Most Widely Available Affordable Popular Handgun Ammo in Europe?


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DonNikmare
January 20, 2004, 01:41 AM
It seems in the US it's .22, 9mm, .38 special.

What about in Europe? What are the most available, affordable, n popular calibers?

If you can n care do give detail, I'm specifically curious about what would be the equivalent price for say .45, 9mm for 50 rounds?

Is 10mm any more affordable available n popular in Europe than it is in the US?

Does it vary in Eastern vs Western Europe n if so how?

Thanks!
Nik

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Bill Hook
January 20, 2004, 03:01 AM
Guesses would be .22, .32, and 9x19, with 9x21 or 9x17 rounding things out.

trooper
January 20, 2004, 08:41 AM
Lemme just fetch my catalogues... ;)

As for Germany, the most common handgun cartridges in sports shooting are 9mm x 19 (of course :) ), .45 ACP, .38 special, .357 Mag, .44 Mag, .22 lr

Law enforcement agencies use 9mm hollowpoints (usually Dynamit Nobel Action 4), while civilians over here usually aren't allowed to carry.

Real handgun hunting is illegal but most hunters pack a 9mm, .40 SW or .357 Mag to finish off wounded game (which is allowed).

Here are the cheapest regular prices I found so far (50 rounds):

9mm: 9,50 €
.45 ACP: 13,80 €
.38 sp.: 11,- €
.357 Mag: 13,60 €
.44 Mag: 21,- €
.22 lr: 4,- € (100 rounds)
.40 SW: 13,80 €
.357 SIG: 16,- €
.38 Super: 16,- €
10 mm: 31,- €


Regards,

Trooper

Maddock
January 20, 2004, 10:20 PM
Trooper: I did some conversions using 1.257 Euros per $U.S.

9mm: 9,50 € $12.07
.45 ACP: 13,80 € $17.35
.38 sp.: 11,- € $13.83
.357 Mag: 13,60 € $17.10
.44 Mag: 21,- € $26.40
.22 lr: 4,- € (100 rounds) $ 5.03
.40 SW: 13,80 € $17.35
.357 SIG: 16,- € $20.11
.38 Super: 16,- € $20.11
10 mm: 31,- € $38.97

These prices are quite a bit more than I’m used to paying retail and considerably more than mail/internet prices. Even for ammunition from European manufacturers such as Fiocchi and Sellier & Bellot. And that price includes a federal 11% excise tax. Is ammunition subject to a heavy tax burden, beyond VAT (Value Added Tax)?

Some prices from Ammoman.com – by no means the cheapest Internet retailer, but one of the best for customer service. These prices are total, delivered to your door.

9mm Fiocchi $ 8.50 ($85.00/500rds)
.45ACP Fiocchi $11.90($119.00/500rds)
.38spl Federal $ 8.90 ($89.00/500rds)
10mm Federal $14.90($149.00/500rds)

I guess we have it good here in the states, even though I do like to whine.

DonNikmare
January 21, 2004, 01:59 AM
Thank you for the responses n the detailed pricing info. n conversion
European members keep it coming.
Thanks,
Nik

8Balls
January 21, 2004, 04:03 PM
In Finland
.22 2€ (2,5$)
9x19 is quite common. 6,5 € (8,5$)
.40 and .45 costs 15$, but thats just a wild quess.
The prices may seem high, but dollar is dirt cheap right now...

T.Stahl
January 21, 2004, 04:07 PM
I think comparing prices for 50 round boxes is not the best approach. At that level prices of one type of ammo vary a lot from dealer to dealer, while prices are converging when you buy 1,000 round cartons.
At that level the prices are much lower:

Trooper, I guess you took some of the prices out of the same green catalogue that now's lying in front of me. ;)

9mm Para: 134€/168$
.45ACP: 214€/269$
.38Spl: 160€/201$
.357Mag: 208€/261$
.44Mag: 324€/407$
.22lr: 274€/344$ (10,000)
.40*&*: 214€/269$
.357Sig: 226€/284$
.38 Super: 224€/282$
10mm: oops, they no longer have the centimeter. :(

As for the most common calibers, the shooting association my club is affiliated with has handgun disciplines only for the following calibers:
.22lr
.32long
.38Spl (not sure about that one)
9x19
.45ACP
.357Mag
.44Mag
..., which limits the available calibers in the first place.
Judging from what my fellow shooters call their own, I'd guess the most popular calibers are:
1.) 9x19
2.) .357Mag
3.) .45ACP
4.) .44Mag

trooper
January 21, 2004, 04:13 PM
Trooper, I guess you took some of the prices out of the same green catalogue that now's lying in front of me.

I suppose... :) Got no idea where you could get constantly cheaper ammo around here...


Trooper

T.Stahl
January 21, 2004, 04:25 PM
Uh, well, I usually buy my ammo at a small dealer in Cannstatt. Ammo is not that much cheaper than at that well known large chain, but his gun prices are about 5-10% lower. And, as a big plus, parking is for free and the way to parking lot is much shorter!

Checkman
January 21, 2004, 05:57 PM
Well I can't speak for prices, but I did spend three years in Germany (93-96) courtesy of Uncle Sam. We lived in Bavaria between Nurenburg and Regensbug fairly close to a couple mid sized cities called Neumarket and Amberg.

For the first two years we "lived on the economy" which means we had German landlords. Since we were in Bavaria our landlord was a farmer and a dedicated hunter - deer, birds(?) and wild Boars. He had a 6.5 mm with iron sights (Remington 700(?)), an 1894 Winchester in 44 magnum, a double barrelled 20 guage - unsure of the manufacture, a Marlin bolt action 22LR and a stainless steel Ruger GP 100 with a six inch barrel. At the time I was unfamilar with German gun laws and he explained to me that for a German he had a large collection. I also remeber him telling me that it had taken him years to gather this large of a collection because of German laws. He had to belong to a club, show that he was a hunter and other things I don't remember. He said that it took a long time for him to get clearance to own a handgun.

His club had reloading equipment and he had a "source" for his 22LR. Anyway this is a memory that's ten years old, but I thought it might be interesting. And for those of you who have been stationed in Germany I was at Hohenfels. I was assignned to 1/4 Inf Bn - the OPFOR unit for Europe. We "fought" both American troops as well as other NATO troops - France, Spain, Netherlands, and Germans.

trooper
January 21, 2004, 06:18 PM
Well, I know a couple German shooters/hunters who would consider this a rather small collection :)

You have to put some time and effort into it but it seems that once you have your firearms permit and seriously get into shooting things kinda start to get rolling... :)

There's no limit on how many guns you can own. If you want to buy more than two handguns or three semiauto rifles you have to prove that you have a need for them (e.g. you want to participate in a certain shooting discipline). If you're a hunter you can buy all the "assault rifles" you want and up to three handguns without having to prove anything.

Well, my permit is just 2 months away and I can hardly wait... :)


Regards,

Trooper

Checkman
January 21, 2004, 06:35 PM
Trooper-

I take your word for it. It's your country and I was a visitor who had no knowledge of your country's laws. Possibly my former landlord was pulling my leg or he was one of those people who tends to exxagerate.

I also recall being in Hohenburg on the Romantic Road in 95. One of the shops there was owned and operated by a collector who displayed some of his collection in the shop (behind very thick glass). I remember looking at some really nice C96 Mauser "Bolos", Lugers - to include a long barrel Naval model, a Webley Mk VI, a Colt 1911 and so on. I recall being very jealous of his collection since I'm something of a fan of the Mauser Broomhandle, but they've always been out of my price range.

Anyway there are times that we miss Germany. Our daughter was born there in 95 (City of Burglendfeld) and we had some good times. I was especially fond of Regensburg. My wife liked Nurenburg. We both agreed that Christmas time in Germany was very special. I miss the sausage stands and bakeries. My waist line dosen't miss your country though - or maybe it does. Anyway thanks for the info.

DonNikmare
January 22, 2004, 12:32 AM
I'm originally from Bulgaria n might go back sometimes in the future even though I hope to become a US citizen this year.
In Bulgaria, one can only get permission to own/carry a firearm through the court system by proving that one needs it in line of work or by proving that one's life has been threatened or is at high risk by virtue of status, line of work, etc.
Deadly force is only considered to be justified if an attempt on one's life has been or is being made, not invasion of home or perceived danger as it is in the US.
I'm hoping the laws there would change n I would be able to own a firearm if I go back. This is the reason for my inquiry.
Thanks for all the info.
Nik
I went to Germany(east side) once for 10 days soon after the Berlin wall fell. Very nice country, food, and people. Found it to be very clean & pleasant - people are really responsible with their property n very mindful n tactful to their surroundings n neighbors.

trooper
January 22, 2004, 08:33 AM
Don,

if you're really into firearms as a hobby you should probably stay in the US :)

I think America is one of the most gun-friendly countries on earth if you avoid a few certain places... Most European countries either don't allow their citizens any guns or put lots of bureaucratic hassles in their way.

You want to carry someday? Forget Europe.


Regards,

Trooper

gvass
January 22, 2004, 09:05 AM
"hunter you can buy all the "assault rifles" you want and up to three handguns without having to prove anything."

Actually, for a German hunter, you are NOT allowed to carry any semiauto on the field with more than a 2rd magazine!

And you are allowed to own military-looking semiauto rifles only form 01.april.2003, as the new gun law do not contain the 37. paragraph, about anscheinswaffen.

In my country (Hungary) the situation is even worse.

But be ontopic, the ammo TOP 3 here is:

- 9 mm Luger (by far the most popular) 1 rd is about 0,18 USD (MFS or S&B FMJ)
- .38 Special (or .357 Mag.) with wadcutter bullet (0,25 USD/rd)
- .22 LR (decreasingly popular, because, if you can afford the licensing, you have enough money to buy some "real" gun). (0,045 USD/rd)

All the other handgun calibers do not represent 10% of all ammo sales here.

trooper
January 22, 2004, 09:17 AM
"hunter you can buy all the "assault rifles" you want and up to three handguns without having to prove anything."

Actually, for a German hunter, you are NOT allowed to carry any semiauto on the field with more than a 2rd magazine!

And you are allowed to own military-looking semiauto rifles only form 01.april.2003, as the new gun law do not contain the 37. paragraph, about anscheinswaffen.


True enough. I didn't want to make it too complicated for the start, though :)

For sports purposes self-loading long guns are limited to 10-round magazines. You are allowed, however, to own standard-capacity mags, you just can't put them in your gun... so of course nobody ever does that :D :D :D

And you're right, I was talking about the new law which changed some things for better and some for worse.

I take it you have some personal connection to Germany yourself... right?


Regards,

Trooper

gvass
January 22, 2004, 09:32 AM
hi,
"limited to 10-round magazines. You are allowed, however, to own standard-capacity mags, you just can't put them in your gun... so of course nobody ever does that "

Yep, the 100rd Betamag-advertisement is really nice in the Visier:-))

"I take it you have some personal connection to Germany yourself... right?"

I often travel there (IWA is mandatory of course), and read the german magazines. The DWJ "Neue Waffengesetz Sonderdruck" is on my desk right now, too:-))

Nice complicated law, but I would happily change this to our one...

trooper
January 22, 2004, 09:53 AM
I often travel there (IWA is mandatory of course), and read the german magazines.

Yeah, I'm definitely going there next time... I missed it last year.

The new Firearms Act is not only complicated but also unsystematic and in some instances contradictory. I really don't miss the Anscheinsparagraph but some of the new regulations just drive me nuts.

I was a fully trained and sworn federal law enforcement officer and routinely carried a gun everyday until I quit last year. But since I'm under 25 years old I have to take a psychological test to determine if I'm mentally stable enough to own a handgun.

This plainly sucks.

Um, sorry for hijacking your thread, Don... :)


Regards,

Trooper

gvass
January 22, 2004, 10:04 AM
"I was a fully trained and sworn federal law enforcement officer and routinely carried a gun everyday until I quit last year. But since I'm under 25 years old I have to take a psychological test to determine if I'm mentally stable enough to own a handgun."

Hehe.
Almost the same is here!

You must serve minimum 2 years in LE or Military if you don't want to take a firearm exam (sachkundeprufung) needed for a privately owned gun.

So, if you are a police officer only since 1,5 years, you need to pay for an exam:-))

But without the exam, you are allowed to carry even a loaded full auto AMD-65 (short barrelled Hungarian AK) on duty.

DonNikmare
January 23, 2004, 08:55 PM
No problem trooper. :)
You guys just keep talking - it's very interesting for me to learn about anything related to firearms in Europe as the last time I was there, in '97, I was not into firearms n didn't pay attention to anything related to them.
Nik

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