ID this bullet


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jgiehl
July 19, 2011, 07:57 AM
Backstory:
Guy I work with had these given to him by a reloader of unknown competence (Don't know who the guy is). Told him, "Here these outta work in your gun."
He hasn't shot them because he doesn't know what they are.
Told him I'd take a look. It's a 44 Rem. Mag. Haven't pulled it apart but the round weighs 442 grains and an empty R-P brass I have on hand with primer weighs 113.5 grains leaving 327.4 grains left unaccounted. COAL is 1.667.

Any ideas????
Help would be good and appreciated.



http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n568/jcgiehl/DSC_0005.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n568/jcgiehl/DSC_0004.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n568/jcgiehl/DSC_0002.jpg

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loadedround
July 19, 2011, 09:34 AM
What caliber is that round. Pic looks like a 45 Colt, but there is nothing to reference size. That bullet weight makes me think it's a 45-70 head. In my forty some years of reloading and shooting, have never seen a round like that.

jgiehl
July 19, 2011, 09:47 AM
Sorry, it's a .44 Rem. Mag.
I edited original post.

To me it does look like a rifle big bore bullet. Jacketed bullet with the lead like that makes me think dangerous game bullet but I couldn't find anything about it. My google-fu is weak :(

nastynatesfish
July 19, 2011, 03:53 PM
kinda looks like the oryx protected point rifle bullets...probally just an old deep penetration hunting bullet. pull it and weight it, probally a 260 gr or so

janobles14
July 20, 2011, 12:08 AM
kinda looks like the oryx protected point rifle bullets...probally just an old deep penetration hunting bullet. pull it and weight it, probally a 260 gr or so


i would agree except that i have never seen a oryx pp in a pistol bullet (edit: i actually see where you said this now! sorry! my "reading fu" is weaker than anyones google fu! :)), especially a RN. i truly have no idea what brand of bullet that is. i would agree, however, that you should simply pull one a weigh it. use relevant data for that weight. i would also weigh the powder charge to make sure some crazy person didnt load these for dinosaurs or mammoth hunting.

psyshack
July 20, 2011, 01:10 AM
That bullet looks just like bullets a very dear friend of mine's father use to make.

Mr. Sherod use to own a old school roofing company that did pretty much only copper roofs, guttering, sky lights and such. Only old world craft would do.

Anyway with a ready supply of copper and lead of all kinds, he made bullets in his spare time. He would make copper tubing to his spec. Cap one end with a small pin hole in it. Then braze a simple twist fit fitting of some sort on the other. He would then put the tube in a heater or furnace of some sort hanging down in the heat source. He would get the tube hot then flux the inside some how. Then poor his alloy. He then pulled the tube and put a mating fitting to the one he brazed on the tube and put hydraulic pressure on it and let cool. Couldn't of been to much pressure. But it was enough to make the dia. of the tube get larger by .020 or .030. The tubes were 5' to 8' long.

Once he had his lead copper tubes made and cooled down he would roll them to perfect dia. in a three roller rotating press. He had a very old french made lathe from the 1860's, belt driven with a center quick release chuck on it. He would feed the copper lead filled tubes into the hole chuck drive shaft and support the martial with pipe support. The chuck had leather caps on it to keep from scaring the copper.

He would feed in the tube. Lock the chuck, cut off the cap and face off the bottom of the first bullet. Then he would flip up a stop on his tool holder. Feed the tube in until it touched the stop, lock the chuck then flip up a device that looked like a copper pipe cutter. Except the cutting dies rounded twords the inside of the dies giving the bullet its rounded look as he cranked on the handle. Sort of a pinch and role as the lathe was running. Bullet would drop off into a pan. He then fed the stock again the the stop then straight cut the back of the next bullet. Then two bullets in the pan.

Once he had all the bullets he wanted he took them to a old looking press. He would drop a bullet down in a hole push a 3' lever down. Then push it up and the bullet would drop out of the bottom of the press. The finished bullet would then have a crimp band and the bottom of the bullet would have a slight roll over if not a boat tail.

If these bullets were to be hunting or target rounds he would set down at a old counterbalance scale and weight them. If they weighted to much he would take a hand held little scoop tool and take alloy off the bottom side of the bullet to make it weigh perfect.

I am not saying in any, way, shape or forum this is one of his bullets. But those pictures did bring back some old memory's. His bullets looked just like that. :)

jgiehl
July 21, 2011, 06:46 PM
Finally pulled bullet apart.

Powder charge: 19.5 grains of H-110 I hope
Bullet weight: 305 grains

Lead core running the length of the bullet.

Thanks again.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n568/jcgiehl/DSC_0003-2.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n568/jcgiehl/DSC_0001-2.jpg

jgiehl
July 27, 2011, 07:44 AM
Nobody?
Anybody?

Afy
July 27, 2011, 08:02 AM
Those are a very early design for expanding bullets. Have seem simillar ones on old BP cartridges, typically the big bores.

Jim Watson
July 27, 2011, 06:33 PM
Open ends and odd weight look like somethng homemade out of copper tubing.
Bullet swaging dies are now pretty high dollar items but there used to be some entry level stuff available for simple stuff like this.

Gadzooks Mike
July 27, 2011, 11:42 PM
psyshack - That was the most interesting post I've read in quite awhile. Thank you for sharing that!

bfoosh006
July 28, 2011, 01:17 AM
You might try contacting Barnes Bullets... they got their start by making bullets like that... ( copper tubing.. )

jgiehl
July 28, 2011, 08:14 AM
Sent some pictures to Barnes and hope they'll answer back.
Thank you guys for the help it is very appreciated.

Rollis R. Karvellis
July 28, 2011, 07:30 PM
My money is on the copper tubing, home swaged bullets. If the jacket was made with cartridge brass there would still be the extracter grove present.

jgiehl
August 2, 2011, 07:40 PM
Like I said I sent some pictures to Barnes and here's what I got back.
Thanks again everyone.

Hi Jeremiah,

That looks like a Barnes Original but I don’t have any record of it dating back to 1982. I know there were some “custom” runs made and I suspect this is one of them.

Thanks, Ty

Ty Herring | Consumer Service - Lead Tech
Barnes Bullets, LLC

tmanbuckhunter
August 2, 2011, 07:47 PM
I was going to say that it looked like an old peters soft point but it appears you have found the identity of it. :)

Ol` Joe
August 2, 2011, 11:28 PM
Try contacting Hawk bullets. They made bullets with pure copper tube jackets and soft lead cores, still do IIRC

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