Possible Federal Cartridge screwup


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arisch
July 16, 2011, 10:11 PM
Today, while shooting a steel match down in Circleville, Ohio, I noticed some of my newly purchased 45 Auto rounds from federal looked much different but couldn't put my finger on what it was at first, then it dawned on me, why in the hell would a ammunition maker create 45 Auto cartridges with a SMALL PISTOL PRIMER!

Now after seeing this I was infuriated, as to thinking what could have really happened if I did not notice this and tried to ram a large pistol primer in there, oh boy!

Sorry just a little rant and rave and a heads up

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Nugilum
July 16, 2011, 10:16 PM
Dude, do you have pics!?! :eek:

rule303
July 16, 2011, 10:19 PM
Been seeing that the last few years now, the Federal NT cases, and some CCI cases have the small primer pocket. I believe they are only used in the lead free designs. Sure slows down the reloading process when they find their way into the progressive press...

Caliper_RWVA
July 16, 2011, 10:23 PM
I believe they are only used in the lead free designs.

Just bought a box of regular Federal 45's from Wally World and they are small primer.

Larry Ashcraft
July 16, 2011, 10:26 PM
what could have really happened if I did not notice this and tried to ram a large pistol primer in there?

If you tried to ram a large pistol primer in there, it wouldn't have fit.

End of story.

Why do we, as gun owners, try to assign worst case scenarios to everything?

chrt396
July 16, 2011, 10:29 PM
Yep! I bought some at Wally World, and actually they were quite cheap! Not bad either. However...I did NOT realize they had a small primer..until I was cycling them through my bench primer..and tried to jam a LP Primer in there and cracked the primer body assembly. Now..I do not buy them anymore...and I also check every piece of brass to verify primer. My son was being nice last week and found some 45 brass on the range floor and put it in my box with the other brass. I didn't know it until I started priming...and boy did it let me know.

XM855
July 16, 2011, 10:45 PM
Why do we, as gun owners, try to assign worst case scenarios to everything?

Because, as gun owners, our worst case scenarios can usually end in a more serious result. Everyone's always looking for a new way to make guns seem more dangerous, imagine the headlines. "Some local gun owners go as far as to load their own ammunition. Some experts say that the materials used in this very dangerous activity could be as dangerous as having a meth lab next door!" Be honest, anti-gunners have said stupider things than that.

rbernie
July 16, 2011, 10:48 PM
Small primer 45ACP has been around for years, starting with the low-tox variants and slowly expanding to other mainstream applications.

I have, in fact, tried to reprime SP 45ACP brass on my Dillon 550B and it's pretty much a non-event; it just doesn't fit and the primer simply falls apart if you try to push matters further.

Jim Watson
July 16, 2011, 10:56 PM
The ammo companies aren't talking.
Small primer .45 Auto was the second generation of purpose made lead free primer ammo. (The first was Winclean with large primers and VERY large flashholes. No doubt there was earlier stuff with leadless mix in regular cups and cases, but there is no way to spot them.)
At first all you saw with small primers was headstamped NT.
Now we see brass with small primers and NO mark for NT.

My question is, are they using regular lead styphnate small primers because it is cheaper for them to just make one size of primer pocket for either type primer, or have they quit marking Dinol primed ammo NT?

I don't know.
And don't much care until I see enough of the small stuff to be worth a separate loading run.

Lunie
July 16, 2011, 11:19 PM
Not a screwup. Like it or not, it was intentional.

As explained above. I have a couple boxes worth of small primer .45 ACP cases, mostly Fiocchi headstamps. Mostly NT, as Jim mentioned.

Many folks have been loading the small primer pocket brass with small pistol primers. To my knowledge, with no detrimental effects.

Just sort them out before you load.

goon
July 17, 2011, 04:07 PM
If you tried to ram a large pistol primer in there, it wouldn't have fit.

End of story.

Why do we, as gun owners, try to assign worst case scenarios to everything?

Agreed. I've screwed up priming before and still do occasionally. Primers get damaged and to this day they still have always gone off... I always pop my mistakes before repriming the cases to use them.
Anything that isn't going to work, such as brass with small primer pockets or anything with splits, should be sorted out before you start priming anyhow.

BTW - back in the day a company called Hansen loaded some .45 ACP with small pistol primers. It's not a new event.

Larry Ashcraft
July 17, 2011, 05:18 PM
Agreed. I've also - *gasp* - decapped live primers! Lots of them, and never had one pop.

I always wear safety glasses while reloading, so even if one did "go off" it might startle me, but nothing else bad would likely happen.

When I was a kid, my dad was a pioneer reloader. He would save up his damaged primers and just to show us kids how powerful they were, he would hit them with a hammer on the sidewalk. Or maybe it was just the kid in him making him do that.

Anyway, a primer going off is much like one of the old Ladyfinger firecrackers.

Drail
July 17, 2011, 10:28 PM
"Ladyfinger firecrackers ?" Man, you're showing your age there. These kids won't have any idea what you're talking about. Brings back lots of memories. Personally, to me, the idea of making a .45 ACP case with a small primer is just....wrong.

Caliper_RWVA
July 18, 2011, 06:38 AM
I was thinking about this last night as I sorted through a tumblerfull of 45ACP brass for SP cases... Why did 45ACP get a LP primer in the first place? Seems that the SP primer works fine and powder charges aren't that large anyways.

RyanAnchors
July 18, 2011, 06:55 AM
Is there a possibility that there is an ulterior motive for this?
Like maybe they don't want you to reload their brass (and would rather you buy more factory ammunition)?

I know that sounds pretty http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu330/cthulhu19887/smileys/tinfoilhat-2.gif
But ammo companies are still corporations with profit in mind (as they should be).

Davek1977
July 18, 2011, 07:00 AM
There is no conspiracy nor mixup. These loads were designed with the smalll primer pocket and this is neither earth-shattering, new, or something to be overly concerned with.

Fat_46
July 18, 2011, 07:33 AM
I LOVE the small primer 45ACP cases! I currently load 38, 9mm, 223, and 45 on my Dillon. With the small primers I don't have to change out th primer system. Just plop the toolhead on and start pulling.

I'd be more than happy to take those screwed up cases off your hands...

rscalzo
July 18, 2011, 07:49 AM
Ammo makers manufacture ammo to go bang. they don't manufacturer it with the intention of making your reloading easier. Nor are they under any obligation to use the LP primers. Seems to me that making the entire line SP primer simplifies the manufacturing process.

goon
July 18, 2011, 01:13 PM
Agreed. I've also - *gasp* - decapped live primers! Lots of them, and never had one pop.

I always wear safety glasses while reloading, so even if one did "go off" it might startle me, but nothing else bad would likely happen.



I bought a thousand new 7.62x54R cases once that were primed but still had some kind of lube on them. My powder kept getting contaminated with this new brass so I deprimed all of them, almost 1000 primed casings, and tumbled them all with no catastrophic consequences.
I also wore safety glasses, but otherwise I don't know what precautions you could really take.
I actually think priming with a hand priming tool like a Lee or RCBS might be more dangerous because if one did somehow go off it might set off the rest of the primers in the tray. But again, I've smashed too many to count during priming. I've also smashed some trying to prime brass that I didn't realize had a military crimp. Other than annoying me, it's not realy a big deal.

Is there a possibility that there is an ulterior motive for this?
Like maybe they don't want you to reload their brass (and would rather you buy more factory ammunition)?



Ammo companies also sell reloading components. I don't save much money by shooting reloads, I just shoot more. I still spend the money on their products.
And Federal sells the same small pistol primers needed to reload this brass.

Carl N. Brown
July 18, 2011, 01:25 PM
I learned a little while back not to assume that all cartridges traditionally loaded with large pistol primers will all have large pistol primers. I decap with the old Lee Loader case holder, punch and mallet system and visually inspect each casing, and sort by maker and primer size manually, so its not a problem for me. But I see how it can be a problem when running an automated system.

FIVETWOSEVEN
July 18, 2011, 10:06 PM
I've shot a few small pistol primers out of an airpistol at concrete before, kinda fun when it makes that pop when it hits.

mgmorden
July 19, 2011, 09:45 AM
Ammo makers manufacture ammo to go bang. they don't manufacturer it with the intention of making your reloading easier. Nor are they under any obligation to use the LP primers. Seems to me that making the entire line SP primer simplifies the manufacturing process.

This sums it up in a nutshell. Federal and any other cartridge maker is selling you ammo to shoot. That you can reload it is an unintended side benefit. Using the same primer type for all ammo just makes things more efficient, likely giving them an edge in being able to charge lower prices (Federal is usually the cheapest of the "big three" domestic cartridge makers).

Heck I can honestly say that if we were starting over and there was no worry of mixing it up, I think the small pistol primers in them are a far, far better idea. Nothing more aggravating than running out of one type of primer while having stacks of another (ie, I've been shooting 9mm mostly lately, and am down to one last tray of Small Pistol - I've got about 1500 Large Rifle primers and the only rifles I've fired lately was less than 10 shots last deer season . . . ).

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