California legal firearms. As posted by others, I am a firm believer of preserving my rights whenever legally allowed. :D

xr1200
July 16, 2011, 06:45 PM
9mmepiphany -you say the first part of reponse is completely incorrect, well I guess your going to say that the text I pulled straight form the CDOJ a few minutes ago is incorrect to. Text listed below.

As of July 1, 2008, California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1) [PDF 30 kb / 1 pg] prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.

The verification approval number, which the Bureau of Firearms provides in a Firearms Shipment Approval letter, confirms that the intended recipient of the firearm shipment is properly licensed and listed in the state's database of persons/entities authorized to receive firearm shipments. If the intended CA FFL recipient is not listed in the state's database, the transaction will result in a Do Not Ship letter, and it is a crime for the intended recipient to receive the firearms (Penal Code Section 12083(c)(1)).

As a courtesy to impacted FFLs, the Bureau of Firearms has established an Internet application that is available to FFLs nationwide 24 hours a day 7 days a week (24/7) to obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters. All Internet transactions will be handled on a secure server, and the information provided will be used solely for the purposes associated with the administration of the CFLC program. For FFLs that do not have Internet access, the Bureau has established a telephone service that allows nationwide FFL shippers to enroll and obtain Firearms Shipment Approval letters via telephone or facsimile prior to shipping firearms to a California FFL. However, the telephone service availability will be limited to Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time.

For additional information regarding this new program, please refer to our CFLC Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs).

Enrolling in CFLC
You must have a valid FFL number to enroll in CFLC. Enrollment is a one-time process. There are several ways you can enroll. You can use the Internet, or mail/fax an enrollment application to the Bureau of Firearms.

To enroll using the CFLC Internet application, use the link in the "Not yet enrolled in CFLC?" section on the CFLC home page. After completing the CFLC enrollment process, you will be able to log in to CFLC to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval letter. Also an enrollment acknowledgement email message containing your CFLC Logon ID and Password will be sent to the email address entered on the enrollment screen.

To enroll by mail or fax, complete the California Firearms Licensee Check Enrollment Application and return it to the Bureau of Firearms. Once your application is processed, you will receive an enrollment confirmation letter that includes a telephone/fax number you can use to request Firearms Shipment Approval letters via fax or mail.

Obtaining a Firearms Shipment Verification Approval Letter
To obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval letter 24 hours a day from the CFLC Internet application, Logon to CFLC. You will need the CFLC Logon ID and Password you received during the Internet or mail/fax enrollment process. You will also need the five digit Centralized List (CL) number of the CA FFL to whom you intend to ship firearms.

You can also request a Firearms Shipment Approval letter by calling the telephone number listed on your enrollment verification letter or faxing/mailing a CFLC Firearms Shipment Approval Letter Request Form to the Bureau of Firearms. However, you must have enrolled in CFLC prior to submitting a Firearms Shipment Approval Letter Request Form.

Firearms Shipment Approval letter requests received via phone, fax, or mail will be processed Monday through Friday between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. After processing your request, the Bureau of Firearms will fax you a Firearms Shipment Approval letter containing the verification approval number.

9mmepiphany
July 16, 2011, 07:58 PM
well I guess your going to say that the text I pulled straight form the CDOJ a few minutes ago is incorrect to
No, I would not say it is incorrect. I would say it has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. The correct section is posted in Post #11 [PC 12001(n)]

What you have posted is the part of the Code that governs transfers from out of state FFLs to CA FFLs. The OP has not stated that he is a FFL...nor is he shipping to a CA FFL...he is moving to the CA and asking which rules apply to bringing his personally owned guns with him.

The section you have listed does not apply. Even if he were shipping the guns to himself, this section would not apply.

NoobCannon
July 16, 2011, 08:16 PM
Yes, Maybe I need to clarify.

1) I want to bring my own handgun with me to California.

2) I do not want relationship advice. Seriously. I don't go and tell people who are perfectly happy with their relationships to dump someone for any reason. Please don't tell me the same.

3) I do not wish to purchase a handgun in California, unless it's for her. I like what I have already just fine.

4) I am not an FFL, I am not an LEO or in the military. Just an American citizen who's seen the worst of the inner cities and would rather not be caught with my pants down.

9mmepiphany, thanks for clearing things up for me. You've been more than helpful with your insight. It will make the transition from the big TX to Cali so much easier now that I know what to do.

9mmepiphany
July 16, 2011, 08:56 PM
Welcome to CA, you'll find a lot of shooters here and you'll find a lot of ranges available for your use...remember that CA is the birthplace of USPSA/ISPC shooting and most ranges have both IDPA and USPSA clubs.

Which part of CA are you looking to settle in?
We have members here from both Southern and Northern CA

NoobCannon
July 16, 2011, 09:01 PM
Well, the move is anywhere from a few months to a few years away. It all depends on how things play out. But, she currently lives in San Jose. I'm hoping to find us a little place on the outskirts of that city, the more country, the better(So I won't feel as homesick).

the count
July 16, 2011, 09:18 PM
stay out of the lunacy asylum CA has become. its not just the gun laws, its everything thats freakin nuts there!

1SOW
July 16, 2011, 11:47 PM
A new state government.

MidwestRookie
July 16, 2011, 11:47 PM
MidwestRookie and xr1200 have incorrect information in their posts.

don't you dare lump me in with that martian...I was only trying to help, I never told him anything was certain.

that xr guy has been on my blocked list since I first saw him post when I joined...

mrvco
July 16, 2011, 11:54 PM
Hopefully "South California" will be less goofy.

Stringfellow
July 17, 2011, 04:11 PM
Noob, I think what you are looking for is Morgan Hill. Close enough to San Jose, but still country.

This site made me feel a lot better. http://www.dragunov.net/bay_area_ranges.htm#losaltos

TheCount, its all a matter of what brand of lunacy bothers you most. I am moving back to Cali this week, after a 5 year stint in North Carolina. Lets just say that I will eagerly take Cali's brand of lunacy over what I found in NC. Perfect example of "to each his own".

SharpsDressedMan
July 17, 2011, 09:29 PM
It's probably too late, but California sure could use some common sense. It would be nice if you could bring them a barrel of it.

DenaliPark
July 17, 2011, 10:27 PM
I suggest a new girlfriend :o
Absolutely, that or she moves to America...

bergmen
July 17, 2011, 10:53 PM
stay out of the lunacy asylum CA has become. its not just the gun laws, its everything thats freakin nuts there!

You're not helping with this approach. Born here in 1949 and except for a brief 4 year stint in Japan have lived only in California.

It is a magnificent state, I am a life-long serious gun, reloading and shooting enthusiast and my gun safe is packed with every gun I have ever wanted (and the inventory will be added to).

There are inconveniences as a result of some of California's gun laws but they don't get in most people's way. My wife and I have had our CCW's for about ten years, we reload and shoot often and do not feel hampered in pursuing our passion at all.

Dan

CWL
July 17, 2011, 11:52 PM
Silicon Valley (San Jose) is still incredibly rural, you can still find wide open expanses and working farms and ranches within 30 minutes drive from San Jose. I grew up in Silicon Valley and it is one of the most naturally beautiful places in the world, even as it is the technology center of the world.

As for firearms in CA, most people choose to be ignorant, but CA is the birthplace of combat handgunning and custom pistols. There is a huge firearms culture in CA, and it is still the largest single market for handguns in the USA. Patriotism? CA contributes the greatest amount of soldiers for our volunteer army, as a result, we also have the highest number of fallen in the service of the USA.

If people would stop repeating babble trash and bother to learn the truth, there'd be a lot less falseness being passed on the internet.

DenaliPark
July 18, 2011, 12:12 AM
You're not helping with this approach. Born here in 1949 and except for a brief 4 year stint in Japan have lived only in California.

It is a magnificent state, I am a life-long serious gun, reloading and shooting enthusiast and my gun safe is packed with every gun I have ever wanted (and the inventory will be added to).

There are inconveniences as a result of some of California's gun laws but they don't get in most people's way. My wife and I have had our CCW's for about ten years, we reload and shoot often and do not feel hampered in pursuing our passion at all.

Dan
You might take an extended trip into America, perhaps Montana, Texas, Idaho, Arizona, Utah or the Dakotas, then come back here and tell us "not helping it" types how nice it is in **********...

You first have to know what it is you're missing to know you're missing it!

918v
July 18, 2011, 12:36 AM
You can bring both guns in and then register them by mailing in a form and paying the fee. You may bring the mags in disassembled as spare parts, but you may not reassemble them inside the state. Go to the ag.ca.gov website and read for yourself.

Effigy
July 18, 2011, 12:47 AM
I question the sanity of any gun enthusiast who would willingly move to California. Love is a hell of a drug, I guess.

918v
July 18, 2011, 12:49 AM
We have great weather.

Effigy
July 18, 2011, 12:52 AM
So does Florida. The difference is they don't have ridiculous restrictions on firearms ownership.

shiftyer1
July 18, 2011, 12:55 AM
I can't contribute as far as laws but I know texas will let you and your girl come back when your ready:) You can take a texan out of texas but it's damn hard to take the texas out of him. Although i've never been to Cali. I wish you well.

918v
July 18, 2011, 12:59 AM
So does Florida

Too much humidity and the bugs are bigger.

Stringfellow
July 18, 2011, 01:25 AM
I was really looking forward to some legitimate insight here, and all we get are a bunch of trolls talking smack.

My kingdom, for some moderation here.

NoobCannon
July 18, 2011, 02:22 AM
Same here. The only real help I got out of this was from a Moderator.

Seriously, if I'm going to have to go low road....

SHUT UP about California's "crazy" gun laws. Just keep those opinions to yourself.

Trolls. About as helpful as a Hemorrhoid.

9mmepiphany
July 18, 2011, 02:30 AM
I think you've got about as much help on this thread as you're going to get.

I thought about pruning all the relationship advice post and all the comparative state post, but it really wasn't worth the trouble. Plus leaving them stand will live on as an example of how not to direct post to the OP's question and the amount of bad information there is out there about certain states

If you have more questions, please feel free to start another thread

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