Ripped off by pawn shop


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pawnshopripoff
July 18, 2011, 04:03 AM
I was ripped off by a pawn shop. I purchased a pump shotgun, around $150, and was assured that it worked and worked great. I got it home and it didn't cycle shells; unless I took snap caps with me, which I don't own, there's no way of know this from looking at it. When I brought it back to discuss it with them, they simply pointed to the "all sales final" sign. I told them that I thought it was dishonest of them to tell me it functioned properly if they didn't know. They told me they wouldn't do anything about it and to leave, and suggested I take it to the other pawn shop in town, tell them it worked, and see if they'd give me anything for it by lying that it functions.

I have another firearm, a handgun, that doesn't fire. I bought it new, I returned it when it didn't fire, the company did some work and sent it back. It still didn't fire. They sent me a replacement and I kept the non-functional firearm.

I was considering getting my money back for the initial firearm by selling them this one (it's a low-cost firearm, maybe $150-200 new). I would take it to the place that ripped me off and sell it as working (they're fools, they certainly won't remember me).

However, I wouldn't want to burden the person THEY sell it with a broken item. So, I was considering calling and telling them it didn't work after they had paid. I know they keep your information on file, though. I'm wondering if they have any recourse. I just don't want to make someone else stuck with a broken gun like I was, but I can't put up with people like this getting away with stealing people's money. Would they have any recourse?

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sig232
July 18, 2011, 04:09 AM
I was ripped off by a pawn shop

You don't say?..........

ColtPythonElite
July 18, 2011, 04:12 AM
Sounds like all sales are final to me.

sig232
July 18, 2011, 04:13 AM
Well, you can write reviews, usually yahoo has business listings where you can do that.

Drop the shop's name/location here. Might as well let the world know not to deal with them if that's how they operate.

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 04:15 AM
They wouldn't really have anymore recourse in that situation than you have now. They would just turn around and sell it to someone else that didn't know better and the cycle would repeat itself and they wouldn't be out much if anything.

Personally if I were you I would set up shop immediately off their property as close as you could legally be, and inform everyone going in of their tactics. Preferably with a bullhorn. Ensure that they're actions cost them way more than the $150 they made off of you. In one days time you could cost them way more. Maybe get the business cards of their competitors and pass them out at the nearest choke point to the store (again off their property so you can't be forced to leave). In short kick them in the cash register. I wouldn't stop the above course of actions until either they gave me a complete refund for the broken gun, or I was sure that it cost them many times more than they made off of me.

shiftyer1
July 18, 2011, 04:17 AM
They have no recourse but the broken firearm you sell them will probably be resold as working to another sucker.

I have 10 years pawn experience and actually got fired in jan. for standing behind items sold.

Why doesn't it cycle shells...I bet it's an easy fix. If you give more info I bet we can get it running for you.

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 04:19 AM
and seriously plaster it all over the internet. yahoo/google/whatever business reviews. And you should post their info here as well.

pawnshopripoff
July 18, 2011, 04:32 AM
Sounds like all sales are final to me.

Maybe you're not familiar with lemon laws, but these sorts of practices aren't just frowned upon, they're illegal. However, being a pawn shop, they're well aware that most of their customers aren't going to spend a considerable amount of time and money taking them to small claims court.

So, no, when it comes to selling something as functional when it doesn't, as far as the law is concerned, all sales are not "final." The issue is handling the situation.

However, this is not what this thread is about. This thread is about getting my money back by selling them something as functional, which say what you will, I have zero moral issue with. However, I don't want someone else to get stuck with it, so I was wondering if they had any recourse if I called to tell them it didn't work.

bigfatdave
July 18, 2011, 04:33 AM
and seriously plaster it all over the internet. yahoo/google/whatever business reviews. And you should post their info here as well. that's true ... but this is not a pawn-shop review forum, it is a gun forum.

Drop a nastygram over in "Rate retail and private transactions" with shop name and location, and get some info up in the shotgun forum if you want to take a swing at repair - but don't expect a magic formula for making pawn shops be honest to crop up in the legal forum

shiftyer1
July 18, 2011, 04:36 AM
THEY HAVE ZERO RECOURSE but it will be resold to someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sooooo back to what is the gun u bought and why is it not functioning?

pawnshopripoff
July 18, 2011, 04:38 AM
Well, you can write reviews, usually yahoo has business listings where you can do that.

Drop the shop's name/location here. Might as well let the world know not to deal with them if that's how they operate.

I actually wrote several reviews, and filed with the BBB. They told me they don't "reprimand businesses," which was all I asked for, as I've since gotten rid of the shotgun.

They have no recourse but the broken firearm you sell them will probably be resold as working to another sucker.

I have 10 years pawn experience and actually got fired in jan. for standing behind items sold.

Why doesn't it cycle shells...I bet it's an easy fix. If you give more info I bet we can get it running for you.

I was trying to think of a way to make it obvious that it doesn't work except on their first inspection, but that seems... well, not possible.

It was a difficult shotgun to repair, as far as I've read online. It's a commonly problematic item, and most smiths that responded to posts about it said it would be more expensive to repair than to simply throw away and buy another firearm.

pawnshopripoff
July 18, 2011, 04:40 AM
THEY HAVE ZERO RECOURSE but it will be resold to someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sooooo back to what is the gun u bought and why is it not functioning?

I've since gotten rid of it. Every discussion I found online with similar issues said this particular model was more expensive to repair than just to buy something else.

shiftyer1
July 18, 2011, 04:42 AM
Now u really have me curious, what model shotgun did you buy?

pawnshopripoff
July 18, 2011, 04:50 AM
Now u really have me curious, what model shotgun did you buy?

It was a Stevens pump. I forget the model, it was 12ga, looked fairly simple, but apparently the barrel wasn't removable without unwelding it, which is what would be needed to really repair anything mechanically.

MarkDozier
July 18, 2011, 05:04 AM
i have never heard of a Stevens pump with a welded barrel.

sig232
July 18, 2011, 05:22 AM
Personally if I were you I would set up shop immediately off their property as close as you could legally be, and inform everyone going in of their tactics. Preferably with a bullhorn. Ensure that they're actions cost them way more than the $150 they made off of you. In one days time you could cost them way more.

Trollololol I like it!

shiftyer1
July 18, 2011, 05:25 AM
I was going that direction but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

sig232
July 18, 2011, 05:26 AM
I actually wrote several reviews, and filed with the BBB. They told me they don't "reprimand businesses," which was all I asked for, as I've since gotten rid of the shotgun.


BBB is a joke. They have high ratings for some of the biggest scams out there.

Apocalypse-Now
July 18, 2011, 05:46 AM
you have to check lemon laws in your state. you may have legal recourse, but probably not. they did lie to you (never trust pawn shops), so you can at the least report them to the BBB.

Bubba613
July 18, 2011, 06:50 AM
Presumably the gun was a used item. The Pawn Shop is not obligated to assure that it works. Caveat emptor. Buyer was looking for a deal. If he wanted to be sure something worked, he could have bought a new gun with a warranty from the manufacturer, or gone to a traditional gun shop with a good reputation.
Being assured it "worked great" is called "sales puffing" in legal terms and carries no weight.
The pawn shop is correct here. The buyer is out.

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 07:22 AM
Regardless of the legality and the concept of buyer beware, which I agree with by the way, scamming someone still isn't "correct" as you put it. I think scam sums up quite nicely a business that sells something broken as working.

Bubba613
July 18, 2011, 07:26 AM
The pawn shop may have had no way of knowing whether the gun worked or not. I don't see any scamming going on here.

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 07:32 AM
That'd be fine to sell like that and if the OP claimed they made no representations about the conditions I would say tough luck. His account however, which is all we have to go on, has the employees assuring him that the gun works. Since this was not the case and they essentially told him oh well your fault, it's a scam. Maybe the OP put it best by just calling it a rip off.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 18, 2011, 08:14 AM
Most people are totally into guns, or they are NOT into guns AT ALL. There is usually no "middle-ground" where folks happen to be, i.e., they either know about guns and how they function, or they are TOTALLY clueless. These people in this pawn shop are most likely the "clueless-ones" - or they are "dumb as a fox!" How could they check if the pump shotgun worked if they don't even have a 12 gauge shell to put into the thing -- not to mention five shells or so -- not to mention, do they even know HOW to insert the shells into the gun and do they even know or even care how the gun operates? For most people, the answer is NO, they do not know and they really don't care to know!

I've seen guns at GUN STORES that were for sale as "working" that didn't work! At one store, when I confronted the store owner, I asked him how he checks a used gun that is brought in -- does he take the guns apart, does he check headspace, etc., etc., etc?

The simple answer was "no, I take it outside and load a few rounds and fire the gun, it either functions as it should, or it doesn't."

The problem with that is it just may work fine for five shells, ten, or even a box of 25 shells. However there could still be an intermittent problem where the gun somehow does not function properly, ON OCCASION. So, had he loaded a 26th shell, the gun would not have functioned properly or somehow would not have fired!

This is the exact reason I don't typically buy things that are used - AND, it is the main reason why I never opened up my own gun store!

Some times, not always, but some times, things are sold by people because they do not work properly in some way -- there happens to be something wrong with it, and, whatever it is (from a microwave oven to a boat) may have some kind of problem that will end up costing more to fix than the object is even WORTH!

A relative of mine buys used stuff all the time and he always seems to get stuff that is old, but like brand-new, and he always seems to buy this stuff for a song! I try buying one used item, no matter what it is, and I feel like I got taken -- all because I spent $60 on a gun that I presumed was in good condition until I got it home and completely stripped it to detail-clean it, only to find the thing happens to really be a conglomeration of broken parts (probably all the broken parts from all the good guns of the same model that got sold and these were all the leftover parts, assembled into one huge LEMON of a gun)!

Let's say someone is really into a certain exact model gun (or car, or boat) to the point where they buy and scarf up every single one of those models that they possibly can! Eventually, they have an entire workbench-full of miscellaneous parts that are all, in some way, broken or completely worn beyond functional. They then assemble a gun (car or boat), using all the "leftover" parts that were replaced from all the good guns (cars, boats) that they acquired and they sell the one made out of junk -- claiming that it works, they also sell the other ones, one-by-one, and they keep the one they assembled that has all the newest, finest, least-worn parts for their very own!

I've seen it happen with cars (people who are really into refurbishing a certain year and model of old car)! I'm sure it happens with just about any item you can think of!

As for this post and the OP, the only thing you can really do is consider that you have learned from this experience. Sure, you could do all kinds of things to "get even" -- however, in the long-run, you are really spending your time on something that could best be put behind you and just move on. Some people will spend hours upon HOURS trying to get back at someone who did them wrong and they get their blood pressure all up in the meantime and they spend so much time that, if they were to be doing something constructive, they could be making up for what they lost in no time (meanwhile, here I am writing an entire book on the subject)! LOL!

Old Shooter
July 18, 2011, 08:27 AM
Over the years I've bought a number of guns in pawnshops and I've always understood that I am buying it "as is". Rack the slide a few times, check the barrel and any other easily accessable areas, look it over carefully and then make your decision. I've gotten some really nice weapons that way and I've also gotten a couple that Numrich Arms (Gun Parts Place) and I have gotten to function just fine with a little tweaking and parts replacement.

The pawn shop gets them in, the owner says it works just fine, they really have no way to tell otherwise and arn't going to the range with each one to test fire them. It's too bad you got one that was going to need some work but if you want an inexpensive gun with fewer worries, that is what Wal-Mart is for. Current manufacture, brand names and with a warrenty, the only "history" the gun will have is the one you give it.

rscalzo
July 18, 2011, 08:44 AM
they really have no way to tell otherwise and arn't going to the range with each one to test fire them

Face it. Even the used guns taken into local gun shops are not tested. None that I know of around here tests the guns traded in. Most will give a guarantee to return if defective. Most also charge more than the pawn shops.

Ron James
July 18, 2011, 08:50 AM
This is a case that if it happened to me, I would feel so stupid about my self I wouldn't tell anyone. Buying any used object from a pawn shop and then complain because it isn't brand new??? Good grief Charlie Brown.

CajunBass
July 18, 2011, 08:53 AM
I don't see where anyone "ripped you off". You bought a pig in a poke, and got burned. The shop had no more way to know it didn't work than you did. Bite the bullet and move on, or get the gun fixed. Good grief. It's a pump gun. It can't be but so complicated. I don't know what you paid for it, but I wouldn't have paid but so much for a Stevens pump. They weren't expensive new.

i have never heard of a Stevens pump with a welded barrel.

My BIL has/had one. I don't know if the barrel was "welded" or not, but it wasn't removable. Not a bad gun really.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 18, 2011, 09:15 AM
If this is the gun I think it is (Springfield model 67H), I believe that gun was sold under different names (and model numbers) back before guns were required to have serial numbers. It was not uncommon for these to have been sold new at Sears, and Western Auto - back in the day when Sears and WA sold guns.

The pump-action shotguns are really fairly simple to completely dismantle and reassemble, that is, if you are careful and know what you are doing.

Reassembling a pump shotgun can be a bear if you don't know in what order and exactly how the parts go in. I know, from experience that - if you bull and jam the thing to try to make the pieces go back together - that is when the problems start as you are bending certain parts that were designed to be perfectly straight! I'm thinking, in particular, of the action bar (some have one, others, two) that makes the bolt operate from movement of the sliding forend. The action bar(s) are typically the most difficult part to get in properly and easily. If you jam on that to make it fit, you will most likely have a gun that either doesn't work or doesn't work properly!

Also, many of these old guns have never been completely disassembled and cleaned. Grease that was used back in the 60's becomes hard over the years and nothing short of removing every single part and cleaning it with carb cleaner and a toothbrush will get the parts clean and in working order (especially tiny parts, springs, etc). Add a bit of field-dirt to that hardened grease and you have parts that no longer work properly just due to being so gunked up!

Mike1234567
July 18, 2011, 10:16 AM
Sorry to hear of your problem. IMHO, most pawn shops are opened with the GOAL to be rip-off scams.

PRM
July 18, 2011, 10:37 AM
A "pawn shop" ripping someone off, not standing behind what they sell???

Who ever heard of that happening?

All sales final regardless of what they say about the item when its sold.
Sort of says it all ~ I don't by used cars at "Fast Eddies" either. I don't think I would buy anything from a dealer who as a matter of policy and advertising, won't stand behind their product. "All sales final" is stated for a reason.

1. They don't care about the quality of the item.
2. Once your money is in their pocket ~ its your problem.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 18, 2011, 10:51 AM
I don't think the OP mentioned just what kind of problem the gun was giving him. Perhaps all the old gun needed was some TLC, complete strip-down and clean every part and reassemble. I know, as I have a .22 Semi Auto from 1950 - 1957 era that I have spent about 14 hours on in the past three days, completely removing and dismantling EVERY SINGLE PART! I figure there was a total of about one level teaspoon of grayish, black, gritty material all through the receiver and all within the tiny springs and parts of the bolt!

The insides of the gun looked like it had NEVER been cleaned since it was new! It looked like someone threw it into the sand on the beach at one point and just wiped it down and continued to shoot it! The one positive thing is that the parts are well-broken in together with all that grit over the years wearing on things! Inside the bolt, there was a pin that was broken in half! I happened to have a tiny, hardened steel small screwdriver with a shaft which mic'd at the exact diameter of that pin! I used my Dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the screwdriver shaft down to the size of the broken pin and the new pin fit just like it was original!

All I can say is, after all this trouble, I hope the thing shoots!
LOL!

It was given to me, so I really only have TIME into it.

Art Eatman
July 18, 2011, 10:55 AM
Enough. The OP says it's a moral issue for him; he's aware of the law. This isn't a morality forum.

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