Gun Ownership and Social Stigma?


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Nushif
July 19, 2011, 02:01 PM
I have been seeing a few threads pop up as of late, in which there is a discussion about how to avoid others knowing one has guns. This ranges from sanitizing reloading benches, to hiding away even gun safes and of course the guns when anyone not living in the house comes in.

While I see reason for this practice of someone for instance has a very large collection of very expensive firearms, I do have to wonder as to why this notion is about.

Maybe I am utterly naive here, but if I had thirty or so collectable BEretta shotguns by virtue of that I'd have the money to put them in a very secure display case, right? And then I could show them.
Controversially right now I am rather poor (that's an overstatement, but I am by no means rich) and own a couple handguns I have accumulated ... and I keep them in various places in the house and of course a small safe.

My apartment is crammed with reloading supplies, a workbench and firearms and I have *never* gotten this negative response so many here want to avoid.

What I am driving at is this notion that gun ownership must be kept super-squirrel secret, as if one should be shamed of it, or at least could get a lot fo negative feedback.

I live in a very, very liberal town surrounded by college students and other like-minded people and not once has my gun ownership gotten a negative response. As a matter of fact, me carrying rather large guns underneath a loose shirt in the wind has never even provoked the bat of an eye.

I am wondering where this culture of (dare I say?) paranoia is coming from. I can understand it in NYC, Detroit and the like, but the average run of the mill gun owner at least in my experience on both the east and west coast really has no reason to live in secrecy. As a matter of fact more than once have I been approached with questions regarding laws, firearms and the shooting sport, even self defense! And never once was this negatively.

So where is this borderline anti-social and secretive culture coming from? any thoughts on this? Because I am legitimately perplexed.

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El Tejon
July 19, 2011, 02:24 PM
Two major forces driving the train:

1. The gun rags.

Most of the gun publications come from New York (Harris) and California (Petersen) which featured decades long of repetitive articles on hiding guns and "concealed" carry because of the anti-gun hysteria of their states. Look at all the gun writers with California ties!

2. The politics of large electoral states.

Hiding guns as deformities that one should be ashamed of is derived from the political reforms in Florida (1987) and Texas (1996) with large electoral vote states reforming their "CCW" laws.

east and west coast really has no reason to live in secrecy

I see you have spent little time in New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York or California. Good for you.:D

Rusty Shackleford
July 19, 2011, 02:27 PM
I think it's mainly because some of the antis are so crazy about it. I heard of one woman who was completely convinced that you had to have a license in Georgia to even buy any kind of gun (not true, even for pistols), and threatened to call the police and have this guy's kids taken from him. This happened to a friend of mine in his own home.

These random and (hopefully) rare events keep most of us wishing to stay private about it... at least until someone we know admits to owning a couple of firearms themselves, then it's all we want to talk about.

Edit: She also insisted that they all had to be registered or he would go to prison... Good thing there is no gun registration at all in Georgia. Even if you wanted to, it simply doesn't exist. That is how badly this lady was misinformed.

Mike1234567
July 19, 2011, 02:29 PM
You don't experience firearm paranoia because you live in Oregon... one of the still-free states.

youngda9
July 19, 2011, 02:33 PM
People don't have a lot of backbone these day. They cower in fear of other's opinions. It's sad/lame/cowardice/foolish/weak/silly.

Nushif
July 19, 2011, 02:34 PM
I've lived in New Hampshire, Delaware, Texas and Oregon thus far, at least CONUS wise ... did I really just luck out?

Mike1234567
July 19, 2011, 02:38 PM
Yes, you're very lucky to have lived in Texas!!:D

wh!plash
July 19, 2011, 02:40 PM
I make it a point not to hide the fact that I enjoy shooting. Not to the point that I feel the need to broadcast it to everyone. I just like to treat it like any other activity that I enjoy. The last thing I want to do is act like its some secretive, evil thing. If non-gun people at least see that we don't treat it like a big deal, I think we're all better off. Guns don't have to be a negative, or even a neutral. They can be positive, and enjoyed just like any other legitimate activity or sport.

For instance, the conversation comes up at work about "what did you do this weekend" and people are talking about boating or whatever, I have no problem saying that I went to the shooting range with friends. I don't go into any detail unless someone asks or strikes up that particular conversation, but I don't think guns should be treated as a taboo subject.

JustinJ
July 19, 2011, 02:52 PM
I'd be surprised if many people secure their guns within their own homes because of concern for social stigma. I have no qualms about people i trust knowing i'm a gun enthusiast and make no secret of that. I in fact generally make it known rather soon after meeting people as i am always trying to bring new people to the hobby.

"Maybe I am utterly naive here, but if I had thirty or so collectable BEretta shotguns by virtue of that I'd have the money to put them in a very secure display case, right?"

Depends on your definition of secure, but no.

thedrewcifur
July 19, 2011, 03:03 PM
i live in ohio where if you live in cleveland or columbus you will be harassed for carrying a gun openly. but i have never had a problem anywhere else in ohio. best city i have lived in in ohio for gun ownership is cincinnati.

Standing Wolf
July 19, 2011, 03:13 PM
You mean there are still people who don't keep and bear arms? Wow. I haven't met any in years.

HOWARD J
July 19, 2011, 03:18 PM
I never saw any paranoia in Detriot about guns---everyone I ever saw carried a gun.
You must have meant the paranoia of the people looking in not the people inside.

chhodge69
July 19, 2011, 03:20 PM
I'm not the slightest bit ashamed of my hobby. I hide my firearms from my social acquaintances for the same reason I hide them from the general public when I CCH. They don't need to know unless it's relevant for some reason.

mgmorden
July 19, 2011, 03:42 PM
In public I don't talk about my guns too much not for a social stigma, but for reasons of theft and security.

Put it this way: nobody has much problem with a emeralds (I would say diamonds but there is some stigma around those - see the movie "Blood Diamond" :)). They're fine and there is no appreciable effort to "ban" or regulate emeralds, nor is there is stigma involved with their ownership. Still, if I had a safe full of them in my house, do you think I would go around advertising that fact? Heck no. It has nothing to do with stigma and everything to do with not making yourself a target.

Ole Coot
July 19, 2011, 04:03 PM
It would be a social stigma around here NOT to own firearms. Guns are as good as cash to thieves and a little dope gives them the courage to try a break-in knowing few homes don't have guns. I don't display mine simply because they are valuable and triple in price in places like NYC and DC traded for dope. As any valuables today they must be locked away. Anyone that knows me knows I carry yet drugs cause people to do stupid things.

Owen Sparks
July 19, 2011, 04:05 PM
In the rural South there is no stigma attached to owning guns at all. That seems to be reserved for homosexuals and atheists here but I digress. People with valuable gun collections are just like people with valuable coin collections in that most of them have better sense than to talk about it in public because if the wrong person hears a rumor about "a guy who has bunch of guns" it could lead to a burglary.

Nushif
July 19, 2011, 04:12 PM
This is an honest question to the reply of "they don't need to know" as I'm getting. Do you keep your other hobbies from people as well?
For instance do you keep the fact that you ... build cars, surf, collect coins or stamps and whatnot from people as well?
Because a lot of the argument seems to be monetary value. But we park our cars outside every night. Weo own a painting worth a couple hundred bucks or a TV or even a laptop without locking it up at night. So why the difference in guns? If someone stole my i-pad I would be out much more money than one of my guns. But I dont lock that up in a hug safe at night or hide the fact that I own it.

Mike1234567
July 19, 2011, 04:14 PM
^^^ Because guns are "hot" on the black market so they sell quickly/easily for good money.

chicago guy
July 19, 2011, 04:23 PM
Here in Chicago gun ownership can be a stigma. Former mayor daley did his best to foster a general negative attitude toward guns. I don't run around shouting about owning guns, but mention it whenever I hear the anti BS about how evil they are. Many friends are surprised to discover that I own and shoot guns regularly. I guess I'm the opposite of the "redneck" image they picture. After their mouths close, I often invite them to come to the range with me and experience shooting first hand. I've had several takers, and several have even gone through the tedious process of getting a Chicago Gun Owners Permit.

Every little bit helps in this very anti city.

Overkilll0084
July 19, 2011, 04:26 PM
I enjoy shooting/guns/reloading as a hobby. If you get me talking, I'll likely go on for a while.
There is however, the concept known in the military as OPSEC. Operations Security. The world doesn't need to know what I have or where it's kept. I have a safe and an alarm system but why advertise a nice juicy target. The less the general public knows about what goes on in my man cave, the better. If you were invited, that's an entirely different issue. As for carrying, concealed is concealed. If you don't have a need to know, I'm not likely to bring it up with you.
When you go on vacation, do you post your itenerary on Facebook before you leave? The world doesn't always have your best interests at heart, those who forget this will often be given an unpleasant reminder.

Owen Sparks
July 19, 2011, 04:32 PM
Guns, gold coins and jewlry are prime targets for theft while baseball cards and stamp collections generally aren't because they are much harder to fence.

geekWithA.45
July 19, 2011, 04:51 PM
Social stigma is highly dependent on location.

Emitting what was once baseline American mores and values in NJ can result in reactions from some of the ignoranti that is extreme, ranging from social ostracisation to bias that results in job and economic consequences.

XM855
July 19, 2011, 05:22 PM
For what it's worth, I've personally been called a terrorist on two separate occasions in my own home because I was cleaning my guns. I live in Texas. And this is just in the past year.

JustinJ
July 19, 2011, 05:40 PM
"For what it's worth, I've personally been called a terrorist on two separate occasions in my own home because I was cleaning my guns. I live in Texas. And this is just in the past year."

Please elaborate.

Jeff White
July 19, 2011, 05:48 PM
For me it's not about social stigma, it's about deterring theft.

The Lone Haranguer
July 19, 2011, 05:55 PM
I am more paranoid - sorry, I meant concerned ;) - about being targeted for theft than any social stigma. (Having been burgled and guns stolen - and by the neighbors, too :mad: - I have some basis in fact for this belief.) I am already a bit of an outcast to start with, so who cares. :evil:

XM855
July 19, 2011, 06:03 PM
"For what it's worth, I've personally been called a terrorist on two separate occasions in my own home because I was cleaning my guns. I live in Texas. And this is just in the past year."

Please elaborate.
I go to school in Austin and just got back from a long day at the range on both occasions. I always prefer to clean my guns as soon as I'm home if I can help it. I usually leave my door open cus...I guess I'm just an amiable guy. At the time, I had one female housemate and one male housemate.

The first time, I was sitting there watching some videos on youtube and scrubbing away at my AR. The girl housemate got home with a handful of girls, all of which I've met before and they came over to say hi. Then one of them got all wide-eyed and shocked "Why do you have a gun?!?" etc. etc. Then came the terrorist remark.

The second time, was a girl that my guy housemate was chasing after. To describe her in one word: vegan. I did not approve. I got nothing against veg heads, in fact the girl housemate was one and so was my roommate the year before. I support their way of life because it saves more bacon for me! However, this girl was vegan in every stereotypical way possible. It also didn't help that I was in the middle of prepping for my deer hunt the next day...Anyways she started saying how eating meat was not sustainable blah blah blah even though she has to take supplements just to stay alive. Back on topic though, you can imagine how that evening went over. I felt like terrorist Jesus, getting crucified for everything bad in the world. Sorry if that's offensive to anyone. I do not mean it that way. She ran upstairs when it was clear that her only argument was that she could survive on marijuana alone and I shut my door for the rest of the night.

philpost
July 19, 2011, 06:09 PM
Growing up in NYC, it was definitely not the norm for non-criminals to have firearms.

Rusty Shackleford
July 19, 2011, 06:09 PM
Even in the deep south, there are pockets of the population who do not agree with your right to keep and bear arms. Mostly they are fresh from New York, New Jersey, or California. The pockets of these ignorant people are all in the bigger cities. In my state, that's Atlanta.

If these people leave a major city down here and start their anti-gun rants, they'll just get quizzical stares from the locals. My buddy (who had the lady start ranting about how she could call the cops and have his children taken from him) reportedly just commented about how she was very mistaken about the laws in Georgia and that she should check her anti-social behavior at the door before entering his home in the future.

cambeul41
July 19, 2011, 06:13 PM
I am wondering where this culture of (dare I say?) paranoia is coming from. I can understand it in NYC, Detroit and the like,

I see no paranoia in Detroit. What I see is less fear now than I did before Michigan became shall issue. Nearly every college class I teach has a couple of young ladies who have their CCW/CPLs. Just today I e-mailed information to one who requested it in class.

Loosedhorse
July 19, 2011, 07:27 PM
There's the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Anyone around here knows you even hunt (and therefore probably own a gun), they are likely to ask you if your guns are secured--a question I applaud--or perhaps even more likely to just assume that any house with a gun in it is unsafe. No play dates.

So, my kids go play over there. :evil: Perhaps I should ask about white plastic buckets? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott57.html) :uhoh::rolleyes:

Seanpcola
July 19, 2011, 07:42 PM
+1 on the "don't advertise to thieves" choice. I'm not overly concerned about theft where I live but see no reason to advertise. You just never know where the info will wind up. Just seems like it makes your house a juicy target.

My main hobby is RC model sailplanes and I have a nice 6 x 12 enclosed trailer to carry everything to the field. My friends have the outside of their trailers adorned with pictures of airplanes, manufacturers logos and such, mine is simple white with no advertising. Theirs have gotten broken into or the whole trailer stolen. No one pays attention to mine. Same thing with Harley D carriers and even landscaping trailers.

Deltaboy
July 19, 2011, 07:44 PM
I think it's mainly because some of the antis are so crazy about it. I heard of one woman who was completely convinced that you had to have a license in Georgia to even buy any kind of gun (not true, even for pistols), and threatened to call the police and have this guy's kids taken from him. This happened to a friend of mine in his own home.

These random and (hopefully) rare events keep most of us wishing to stay private about it... at least until someone we know admits to owning a couple of firearms themselves, then it's all we want to talk about.

Edit: She also insisted that they all had to be registered or he would go to prison... Good thing there is no gun registration at all in Georgia. Even if you wanted to, it simply doesn't exist. That is how badly this lady was misinformed.
She must be one of those bad transplants we have been getting in the South the past 25 years. If she from Ill, NY or NJ I would not be shocked by her ignorance.

Deltaboy
July 19, 2011, 07:45 PM
I am more paranoid - sorry, I meant concerned ;) - about being targeted for theft than any social stigma. (Having been burgled and guns stolen - and by the neighbors, too :mad: - I have some basis in fact for this belief.) I am already a bit of an outcast to start with, so who cares. :evil:
Prayers for you that just stinks!

Byrd666
July 19, 2011, 08:57 PM
I can see, of sorts, as to how you would feel there is a social stigma related to being a gun owner. With ALL the anti-gun persons shouting from every tall building and slapping everything negative possible about firearms/guns into whatever print, voice, and visual media available to them. They, the anti-gun people are in some cases, distorting the facts or events in such a way that even being as cynical I am, almost makes me believe them.

Thinking it over though, about the only real negativity I can recall was a time or two in San Francisco area. Even though I was stationed at Alameda NAS at the time and almost obviously a sailor, it was almost always a negative to admit to owning a personal sidearm. Except, of course, to other military personnel. And yes, I too have lived in various locales such as Cleveland, Denver area, Jacksonville Fla, Dallas and surrounding cities as well as East Texas and Houston briefly. Too muggy down there. As well as traveled east to west and north to south multiple times.

I guess it must be the sort of people I attract or something 'cause I've never really had a problem with it personally. Or maybe the fact that I just really don't care what other people think of it. I think that is just one of the reasons for my life membership with the N.R.A. and my practice of trying to get or help young'ns get involved with shooting. And some not so young as well.

Information as well as education and safety training can be enlightening to the uninformed.

goon
July 19, 2011, 09:20 PM
I also have spent the last several years in a college town and will be going back for graduate school.
My apartment frequently has guns in the corner, shooting stuff such as musket ball and flints or ammunition on the coffee table, stuff like that. Most of my friends know I carry and sort of "remind" me if we're going to a secluded wooded area. I've taught half a dozen people, mostly young women, to shoot. Everyone got a kick out of the disintegrating link belt of dummy 7.62 Nato rounds I had on top of the entertainment center and was fascinated by how it worked.
I've only had one negative response - real paranoia - from one person. I've seen some fear, but that gets taken care of after a trip to the local range with the 10/22.

If there is a stigma attached to my gun ownership, it's not a bad one.

And FWIW, a little sharp logic will often shut the closet anti's up.
One classmate, a decent enough guy but harboring some anti-gun paranoia, commented to me about how he was concerned that the campus police now had "machine guns" (semi-auto M-4 carbines) in their patrol cars. "Just what we need on campus... trigger-happy cops with machine guns!" was his reaction to this.
My response: "Well, I imagine you'd sing a different tune if some lunatic wandered into this classroom with a Kalashnikov and opened fire on us."
I'm pretty sure no one other than me knew what a Kalashnikov is. Still, half the class smirked to themselves and the other half stayed out of it, but no one else joined in.

Old Fuff
July 19, 2011, 09:30 PM
For me it's not about social stigma, it's about deterring theft.

Same with me. Being too open can bring folks to visit when you're not home... :uhoh:

Ignition Override
July 19, 2011, 09:52 PM
A pair of guys doing a semi-annual air conditioner inspection recognized the reloading gear. Did not know that my wife had them scheduled to visit that day.

I figured, oh well (too late to cover with a sheet)...and told him that I have an old surplus British rifle.

The last thing guys should do is admit to having a handgun, which is a much hotter target.
All of my guns are rifles, mostly bolt-action, and none of them are the glamorous types. Luckily No houses have been burglarized in this area.

XM855
July 19, 2011, 09:55 PM
My response: "Well, I imagine you'd sing a different tune if some lunatic wandered into this classroom with a Kalashnikov and opened fire on us."

How appropriate. This is almost exactly what actually happened to us this last year. The police didn't even need to use their "machine guns" and we were singing their praises.

WinThePennant
July 19, 2011, 10:00 PM
The anti-gun crowd and media have done a number on the perception a lot of people have about guns.

Just to show you how messed up some people are, I'll relate a little story. I have a friend who is concerned about an acquaintance "going crazy" with a gun and killing them in their own home. After reviewing the facts, I agree that it is very possible that this slightly unhinged person might get busy with a gun and kill them all. So, are they doing the responsible thing and arming themselves? Nope. They "...don't believe in guns..."

When I get my concealed carry permit, I will be carrying while at their home. If that nut shows up, I'll be able to defend the lives of those fools who choose to disarm themselves.

I have absolutely no respect for a man who chooses to remain unarmed in these increasingly desperate times. For the love of God, you must arm yourselves.

chhodge69
July 19, 2011, 10:16 PM
Ok, to elaborate on my earlier comment 'they don't need to know'

I do perceive some negative social stigma attached to the ownership and use of guns. So when I make a new acquaintance I prefer to withhold any personal information that might be used to form an incorrect opinion or snap judgment about me. That includes many personal things, not just this hobby.

And so I have had the benefit of getting to know people without a stigma in the way which allowed me to become a positive +gun influence to them when they might have dismissed me instead.

If shooting does come up in mixed company I will talk about IDPA matches. It seems that organized shooting sports are more acceptable and don't conjure up so many negatives among the -gun crowd.

JellyJar
July 19, 2011, 10:43 PM
I hope this isn't too off topic.

I used to work in a furniture store in Houston Texas. We sold lots of cheap ( about $150 retail back then ) gun display cabinets. No real security at all!! Cheap plate glass and locks you could jimmy open with a butter knife!!! Yet we sold lots of them. No social stigma there.

One of my coworkers remarked once that he had one of these cabinets. It was full of junk guns that would not work and only cost about $5 apiece. He used it as a decoy and kept his really good stuff hidden elsewhere in case he got burgled! Not a bad idea.

Shienhausser
July 19, 2011, 10:53 PM
If I talk about a gun with someone I always say "a friend of mine has" or " I've shot _____ once". No one knows that way.

M-Cameron
July 19, 2011, 11:18 PM
from personal experience......ive found that that stigma disappears as soon as you allow it to....

i talk about guns freely.......like people talk about movies, baseball, cars.......

people ask what i like to do/ what my hobbies are......usually reply with something that boils down to "...shooting / guns...".......

you would be surprised at the number of people who are also interested in shooting......nearly everyone that ive brought it up with has responded positively....


now i go to school in a pretty liberal city.....and im amazed at how many people i overhear talking about guns and shooting......its at least several times a week......and its actual gun discussion too.... not "yo' man, dat fo-tay is smokin, when i get paid imma get me a gat and be strapped full time"......or "the m14 in COD is far more effective than any other weapons platform than in any other game"


i guess everyone thinks there is some stigma about guns, and you cant talk about them or everyone will think you are a crazed nut job.......so no one talks about guns......furthering a stigma which doesnt exist.

Dave P.
July 19, 2011, 11:37 PM
Social stigma....I just flat out don't care.
I don't go to any extreme one way or the other regarding my guns.
I'll admit to having some concerns about theft but really no more
so than I do about the many dollars of tools in my garage.
Close friends and family know I carry and also know I'm not
concerned what they think about it. It is what it is.......
Dave

hermannr
July 19, 2011, 11:57 PM
You do know the Oregon State University has an oragnized pistol team? http://people.oregonstate.edu/studentgroups/pistol/pistol-team

They have a rifle team too. Been that way for years and years (I left Oregon in '63) That is one of the reason Corvalus in pretty gun friendly. The other is it is Oregon. UO and Eugene is much worse than OSU.

As for social stigma? Na, give that back to them, make those that want to give a stigma to firearms owners, users, just give it back. Make them feel out of place. Ask them if they are from NYC or some other anti freedom place.

WinThePennant
July 20, 2011, 12:31 AM
You do know the Oregon State University has an oragnized pistol team? http://people.oregonstate.edu/studentgroups/pistol/pistol-team

They have a rifle team too. Been that way for years and years (I left Oregon in '63) That is one of the reason Corvalus in pretty gun friendly. The other is it is Oregon. UO and Eugene is much worse than OSU.

As for social stigma? Na, give that back to them, make those that want to give a stigma to firearms owners, users, just give it back. Make them feel out of place. Ask them if they are from NYC or some other anti freedom place.
I agree 100%. And, truth be told, they are the ones out of place with reality.

rocky branch
July 20, 2011, 12:35 AM
I live in a part of Illinois where nobody would bother to think twice about what or how many guns one owns.

The majority of the state is like that.

Just a few commie/socialist occupied areas have issues.

SARDiver
July 20, 2011, 01:21 AM
No social stigma here, but I do worry whenever men come over to fix the cable, air conditioning, etc. I don't hide, but I don't advertise, either. Only two items have a higher street value than they do on the normal market: drugs and guns. If I get any comment about my reloading supplies or safe, the next comment is always about being a competitive shooter, and that my wife shoots, too.

A friend at work knew someone who was killed when he entered the wrong house after a night of hard drinking. My thinking is that the guy walked into the wrong house. His thinking is that someone should not have had a weapon to kill with, or should have waited to see Drunk Guy's intentions. When the tornadoes of 27 April hit, I was glad I didn't have that guy's philosophy, as having weapons during the 7 day power outage was comforting.

Murple
July 20, 2011, 02:45 AM
No play dates.
Bingo.

(if you don't have kids, or are okay with them dealing with the potential stigma, have at it, I guess :-/ )

TenMillimaster
July 20, 2011, 03:21 AM
I grew up in north dallas... My dad was waiting for me to get on in years so that my mom would let me go shooting with him. Never happened, as it turns out, because he passed away my freshman year of highschool. Mom never got around to approving of my hobby (though I did inherit his plinkers, woohoo), and never, ever supported it. She was, in a sense, ashamed of it. I suspect it has something to do with asian culture, but being a american-half-born chinese person, it's not something I really understand. Of course my dad got it, but she made him sell all his toys but a few.

Sometimes I catch myself being ashamed because of my upbringing, but then I have to remind myself that not only is it my hobby, it's also my right.

NoirFan
July 20, 2011, 08:21 AM
I grew up in north dallas... My dad was waiting for me to get on in years so that my mom would let me go shooting with him. Never happened, as it turns out, because he passed away my freshman year of highschool. Mom never got around to approving of my hobby (though I did inherit his plinkers, woohoo), and never, ever supported it. She was, in a sense, ashamed of it. I suspect it has something to do with asian culture, but being a american-half-born chinese person, it's not something I really understand. Of course my dad got it, but she made him sell all his toys but a few.


I have a similar background to yours. In my experience many first generation Asian immigrants are violently anti-gun. The most anti-gun people I have ever met were older folks from China, Taiwan, and India, and I think it's because these are cultures which have historically not placed a high value on martial skills. For much of ancient Chinese history, for example, scholars and civil servants were respected far more than warriors. And then there's India where weapons skills were kept out of the hands of commoners and strictly limited to the kshatriya caste. Combine that cultural background with their only exposure coming through media reporting on criminals and real-lfe bigots with guns, and it's easy to see how they develop these attitudes.

Here in Indiana we have quite the hunting culture so people don't really get upset when they hear about guns. Even if they don't like it they tend to mind their own business because of Midwestern politeness.

jaysouth
July 20, 2011, 09:16 AM
Our collective values have been warped by political correctness, the spread of elitist eastern culture by television and advancing feminization of our culture and values.

If you lived in ANY state, a prosecutor or shyster lawyer could make you into a crazed homocidal maniac by virture of owning guns. God forbid one of them was a 'sniper' or assualt weapon. If you owned a couple of handguns, you are obsviously a psyhotic looking for trouble.

Doubt me, go sit in on your local circuit court and look at the vegetables that get selected for jurors AND convict people to prison or give out huge monetary awards.

ball3006
July 20, 2011, 10:32 AM
In the south, if you don't have a gun, you are considered a yankee........chris3

Patriotme
July 20, 2011, 10:42 AM
I don't hide the fact that I have guns and I make it a point to take several non shooters to the range every year. I do however make it a point not to tell people how many guns I have as the number can seem a bit large to those that don't shoot or collect guns.
I can understand those that have a lot of beautiful and expensive guns wanting to display them but that's not my thing. I believe in keeping my guns securely locked up as my daughter has friends over now and then and it calms down some of their parents. I also don't like strangers knowing what I have.

Lone_Sheep_Dog
July 20, 2011, 11:30 AM
I used to talk about guns at work. One day I realized I was the only one who likes guns. Everyone started making jokes about my gun hobby and that I might get angry and shoot people.
I will never talk about guns again unless I know the person is a firearms enthusiast.
I only know a couple of people who own guns. Most people don't and they think gun owners are strange. It's a shame really. This is one of the few countries in the world with this freedom, and so few appreciate it.

Mike1234567
July 20, 2011, 11:40 AM
For what it's worth, I've personally been called a terrorist on two separate occasions in my own home because I was cleaning my guns. I live in Texas. And this is just in the past year.

Whoever said that was joking, right? If not, they must not be native Texan.

ETA: Nevermind... just read post #27.

JustinJ
July 20, 2011, 11:45 AM
I've actually used guns to great affect to develop strong relationships at work with many of our client's representatives. A regular question asked of me is "what new gun did you buy this weekend?". I've found that many guys who aren't much into guns will talk about them in depth for whatever reason. Maybe not to seem unmanly? One of the execs and i regularly run to a local favorite gun shop at lunch.

Mike1234567
July 20, 2011, 11:50 AM
I couldn't give a single mouse fart what people think but I don't talk to others about what I have. As others stated, advertising invites unwanted takers.

gym
July 20, 2011, 12:20 PM
We get a lot of snowbirds where I live in Vero. Some are cool, they shoot and come from states where there is much hunting like upstate NY.
But there are some loony's who come from states that don't allow handguns. They are the problem. When they find out through over hearing conversations amongst the guys and ladies who do shoot, they go nuts.
I had a woman "who is now having cameras installed while I type", all around her property, because she found out through her neighboors on all 3 sides, Lft, rt, and across the street, that they all had firearms. She found out because she is constantlly calling us at night because she hears things in her yard.
So now that she thinks we are all a bunch of killers, no one will go and look anymore. She went and told anyone who would listen that we would kill all of the people in the development, only to find out that they also had a few firearms in their homes.
You can't fix stupid.I called the police who had told her she was lucky to have such good neighboors, and left it at that.I wanted it on record that she was making basless statements slandering my name. Two other ex leo's went down to the sherriff, and did the same thing. You never know what people are going to do, they told her to get a gun, and stop telling everyone that her husband was never home, and she had a lot of money in her house. The officer that showed up told her "lady you just said to me 5 or 6 times that you have money and jewelry in your house and no one is there at night. Wake up.And I foud most folks don't use their alarm also. "it's too much work" We have kids that just walk around and turn the door handles on the homes and cars, if their open, then in they go. People unfortunatelly don't learn until something happens to them.

USAF_Vet
July 20, 2011, 12:24 PM
Michigan is pretty gun friendly over all. Most of my co-workers are all either former military or hunters. I've had many conversations about hunting and shooting.

We have a "no weapons" policy at work, and even gun friendly coworkers have commented on my EDC knife. It gets used to cut boxes, plastic wrap, etc. It seems as though there is a stigma more about my choice of knife than the fact that I own guns.

My Benchmade Barrage with it's 4" blade was referred to as a 'Machete' only yesterday.

But every year during deer season, there are rifle cases in the back of 80% of the vehicles in the parking lot.

I'll talk about guns and whatnot to certain people who I know are also gun owners, but rarely will I openly advertise to perfect strangers that I have guns, unless I'm OCing, then it's pretty obvious. In rural Michigan though, it's pretty much assumed that you have a gun of some sort.

Owen Sparks
July 20, 2011, 01:01 PM
My wife was watching a rerun of one of those network crime shows the other day. At one point the detectives were interviewing some guy and his wife and asked him if he owned a gun. He said: "We are good people, we don't own guns and we don't allow guns in our home."

Arkansas Paul
July 20, 2011, 04:04 PM
In Arkansas, if you don't own a gun you try and keep it a secret. :)

MrsSmith
July 20, 2011, 05:32 PM
I don't advertise the fact that I own/carry guns, but I don't hide it either. When someone asks what I did over the weekend, if I've been to the range or in a match, I say so. Most people I've come into contact with are interested in guns/shooting and it frequently sparks conversation.
There was one negative instance recently though. A guy who knew I shoot competitively asked me out and requested that I not go to dinner "armed." I explained that wasn't an option and he was uncomfortable with the idea so I didn't go out with him.
As to guns around the house, I only have two at the moment. One I keep hidden and the other is always within arm's reach. I keep one hidden because my office is in my home and there are occasions when someone I don't know well will drop by. I don't worry about theft - doubt anyone looking for things of value is going to go through the stack of sheets in the top of my closet and if a bad guy gets the other one away from me I have bigger problems than theft.

searcher451
July 20, 2011, 06:12 PM
People fear what they don't understand. And, sadly, too many people don't understand guns ... or gun ownership. Their views are colored by what they see on the TV shows or hear on the TV newscasts. (In the old days, I would have mentioned that their views were equally colored by what they read in the newspaper, but nobody reads a newspaper any more.) Consequently, too people react in the same way they would if they saw a swarm of killer bees heading their way.

Old krow
July 20, 2011, 06:35 PM
I live in a very, very liberal town surrounded by college students and other like-minded people and not once has my gun ownership gotten a negative response.

I have gotten negative responses and I live in the very, very, conservative South. To top it off, I have gotten it from natives. Gun ownership and the stigma that can go along with it is a very strange thing. If you haven't gotten any negative responses yet, give it a few years. Many people in college haven't had time to firm up their opinions of a lot of things yet. That will change, for better or for worse, as time goes on. But, it's a good opportunity to show gun ownership in a positive light.

I have a neighbor, that brought me a deer when he killed 3, thinks that I must have a permit to reload ammo.

I know a guy (military and from the local area) that refuses to let anyone with a gun in his home... to include his family. His dad has an extensive collection. What makes it laughable is the fact that he taught a small arms class.

I am single and sometimes find myself in the company of those who do not share my values. I haven't really ever found it to be a huge deal, but there have been a couple times when something was said. That can be a bit strange because you don't always know what you're walking into... or I don't know always know anyway, but it's always fun.

I know several people who's wives, husbands, or families do not want them to have guns in the house at all.

I have been told by family members that I shouldn't be allowed to own "x" gun.

I think that much of it is misinformation, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it paranoia. There are people out there that will hate you, or call you crazy, simply because you own a gun.

ridgerunner1965
July 20, 2011, 09:26 PM
here where i live in MO, if you dont have at least a few guns you are considered a liberal democrat and one to be wary of.even people i know that are not shooters have a few guns around for use on the farm such as dispatching skunks,sick cows, old horses and just annoying things that wander up in the yard.guess thats stigma reversed?

Nanook
July 20, 2011, 09:40 PM
Even in IL, near the belly of the beast, there is no real social stigma to owing guns. Heck, the town I live in almost everybody owns guns, hunts, shoots trap or skeet, etc.

It's pretty much Chicago and its immediate area where such things exist.

Everybody who knows me knows I'm a shooter / reloader. Nobody has bothered me as yet.

I get the occasional liberal brain fart from associates who just watched the news, but not much other than that. I just either correct them, or laugh outright depending on how stupid the remarks are.

One funny note, one year for Thanksgiving my parents and one of my brothers were over for dinner. I had made some changes to my garage, and was showing them. Both my father and brother, upon seeing my bench, asked it that was legal. LOL

I guess gunpowder and primers on a bench somehow made them nervous. I quickly cleared up their misconceptions.

BLACKHAWKNJ
July 20, 2011, 10:05 PM
I agree-it's about avoiding theft. Also, where does this "stigma" come from?
If anything it goes the other way-I know a lot of erstwhile liberals who are closet gun owners but choose not to reveal it.
Also it depends on what social circles you travel in.

DAP90
July 20, 2011, 10:13 PM
My coworker found out I had a carry license the other day (my boss has a big mouth). I mostly don’t mind if people know but I knew this guy would be trouble.

He asked why I needed one of those – was I going to go on a murder rampage? I said the government doesn’t license for that and that it was actually in case somebody else did.

Mostly, I’d say when people find out they don’t really care one way or the other; any more than I’d really care about their hobbies.

WinThePennant
July 20, 2011, 10:29 PM
My coworker found out I had a carry license the other day (my boss has a big mouth). I mostly don’t mind if people know but I knew this guy would be trouble.

He asked why I needed one of those – was I going to go on a murder rampage? I said the government doesn’t license for that and that it was actually in case somebody else did.

Mostly, I’d say when people find out they don’t really care one way or the other; any more than I’d really care about their hobbies.
People like that deserve to have the living hell beat out of them.

I'm serious.

Ky Larry
July 20, 2011, 10:35 PM
I don't understand why I should worry about a social stigma being attched to my gun ownership. Everyone in my life that matters to me knows who ,what, and how I am.Everybody else can go pack sand. Just my $0.02 worth.:neener:

DAP90
July 21, 2011, 12:05 AM
People like that deserve to have the living hell beat out of them.

I'm serious.


I can honestly say I couldnít care less what this guy thinks of me. Heís a hopeless case and no amount of logic or beatings would change that. Some people just arenít worth the effort.

AethelstanAegen
July 21, 2011, 12:18 AM
I said the government doesnít license for that and that it was actually in case somebody else did.

Haha. That was a well thought out response. Concise and to the point. As if you'd bother to get a carry permit if you were planning to go on a murder spree? You have to wonder how some people are able to get through the day when their reasoning is that flawed. You handled that well, DPotvin. It may not have changed his mind, but any of your other coworkers who may have been listening in should be able to grasp the point you made.

gdesloge
July 21, 2011, 12:33 AM
Is it a legitimate position to ask why someone opposes a right guaranteed in the Constitution?

gd

Hardtarget
July 21, 2011, 01:04 AM
This is WEd. July 20. At church tonight, I got two comments about guns. gave a quick lesson both times. Freaked one out about shotguns. Was kind of funny to watch the look on her face.

Any place, other than church, I will ask if anti gun person owns a computer...on line?...a modem?, a digital camera?. :eek: If yes, I just suggest they go turn themselves in to the police. I inform them they own the assault weapon of child molesters, pedophiles, and predatory sexual stalkers...and I know what crime they'll commit before too long! :evil: :what:

They don't like that very much.

I think more about the "target, thieft, break in" angle.

Mark

goon
July 21, 2011, 01:14 AM
here where i live in MO, if you dont have at least a few guns you are considered a liberal democrat and one to be wary of.

You all aren't doing yourselves any favors by keeping this a "liberal vs. conservative" type of thing.
I'm not that old so it's possible that at one time, your views on guns almost certainly coincided with your overall political ideology. But it isn't so much anymore. Gunowners belong to all political parties.
Right now I'm registered as an Independent. I tend to be a somewhat pragmatic libertarian, but I'm planning to register as a democrat.

A democrat... who owns guns? And actually enjoys shooting? And thinks that there is both a Constitutionally enumerated right AND a natural right to own guns for your own defense?
Surely I must be off my rocker. Guess I'd better make plans to sell them all off as soon as I change my registration...

Oathkeeper1775
July 21, 2011, 02:16 AM
I live 9 miles out and above the nearest town; gunfire can be heard all day long here....every day and sometimes into the wee hours of the nights.

When my relatives (from the city) come to visit, it scares them. :uhoh:

To admit a mistake; I feel I do advertise my ownership too much. This post for 1 example, my NRA Life Membership and Oregon Firearms Federation stickers on my truck kind of broadcasts it too.

Eventhough I can, I rarely shoot on my property; not wanting to advertise to somebody nearby that could easily vector my location.

Some things are best "received" when they are a complete suprise....:D

Nushif
July 21, 2011, 02:39 AM
Some very interesting talk here for sure, and specifically I have noticed one ongoing theme. And that is of theft deterrent or this "OPSEC" notion. ( I swear I can't say that in a civilian context without giggling)

Now, my question would be, how many of the people here who keep their gun ownership undercover because of the fiscal danger also keep any other similar fiscal investments mum.

Let's assume for a second someone has three handguns for 500 bucks each. That's 1.5k
Should that same person then conceal every hobby, physical investment and other easily accessible item under lock and key, or even more importantly secret?

One such item is for instance a laptop. Would it be equally prudent to lock a laptop in a safe or have it on one's person at all times? How about car ownership?

What I am driving at is that there really does seem to be this culture, even within our community that guns are indeed something special. Motorcycles require a mandatory course to operate here and usually cost significantly more to operate and own than a gun, but I rarely see motorcycle owners keeping mum about their motorcycle activities. And there is a similar stigma of recklessness and endangering of others there as well.

Another example would be DJing equipment. That stuff is very, very pricey, annoys entire neighborhoods and usually associated with criminal locales, drugs , bad neighborhoods and people, but I don't see the DJ scene hiding their turntables in safes at night.

Any more thoughts on this?

oldbear
July 21, 2011, 02:53 AM
I donít display my firearms in my home or anywhere else, I guess I never felt the need to. My interest in the shooting sports is only a small part of my total as a person. I also realize that some people tend to become nervous or uncomfortable around guns, so why do something that my upset a guest in my home? Perhaps the most important reason is, with the exception of my deep storage weapons, every firearm in my home are always loaded, so why take a chance on an A.D. by a guest?

lambermk
July 21, 2011, 03:47 AM
I make a point to show everybody who comes over at least some of my collection. And there aren't too many people who have been over who ain't seen the whole collection. If they want to run the risk then so be it I 'll catch them and I'll find and they dang sure better hope I ain't in the house while they' re breaking in. Hell to pay. Also I have game cameras set up outside to let me know just who stopped by. I put it in their heads that I ain't afraid to use the guns either, friends or acquaintances.

DAP90
July 21, 2011, 09:41 AM
Should that same person then conceal every hobby, physical investment and other easily accessible item under lock and key, or even more importantly secret?

I donít know if we need to completely conceal everything we have or do but we should watch what we say and who we say it to. Iíve heard of people talking about their new flat screen TV on Facebook only to later find out that one of their ďfriendsĒ robbed them while they were at work.

We lock guns is safes because guns are high value targets that if stolen, will likely then be used to commit further, and worse, crimes. They are also dangerous for the untrained to have access to and we donít want guests or family to hurt anyone.

Laptops would be another high value target not just for the cash they represent but the information on them. I donít think locking them in a safe is necessary but I wouldnít leave one in plain view in my car either.

JustinJ
July 21, 2011, 09:55 AM
"What I am driving at is that there really does seem to be this culture, even within our community that guns are indeed something special."

Guns are a prime target for theft because many can not or do not want to get them in legit ways. So if somebody plans on using a gun in a crime, ecspecially murder, the last thing they want is a paper trail. A laptop loses a lot more value being hot than a gun.

gdesloge
July 21, 2011, 01:16 PM
"Any place, other than church, I will ask if anti gun person owns a computer...on line?...a modem?, a digital camera?. If yes, I just suggest they go turn themselves in to the police. I inform them they own the assault weapon of child molesters, pedophiles, and predatory sexual stalkers...and I know what crime they'll commit before too long!"

Brilliant!

gd

JustinJ
July 21, 2011, 02:43 PM
"Any place, other than church, I will ask if anti gun person owns a computer...on line?...a modem?, a digital camera?. If yes, I just suggest they go turn themselves in to the police. I inform them they own the assault weapon of child molesters, pedophiles, and predatory sexual stalkers...and I know what crime they'll commit before too long!"

The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill. So be prepared to argue against that by the use of guns for sport, recreation and defense.

And why not use your arguement at church?

youngda9
July 21, 2011, 03:22 PM
The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill.

Self defense of myself and loved ones would be quite the beneficial usage...you don't necessarily have to kill, just stopping the attack would be just fine. It is preferrable(legally and financially) not to have to shoot and that is most often the case when using a firearm for SD.

hq
July 21, 2011, 03:30 PM
The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill. So be prepared to argue against that by the use of guns for sport, recreation and defense.

Every time I hear that argument, I stare at the person who said it and ask if he/she is serious - when (s)he sees an inanimate object, the only course of action (s)he can think of is to kill someone, and if that really is something a reasonable and rational person would say.

Reframing the whole situation, that is. Works surprisingly well when they really have go on defensive about something they said and implied in the first place.

Admittedly it's an aggressive move and you can't expect to make any friends with it, but chances are someone who really thinks all gun enthusiasts are homicidial maniacs has no intention to be your friend in the first place. And, at that point, depriving them the joy of being witty (or even "right") is IMO a justifiable verbal kick in the groin.

youngda9
July 21, 2011, 03:59 PM
Every time I hear that argument, I stare at the person who said it and ask if he/she is serious - when (s)he sees an inanimate object, the only course of action (s)he can think of is to kill someone, and if that really is something a reasonable and rational person would say.
Hide your kitchen knives.

TexasBill
July 21, 2011, 04:30 PM
Anyone who comes in my house will know I have at least one gun. It's on my hip in plain sight.

19&41
July 21, 2011, 06:31 PM
Most people who know me know I own guns. Now on the other hand I do not freely advertise that I own guns to any stranger on the street, any more than I would leave a carton for an expensive flat screen tv on the curbside for a week to be picked up after buying one, or counting a wad of large bills on the subway platform. One must exercise prudence in these matters.

JustinJ
July 21, 2011, 06:37 PM
"Every time I hear that argument, I stare at the person who said it and ask if he/she is serious - when (s)he sees an inanimate object, the only course of action (s)he can think of is to kill someone, and if that really is something a reasonable and rational person would say."

No offense but that doesn't really make sense. Just because something has a purpose doesn't mean somebody who sees it must feel they are compelled to use it for said purpose. A skirt is made to be worn but most guys don't feel compelled to cross dress when we see one.

Jrob24
July 21, 2011, 07:21 PM
My friends know that I own guns and none of them have given me a hard time about it. However I won't mention that I own guns at work. Here in MA I'd expect to get fired if the boss turns out to be an anti, which is highly likely.

Chris Rhines
July 21, 2011, 07:24 PM
I live in Maryland, and work mostly in DC, doing network administration for law firms and lefty nonprofits.

All of my coworkers and the vast majority of my clients know that I'm a shooting enthusiast, competitor, and part-time gun dealer. I talk about guns and shooting with anyone who expresses an interest.

So far, in seven years, I've yet to have a negative reaction. Nor have I been robbed or had my home burgled.

We should not be hiding our lifestyles. We should be out celebrating them. Guns and shooting are fun!

-C

k-frame
July 21, 2011, 07:41 PM
I don't hide it nor advertise the fact that I own firearms. If asked, I'll answer. Mostly I run into curiosity and sincere interest. So far no one has tried to take me to task (of course it may be that I live in a very gun-friendly state.)

I work for a large Indian company and a while back was in the home office (in India) meeting with colleagues and an Australian business partner. The topic of guns came up at lunch and someone asked me if I owned any guns. I said yes and everyone at the table went quiet for a second and looked at me like I had grown a third eye. And then we had a rather nice conversation about why I own guns (protection and recreation) a short history of how the 2nd Amendment came to be, how it's a protected right, the varied opinion on guns in the US, etc. Mostly lots and lots of genuine curiosity since the rest of the world mostly knows the US through Hollywood. And we all know how THAT turns out when it comes to guns and reality!

CapnMac
July 21, 2011, 07:41 PM
One such item is for instance a laptop. Would it be equally prudent to lock a laptop in a safe

Well, as a matter of fact, both laptops and all three (ok, 2 and the parts queen) desktops have security cables fixing them to their "normal" locations. But, I own CAD software which is significantly more pricy than the hardware, too--do not want that walking off.

While it's obvious to any visitor I have IT stuff in more-than typical quantity, exactly what is there is also password (and biometric in a couple cases) protected. I've got 126-bit encryption on my wireless too, since I do not want my access used fo nefarious purposes.

Do I "hide" all this? Honestly, and this thread has given me reason to consider this, I think I mostly don't talk about much of this as far too many peoples' eyes glaze over during the explanation.

The question reveals the inquisitor, as the old saw goes. "Izzat a gun?" Gets, "No, it's a reminder." "Hey, is that a 1903?" Gets "No, it's a Paris-Dunne Trainer with a USN Mk I Bayonet, Training--it's a reminder of just how bad things can get before they get better."

hq
July 21, 2011, 08:02 PM
No offense but that doesn't really make sense. Just because something has a purpose doesn't mean somebody who sees it must feel they are compelled to use it for said purpose. A skirt is made to be worn but most guys don't feel compelled to cross dress when we see one.

My point was that these people claim (with a straight face) that some objects can only be used for malicious, evil and criminal purposes, which clearly isn't the case. All inanimate objects are just that, inanimate objects, and what they're used for is up to the person.

I use guns for hunting and target shooting. I even do some amateur gunsmithing. When someone tells me that guns can only be used to kill people, I feel compelled to disagree by pointing out that their opinion is only a reflection of their personal perception of reality, which in turn questions their beliefs directly. If they really can't think of any legal, harmless thing to do with said objects, I wouldn't blame the object.

There's plenty of evidence of widespread, legal use of firearms in the society. We're not talking about devices like medieval iron maidens that only have one predefined purpose.

Neverwinter
July 21, 2011, 09:48 PM
The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill. So be prepared to argue against that by the use of guns for sport, recreation and defense.
You can also point out that there are other things which are banned despite not having the anywhere near the dangerous potential of guns.

And why not use your arguement at church?
I think it is because churches and pedophilia are a sore subject for some people.

Byrd666
July 21, 2011, 10:23 PM
Nushif - Since my youngest experiences with firearms, girls, bikes- Harleys, cars, darts and pool, etc. I just figured I was a normal guy with normal hobbies. If that means I need to think of the fiscal challenges of/for each or any of my hobbies and think of the social stigma of any or all, then why would I bother going out the front door everyday?

As far as I'm concerned, society in the U.S.A. has become so fixated on the "right" of any subject that people have forgeten/don't want to see the real problem. This "p.c." crap is a barrier and or barricade that feeds the uninformed and or uneducated of "X"subject that to be a holder/owner/user/whatever is the worst possible thing in the world. If I remember correctly, information is dangerous, mis-information is deadly.

Old krow
July 21, 2011, 11:52 PM
Let's assume for a second someone has three handguns for 500 bucks each. That's 1.5k
Should that same person then conceal every hobby, physical investment and other easily accessible item under lock and key, or even more importantly secret?


I know of 2 robberies that have occurred here locally in the past couple of years. One was a substantial collection of firearms. I do not have any hobbies personally that get close to what that guy had stolen. Whether or not that those guys "advertising" their collection or not had anything to do with the theft is another question. This isn't newspaper stuff, I personally know both of them.

I have several hobbies; kayaking, camping, shooting, jeeps (maybe not a true hobby but they soak up the cash just the same). A kayak wouldn't necessarily be used in the commission of a crime should one get stolen. I personally do not think that I should be held accountable for criminal activity since I am a lawful gun owners and a law abiding citizen, but I'd rather not invite trouble.

Consider hobbies that include expensive collections such as coinage. There's no stigma in collecting coins, however, broadcasting exactly what you had to people that you didn't know should be done with scrutiny. Jewelery would fall along those same lines. Personally, I'd put them in the safe as well. I seriously doubt that I would tell most people about them unless I knew them fairly well. I'd likely admit to collecting, but that's really about as far as I'd go.

Comparing a laptop theft or a car theft to gun theft is comparing apples to cornflakes for the most part. My laptop, or more specifically its contents, can be stolen while I'm typing this reply. The only true "safe" way to keep a computer's contents safe is to keep it offline. That's just a risk we take. How many of us have more in the value of our computers than we do guns? Compared to some gun collection the cost of a laptop is insignificant.

A vehicle on the other hand is typically a substantial investment. I can't keep mine in the safe. Some people use a garage, some have alarms. That's really about the best that we can do. They can't be stolen and put inside of a coat pocket like a handgun could. A car theft typically doesn't involve the criminal being inside of my home.

Motorcycles require a mandatory course to operate here and usually cost significantly more to operate and own than a gun, but I rarely see motorcycle owners keeping mum about their motorcycle activities. And there is a similar stigma of recklessness and endangering of others there as well.

This is true, but, does a movement exist inside of the USA who's sole purpose is to ban motorcycles? If there is, and I don't doubt it at all, do they have the face time that the Brady Campaign has? Do they have politicians on board with their plan? What does the UN have to say about motorcycles in the US?

I'm not making an argument that we should conceal that we're gun enthusiast, just that it's a different playing field than other hobbies and/or fiscal investments. Personally, I don't hide it at all. If the anti-gun crowd works as hard as they do to create a stigma around gun ownership, we shouldn't ignore it, we should conquer it, but it at a minimum requires that we acknowledged that it exists.

Nushif
July 22, 2011, 12:20 AM
This is true, but, does a movement exist inside of the USA who's sole purpose is to ban motorcycles?

That is exactly what I was getting at. But the problem I perceive is not so much that movement, but that we are making it almost a shame in and of itself to not conform to the avoidance doctrine this very movement has created.

We have people here, telling others they'd better hide their toys, they'd better hide their guns, because they *might* be stolen and *might* be used in a crime. this isn't Brady folks. This is the very same community that keeps saying we ought to stand up for our rights and act like normal citizens that also ... says we need to lock up our toys because they're more special than other people's toys?

The same community that says we ought to be good examples of gun ownership says I ought not tell my neighbors? Or my family, at times?

And in a round-about sense, that's kind of what I wanted to talk about here. I mean, isn't it the slightest bit schizophrenic to say we need to further our sport and our liberties but hide them away in safe's worth thousands of dollars?

FourTeeFive
July 22, 2011, 12:27 AM
Same with many here, friends know I shoot, even though some aren't exactly "pro-gun". And I talk about it. However, I am careful to close the garage door when loading or unloading weapons, etc. And I'm in a very nice neighborhood. But to me guns are like fancy stereo equipment or nice jewelry. You don't flaunt where it is located to people you don't know.

As an aside, I live in Western Washington in a VERY liberal area. And have taken some very liberal people shooting. I don't think liberal voters are nearly as anti-gun as liberal politicians. Just an observation...

FourTeeFive
July 22, 2011, 12:32 AM
As a related note to all of this, I was at a friend of a friend's house for a party and we were in the basement rec room which had the usual pool table and bar. I see a short hallway and a door with a lock on it, and in the hallway is a display of a LOT of gun manufacturer lapel pins and badges. I didn't think too much of it but commented on it to the guy's wife and she said "oh yeah, he's got a whole room down there full of stuff. I don't go in there...". And that was that. I know they have a lot of money and I know this guy likes very nice things, so I can only imagine what was in that room. But I've never heard her once mention him shooting and I only met him once, briefly. I think he keeps his gun world and her world separate.

Guy B. Meredith
July 22, 2011, 05:27 AM
There IS social stigma attached to firearms ownership in many areas of the country, though I think it peaked with Clinton and has been waning since the Democrats ran into trouble riding that horse.

Until recently I lived in the SF Bay area of California and worked for Xerox. Most of my co workers and a majority of our customers sang in the Pellosi/Boxer choir so I did not make a point of mentioning my interest in firearms. Many of the people who react badly to firearms have arbitrary attitudes (prejudices) about other things as well and they are difficult enough to work with without locking their sphincters up by mentioning firearms.

Otherwise, my greatest concern is theft. I do not advertise other possessions of value, either. I used to have an NRA sticker on my car but decided that was advertising for theft.

22-rimfire
July 22, 2011, 05:35 AM
I don't concern myself with any sort of social stigma. I keep my ownership of firearms generally low key because of theft and other criminal activity. The same applies to how much cash I carry with me daily or have at home, and ownership of other valuables (jewelry, art, coin collections, ammunition, ... you name it; it is all the same stuff that I move personally when I move from one house to another.)

Jonah71
July 22, 2011, 09:16 AM
In a town of 3000 where a very large segment of the population carry, I don't give it a second thought. Nor do I care about the opinions of any anti gun liberals. Pretty scarce around here anyway. So are criminals.

FourTeeFive
July 22, 2011, 10:15 AM
Until recently I lived in the SF Bay area of California and worked for Xerox. Most of my co workers and a majority of our customers sang in the Pellosi/Boxer choir so I did not make a point of mentioning my interest in firearms. Many of the people who react badly to firearms have arbitrary attitudes (prejudices) about other things as well and they are difficult enough to work with without locking their sphincters up by mentioning firearms.

Isn't it interesting how people who think they are "liberal" are really prejudiced about certain things? I guess their mirrors work differently than mine...

Old krow
July 22, 2011, 12:46 PM
We have people here, telling others they'd better hide their toys, they'd better hide their guns, because they *might* be stolen and *might* be used in a crime.

That is exactly what I was getting at. But the problem I perceive is not so much that movement, but that we are making it almost a shame in and of itself to not conform to the avoidance doctrine this very movement has created.

Yes, I'd agree that this does indeed happen. It's really two separate issues though isn't it? We might have chosen a "one size fits all solution" but, the issue social stigma and the issue of security are really two different issues.

Human nature is human nature and there's little that we can do about that other than to figure out how to work around it. When you first meet someone you're more likely to form an opinion of the person based on what you see, like their hobbies. Conversely, after you know someone you're more likely to form an opinion of the hobby (assuming that you knew little or nothing about it firsthand) based at least partially on the person. This wouldn't really be "the rule" but the odds are higher that you'll have more influence in RKBA issues if the person that you're talking to deems you a "good person" before the conversation takes place. You always going to meet someone that absolutely hates guns no matter what you do, but, other times it makes a difference. Some take this approach. There are a lot of folks out there that introduce people to shooting and take new shooters to the range all the time. This is of course just my opinion on the matter, but if that is the approach that one takes, there's typically some amount of discretion involved. I think that some of the "generally keep it low key" or "discuss only with people I know" answer would fall into this category.

In the past I have had a lot of different reactions. Most weren't negative, some were. If we're going to promote RKBA that's the cost if doing business.

On the issue of theft, it does happen. I'm not responsible for anybody else's home and security, so I have little to say about the measures that they take to protect it except that I think they are 2 different issues. Personally, I think that if we addressed these as separate issues, even though it seems at times that we use the same solution for both, we would get a little farther in promoting the RKBA. Just my .02.

Kingofthehill
July 22, 2011, 12:54 PM
after my trip to San Jose last x-mas, i removed the NRA sticker on my laptop. When they saw that they pulled me aside asking questions about it. They made a lot of effort to make me sound like an evil person for owning guns and displaying an NRA sticker on my laptop.

I keep gun ownership/collecting/shooting quite when at work, and now i won't even display a sticker on any personal items while traveling by air.

i hate that it is that way but those idiots with wands have too much power for their own good.

Nushif
July 22, 2011, 01:05 PM
Personally, I think that if we addressed these as separate issues, even though it seems at times that we use the same solution for both, we would get a little farther in promoting the RKBA.

That is some pretty good stuff there.

How would you picture, in a perfect world of course to somehow not equate locking your guns up for fear of theft and locking your guns away for fear of "people knowing?"

It's a tough question I realize and I am thinking about it, myself, but I do think that this is the core of the dichotomy here.

One ought to be a good stewart and ambassador to private ownership, but one ought to also keep mum about even owning guns? I don't see this as compatible, and I do think that this is a problem.

Guy B. Meredith
July 22, 2011, 02:22 PM
I agree with Old krow to a large extent.

I keep the firearms interest on the back burner so that doesn't get in the way of people recognizing that I am a "good" person. When I know what the relationship to the person is I may introduce them to my interests.

If they are fellow enthusiasts we can then have a good conversation. If they are someone I value they can see that "good" people are owners and I can build from there.

If they are likely to be prejudiced against firearms ownership and I need to deal with them for business or such I co not mention my interests.

I have had a couple of surprises when I've misjudged this second group. I assumed PIXAR to be a den of prejudice only to find firearms photos and info openly displayed in the IT offices. Had a great conversation after that. The second is that I have a habit of assuming that gays are in "that" liberal class and avoided firearms conversation with a good friend who is lesbian. One day at lunch she voluntarily came up with the comment that she wanted to shoot a gun. Excellent conversation and day at the range after that.

If people turn out to be a pain in the arse and I don't need to be diplomatic then I will express my opinions openly when the conversation goes that way and let them deal with it.

DAP90
July 22, 2011, 02:25 PM
We have people here, telling others they'd better hide their toys, they'd better hide their guns, because they *might* be stolen and *might* be used in a crime. this isn't Brady folks. This is the very same community that keeps saying we ought to stand up for our rights and act like normal citizens that also ... says we need to lock up our toys because they're more special than other people's toys?

Thereís a difference between cautioning people not to give too many details regarding what you have for guns and admitting that youíre a shooter. Guns are a high value target for theft. Itís a fact. They are valuable, portable and in demand.


One ought to be a good stewart and ambassador to private ownership, but one ought to also keep mum about even owning guns? I don't see this as compatible, and I do think that this is a problem.

Iíd say itís more a case of knowing what to say to a given person. If you have someone whoís receptive, be a good ambassador. If youíre not sure you can trust a given person (maybe you get a bad vibe) then maybe not mention you have a large collection of handguns during your firearms conversations. If a person is a true anti, then pick your battles. ďNever argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference.Ē

FourTeeFive
July 22, 2011, 03:28 PM
I work for a large Indian company and a while back was in the home office (in India) meeting with colleagues and an Australian business partner. The topic of guns came up at lunch and someone asked me if I owned any guns. I said yes and everyone at the table went quiet for a second and looked at me like I had grown a third eye.

Whenever I've talked about guns in the UK I've gotten a lot of positive response and, frankly, envy. Most of the guys want to go shooting when they visit the USA.

I'm not making an argument that we should conceal that we're gun enthusiast, just that it's a different playing field than other hobbies and/or fiscal investments.

Agreed.

FourTeeFive
July 22, 2011, 03:38 PM
This is the very same community that keeps saying we ought to stand up for our rights and act like normal citizens that also ... says we need to lock up our toys because they're more special than other people's toys?

And you'll probably find the same attitude going to a Porsche or Ducati owner's forum.

Like it or not we own items that have a high perceived value with the criminal element.

FourNineFoxtrot
July 22, 2011, 04:30 PM
I think this is almost more a personality issue than anything else. Some people are very outgoing and gregarious and talk about their hobbies with people all the time, often to people they don't know very well. That's fine.

I'm not an outgoing person at all. I keep to myself mostly, and don't discuss my private life, hobbies, and so forth, unless prompted and even then only if I feel comfortable about it. So if somebody brought up the subject I would be willing to discuss it, but I don't volunteer anything. That's just how I am. It's got nothing to do with social stigmas, probably a bit to do with theft-deterrent, but mainly it's a consequence of being a very private person.

JustinJ
July 22, 2011, 05:27 PM
Remember, it's hard to argue about responsible gun ownership if our weapons are frequently being stolen and ending up in the hands of criminals. Not to say we shouldnt try to share our hobby, in fact we definitely should for the sake of gun rights, but in a wise way.

22-rimfire
July 22, 2011, 05:45 PM
I share my hobby with people of similar interests. As a result, I seldom have to watch my backside. Guns are an indication of wealth and a burglar could probably make a reasonable guess that if you have a lot of guns, you more than likely have a lot of other easily sellable stuff. Even 4 or 5 guns is a pretty good haul for a thief.

Even if I could trust eveyone, I still would not share information about my accumulations.

dec41971
July 23, 2011, 12:08 AM
One of my best friends constantly berates gun ownership says you only have one to kill people no other point. I know this guy 21yrs! He has no idea about my pro-2A believes because I think he is a hopeless case. Opinionated to the point you can't talk any sense into him. That, plus I really don't care for arguements with people over guns. Imagine if these folks knew, it worse than just stigma, they'd think I lost it. :evil:

Old krow
July 23, 2011, 12:57 AM
How would you picture, in a perfect world of course to somehow not equate locking your guns up for fear of theft and locking your guns away for fear of "people knowing?"

Security of our firearms will always be an issue. There's little that we can do to control the criminal element in society. Even if we could, the gears of change would be slow. The fact that we do take the extra means to secure our firearms makes us that much more credible to those whom have not formed a concrete opinion based on misinformation, fear, and mass hysteria. Of course there will always be those who will not listen to reason.

Thereís a difference between cautioning people not to give too many details regarding what you have for guns and admitting that youíre a shooter.

I think that this sums it up pretty well.

If we're in the "closet", we've put ourselves there. I think that it is a fair assessment to say that the majority of the stigma comes from two places; politicians and the media. It's been said on this forum before that we shouldn't tie a political affiliation to our RKBA. I believe that this sound logic.

Here's something to look at. The biggest single face in the shooting world is the NRA. Whether you like, dislike, agree, or disagree, they're a major player in the RKBA. If I have my numbers right, there are roughly 4.3 million members? Total gun ownership is roughly 80 million... give or take a couple million? So, there are over 75 million gun owners out there that don't join for one reason or another. How much of that social stigma? How much is apathy?

Ask yourself one question and answer it honestly. If all 80 million joined and all 80 million sported the "I'm the NRA and I vote" bumper sticker, how would the stigma situation look then? If one in four cars had that bumper sticker, would we feel isolated? Some would due to where they live, but on average how would that work out? How would the demographics look then? If we concede that our NRA bumper stickers raise our odds of being robbed, shouldn't we also concede that more gun ownership equals more crime? If every gun owner joined, we could no longer say that they're politically biased can we? Would that help or hurt the stigma? Okay, so that was more than more than one question... :D

Just something to think about.

DH999
July 24, 2011, 07:31 PM
It's totally dependent on where you live / work. I work in New York City in a corporate office and it is clearly not a good a idea to be talking about shooting and firearms in my office. I'm not about to do it to make a point as it would obviously be out of place in this setting (given that most people in NYC have no experience with guns and gun ownership). It would make people nervous and it would be career limiting for me to do so.

Now in the South and many many other parts of the country things are very different.

Guy B. Meredith
July 24, 2011, 07:49 PM
*Sigh* Things go in cycles and hopefully we are on the track to enlightenment. Pre 2001 I got a complement on this shirt as I got off a flight. Now I couldn't get on the airplane wearing it.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
July 24, 2011, 08:28 PM
I keep things on the down low---mostly to prevent theft--secondly its nobody's business on what I do or don't do---and I live in a good area.

Nothing comes out of the car until the garage door is shut----this includes groceries or even lunch from McDonalds.

Even when I bought my flat screen TV---the box didn't go to the curb---I loaded in the car and stuck it in the dumpster at my old apts.

Nushif
July 24, 2011, 09:02 PM
I keep things on the down low---mostly to prevent theft--secondly its nobody's business on what I do or don't do---and I live in a good area.

Nothing comes out of the car until the garage door is shut----this includes groceries or even lunch from McDonalds.

Even when I bought my flat screen TV---the box didn't go to the curb---I loaded in the car and stuck it in the dumpster at my old apts.

This is a particularly stark reminder of what I am thinking about.

I understand some measures to prevent theft but I honestly have to say ... what are you so scared of?!
I understand OpSec ... (cracks me up every time) at least I better, but this is bordering on something that would have you be an outcast in all circles I have ever lived in. "That creepy neighbor" I think is the vernacular.

You don't get responses like that when you deal with your neighbors? (If you deal with your neighbors) or within your community? Maybe I have only ever lived in close knit communities, but behavior like that is more suspicious than anything else.

DC Plumber
July 24, 2011, 09:19 PM
I don't like to display things..........., can't find the exact words, but I see muscle bound guys wearing shirts with the sleeves cut off, showing off their tattoos, women with big breasts, wearing skimpy low cut shirts (not that I'm not looking), but I like to fly below the radar. I'm not ashamed of my guns, I'm not scared, foolish, weak or any of the other adjectives used in previous posts, I just choose not to display. I'm 6'4" and 230 lbs. and could whoop most people walking down the street, but I don't show off my build, I don't play loud music with my window rolled down, I have a tattoo but don't cut off my sleeves and show off my muscles with my tattoo on them. I have a modified truck with lots of power, but it's a sleeper. No big stacks, no mag tires, no stickers. Am I ashamed of my brand of truck? No, I just like to lay low, fly below the radar.

Now before anyone goes off on me, I don't look down on anyone who does something different than me, but don't think I'm a slouch or a dweeb because I don't flaunt what I got. My wife is well built, but she's a conservative dresser and drives a plain family car with the kids in tow.

Some people like to display, others don't. I'm one that doesn't.

feedthehogs
July 25, 2011, 07:22 AM
I keep the firearms interest on the back burner so that doesn't get in the way of people recognizing that I am a "good" person

You need better friends.

There are two types of gun owners.
Those who read all the magazines, peruse the internet, get dressed up in the latest tac gear for a trip to the range, think mag pul is better than women, dry fire in front of the mirror, try and impress their friends with the latest info they learned on the net about an SKS and parade out their guns to who ever will sit still long enough to listen.

Those who use their guns for the purpose of getting food, recognize it as a tool, never use the word tactical, don't throw lead down the range just to hear the gun go boom and don't have to practice 3 times a week because they hit what they aim at every year they go hunting or the rare occasion they visit the range with a new purchase.

The former worries about social stigma and probably has face book, twitter and a host of other social media accounts.

The later will tell an anti gun person to kiss their a@@ if you don't like guns and uses a safe because they recognize that a safe is a wise investment given the drug addicted whinners the last few generations have produced..

Nushif
July 25, 2011, 01:45 PM
The later will tell an anti gun person to kiss their a@@ if you don't like guns and uses a safe because they recognize that a safe is a wise investment given the drug addicted whinners the last few generations have produced..

The former also uses terminology like LOL when reading stuff like your rant.

Owen Sparks
July 25, 2011, 02:19 PM
A safe is a wise investment against fire and theft IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH GUNS TO JUSTIFY THE EXPENSE. But I don't want the government to tell me that I have to buy one because of what some criminal might do. After all, isn't it the job of the police to make sure that nobody breaks into my house and steals my guns?

blakeci
July 25, 2011, 04:33 PM
You need better friends.

There are two types of gun owners.
Those who read all the magazines, peruse the internet, get dressed up in the latest tac gear for a trip to the range, think mag pul is better than women, dry fire in front of the mirror, try and impress their friends with the latest info they learned on the net about an SKS and parade out their guns to who ever will sit still long enough to listen.

Those who use their guns for the purpose of getting food, recognize it as a tool, never use the word tactical, don't throw lead down the range just to hear the gun go boom and don't have to practice 3 times a week because they hit what they aim at every year they go hunting or the rare occasion they visit the range with a new purchase.

The former worries about social stigma and probably has face book, twitter and a host of other social media accounts.

The later will tell an anti gun person to kiss their a@@ if you don't like guns and uses a safe because they recognize that a safe is a wise investment given the drug addicted whinners the last few generations have produced..
I beg to differ, there are a large number of gun owners that don't fit into those two narrow classifications.
I for one,
do not hunt,
do not see guns as merely tools, but as mechanical and historical marvels to savor
don't care for tactical, or polymer
don't give a damn about "impressing" my friends
Go to the range 2 or 3 times a month just to enjoy my firearms,
I do play Call of Duty religiously
I don't engage in "tactical" training,
I am not preparing for some mythical SHTF senario, while at the same time I don't have any problem with people having as many 30 round mags, ammo, and Ak's or AR's as they can fit in their house.
I have a Curio and Relic federal license
I am a collector of the odd, old, or unusual firearms, especially pre-war .32autos

I'm only 26, married, own my own home, and have a child on the way. Not exactly one of those two categories? There are more to gun owners than either being a Mall ninja, or a Fudd.

DAP90
July 25, 2011, 04:42 PM
After all, isn't it the job of the police to make sure that nobody breaks into my house and steals my guns?

No, not really. Weíd need a lot more police in that case. Personally Iíll pass on the more police option and take responsibility for my own house.

W.E.G.
July 25, 2011, 04:42 PM
I pretty much judge anybody who doesn't own at least one gun as being socially stigmatized.

I immediately want nothing to do with those sorts.

Poverty is the only reasonable justification,... and then only if the person has a plan for prompt rectification of their social shortcoming.

jackpinesavages
July 25, 2011, 04:50 PM
Well, I tell ya, I just basically lost what I thought was a good friend because his wife hates guns. I mean she wants little-to-nothing to do with firearm people. Period, and she extended that BS control mongering crap to my friend and his associations with guys. I know, you're probably thinkin; "Well he wasn't much of a friend to start with then." He's pretty much screwed in the middle of all her crap, after they started having kids. He is literally lucky to still have a motorcycle-those are unsafe too you know.

So, it's a bad spot to be in, losing a friend over a single issue (guns) which could have been avoided had he given her the boot about 12 months ago! :cuss:

hq
July 25, 2011, 05:20 PM
So, it's a bad spot to be in, losing a friend over a single issue (guns) which could have been avoided had he given her the boot about 12 months ago! :cuss:

Virtually all of my friends hunt and/or shoot, many also collect guns. Anti-gun girlfriends seldom stick around for long and those who do, convert. It's the same thing as with gundogs, getting one from a hunting line breed is always a good idea. :D

Strange thing I've noticed is that the better they're educated, the more willing they are to try new things including hunting and target shooting. There are quite a few PhD:s, MD:s, DSc:s etc. among my friends' wives who currently shoot and hunt but didn't (yet) when they met their future spouses. My wife's one of them. It may have something to do with ability to think rationally instead of holding on to strong but unfounded beliefs.

ChCx2744
June 18, 2012, 07:25 AM
Sorry for the necrothreadia, but I believe that more needs to be discussed on this issue. The topic relating to the social stigma related to gun ownership and the generalization of people with little experience around guns is a touchy subject, especially nowadays. I would really like for more people to chime in and offer their opinions and experiences on how they would handle situations where our lifestyle choices would come into questioning.

I guess my take on it goes a little something like this: I think that there is most definitely some sort of social stigma related to guns in general. Now just to let it be known, the demographics in conjunction with the geographical location of where we live has a big part to do with how people act in terms of guns and related things. I live in the south, but close to a fairly urban, liberal area; you'd be surprised at how liberally-minded and anti-gun people are around here. With all the "evil-ization" the media and press portrays with gun-related anything, I believe it is a grave injustice done to those of us who embrace the freedom offered by legal ownership protected under the 2nd Amendment. Many of my friends are not gun owners nor have they had much experience around guns, let alone shoot them. I've been the target of many jokes, anything from being compared to the Virginia Tech shooter (Which really strikes a nerve) to a terrorist. They claim they are joking, but I know they make the same remarks behind my back when I'm not around, which has actually made me become more distant from those who say such things. There are many people out there who, just by the aspect of owning a gun alone, believe that us gun owners are a different class of human being that is almost looked down upon.

I'm not a person who openly brings up the topic of guns or shooting, but if someone else brings it up, I'll have an intelligent discussion about it. I've had pretty negative reactions from people that "think" they are my friends, but I don't really see them as such anymore because of such conflicting views. I've lived long enough to harden my opinions and views, therefore I'm not going to change who I am and what I believe in, just to fit in with a crowd or try to be liked by a certain group of people. At the same time, it's pointless to try and explain your take on it and convert them. From experience, it's better to live and let live, rather than waste your breathe trying to preach to the ignorant. I've tried the whole justification and Constitutional right thing and they sit there and retaliate with non-sense, literal, non-sense that they "hear on TV" or some crap. These people are useless bumps on a log if you ask me. I'd rather associate myself with a chosen few, than to purposely fake who I am in order to try and be liked by everyone. Those kinds of people are what I refer to as tools.

Anyways...Some very interesting things I've read so far. Let's keep them coming.

AirForceShooter
June 18, 2012, 07:32 AM
When I lived and worked in NYC I never told anyone I had even a single gun.

When I arrived in florida I didn't care who knew.

AFS

Resist Evil
June 18, 2012, 07:49 AM
I have had the privilege of being laid off from my job because of my First and Second Amendment rights being exercised. My termination had nothing to do with my job performance.

Liberals have taken food from my family's table on the basis of my ownership and use of firearms.

valnar
June 18, 2012, 08:30 AM
For centuries, some of the most traded and valuable commodities have been gold, silver, jewels...and arms. It's no different today. You need to lock them up like any other valuable.

That's pretty much my reason for not talking about it much, unless the subject comes up. And even then, I lie about how many guns I have (Oh...I just have a few that I shoot. 'Nuthin fancy).

19&41
June 18, 2012, 08:34 AM
In response to post #132, that offers a thoughtful appraisal of what most firearm owners in urban areas face, I have to agree that there are always those who find firearms repellent, or those who feel that firearms should be made illegal, (yet would keep the firearm they own in spite of this) I have long since given up trying to derive some logic from such rote beliefs. Most of the people I work with are such people, but we work together and have been friendly towards one another for a long while now. it comes up from time to time that I own firearms and now they know me enough to consider that I have no evil motive behind my firearm ownership. Some even ask about some of the firearms laws they see brought up in the slam pieces they see in the papers and TV. I cultivate my friendships with those who share my interests, and stay open to those who don't. And ignore those that won't. Live the life and enjoy it, you have the right. Remember that.

Wanderling
June 18, 2012, 11:51 AM
I live in a middle class suburb of a large metropolitan area. All kinds of people. I know quite a few people who don't like guns. Most of them appear perfectly content with me owning one. The vast majority of them either have no use for guns / are uncomfortable around them, or are afraid to keep guns in the house with kids. There's probably just one girl I know who's very anti as a matter of principle. She has many weird ideas and is not generally taken seriously by the rest of our friends. And politically, the circle of people I interact with are all over the map, from flaming liberals to staunch conservatives and everything in between.

That said, I don't want to advertise having guns. I don't want my house broken into.

Skribs
June 18, 2012, 12:03 PM
The vast majority of them either have no use for guns

Protection of oneself is a use for guns that everyone shares.

I don't know why there's this stigma, and it is part of why I'm looking at OC soon (but I figure starting to OC is like your first time wearing a Speedo, so I'm a bit nervous still). I realized that I don't care what random strangers think, but what would the people who I know think? i.e. I used to work at Albertson's, so I am very well acquainted with most of the employees there. I didn't carry then, and didn't talk about guns much at work there, so what will they think when I start OCing?

Just what I've been thinking about lately regarding this. I wish we lived in a time where gun ownership wasn't something a lot of people are almost embarassed about.

Wanderling
June 18, 2012, 01:15 PM
Protection of oneself is a use for guns that everyone shares.

I don't know why there's this stigma, and it is part of why I'm looking at OC soon (but I figure starting to OC is like your first time wearing a Speedo, so I'm a bit nervous still). I realized that I don't care what random strangers think, but what would the people who I know think? i.e. I used to work at Albertson's, so I am very well acquainted with most of the employees there. I didn't carry then, and didn't talk about guns much at work there, so what will they think when I start OCing?

Just what I've been thinking about lately regarding this. I wish we lived in a time where gun ownership wasn't something a lot of people are almost embarassed about.

When I say they "have no use" I mean they don't see themselves ever owning a gun. Not that there's no use for the guns.

"Stigma" - well, if one wants to avoid being stigmatized, one needs to avoid ideologically driven idiot zealots regardless of their political beliefs. A die hard extreme Republican / conservative is just as bad as a die hard extreme Democrat / liberal. Or libertarian. Same arrogant uncompromising hostile mindset, just different set of beliefs.

gym
June 18, 2012, 02:10 PM
I really give it no importance whatsoever to people whose opinion I don't value on anything else,why would I value the way they think about how I live my life.Compared to most of them I am an bad guy or a person who intends seek trouble, just because I carry, It only becomes an issue if you allow it to, and if you tell them. The defensive end of a point is always a bad choice. My advice is to not engage groups of people who feel that you are in the wrong by having guns, When they say they have no use for them, instead of pointing out the millions of innocent people slaughtered in past years, just agree with them.
I have protected the lives of people who thought like that, and only then did they understand why you carry a gun
Tell them that their moral high ground will surelly save them if and when forces beyond their control come calling.you can never or almost never make a rational point when a group is in agreement that you are wrong and they are right. They feed off of each others energy. You will only get frustrated, my advice is to avoid it at and save it for another time.

Neverwinter
June 18, 2012, 02:45 PM
I really give it no importance whatsoever to people whose opinion I don't value on anything else,why would I value the way they think about how I live my life.Compared to most of them I am an bad guy or a person who intends seek trouble, just because I carry, It only becomes an issue if you allow it to, and if you tell them. The defensive end of a point is always a bad choice. My advice is to not engage groups of people who feel that you are in the wrong by having guns,
It only makes sense to engage them in a situation where there may be others that might be swayed by their misinformation. As long as I can catch then on their inconsistencies or demonstrate the consequences of their position as undesirable to observers, I can walk away satisfied.

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JohnM
June 18, 2012, 02:49 PM
Just can't imagine living someplace where there could be a "stigma" attached to gun ownership.

kimberkid
June 18, 2012, 05:29 PM
You don't have kids in school then do you?

Its not just about your kid either ... kids have friends over and kids talk.

We live in a fairly conservative town but even then I don't want to be thought of as a "gun nut" ... whether I am or not :) for that reason I have my own room for my safe, storage, reloading and such, which I keep secured when there are slumber parties and what-not.

JohnM
June 18, 2012, 05:41 PM
I don't, but this is gun country.
I only know of one house in the whole valley without at least 1 and generally many more firearms.
I'll stay here and let others put up with it.

Texan Scott
June 18, 2012, 05:44 PM
Anti-gun stigma in rural Texas? Well, there's a social stigma associated with BEING anti-gun... (Imagine 'King of the Hill's' Boomhauer mumbling something ending in "danged ol' hippies!").
Still, I don't ADVERTISE the fact. My friends know. Nobody I don't consider a friend has "NEED TO KNOW". They can assume I own guns... here they probably OUGHT to assume I have a gun in the house. But I'm not offering any details, or confirmation/ denial. It's none of their business. (Gol dur numeen annyfaram jhis sehr oihh, NO SIR, woihz immer cludda DANG'D OL' HIPPIES!)

Wanderling
June 18, 2012, 05:47 PM
You don't have kids in school then do you?

Its not just about your kid either ... kids have friends over and kids talk.

We live in a fairly conservative town but even then I don't want to be thought of as a "gun nut" ... whether I am or not :) for that reason I have my own room for my safe, storage, reloading and such, which I keep secured when there are slumber parties and what-not.
It's not about being a "gun nut".

One reason people may have for not wanting any guns in their house which I completely understand is kids.

You can't simply say "Hey if your kids got hold of the weapon it's your fault, you need to exercise proper caution". Yes it's a true statement. It also has zero value. Accidents and screw ups do happen and assigning blame post-factum is pointless and doesn't change the outcome.

You can't also say "if you teach your kids how to handle guns they will be safer around them". Again, this is only partially true. Yes they will know how to operate guns in a safe manner. Still, kids are unpredictable, even the best, most well taught and behaved ones can have a temporary lapse of judgement. (Even adults can ;) ). Especially if they have friends over and want to brag.

All one can do is weigh the chances, probabilities, your ability to keep things safe and locked up, your kids' past history of behaving rationally (which will change once the hormones kick in) etc. But that's the decision every family needs to make for themselves. So if someone doesn't want guns in the house because they're concerned that their kids could get hold of them, I fully understand.

As to keeping your guns secure - you don't do it so that people didn't call you a "gun nut". You do it so that nobody gets hurt. Kids in the house ==== no easy access to guns.

Just can't imagine living someplace where there could be a "stigma" attached to gun ownership.

Try San Francisco ;) I guess I am fairly liberal compared to the typical THR crowd (I prefer to call myself a moderate) but SF was way too much for me. Makes Ann Arbor look like some Bible Belt town by comparison.

Skribs
June 18, 2012, 06:02 PM
Accidents and screw ups do happen and assigning blame post-factum is pointless and doesn't change the outcome.

I've never agreed with this. I don't believe you should try and guilt-trip the people at fault, but accidents or attacks are always a learning experience. We constantly talk all the time in this forum, when someone says "this is the situation I was in", what could have been done differently to prevent that situation. What this does is show how NEXT time someone can do something different to prevent another tragedy.

You can't also say "if you teach your kids how to handle guns they will be safer around them". Again, this is only partially true. Yes they will know how to operate guns in a safe manner. Still, kids are unpredictable, even the best, most well taught and behaved ones can have a temporary lapse of judgement. (Even adults can ). Especially if they have friends over and want to brag.

This is true. However, while a lot of people choose not to have guns because of kids, think about it this way - if someone breaks in, wouldn't you want the best tool available to defend your kids? I know I would.

As to keeping your guns secure - you don't do it so that people didn't call you a "gun nut". You do it so that nobody gets hurt. Kids in the house ==== no easy access to guns.

Yes and no. It's also to prevent theft. However, a lot of people CCW to prevent being known as a gun owner for fear someone will break in and use their gun against them in their sleep. Personally, I know everyone has kitchen knives, and those would be just as easy to use on a sleeping person, so I'm not worried if people know I have guns.

Wanderling
June 18, 2012, 06:12 PM
I've never agreed with this. I don't believe you should try and guilt-trip the people at fault, but accidents or attacks are always a learning experience. We constantly talk all the time in this forum, when someone says "this is the situation I was in", what could have been done differently to prevent that situation. What this does is show how NEXT time someone can do something different to prevent another tragedy.

This is all true. What I was talking about is the people who dismiss concerns others have about having guns in the house with kids by saying, basically, that if you do everything right there's nothing to worry about, and if you don't then it's "your fault, not the gun's". I am sure you met such attitude in person or online. This does nothing to address the main underlying concern - that your having a firearm in the house with kids is going to create a potential hazard. This is something only the family in question can decide.



This is true. However, while a lot of people choose not to have guns because of kids, think about it this way - if someone breaks in, wouldn't you want the best tool available to defend your kids? I know I would.

Again, this is all dependent on particular factors for a particular family, I don't think there's a cut and dry answer.

I am merely saying not all fears of having guns in the house are unfounded, certainly not when there are kids involved. Definitely not fair to label these people as "antis" or "misinformed".

Yes and no. It's also to prevent theft. However, a lot of people CCW to prevent being known as a gun owner for fear someone will break in and use their gun against them in their sleep. Personally, I know everyone has kitchen knives, and those would be just as easy to use on a sleeping person, so I'm not worried if people know I have guns.

Skribs
June 18, 2012, 06:23 PM
This does nothing to address the main underlying concern - that your having a firearm in the house with kids is going to create a potential hazard.

We differ in our thinking here, because I do agree that it introduces a hazard. But that is why I like to analyze what happened and what could have happened differently leading up to it (that is in control of the homeowner/firearm owner) to prevent it from happening. Because with as many firearms as are in the US, there's a lot of hazards.

I am merely saying not all fears of having guns in the house are unfounded, certainly not when there are kids involved. Definitely not fair to label these people as "antis" or "misinformed".

I get what you're saying, but I still think that the kids are generally used as a shield. They might legitimately be concerned about their kids, but if they thought about why most people nowadays are starting to think about getting a gun (personal protection), they'd realize that its even more important to protect your family.

Guy B. Meredith
June 18, 2012, 08:28 PM
Wanderling, most of the current crop of "Progressives" that label themselves liberal are not liberal--at least in the classic sense. A classic liberal is accepting of other views.

I recently moved from the SF Bay area after living there and working the whole area for 18 years. I will agree the SF folk are more than a bit much. They are very self centered people who have come to believe that they can declare how the world will function. God help them when they step outside the little bubble that provides life support for that mind set.

And God help us as they try to force everyone and everything into their preconceived mold.

Wanderling
June 18, 2012, 09:08 PM
Wanderling, most of the current crop of "Progressives" that label themselves liberal are not liberal--at least in the classic sense. A classic liberal is accepting of other views.

I recently moved from the SF Bay area after living there and working the whole area for 18 years. I will agree the SF folk are more than a bit much. They are very self centered people who have come to believe that they can declare how the world will function. God help them when they step outside the little bubble that provides life support for that mind set.

And God help us as they try to force everyone and everything into their preconceived mold.

Luckily, they didn't look like they could force a finger through a wet napkin. Nothing that takes any long term planning, perseverance, or anything that looks like work.

I did enjoy seeing a guy with a piece of cardboard that read "Kick me in the butt - $3". Unfortunately, I had neither three singles nor a camera with me at the moment.

Sam1911
June 18, 2012, 09:44 PM
Enough of that noise.

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