Replace rear seat with pistol safe! (Toyota Matrix) - need help!


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RyanAnchors
July 16, 2011, 11:25 PM
Anyone here have a Matrix?

I want to remove the small half of my rear seat (including mounting bracket) and replace it with a small safe.

So I want to take this out, but aside from those two bolts, I can't figure out what else I need to do (I did find instructions online, but they were kind of hard to follow without visuals and not very well written).

http://i51.tinypic.com/mlgg21.jpg

And I have this little guy laying around that I'm not using since I got my big safe.
So I want to bolt it down to the floor where the seat above is.

http://i53.tinypic.com/qoaxsj.jpg

Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.

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Shienhausser
July 17, 2011, 12:13 AM
Have you been on Toyota Matrix forums as well? It's easier to steal a car than a safe. A car with a safe in it already is good news to thieves. I admire your curiosity as many things I've wanted to do didn't make sense but I did them anyway, but why do this?

Zach S
July 17, 2011, 12:37 AM
I've made secure(ish) storage areas and speaker enclosures for a few cars - all were out of sight.

I would not install a safe in place of a back seat. It would stick out as much as Rob Zombie at Church.

357 Terms
July 17, 2011, 12:43 AM
Lol, you might be your a mall ninja if...

KingMedicine
July 17, 2011, 02:06 AM
that seems like a obvious visual area for a safe. They make car safes that lock under your car seat or trunk. Then its at least hidden.

pikid89
July 17, 2011, 02:15 AM
It wouldnt be prudent

Bovice
July 17, 2011, 02:29 AM
Gotta agree with everyone else. That's a terrible spot for a safe. You're better off keeping your vehicle as inconspicuous as possible. That means no gun mfg stickers, no NRA stickers, nothing. Keep it plain and boring. If it looks uninteresting, the thieves will pass it up. Take this for example.

When I was in HS, I had a 1993 Chevrolet 1500 pickup, with a single cab and a short bed. It had the 350 V8 in it and of course it had a decent exhaust. I was dual enrolling at the community college my senior year, and one day somebody tried breaking into it. Looking back, I know why. It was loud, fast, and the dark blue paint was brand-spanking new, waxed and polished to a showroom shine, and all the chrome (factory only, I don't add unnecessary chrome) was polished extremely well. They tried using a slim-jim on the door. They grabbed the wrong rod and just broke my door handle. Let me tell you, that was a pain in the ass to fix.

the truck is now mothballed in storage and I will resurrect her one day, but now I'm driving a 2005 white tahoe. It's loaded to the nines in options, but from the exterior you cannot tell a thing. Except maybe the sunroof :) Only GM nerds know what that would mean. But on the exterior, it's got a plain, boring color. No matter how much I wax and glaze it, white just doesn't have the same effect as a dark color. It's still boring. But I've left all kinds of valuables in it, hidden out of view, and never had a problem. It just looks boring. Given that it's the "old body style" now to the kiddies who missed the 80s and 90s, they're going to pass it up.

Point number two. I bet you're tired of reading, but just stick with me for another little bit. You said you're driving a toyota matrix. It's a modern vehicle. Do you know how difficult it is to steal a modern vehicle? Most, if not all of these "new" vehicles have the smart ignition keys with computer chips in them. You can't hotwire those. at least I'm not aware of how you could, if it is possible. Getting into the car would likely mean breaking a window or disabling the lock. In most modern vehicles, this would sound off the horn. They'd only have a few seconds to get into that car.

A floor safe under a seat would be fine. They will get caught if they sit there and fiddle with it.

Panzercat
July 17, 2011, 02:50 AM
I'll offer a somewhat different angle here... Can you even do this safely, no pun intended? The first thought in my mind was if you're in an accident and that safe is not very securely welded down, you now have a massive chunk of metal that can potential crush whoever is in front of it, depending on the angle of impact.

My next thought is that this is a min/max scenario if there ever was. A safe is almost too much. Even if you just hollow out a seat, no safe, a passive crook isn't going to think twice about it as long as you dress the compartment up well enough. They're there to get in and out with the obvious stuff, not check for secret compartments. On the other hand, the people who take the entire car will probably also have the tools to cut the safe open and probably will find it due to the nature their business.

I think a false compartment sans safe is your best option if you have to have concealment in the car. Some form of hollow seat with a breakaway cushion not so obvious that it can be detected just by looking at it. A full blown safe... Meh. Strikes me as over-engineering the solution.

RyanAnchors
July 17, 2011, 03:07 AM
1. It will be bolted to the floor like your safe at home is bolted to the floor. It isn't going anywhere even in a rollover accident.

2. I want a place to stash my CCW firearm when I go to places I can't carry (federal building, post office, etc) and not worry about it being stolen in a smash and grab.

3. When I'm in my other state of residence and can't CCW, I have to keep my handguns locked and unloaded on the way to the range. This is easier than fiddling with all those cases and locks.

4. It might be a good place to stash cash/important papers on road trips (which I frequently make at night between AZ and CA in the middle of the desert).

5. I have an NRA sticker on my car under the tint. You can see it at daytime if you know what you're looking at - at night it is invisible even with a flash light. I have a MOLON LABE sticker - not commonly known by thieves. My license plate number is "RKBA 2A", again only gun owners are going to know what that means and even some of those probably won't haha. I will probably conceal this with a towel, cloth, pillow, wooden enclosure, or something, etc etc.

6. I did get the answer on the Matrix forums, they asked me why I needed a real safe in my car though, so I typed out a really long response about CCW, firearms, transporting, and the safe lol.

7. I don't see how a safe is "mall ninja". Did I say I was going to paint it camouflage and have is recessed into the floor so I can access it via James Bond button on the dashboard? I guess all gun racks and truck safes are mall ninja then...I guess guys with safes at home are mall ninjas too.

This car hasn't been broken into since I've had it (had previous cars burglarized), but a buddy at work had the same car with the same alarm/everything. His got broken into while he was in his house and they stole several thousand dollars of music equipment (we work at a music store).
All they did was break a window, grab a couple hundred pounds worth of gear somehow, and take off.
You would be surprised what two dudes and a crowbar can do in under 30 seconds.

I just want a place to store my PF9/holster mostly though when not at home and in a place I can't bring it.

Panzercat
July 17, 2011, 05:26 AM
Well, 30 minutes, sure. I guess as long as you can secure the thing there's nothing wrong with it, even if it strikes me as over-engineered. Then again, I can't help but to think that if your guys with 30 min to spare manage to find the safe, they might just be tempted to take the car itself to find out whats in it. Again, the min/max thing.

And I happen to agree. There's nothing mall ninjaish about the question.
Some people want their firearms more secure than others when they have to leave them behind.

RyanAnchors
July 17, 2011, 06:46 AM
If I was in AZ full-time again I would probably just opt for a concealment spot.
In fact the Matrix has a few very well hidden compartments from the factory that can be converted into a good spot for a small carry pistol.

But with California law the way it is, having it locked securely is a must (they have their own version of the "gun free school zone":rolleyes: and they actually enforce it).

I think a nice wood/upholstered enclosure over the safe would be cool too...

You just gave me an idea though.
I could always sell that safe and get a smaller one and actually hollow out the seat-cushion and put it there.
The seat cushion pops up with some extreme upward force (it is really hard). Which is just about right for the purpose.

whalerman
July 17, 2011, 07:04 AM
This is an interesting post, as I have always believed it is not a good idea to leave a weapon in a vehicle. But you guys have me understanding that there are times when it might be necessary to do so. It seems to me the best idea is deep concealment rather than a heavy safe type arrangement. Sure, use a lock box or small "safe" type compartment if you can, but the most important aspect to think of is concealment. And by that I wouldnt' opt for a simple under the seat deal. I'd also remember to be careful someone doesn't see you hide a weapon right after you park. That might be a moment where you are most vulnerable. You wouldn't want to do that with expensive electronics either. One last question. How does California "enforce" gun free school zones? Do they deploy that mind reading machine I've been hearing about so much? I'm confused. If they can do that, then they can make sure no criminals are using guns in an unlawful manner. I just might wanna move there. Utopia here I come.

Old Shooter
July 17, 2011, 07:35 AM
Seems like a lot of work to hide a PF9. Of all the suggestions so far the underseat safe seems to make the most sense, but that is a good comment about someone seeing you put it in there.

FAS1
July 17, 2011, 09:40 AM
What about something smaller mounted to the floor in the hatch?

Something like in the Mini Cooper.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/20955_248042106874_247921546874_3701187_2689587_n.jpg

armarsh
July 17, 2011, 11:30 PM
... there's nothing wrong with it, even if it strikes me as over-engineered.

There is nothing engineered with the proposed idea. Half thought through, ineffective, and dangerous, yes. Engineered, no.

To the OP: You are going to spend much more fooling with this than a gunsafe would cost. Here's one that would work for you for $55. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=314442 You will spend more on steel to reinforce the 20 ga sheet metal of the floor so the bolts won't rip through when you get in an accident with your 200 lb safe.

Frozen North
July 17, 2011, 11:43 PM
My high school math teacher was decapitated in an auto collision back in the 90's by a speaker box that was screwed down. It took his whole dang head clean off, right in front of his wife. Be careful....

If I was a thief I would attempt a smash and grab in hopes that the safe was left unlocked by mistake. It would stand to reason that anyone who installs a safe in their back seat must haul some pretty fantastic loot!

Bad idea....

EmGeeGeorge
July 18, 2011, 01:15 AM
If I put I highly visible safe in my car I would leave it unlocked and stash the gun elsewhere in the car...

In the safe I would put a raccoon that I barely fed, and poked daily with a stick.

gdesloge
July 18, 2011, 01:15 AM
Why don't you convert the seat into a "safe"?

After all, who would want to steal a seat?

gd

RyanAnchors
July 18, 2011, 06:38 AM
Like I already said. If I did this I would be concealing the safe with a speaker enclosure or at least a towel or something. I do that with anything I have to leave in my car anyway.

But anyway, I have already decided to go a more discreet route.
I just hate businesses that post "no guns" signs (they do have the force of the law in Arizona, but not in California oddly enough. If you live in one of the issuing counties and get a California CCW, there aren't many places you can't carry).

And by that I wouldnt' opt for a simple under the seat deal. One last question. How does California "enforce" gun free school zones? Do they deploy that mind reading machine I've been hearing about so much? I'm confused. If they can do that, then they can make sure no criminals are using guns in an unlawful manner. I just might wanna move there. Utopia here I come.
Criminals look under the seat first. This is a fact.
If you get pulled over in a GFSZ or if you are Unloaded Open Carrying (UOC) in one. (UOC is more of a form or protest here than something people actually do for self-defense).

What about something smaller mounted to the floor in the hatch?
Something like in the Mini Cooper.
My Crossbreed Supertuck IWB holster won't fit in that with it. I would rather keep it all in a solid piece that I can just clip back on quickly.

Why don't you convert the seat into a "safe"?
After all, who would want to steal a seat?


Good idea. Although I will mention people do steal seats. They are worth several hundred dollars and they can move them pretty quick on Craigslist, etc.

JColdIron
July 18, 2011, 11:26 AM
Conceal the safe in some manner for sure. Secure it completely so it does not become a projectile. BUT I would look for some way to mount the safe within reach of the driver so that you do not have to get out of the car and disarm while standing next to your rear door/seat.

I put a front opening safe between the seats of my Dakota. I was lucky as it had a filler seat in the middle with a fold down arm rest to make a bench seat. I took out the seat, mounted the safe to the trans tunnel and seat mounts. Then I bolted the arm rest to the safe. With the arm rest down you cannot even tell the safe is there but I can stow my gun and holster (or checkbook) without getting out of the car and revealing the potential valuable I am locking up. Much more versitile if you can reach it from your seat.

FAS1
July 18, 2011, 03:45 PM
This handgun safe is pretty well made and might be large enough for your CBST. Looking at the dimensions my G26/CBST will fit.

http://www.ftknox.com/redesign/images/safe_images/HandgunSafeBoxClosed.jpg

http://www.ftknox.com/redesign/images/safe_images/GunsafeOpen.jpg

Redlg155
July 18, 2011, 04:04 PM
I would understand if you had a Prius. "Dirty Mike and the Boys" might try to break in....:D

M-Cameron
July 18, 2011, 06:11 PM
why not bolt it in the trunk....?



that way you keep your seats......the safe is out of view.......and you still have semi-ready access to it if you need it......

RyanAnchors
July 18, 2011, 11:20 PM
JColdIron: I like your setup! That sounds cool. I want something like that. I just don't want a LEO to decide my safe is now a "center console" which is an illegal place to lock a firearm up for transport in California.

FAS1: Maybe I can just sell this safe to fund a real handgun strong box. How are you liking the CBST with the G26 combo?

RedLG155: Hahaha great movie. Desk pop!

M-Cameron: If I had a trunk I wouldn't need any of this crap. A trunk counts as a locked container in California, but I have a hatchback and if the "trunk" is accessible from the interior it isn't a "trunk" under the law.

FAS1
July 19, 2011, 10:55 AM
FAS1: Maybe I can just sell this safe to fund a real handgun strong box. How are you liking the CBST with the G26 combo?

I like it for most of the time and the CBST is the best IWB holster I have tried. It is still pretty big to carry all the time especially in the summer heat around here. I trust my G26 completely as I do my G17 for home defense so I am very comfortable with the Glocks. My BUG and for when it's hard to carry anything else I also have a P3AT that I pocket carry all the time in a nylon pocket holster.

RyanAnchors
July 19, 2011, 02:10 PM
Nice. I used to have an OD green Ruger LCP that I really liked carrying in a nylon Blackhawk holster, but I got over .380 costing an arm and a leg compared to 9mm, which I also like more for SD purposes.

I do miss it though. Maybe I'll pick up a P3AT again sometime. I like Kel-Tec a lot as a company so far, anytime I email them they respond in a day or two.

JColdIron
July 21, 2011, 11:22 AM
JColdIron: I like your setup! That sounds cool. I want something like that. I just don't want a LEO to decide my safe is now a "center console" which is an illegal place to lock a firearm up for transport in California.


Thanks! It works for me in NC with a CCW permit. I did not know that was a restricted location in Cali. I assume this is a NON CCW stipulation? Under the seat safe possible? Or do they require it to be out of reach completely?

303tom
July 21, 2011, 12:58 PM
Don`t that seatback fold down with access to the trunk , put it in there then you won`t have to hide it , just put the seatback up !

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