RCBS "'" Green Machine ""


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alca
July 19, 2011, 07:27 AM
Hi, I,m looking for a progressive press Green Machine mounted for the 9 mm.
I know it's rare but i'm asking in case or.............
Thank you

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loadedround
July 19, 2011, 08:17 AM
Go Dillon Blue and get the best!

longdayjake
July 19, 2011, 10:35 AM
Or just get what you want and be just as happy.

DM~
July 19, 2011, 12:14 PM
I have a Green Machine, (38/357) bought it new many years ago. It looks cool, but it's a FAR from a trouble free machine to run. Perhaps you have already run one, and know this?

DM

roc1
July 19, 2011, 12:28 PM
Worst machine RCBS ever made. Sell it and run away and get the Hornady or Dillon or new RCBS may be good have no experience with it.
roc1

Funshooter45
July 19, 2011, 12:37 PM
I have noticed them from time to time when I have checked on ebay. I don't know anything about them except they are kinda weird looking contraptions.

Joatmon
July 19, 2011, 09:45 PM
As the saying goes; Be careful what you wish for. I have one in 38 spl, barely used. The priming system is prone to have problems. I have known of a couple of folks that have replaced this part with a conventional primer tube w/feeder, with some success. I did not bother. They do look unique but they are complicated and finicky machines. Getting straighline loaders to work properly is not trivial. If you are fixed on a straightline, the old CH AutoChamps were supposed to work OK. What can I say, I like funky old stuff too. Good luck.

Kevin Rohrer
July 19, 2011, 11:36 PM
Straightline loaders have never done well. RCBS couldn't perfect the Green Machine, CH's Autochamp wasn't 100% perfect (although the later versions are supposed to be pretty good) , and RDP's The Tool was too expensive to make. PW's P200 and Metallic 2 are kind of straightline reloaders, but they aren't automated enough to suit me. I am not 100% happy w/ rotary loaders like the Dillon.

I'd love to have a straightline loader that works.

Who wants to build a better mousetrap?!:)

DM~
July 20, 2011, 09:25 AM
Well, i have a C-H AutoChamp too... lol It does run smoother than the green machine, but it takes some tinkering and you have to pay attention to what's going on...

RCBS offered to buy back the GM's, if anyone wasn't happy. I bet they bought a lot of them back. lol

DM

fecmech
July 20, 2011, 10:58 PM
I have 2 Auto Champs a Mark 3 and a 5A. They require a little love from time to time and are happiest with people who are mechanically inclined. I've had the mark 3 since about 1975 and bought the 5A about 5 years ago, I like them. I turned down a gift Green Machine!

Kevin Rohrer
July 20, 2011, 11:29 PM
Fecmech:

What are the differences between your two models?

And what problems have you had w/ the 5A?

Kevin Rohrer
July 20, 2011, 11:30 PM
Has anyone heard of a company currently making a straightline press?

fecmech
July 21, 2011, 10:04 AM
Kevin--the main difference between the two is the priming tube location. On the Mark 3 it's in the center of the bottom rail and a little in the way when placing a bullet on the case, not that big of a deal really once you get used to it. The 5a mounts the tube on the upper platten so there is nothing in the way when placing the bullet on the case, a definite improvement. The initial setup of the case locating rail and primer feed are the keys to trouble free operation. They are sturdy machines, the Mark 3 has loaded well over 100K rds to date, I like the 5a better because of less interference with bullet seating. One quirk of straight line machines is some minor powder wash out when the advance bar slides back under the cases. This doesn't happen much with target loads, just those with higher powder levels. You solve this by simply placing your finger over the powdered case as the bar retracts, no biggie. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined and don't want to go the Dillon route look into the Auto Champs if you can find one. I have the manual in PDF file and if you get one would be happy to send it to you.

Top picture is the Mark 3 (no I do not load without the primer shield tube in place!). Bottom pic is the Mark 5a

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll80/fecmech/Dscn0874.jpg
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll80/fecmech/Dscn0873.jpghttp://

Bush Pilot
July 21, 2011, 11:28 AM
I have a friend who is a very talented tinkerer with a lot a patience and loves a challenge when it comes to guns, reloading equipment and related things. He won't touch a Green Machine with a 10 ft pole. Good enough for me.

Jim Watson
July 21, 2011, 11:43 AM
I guess if you want a Green Machine it is OK to look for one.

I have a Mk IV AutoCHamp .38 Special. The straightline case advance is finicky to keep clean and adjusted and the cam operated powder measure will deliver powder whether there is a case there to take it or not. The primer feed is simple and reliable. Pity that Dillon et al did not study it. I did pop a primer on it once but that was because I did not notice that the case advance had come up short and the primer sheared across the edge of the pocket. No fault in the primer feed itself.
On the whole, the next run I make of .38s will probably be on the Dillon.

I read an article years ago about the prototype Ransom straightline progressive. It looked like a piece of jewelry with loading dies. Naturally a handbuilt prototype furnished to a gunwriter ran like a champ.

Kevin, I thought The Tool from RDP was a big rotary. Or am I thinking of another machine? All I know about The Tool was in one article in Handloader's Digest.

Kevin Rohrer
July 21, 2011, 12:59 PM
Kevin, I thought The Tool from RDP was a big rotary. Or am I thinking of another machine? All I know about The Tool was in one article in Handloader's Digest.

You are correct. I saw a couple of them last year but forgot what they looked like. I wouldn't mind having one.

Joatmon
July 21, 2011, 10:09 PM
The only other "recent" straightline that I can think of was the Camdex JS63, a junior version of the 2100 series. Still quite expensive back in the day, I dont think they have been made for 15-20 years. Had about 8 stations and could be had motorized or run by hand. The RDP loaders were rotary presses and built like tanks. Unfortunately they could not compete with Dillons prices. Built with the precision of a Star, they were 3 times heavier.

Kevin Rohrer
July 22, 2011, 01:16 AM
The RDP loaders were rotary presses and built like tanks. Unfortunately they could not compete with Dillons prices. Built with the precision of a Star, they were 3 times heavier.

I know where there are two, one is a single handle and the other is a dual-handle. Am toying w/ the idea of picking both of them up. Spare parts and/or accessories might be a problem.

Or I could just buy a 5A. And I would be back to the problem of spare parts and accessories.

Kevin Rohrer
July 22, 2011, 01:20 AM
Fecmech:

How tough is it to change calibers w/ the Auto Champ? I would be loading .45ACP and 38/357.

And how does it measure out powder? I have been doing some reading and saw a message from someone who says he has a non-functional 5A due to a broken "powder collet". How easy is it to convert an Auto Champ to some other type of powder measure?

Joatmon
July 22, 2011, 11:59 PM
Kevin, The powder measure on the AutoCHamp is really a nice simple design. The powder slide holds a bushing that drops a measured charge, and there are a lot of bushings that you can change out. It is a simple back and forth motion, from the powder measure to the drop tube. You can buy all the bushings and the entire assembly new from CH4D if you need to, I picked up a couple of bushings from them a while back. It is basically the same measure that is on the 444 or the older 333 pistol Champ. They show up on line too.

fecmech
July 23, 2011, 01:56 PM
How tough is it to change calibers w/ the Auto Champ? I would be loading .45ACP and 38/357.

Changing between .45 and .38/.357 requires the rails be changed and the priming punch and carrier slide and feed tube( obviously dies and expander). On a Mark III about an hour.
On the Auto Champs all auto cartridges take one set of rails and all rimmed cartridges take another set. A quick way to set the spacing on the rails is to use a unprimed cartridge with the priming punch up in the hole. Then push your outer rail up to touch the cartridge, make sure the rail is straight and tighten the bolts. That lines the case up to be primed which is on of the 2 critical steps. The other is the bar that carries the primer from the tube to the rail. It should be adjusted so that when it's fully extended it goes just a hair past the hole that the primers drop through from the tube. Make those adjustments right and it will run great. I'm fortunate in having 2 machines so one is set up for .38/.357 all the time and the other for .45 auto and occasionally .380 auto.

Kevin Rohrer
July 23, 2011, 11:29 PM
For those who want to read-up on all the old, straightline and rotary presses, Handloader Digest #9 (1981) has two excellent articles by Ken Waters on them. The articles mention and show presses I have never heard of.

Offfhand
July 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
During my years (decades) of reloading I've tried just about every make and model of loading tool and the best progressive tool by far has been the Schell Loader.They are rather massive and work on a very positive "box square" straight-line feed. Everything is auto, including bullet feed. Among the beautiful features of the Schell Loader, in addition to brilliant design, is many parts being made of beryllium copper. Which of course makes them more expensive but contributes to the their flawless lifetime function. I've used two of these tools over 20 years and have yet to have any problems or need to replace parts. Which has more than offset the initial higher price. Needless to say, I happily disposed of my other progressive tools after getting the Schells and haven't looked back. I'll try to attach a photo for those who may be unfamiliar with the make.

Kevin Rohrer
July 24, 2011, 03:24 PM
re: Schell

How hard is it to change calibers?

So where do I get one? :)

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