How do they get caught?


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Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 06:22 PM
Disclaimer: This topic is in no way is meant to advocate violating the National Firearms Act and is entirely academic.

Question: How do people with illegal full auto weapons get caught? For the purpose of this discussion assume we're discussing an illegal mod and not just an unregistered manufactured auto as this would likely have a select fire switch that might raise questions and nullify this one.

Example: Police pull over man with AR in his car. A lot of the time they don't even touch the gun, and when they do it pretty much never goes further than running the SN. So lets say the run the guys license, no warrants/non felon. They run the SN and the gun is not stolen. Lets also assume that the gun doesn't have a selector switch that raises questions. At this point I don't think it is plausible that the cop is gonna load up the gun and let a few go into the median to ensure that it is only firing one round per pull of the trigger.

That's basically it, how do people get caught in these situations? I feel like I've heard about way more people being busted for unregistered SBSs than unregistered autos, but I don't know whether this is a function of the ease of the modification or a function of the difficulty of enforcement. The same question for the same reasons could essentially be applied to 922r compliance but we'll save that for another day.

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FIVETWOSEVEN
July 18, 2011, 06:28 PM
Act like idiots and bring them to a public range or shoot them where other people hear it and call the police.

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 06:30 PM
I knew I forgot something........my theories on how it happens, which you pretty much nailed five.

dovedescending
July 18, 2011, 06:33 PM
Yeah, you would have to get caught shooting it, or be reported to the ATF by somebody you bragged to.

On a related note, I did have a deputy roll up one time to check on my friends and I... we had been unloading a Mini-14 with a 40 or 50 round magazine by pulling the trigger as fast as we could, and somebody thought they heard a machine gun...

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 06:57 PM
did he make an attempt to find out if the mini was full auto?

Jim Watson
July 18, 2011, 07:03 PM
The only one I know of around here, the outgoing soon-to-be-ex wife in a contested divorce squealed on the guy.

dovedescending
July 18, 2011, 07:04 PM
No, actually, he made no attempt to verify whether or not it was automatic... he took our word for it... hmmm...

MasterSergeantA
July 18, 2011, 07:33 PM
I agree with FIVETWOSEVEN and know of other cases that mirror what dovedescending said. Bragging to ANYONE about the illegal automatic weapon you built is a bad idea. Unhappy ex-wives (aren't they all?) can also be an issue.

When I take my (legally registered) Class III toys to the local range, I always have a copy of my Forms 1 or 4 with me...just in case. I am less concerned about the steely-eyed ATF agent waiting to pounce on me than I am the slack-jawed local yokel who "knows" what is and isn't legal. A lot of police officers/sheriff's deputies I have met do NOT know that automatic weapons are still legal. And many don't know that silencers are either. The ATF guy will normally back off when the paperwork comes out.

rocky branch
July 18, 2011, 08:51 PM
Shooting off one's mouth and shooting off the piece are two biggies.

Some country people ignore it if they know you or just report what they hear.
You can hear these things for miles.
Lots of people who don't know or consider their neighbors anymore.

The Watchman
July 18, 2011, 08:59 PM
Most likely Shooting it where someone will hear it and report it to the police. Once while shooting out on some property for a good uninterrupted 2+ hours, I decided to empty a 75 round drum from the AMD 65 with a basically flawless bumpfire..lol.. In about 10 minutes two cop cars pulled up. The only thing they asked was if everything was ok because they had "reports of automatic weapon fire." None of our rifles were inspected though.

JVaughn
July 18, 2011, 09:02 PM
This raises another question for me...
why would anyone call the police if they saw someone shooting at a rifle range, or heard gunfire in the woods? Mind your own.

wally
July 18, 2011, 09:05 PM
We were shooting my registered Thompson at a friend's farm before a bunch of people showed up for a large party. All the guns were put up well before the party started, I thought it funny how the neighbors were cool with fully automatic gun fire, but called the cops for rock'n'roll music! Cops never asked about guns, just made us move the music and dance floor inside.

Ah, life in the country :)
I'd leave the city in a heartbeat if my wife would let me!

Danb1215
July 18, 2011, 09:24 PM
This raises another question for me...
why would anyone call the police if they saw someone shooting at a rifle range, or heard gunfire in the woods? Mind your own.
Because 98% of people have absolutely no concept of minding their own business (at least not all the time, they're happy not to get involved when that suits them) they know just whats best for everyone else and constantly need to make everyone else aware of this. Of course they almost always hang back and rely on public "servants" to make everyone else's lives as boring and sad as theirs, instead of doing it themselves. Rant completed.

VP
July 18, 2011, 09:36 PM
I agree. People don't mind their own business. I live out in the country. I know a few of the deputies and 911 dispatchers out here and they told me how people call in all the time reporting any gunfire, especially on the 4th of July. Makes no sense.

Geckgo
July 18, 2011, 09:39 PM
Heard a story about a guy who was called in to the police for making his Thompson automatic by the person who showed him how. Allegedly the person showing him was with one DOJ branch or another, possibly a narc. Funny enough, if they never did it then they would not get in trouble for it :) That's just my theory, more focus on trying to repeal stupid laws and less focus on "workarounds".

JTW Jr.
July 19, 2011, 12:21 AM
Perhaps by doing something like this ?

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/14968534/henderson-man-arrested-for-celebratory-gunfire

What is kind of ironic is his statement "I'm the only one that shot the gun. I shot it into the ground. I'm not stupid enough to shoot it into the air."

Notice he didn't make a comment about being smart enough to not take an unregistered full auto outside , in city limits to show off.....hmmmm

GoingQuiet
July 19, 2011, 02:35 AM
Disclaimer: This topic is in no way is meant to advocate violating the National Firearms Act and is entirely academic.

Question: How do people with illegal full auto weapons get caught? For the purpose of this discussion assume we're discussing an illegal mod and not just an unregistered manufactured auto as this would likely have a select fire switch that might raise questions and nullify this one.

Example: Police pull over man with AR in his car. A lot of the time they don't even touch the gun, and when they do it pretty much never goes further than running the SN. So lets say the run the guys license, no warrants/non felon. They run the SN and the gun is not stolen. Lets also assume that the gun doesn't have a selector switch that raises questions. At this point I don't think it is plausible that the cop is gonna load up the gun and let a few go into the median to ensure that it is only firing one round per pull of the trigger.

That's basically it, how do people get caught in these situations? I feel like I've heard about way more people being busted for unregistered SBSs than unregistered autos, but I don't know whether this is a function of the ease of the modification or a function of the difficulty of enforcement. The same question for the same reasons could essentially be applied to 922r compliance but we'll save that for another day.
Allow me to tell you a story. I was at a friend's graduation party and we had all gone out for drinks. Someone at the bar asked me what I did - since I was wearing my Glock shirt.

I said I'm a gun dealer. The following statement was then asked to me.

"Hey, you know how to make anything full auto? Cause I got friends out in Texas and Arizona that will pay TOP DOLLAR (emphasis his) for you to put something like that together. They got a war going on down there you know."

So I said: "Sure, for the right amount of money I'll make it legal."

"Oh really? Well I got an AR15, about how much would it cost for you to do something like that?"

"About fifteen."

"Oh, I don't think they'd be willing to spend fifteen hundred a gun to make it full auto"

"Well that makes it tough because to do that I'd need about fifteen thousand - per gun"

"Oh pfft, they're not gonna want a legal one. So you still wanna do it?"

Did that answer your question OP?

Steve C
July 19, 2011, 02:57 AM
How do people with illegal full auto weapons get caught?

People who ignore gun laws generally ignore most other laws that don't suit them too. So when they get picked up for narcotics, theft, and other crimes their guns get rounded up and checked.

Growing up I lived in a relatively small community that was adjacent to the State Capitol. At that time my town had about 7K, there was about 24K in the capital city and 14K in another adjoining town. The town chief of police was one of my neighbors and talking to him one time about guns he said that they picked up a fully auto about once a month. Most of them he noted where stolen from the military or national guard armories. He also commented that there was probably 10 illegal FA's out there for every one legal one.

sarduy
July 19, 2011, 06:14 AM
this reminds me of a day at a local gun range, which a lot of police use. I was shooting my ak74 while i decide to practice bump fire from the shoulder after i finish my first mag,a cop next to me just ask "is that auto?" so i quickly reply with a smile on my face "nop... just bumpfire" and that was it...

hq
July 19, 2011, 06:33 AM
I thought it funny how the neighbors were cool with fully automatic gun fire, but called the cops for rock'n'roll music!

I used to get that a lot. When my neighbors hear anything going full auto, they're likely to show up and ask if they can shoot too. They're totally cool with it, but every time I drag the large speakers out for an evening BBQ, sooner or later someone's bound to call the cops. I'm getting a bit old to have loud late-night parties so frequent visits by the cops are pretty much a thing of the past.

Then again, having legal full auto guns just might be a way to get away with illegal ones as long as firing has only been heard and not seen... Definitely not worth the risk, of course.

M-Cameron
July 19, 2011, 06:59 AM
This raises another question for me...
why would anyone call the police if they saw someone shooting at a rifle range, or heard gunfire in the woods? Mind your own.

It can really depend on location......

like said before, the sound of gun shots can travel pretty far.....and depending on conditions, they might still sound very clear several miles off.....


so someone may very well be legally shooting in the woods.......but a few miles in any direction may be a suburb or a city, where sound of gunfire arent common(hopefully).....

Shear_stress
July 19, 2011, 07:41 AM
How do people with illegal full auto weapons get caught?

I'd wager the majority of people get caught trying to sell their homebrewed project to an undercover agent.

What's more interesting to me is just how few illegal full auto weapons there seem to be out there in this country.

Bubbles
July 19, 2011, 09:55 AM
People get caught because they run their mouths, they take the stuff out in public, or they draw attention to themselves for something else (e.g. traffic infraction, drug bust, DV, etc) and the subsequent investigation turns up the illegal gun.

au01st
July 19, 2011, 10:29 AM
Few guys showed up at the range with an AR-15 and one of those SlideFire stocks. They ran through 100rds in about 5 minutes, got back in their truck, and left. 10 minutes later, two ranger trucks showed up (range is in a state park), parked for a few minutes and watched. It was only my friend and I at this point shooting our pistols. The rangers didn't get out of their vehicles, but after it became apparent that it was not us, they backed out and left.

ccsniper
July 19, 2011, 11:33 AM
Growing up I lived in a relatively small community that was adjacent to the State Capitol. At that time my town had about 7K, there was about 24K in the capital city and 14K in another adjoining town. The town chief of police was one of my neighbors and talking to him one time about guns he said that they picked up a fully auto about once a month. Most of them he noted where stolen from the military or national guard armories. He also commented that there was probably 10 illegal FA's out there for every one legal one.

Not that I don't believe you, but I don't believe that chief of police. Picking up a FA once a month? Stolen from the military? In a town with less than 50,000? My Town has nearly 100,000 and running into FA's is almost unheard of. He was pulling one on you. Stealing a gun from the military is not as simple as the movies make it out to be either.

JustinJ
July 19, 2011, 05:47 PM
I would guess that most are discovered during encounters with LE for unrelated issues.

Having an illegal one is kind of pointless given there are no times you can really use it. Shooting a home invader with an illegal full auto is obviously not a good idea and it would be too risky to shoot outside. If the world collapses just convert one then.

dovedescending
July 19, 2011, 06:35 PM
If the world collapses just convert one then.

Assuming of course that a fully automatic weapon would even be necessary. Wars, revolutions, and various other degrees and types of conflict have been fought very effectively with non-FA guns for centuries now. And if ammo becomes a little scarce during said theoretical conflict, well, FA would be downright wasteful :) But I digress.

Is there a database or listing of high-profile FA seizures anywhere? I'd be curious to know exactly what percentage of confiscated arms are FA or NFA.

ccsniper
July 19, 2011, 08:11 PM
Is there a database or listing of high-profile FA seizures anywhere? I'd be curious to know exactly what percentage of confiscated arms are FA or NFA.

Couldn't find one, but did find this
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html

FIVETWOSEVEN
July 19, 2011, 09:21 PM
Heard two stories here actually, one was a guy in california that showed up to a public range with a full auto AK 47 and let loose with it. Another one was some guy with a SKS that fired fully auto probably due to a stuck firing pin and didn't want to change it because he liked it that way.

jmorris
July 19, 2011, 09:41 PM
Good question and an easy answer.

1. People who break the law tend to hang around other that do or are shuned for doing so.

2. People who break laws get caught at some point.

3. Once caught, it is common for law breakers to implicate others so they don't have to serve the time they should.


Your other question.

SBS or SBR is easy to see, full auto is not. More than a few LEO's have handled firearms that I have and had no clue why I needed "special" papers for them. For good or bad many that might need to rely on a firearm for their job know little about them but many jobs exist where people don't really understand what they are doing. Further it would be pretty easy to convert many semi to full autos back to semi state for travel, not so if you have cut a barrel.


In the end, if you have something to loose you will. It's only money.

wideym
July 19, 2011, 10:22 PM
There's always people like Harold Finch of the Northwest Arkansas Milita, who sent registered letters to the Arkansas AG, Govenor, and other agencies telling them of the illegality of NFA registery and that his group were building full auto stens and 1919s for "Milita use only".

He also had vids on the internet of him and his group firing the same full auto weapons. Eventually the Feds got tired of his rantings and arrested him. He of course was conviced and sentenced to prison, but I can't remember the particular charge or lenth of sentence.

The-Reaver
July 19, 2011, 10:45 PM
Loose lips sink ships.

Roland75
July 20, 2011, 12:40 AM
I hear auto fire in the distance from time to time on the public land I shoot on, and feel a tinge of envy as I don't have the money to pacify the bureaucrats and their unconstitutional tax laws to enjoy the same privelege. Calling the police has never even crossed my mind.

Recently a law was passed outlawing fireworks here. You'd be surprised at the number of neighbors who sit near their phones itching to report their neighbors for shooting off a bottle rocket on the Fourth of July.

"One nation of State Informants, under God..."

shiftyer1
July 20, 2011, 12:55 AM
I would believe short barreled shotguns are far more common than full auto. Hell it's hard enough to feed a regular rifle than a full auto rifle. Although I know someone around here either has something full auto or knows someone who does. Legal or not I have no idea as it's none of my business and it's far enough off that it's probably not a danger to me. Although it sure perked my ears up, hadn't heard that sound since I was a teenager.

Oh by the way....they get caught because they run their mouths, have nosey neighbors or it's found as a result of another charge.

medalguy
July 20, 2011, 01:11 AM
A few years ago a friend and I took my .50 BMG out onto public land to shoot one afternoon. A .50 is pretty loud and the sound carries a long way. Anyway we had been out there about half an hour, and we saw a pickup pull up to the edge of the field where we were shooting. We watched the truck a few minutes to see where they were going. (They were behind us). After seeing several people get out and stand by the truck a few minutes, and seeing that a couple of the people were small (kids) we waved to the people, they waved back, and we indicated that hey should come up to where we were.

They did drive up to where we had the guns set up and got out and asked what we were shooting. I had a .50 BMG, a .30 BMG, and a DP-28 set up to shoot. I showed them the weapons and asked the kids if they would like to pull the trigger on the tripod mounted .50 and they eagerly said yes. We let them fire 2 or 3 rounds each, gave them the brass, and let them watch while we finished shooting the guns.

I would guess that most illegal guns are discovered when someone shoots them, or as indicated earlier, when interacting with LEO's on other issues.

mgregg85
July 20, 2011, 01:46 AM
Some of the things I hear just amaze me. I have one co-worker in particular who has bragged about continuing to CCW when he drove down to Mexico, he said he just kept his P11 in his pocket and didn't say anything to the Border Patrol.

He also recently talked about going to a knob creek style machine gun shoot so he could learn how to modify his WASR to fire in full auto. I told him that I really doubted anyone there would be willing to help as it would mean a nice long stay in a federal penitentiary and he just scoffed at me.

Now this guy isn't dumb, maybe ignorant of the laws or just naive. I'm waiting for the day that he doesn't show up for work because he is in jail awaiting trial.

shiftyer1
July 20, 2011, 02:22 AM
To be honest....if I were inclined to go to mexico these days i'd probably take something with me also. It definately isn't a place to go to party anymore!

CapnMac
July 20, 2011, 04:13 AM
All this makes me wonder if there are any convictions of NFA on the books.

There's probably a way to search it out. I remember see a summary of all the AWB charges in its decade being about 18 arrests, 5 arraignments and 1 plea-bargained conviction. But, I could be remembering it wrong, too.

We who are law-abiding tend to be very much so.

Deltaboy
July 20, 2011, 08:41 AM
They get in trouble with the law otherwise or run off at the mouth.

jmorris
July 20, 2011, 09:27 AM
All this makes me wonder if there are any convictions of NFA on the books.

Really? Ruby ridge and Waco are two of the larger cases.

Quiet
July 20, 2011, 09:48 AM
How do they get caught?
... For being stupid and doing something illegal.

Case in point...
A guy, in Henderson NV, was arrested for shooting his AK during New Year's Eve festivities. When Henderson PD showed up, the guy admitted to shooting a 12 round burst from his AK. They confiscated his AK and arrested him for discharging of a firearm in/upon a public street (state misdemeanor) [NRS 202.280]. Upon examination, the local LEOs wanted to confirm that the AK was MG and called in the BATFE for assistance. About 6 months later, BATFE agents arrested the guy for possessing an unregistered MG (Federal felony).

JustinJ
July 20, 2011, 11:00 AM
If you won't go into mexico without a gun dont go at all. Just having a bullet can get you thrown in a mexican prison for a looong time. And mexico searches cars and people coming into their country just as we do. I can't even begin to describe how foolish it would be to take a gun into mexico.

zoom6zoom
July 20, 2011, 11:30 AM
1. People who break the law tend to hang around other that do or are shuned for doing so.
...and as they say, "no honor among thieves." If you're on the hook for a few felonies, wouldn't you try for a deal by narcing out your "buddy" who's got a few pieces of unregistered hardware?

Mike1234567
July 20, 2011, 12:08 PM
As JustinJ wrote, having to use an illegally modified weapon in a SD scenario is just about the worst possible situation. Not to criticise but, frankly, I don't fully understand the point of this thread. We all know no one here is going to illegally modify any fireams, right?
:confused::uhoh:

Zundfolge
July 20, 2011, 02:11 PM
So a corollary question would be to those of you with properly registered NFA goodies.

Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?

If so; What were the circumstances?

chrt396
July 20, 2011, 02:47 PM
If you can't brag about what you have...why own it?

mike288190
July 20, 2011, 03:36 PM
if an ar is full auto the reciever will have a sear pin above the fire safety selector.... kinda hard to hide that if the inspector knows anything about the mechanical operation of the firearm... if it doesnt have the sear and appropriate trigger parts then its not full auto...

kingpin008
July 20, 2011, 03:40 PM
If you can't brag about what you have...why own it?

If what you have is illegal, why flaunt it?

Point4orLarger
July 20, 2011, 03:58 PM
Well, mebbe. Among some others, the L.Loader requires no sear-pin. Here is a "suppose this happened to you" scenario: Novice gun-dude during a garage-sale week-end finds an oily but looking mildly complete, SKS original furniture, buys it and takes it home to clean up and shoot with. In the cleaning-kit burrow he finds and extracts a medicine vial with a sort of two-way key-ring-thingie, and Novice finds that it seems to fit into a unique key-hole machined under the action, 1-in ahead of the trigger-guard. He turns key both ways. "Hmmmm, I wonder what it's for." He finds that it turns ON / OFF a function better-known as FULL-AUTO. Delighted but alarmed, Novice brings the tools to his favorite go-to gun-guy who replicates the FULL-AUO function, and is also delighted but even more alarmed, and a bit fearful. I know both of these fellows. I become intimately aware of the situation, by proving it to myself. What do we do, whom do we tell, or just delete this post??? My lips are sealed.

Danb1215
July 20, 2011, 04:06 PM
As JustinJ wrote, having to use an illegally modified weapon in a SD scenario is just about the worst possible situation. Not to criticise but, frankly, I don't fully understand the point of this thread. We all know no one here is going to illegally modify any fireams, right?
:confused::uhoh:
As stated in the OP this thread is in no way meant to encourage anything criminal. The title is how do they get caught, not how to get away with it.
My point was simply: An SBR, SBS is almost impossible to miss if you're paying attention, where as most converted autos aren't going to be noticed unless they are fired, or a serious internal inspection is done. For every one case I've heard of with an unregistered MG I've heard of 10 with an unregistered SBS. My question was is this the case because it is much easier to take a saw to a shotgun barrel than to convert a semi auto, or is it because modified autos are frequently overlooked as just another semi. And of course I wanted to hear about cases like the geniuses firing FA into the air on new years, because I imagined thats how one is getting the charge.

ny32182
July 20, 2011, 04:07 PM
Every single time I ever read of someone charged with NFA violations, it is a pile-on charge in addition to other crimes that originally got the attention of the authorities, such as gang-related violence, drug trafficing, etc.

kingpin008
July 20, 2011, 06:27 PM
Really? Ruby ridge and Waco are two of the larger cases.

He said convictions. There were never any convictions connected to NFA weapons in the Waco incident. In fact, there was never proof that any NFA weapons were involved. The entire saga was triggered by allegations of child abuse and the delivery of inert grenade hulls to the compound.

.45FMJoe
July 20, 2011, 06:29 PM
Some of the things I hear just amaze me. I have one co-worker in particular who has bragged about continuing to CCW when he drove down to Mexico, he said he just kept his P11 in his pocket and didn't say anything to the Border Patrol.

He also recently talked about going to a knob creek style machine gun shoot so he could learn how to modify his WASR to fire in full auto. I told him that I really doubted anyone there would be willing to help as it would mean a nice long stay in a federal penitentiary and he just scoffed at me.

Now this guy isn't dumb, maybe ignorant of the laws or just naive. I'm waiting for the day that he doesn't show up for work because he is in jail awaiting trial.
So he's a U.S. citizen and he crosses out of and into the U.S. illegally? That's weird. You know, if he's a U.S. citizen he can legally re-enter through any of the ports of entry along the border.

Strange indeed.

Cop Bob
July 20, 2011, 07:28 PM
So a corollary question would be to those of you with properly registered NFA goodies.

Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?

If so; What were the circumstances?

I have.. We were at my place in the country,set up about 1/2 mile off the county road, and, 3/4 mile of a US hwy... Had an MG-42, M-16, MP-40, and an AR-180.. having a grand old time.. tearing up a creek bed.

After a bit, we heard a horn honking.. looked around and about 200 yards off there was a Blazer with a Game Warden emblem on the door. One lone warden standing on the opposite side of the truck waving his hat... (he was being a bit cautious, and I don;t fault im one little bit there) we stood up, (prone on the MG42) and waved him over... All of us being LEO our selves, stepped well away from the guns, that were laid out on several mats on the ground.. From there is got comical.

He asked us. " Ah, you boys ain't huntin nuthin with them are you? " No-Sir, just killin some cans." there were cans and plastic bottles shredded all over the creek bank. "Do you boys have permission to be on this property?" .."Yes Sir, I'm the owner." "I thought this place belonged to a widder (that's E-Texan for widow) woman in town." Ah Yes sir, that would have been my Grandmother, she passed in April. It was passed down to me."
"Are those real machine guns?" "Yes Sir, as real as it gets." "Are they Legal?" "They certainly are, the Tax Stamps are in our wallets, I will gladly show them to you."

At this time we all pulled out our wallets (three of us) and produced our Police ID's as well as laminated miniature copies of the the Tax Stamps, as well as a Copy of my class 3 FFL.. "Oh Hell, why didn't yall say you were cops?" "You didn't ask, besides were not gonna arrest anybody." He chuckled, stated that he had never seen that kind of paperwork before... Then he asked if he could shoot one.. We let him shoot them all... He had a blast.... I thought that it was funny, the first two questions he asked were not related to anything but his area of LE,, Game laws... We, the Game Warden and I, remained friends for about 6 or 7 years until he retired... He would drop by if the gate was open.

In regard to loose lips... I had been a cop for 30 years, two different agencies in a large metro area.. I have closed the cell door on literally 1000's of people, some bad, same real bad, many just good people with a moment (or two) of bad judgment.. I would venture to say, that about 98.5% of them arrested themselves. They just didn't have ANY idea when to shut up... Ron White said it best... You Just can't fix Stupid.

As far as Illegal NFA weapon that I have come across in 30 years, only one FA, more than a few short barrel shotguns or what I think was even more common, is sawed off rifles, mostly 22's.. in rough minority neighborhoods.. many of them came back as stolen in residential burglaries... one I particularly remember was a beautiful Browning Citori shotgun, looked like a presentation grade, over and under, that some Dumb thief took a hack saw too... I almost cried.... When I was at the range, many years ago, all the weapons that went through the property room, the range personnel would cull through them and strip parts that could be used to repair officers guns. This was done just before a burn, we got to see everything. back then even what today would be termed an assault rifle was rare.. Today Black guns, AK's and SKS's are a bit more prevalent, but not near what the media would have you believe.. I have never seen data on this published by ATF.. probably because the stats won't support their position..

Bubbles
July 20, 2011, 08:01 PM
Ron White said it best... You Just can't fix Stupid.
I had the right to remain silent... but I didn't have the ability.
;)

kingpin008
July 20, 2011, 08:41 PM
But do they call ya 'Tater Salad? :D

jmorris
July 20, 2011, 09:32 PM
So a corollary question would be to those of you with properly registered NFA goodies.

Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?


If so; What were the circumstances?


I have twice. Both were LEO and the Chief wouldn't sign for them. They wanted to know how I made it happen. Fixed one of them up with a trust.

Have had a few MG shoots that I figured someone would want to know what is going on (5+ hours of FA and tannerite), nothing.

medalguy
July 20, 2011, 09:37 PM
Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?


Never in more than 47 years.

CapnMac
July 20, 2011, 11:09 PM
Thank you Kingpin for making that clarification for me.

What I've seen is that, when Cleetus and his buddies Spud an' Tater are discovered in a motel room stepping on product, and there's also an NFA violation, the local prosecutor is going to push ahead on the possession with intent/trafficking charge he can make, rather than wait however long it takes for an AUSA to decide to docket one case.

By the time a raid occurs, there are other, "more serious" charges to arraign for. Which rather moots the point of NFA (or the Vile Amendment in FOPA).

pjlaw1
July 21, 2011, 12:42 AM
Letting other people shoot it.
Brag about it.
Try and sell it.
Talking about how to make one.

I have been trying to get my wife to let me buy land and move out to the country. Any advice?

paul
July 21, 2011, 09:31 AM
I have been trying to get my wife to let me buy land and move out to the country. Any advice?

Wife and I moved "out" +/- 5yrs ago...
Was a bit traumatic for her at first, missed being able to walk ten steps to visit friendly neighbors...

She has since informed me that she's keeping the house if she has to "fire" me.

There's something about being able to shoot in the "yard", suit-optional swimming and sun bathing; deer, 'dillos, 'coons, and the occasional bobcat or bald eagle hanging around that she finds attractive...:D

The migratory songbird population is also pretty amazing here, less than a mile from Brazos Bend State Park.

And, no, I've never had local LE stop by to ask what we're shooting.
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx265/TXPaulie/SPIDERCREEK1.jpg

p

jmorris
July 21, 2011, 09:42 AM
I have been trying to get my wife to let me buy land and move out to the country. Any advice?

A little drift but I did it the easy way. She was the one that wanted to move, I simply put in a few specs and let her find the ones we would look at. Anyway to make it "her" idea makes is super easy.

Cop Bob
July 21, 2011, 10:44 AM
There was an agreement made many years ago between ALL the chiefs, Constables, and the Sheriff in our area that they would sign NO NFA papers for anyone, even their own officers... When we got turned down by our Chief, we went to a Federal Judge.. he was glad to sign... Then we later circumvented the whole deal by obtaining a Class 3 FFL.

These days, it is customary that the Chiefs and some of the Sheriffs in outlying counties initially reject the letter.. In keeping with their agreement... You return later with a demand letter on a law firms letterhead, ( supplied by the dealer handling the transfer from what I am told) stating that the purchaser was being denied a Constitutionally legal right. They then sign the letter.. According to a couple of buds who have bought lately. One stated his Sheriff asked him why it took a month to get back with the letter, and smiled when he signed... All a game...

S.W.G.
July 21, 2011, 07:55 PM
What do we do, whom do we tell, or just delete this post???

I've actually read the manual for that conversion. Interesting.

Anyway, your friend has a few options -

Option 1: Turn it in. He probably wouldn't have any problems surrendering the gun, but you never know if some ATF agent trying to justify the existence of his job might pounce on him and try to send him to jail. He might not want to take that risk.

Option 2: Destroy it. Strip any useful parts from the receiver. Take the receiver, the stripped trigger group, and any parts that were used in the conversion and destroy them. Crush them, melt them, torch cut them etc. This is technically considered destruction of evidence, but if he can trust you and his 'go-to gun-guy' to stay quiet, this may be the most attractive option.

Option 3: NOT RECOMMENDED. Keep it. If your friend doesn't understand the severity of the law or doesn't care, the best you can do is try to convince him to keep it on the down-low. Don't tell people, don't shoot it in public, etc. If you can't convince him to do so, delete him from your contact list and STAY AWAY.

Diginanda
July 21, 2011, 09:19 PM
Great answer! You must have great sources to make a profit at $15k. Decent transferrable lowers are commanding just about that now. Let's get rid of that damned (and illegal) Hughes Amendment in 2013. The extremely high prices will only get worse as the demand for pre 1986 weapons increases.

goste
July 21, 2011, 09:43 PM
"Although I know someone around here either has something full auto or knows someone who does. Legal or not I have no idea as it's none of my business and it's far enough off that it's probably not a danger to me. Although it sure perked my ears up, hadn't heard that sound since I was a teenager."

If your in my part of Cen.Tex., (B'Wood), It may be me....

"Have you ever had anyone in Law Enforcement ask to see your tax stamp?


Only once. I had a bad experience at our local range, and a couple Bubbas called the cop's."........

jmorris
July 21, 2011, 10:13 PM
There was an agreement made many years ago between ALL the chiefs, Constables, and the Sheriff in our area that they would sign NO NFA papers for anyone, even their own officers... When we got turned down by our Chief, we went to a Federal Judge.. he was glad to sign... Then we later circumvented the whole deal by obtaining a Class 3 FFL.


These days, it is customary that the Chiefs and some of the Sheriffs in outlying counties initially reject the letter.. In keeping with their agreement... You return later with a demand letter on a law firms letterhead, ( supplied by the dealer handling the transfer from what I am told) stating that the purchaser was being denied a Constitutionally legal right. They then sign the letter.. According to a couple of buds who have bought lately. One stated his Sheriff asked him why it took a month to get back with the letter, and smiled when he signed... All a game...


My problem for years. Went with a trust and never looked back.

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