Who's right - me or the wife?


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wow6599
July 19, 2011, 11:36 PM
I have a FNP 45 USG that I leave on the nightstand every single night. We have a 4 1/2 year old son who sometimes comes to our room during the night to crawl in bed with us......parents know what I'm talking about.

Anyway.....

My 45 is NOT chambered, has the safety on and takes a lot of strength to rack the slide (chamber a round). Also DA/SA for those who don't know about the gun. Here in the St. Louis area a police officer just had his child die of a self inflected gunshot wound (to that I am very sorry) and my wife say's she wants my "gun" locked-up from now on........I said no. I asked her to take the safety off and rack the slide - she couldn't.

My questions is this - am I wrong to think it's safe to keep the FNP by the bed, not chambered, with the safety on? There is no way he can rack it, and again - the safety is on. Every morning the pistol goes back in the closet safe........
What do you all think?

p.s. - I already know it's a personal thing......just wondering what others think about my reasoning.

Below is the link -
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/07/19/officers-three-year-old-son-dies/

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Steel Talon
July 19, 2011, 11:43 PM
Keep the wife happy.. It dosnt take much to open up a lock box..Why take a chance with your kids as your wife worries about.. It's still part of keeping your flock safe.

pacerdude
July 19, 2011, 11:44 PM
That's a tough choice, a compromise might be one of those quick access safes like a gunvault on the nightstand. Then you can have your gun loaded and ready to go, but its still secured in a safe.

Also for what its worth my girlfriend has already informed me that she wants my gun locked up in my safe as well. I have one of the gunvaults so thats my solution. We dont live together though and have no kids, so the gun stays on the nightstand for now.

Good luck with your dilemma.

esheato
July 19, 2011, 11:44 PM
I think it's foolish to leave it out in the open when you're sleeping. Especially if you know he'll be in the room at some point. Put it in the drawer (out of sight out of mind), get a GunVault (http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safes/mini-mini-deluxe.html) or something.

How would you feel if you woke up to him touching it? Or him pulling it off the nightstand because he saw it and was curious? Exactly.

DammitBoy
July 19, 2011, 11:45 PM
You must not have been married too long. Us veterans know the answer is the wife is always right.

Telekinesis
July 19, 2011, 11:51 PM
At a certain point, the wife is always right... :evil:

Personally, I'd put the pistol in a holster (open top is fine, just something to cover the trigger) and probably put it in a drawer in the night stand if that's possible (it might keep your kid from thinking about it, ya know out of sight, out of mind and all that).

I asked her to take the safety off and rack the slide - she couldn't.

Also, I don't think its a very good idea to have a first line HD pistol that your wife can't physically use. (If you can't chamber a round or clear a malfunction, you shouldn't use it as a defensive pistol at all). Your gun is your gun, and I wouldn't advise you to change your carry gun, but I do think it'd be a good idea to at least have another gun available that she is able to use too.

firemanstrickland
July 19, 2011, 11:51 PM
Well, as oppose to the rest, I dont think there is anything wrong here. If he cant rack the slide then he cant have an accident. plain and simple, all you have left is to teach your son not to touch your weapon. Good luck with your wife though, I know how tough of a battle that is.

philoe
July 19, 2011, 11:55 PM
What Dammit said. Go and get a pistol safe for $60 and the worst possible scenario should be avoided. BTW it doesn't take but 4 secs to get your pistol out. If that's not enough time, you were probably screwed anyways.

Mal H
July 19, 2011, 11:55 PM
Who's right - me or the wife?
The wife. Now what was the question again?


Oh, right, keeping a loaded (chambered or not) firearm in open sight with a toddler in the house. The wife is still right. Some may disagree, but I think it's best to keep firearms at least out of sight and inaccessible to them until the kids are old enough to understand them more rationally.

wow6599
July 19, 2011, 11:57 PM
all you have left is to teach your son not to touch your weapon

That has already happened. Trust me, he knows that I don't play around with him touching any firearm. He's a smart little guy and follows directions.

Again, not with a round chambered and the safety is on. I would NEVER do this with a Glock, M&P, Kahr, etc.

thefamcnaj
July 19, 2011, 11:59 PM
This is tough. With a mobile youngster in the house, you can never be to careful. There are so many "what if" scenerios you can play in your head. What if he flipped off the saftey and what if he chambered a round....its NOT likely by any means but "what if" he did....it could be catastrophic to say the least.
At the same time what if some one kicked in your front door in the middle of the night and your gun wasnt in reach...
So I don't think your wrong at all in your reasoning but at the same time you can't be to safe when it comes to a mobile yougster and fire arms. Perhaps you could place the pistol on a higher piece of furniture in your room where its completely out of reach to the child but you could go right to it in case of emergency.

firemanstrickland
July 20, 2011, 12:05 AM
With all due respect i was almost sure of that already. Just my complete thought. To be honest there is no real way your son can get hurt with your weapon. To all those who say " get a vault" or " put it in a drawer". Hey try to remember where your firearm is at 3am and you grab for the bedside table top and for 15 years its been sittin rite there!! :eek: Where is it? :eek: BANG your dead......yeah, then it doesnt matter how safe you were. ( an early mornin home invasion is a bad time for transition trainning)

Elm Creek Smith
July 20, 2011, 12:06 AM
Gun vault. Do not offend the tent mother.

ECS

mgregg85
July 20, 2011, 12:07 AM
Those pistol vaults that are quick and easy to open are only about $100 max, that is very cheap insurance and peace of mind.

I have also recently seen a little pistol mat that had a built in, pressure sensitive alarm. That would be a good choice only if you were dead set against the idea of the pistol vault.

Frank Ettin
July 20, 2011, 12:13 AM
I'm with the wife as well. Kids are very ingenious, and there's no telling what they can figure out a way to do. A lock box with some sort of a touch key combination (there are several types, available all over and costing $100 to $200 or so) will let you get to the gun quickly if you need it, but keep the kid out.

We have several around the house, each with a loaded gun, extra ammunition and a Surefire flashlight. The guns are readily accessible to my wife and me, but not to strangers.

kludge
July 20, 2011, 12:17 AM
Last week, right here, a dad left his pistol, empty chamber, lying where his 6 year old found it, racked the slide and shot and killed his two year old sibling.

I wonder if that father still thinks it's OK.

SARDiver
July 20, 2011, 12:18 AM
My first post here. Forgive me for not introducing myself in another thread, but I'm compelled to weigh in.

I'm a father of three. My oldest will turn 6 soon, and my three year old is curious about everything. (Third child is an infant.) I am surprised regularly by how much they can do that I thought they couldn't, such as defeating "childproof" door knobs, bottle tops...you name it.

You do NOT want the first time you realize that your kid can actually rack the slide, or deactivate the safety, to be at the scene of an accident. You won't know for certain when your child has the ability to operate that weapon.

I can tell you that no matter how many times you tell a child not to do something, they will do it. My kids won't touch a weapon without permission either (and know that I will show any of the guns to them whenever asked). Kids are kids. The responsibility should not be on them and their decision making power, no matter how advanced it may be for their age. There will be times where giving them the opportunity to make mistakes is fine and dandy. A loaded weapon should not, IMO, be one of those opportunities. It is simply too easy to find a rapid access safe, that takes maybe five seconds to get into on a bad night, that will prevent a dreadful accident. You also have the kids friends to worry about.

Get a quick safe. Practice opening it and retrieving your pistol. If you're that worried about the five extra seconds, get a dog to warn you, or an alarm system. Don't take the chance with a loaded weapon in the open, or in a drawer (which takes almost as long to open as a good quick access safe). I think the Gun Vault quality sucks. I've ordered them in the past and couldn't even open them with the KEY! (The old ADG safes, made in Texas, were great. Since moving to Iowa, they've gone downhill.)


My advice, one father to another.

shiftyer1
July 20, 2011, 12:22 AM
I keep mine in the bedstand drawer, it's probably not much of a difference but it makes me feel better. If you have that option give it a try, your wife will probably feel she won the compromise and you still have easy access

kingpin008
July 20, 2011, 12:24 AM
While I think that the odds of him being able to or finding a way to render the gun dangerous, I'd still invest in a cheap quick access safe or put it in a drawer at the very least.

I've only been married a year, but I've learned that a big part of a happy relationship is picking your battles. In this case, your wife isn't asking you to stop having a gun available - she's just being a concerned mom, wanting a little extra assurance that her little man won't be able to hurt himself with it. Indulge her.

hermannr
July 20, 2011, 12:26 AM
Wow, First, as a guy that has been married to the same woman for almost 44 years now...you need to keep your wife happy, that does not mean you must do what she says, just that you need to find some compromise that will accomlish the purpose.

Starting position....You are not "right" and she is not "right", both of your positions have validity...now you need to find some common ground..

Personally, My HD weapon (SA/DA Colt Officers Model) is in a full cover leather holster on the stand beside the bed, been that way since 1967 when my FIL gave that old Colt to me.

Our daughter's were taught that if they wanted to shoot, they could, with daddy present, other than that, no touch.

They were also started on a .22 very young (6-8) and when they could handle the 22, they were told they could shoot the Colt. No problems...all 5 daughters now have their own families.

I did make the mistake? of allowing them to fire the Colt (SA) before they were really old enough to pull the trigger properly in DA, but then that did have it's advantages...none of them ever wanted to shoot it again. Their mom's High Standard 22s, yes, my Colt, no.

SARDiver
July 20, 2011, 12:28 AM
You have five daughters?


No wonder you're well armed. ;) (I have two myself, God help me.)

SARDiver
July 20, 2011, 12:30 AM
Oh, and I honestly think the drawer idea is a bad one. The possibility of the gun shifting when you open the drawer suddenly is real, as is the likelihood of the kid getting into the drawer anyway. False sense of security.

Get the safe.

ms6852
July 20, 2011, 12:34 AM
All accidental, self inflicted wounds whether they ended in a fatality or not were done with an unloaded weapon. It could have been avoided but it was not. ASK yourself this, do you want to add your name to that list that could have been avoided. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN AND ARE CAUSED BY OUR OWN COMPLACENCY.

mgregg85
July 20, 2011, 12:42 AM
Here is that alarmed pistol pad I was talking about, this wouldn't be as good as a pistol vault but it would be a big improvement over just leaving it on the nightstand. At least you might wake up before an accident can happen.
http://thepistolpad.com/images/Pistol%20Pad%20II.jpg

I guess it uses a little cable through the trigger guard to start the alarm if the pistol is moved off the pad but it does allow the pistol to be freely removed.

BryanDavis
July 20, 2011, 01:29 AM
Have you thought about teaching your 4 and a 1/2 year old to shoot?

Kids can't seem to get enough quality time with their parents (although they would never admit to it).

Shooting with your son would be a good way for you to bond with him.

My father taught me to read by reading me bedtime stories (as corny as it sounds). I was reading Jurassic Park by the 3rd grade. Today I'm quite the proficient reader and writer, with the SAT scores to prove it.

I only wish we'd done more stuff together. He was the coach of my little league baseball team, but it's not really the same.

blindhari
July 20, 2011, 01:51 AM
You are going to have to make decisions on 3 binary solutions;
Set 1 You have the possibility of needing your firearm with no delay
You have time to bring your gun to battery
This is already answered, You keep your gun on an empty chamber
Set 2 You do not wish your child to have access to a working firearm
You partially disable your firearm to achieve this
Partial disabling of a firearm always leaves the possibility of, however unlikely, accidental discharge
Set 3 Your decisions on 1 & 2 essentialy are the same as your wifes
It seems she has endorsed your decisions wholeheartedly
If you think about your decisions so far, it would seem best to find a lock box thet opens at your touch or your wifes, not your sons

blindhari

MachIVshooter
July 20, 2011, 02:12 AM
I didn't even have to read the OP to know the answer.

Dude, if you like your life as it is, she's right. Doesn't matter what the question is.

You can try explaining it to her, but unless she accepts it, butting heads with her over it is going to leave you both miserable. You more than her.

LHRGunslinger
July 20, 2011, 02:16 AM
As Rumpole of the Bailey said "She who must be obeyed"

doc2rn
July 20, 2011, 02:31 AM
As a single dad I have always had a gun. However it was always locked up, and I let her see, touch, and hold it after making it safe. My daughter is 9 and goes shooting with me sometimes. She will not touch a gun unless I tell her it is safe to do so. She knows where they are, she knows she can shoot them, but even with all the training I have done I never leave a gun unattended. That to me is an accident/tragedy waiting to happen.

ObsidianOne
July 20, 2011, 02:34 AM
I had an arguement with my girlfriend about this in the past. She felt that the gun was too close to the bed, I'd have a nightmare, rack the slide, take the safety off, and shoot her. I looked at her like she was nuts and she said she'd feel more comfortable if it was in the gun safe (which is usually left open when I'm home), which is 2 feet farther away. I gave it some thought, made the compromise and let it go instead of fighting an uphill battle.
For the sake of the kid, I'd find some middle ground. Hide the magazine somewhere your child can't get to if you're going to keep it out in the open.
I'd recommend getting a GunVault mini safe or something.

MarkDozier
July 20, 2011, 04:38 AM
Get a bedside safe. For two reasons:
1. Wife wins. Next gun purchase is supported and easier
2. Wife is happy and bedtime gets a lot warmer.

All she wants is to be sure her babies are safe, both (you and the child) of them.

Dude, you can make your decision, but i have seen the agony of parents losing a child due to accident they were responsible for happening, that may have been prevented. Saving four seconds for opening a safe is not worth it.

TCU
July 20, 2011, 05:31 AM
i have a 9 and my wife cant even rack the slide unless she really tries, let alone a 45 and id like to think she was stronger than a kid. They do make biometric safes but if i was in your position i would continue keeping it on the night stand. If i ever have any kids i will also keep my gun out without a round chambered. Hell just toss a blank in there for the first round. That was in the instance that he somehow racked the slide back and pulled the trigger, the noise alone would startle him and he would probably drop the weapon, no harm done. If you need it in the case of HD at 3am, just rack it twice. Just my opinion.

ObsidianOne
July 20, 2011, 05:46 AM
i have a 9 and my wife cant even rack the slide unless she really tries, let alone a 45 and id like to think she was stronger than a kid. They do make biometric safes but if i was in your position i would continue keeping it on the night stand. If i ever have any kids i will also keep my gun out without a round chambered. Hell just toss a blank in there for the first round. That was in the instance that he somehow racked the slide back and pulled the trigger, the noise alone would startle him and he would probably drop the weapon, no harm done. If you need it in the case of HD at 3am, just rack it twice. Just my opinion.
Not really a good idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum

TCU
July 20, 2011, 06:05 AM
thanks for that one, i thought about it after i posted it figures i was wrong, thats crazy how that happens though. What if there were a powderless shell with a primer, im sure that would be a much safer idea.

RevDerb
July 20, 2011, 07:01 AM
What is the intent of having your .45 openly visible on the nightstand? If it is unchambered and the safety is on, you have no tactical advantage over a handgun that is secreted in a drawer (or even preferentially in a biometric safe). If you are both heavy sleepers, the BG has the drop on you with your own firearm. Your family is too valuable to gamble on even a one in a million chance that that firearm will become a danger to you and your loved ones.

Besides, YOUR WIFE IS ALWAYS RIGHT. :neener:

wheelgunslinger
July 20, 2011, 07:03 AM
I think you're still looking past the obvious solution here.
Lock it up by the bed in a safe.
You have a kid that is, every day, getting bigger, stronger, and smarter. Finding a solution now and getting used to it lets you reach that point when the kid CAN easily rack that slide with a solution already implemented. Won't be long and you'll need a bedside safe solution for the time between toddler and teen.
It's not that the wife is right. It's that you're just looking at it in a static way.
The kid's growth and aptitude will sneak up on you. Get ahead of the curve and stay there.

Sam1911
July 20, 2011, 07:15 AM
Not even much of a question. Lock it. Your home defense should be layered MUCH better than to require of you instant reaction and a shooting response.

In other words, if your plan for defending your home is to snap to alert wakefulness, chamber a round and start firing, you've lost every battle you could conceivably have.

Think more clearly about how your home is hardened (or should be) and what your early warning indicators are (or should be) and you'll realize that in any survivable scenario (that is AT ALL realistic) you're going to have time to open a lock-box, remove a cable lock, or otherwise un-secure and make-ready your defensive weapon.

Remember, the chances that your home will be targeted for ANY kind of intrusion -- certainly one that is both so stealthy as to defeat your warning systems AND so deliberately violent that a physical attack on you is the goal -- are extremely low.

The chances of your growing, developing, exploring young child figuring out how to do something extremely bad with your unsecured firearm, given the opportunity to try night after night -- are MUCH higher.

Don't risk being responsible for the loss of that which you'd give your own life to save.

Barr
July 20, 2011, 07:24 AM
It only takes one incident and it does not matter who was right. FWIW, lock it up. Whether the kid can operate the gun or not, it has now become mobile for them.

Loosedhorse
July 20, 2011, 07:34 AM
Who's right - me or the wife? The wife. Now what was the question again?Ding-ding-ding!

Although I probably disagree with her.

But let's see: the impetus for her objection is the LEO's child's death. Well, what were the details? 4 1/2 year old snuck into the parents' bedroom while they slept, picked up an FN 45 USG that was unchambered and on safe, and then shot himself? If so, you're going to lose this one.

I suspect the circumstances were quite a bit different. It would be important to know--we learn from these tragedies, but only if we get more details than the simplistic "kid+gun=dead kid."My questions is this - am I wrong to think it's safe to keep the FNP by the bed, not chambered, with the safety on?In a way, yes, you are wrong. It doesn't matter (to me) that the chamber is empty--in part because all guns are always loaded--or that a safety is engaged--because one never depends on a mechanical safety.

So, more questions: Are both you and your wife such sound sleepers that your kid can enter the room, start monkeying with the gun with you right there, and you won't know? If so, strike one.

Is your kid trained? I don't mean adult-level, but does he know he can look at the gun any time he wants, as long as he asks you and you supervise? Does he know that otherwise he may not touch the gun, because guns are as dangerous as hot stoves and sharp knives? If not, strikes two and three.

Me? I've been keeping various guns on the nightstand (only while I'm in bed) for years, in a holster (to lessen the chance of unintended discharge if I grab it half-awake). Those guns have included (and still do) a condition 1 1911. My youngest is now 7, still makes occasional night trips to our room. He is well trained, which is good, because he's been able to rack slides and pull heavy DA triggers for at least two years, probably longer.

moonman16
July 20, 2011, 07:40 AM
Number ONE as you will learn or suffer the consequences "Wives are ALWAYS Right" and Number TWO, get are pistol vault. This will help give piece of mind to all.

45Fan
July 20, 2011, 07:54 AM
Unfortunately, the wife is always right (even if you dont agree with her). As far as leaving a pistol out where a toddler can get to it is not a good idea. Even if it is not conceivably possible for a child to manipulate the pistol, where there is a will, there is a way.

My son is 12, and I do keep a holstered, cocked and locked 1911 beside my bed 99% of the time. It goes into the safe when I wake up every morning. But, my son at his age doesnt come into the bedroom, at least not without one of his parents asking him to.

Larry Ashcraft
July 20, 2011, 08:02 AM
Can a toddler rack and fire a 1911? Sure, it's happened before. Maybe not with his hands, but think "edge of table". Kids are resourceful.

Let me tell you what happened to us last October. We were on a camping outing with the nine grandkids. We had just arrived and were unpacking the truck. I set off the horn in the truck accidently, so I threw the keys on the console momentarily.

We came out of the cabin to grab some more stuff only to find the truck rolling backwards down a hill. My grandson had gotten into the truck, inserted the key into the ignition, turned it on, stepped on the brake and pulled it out of gear.

Thank God nobody was hurt, but there was $26,000 damage to the truck and the cabin that stopped him (also thank God we have good insurance).

He was two and a half at the time.

Lock the gun up.

Also, I agree with Sam. Jeff White has said it before; "If you find yourself in a gunfight in your home, you've already failed in your mission to keep yourself and your family safe".

gdesloge
July 20, 2011, 08:03 AM
You might ask yourself, "How does that sound in court in front of a judge and jury?"

gd

Deltaboy
July 20, 2011, 08:20 AM
Get a Gun Vault and keep the wife happy.

BluegrassDan
July 20, 2011, 08:21 AM
Gotta treat every gun as if it is loaded, chambered, cocked, and ready to destroy a life at all times.

Toforo
July 20, 2011, 08:27 AM
1 - wife is always right
2 - never underestimate what a child can do
3 - never underestimate a wife you thought was wrong

fallout mike
July 20, 2011, 08:29 AM
Sam, the odds of being broken into may be higher than u think. The number has risen to around 1 every 10 seconds. I'm in their houses every day after the incident. And most people would be surprised at the number of times some people have been broken into. I was on a guys house last week that got hit 3 times that week.

wow6599
July 20, 2011, 08:37 AM
I grew-up in the 80's and early 90's in a small town where every man I knew had a gunrack in their truck, guns above the bed, in drawers, etc. I knew my butt would be hamburger if I touched them, so I never did. I have given my son the same kind of talk about not touching unless I let him.

I guess I have a mind-set that doesn't fly with the PC world we live in today, so I guess I will take the advise of the posters to my thread and get a biometric safe to set on my nightsatnd.

Funny how we ever made it this long - as a kid guns were everywhere, no car seats, no seatbelts, rode in the back of trucks 30 miles to play baseball games, etc.

I think I like the old days better............

fallout mike
July 20, 2011, 08:45 AM
Wow6599, I'm sure the number of accidents were about the same back then. The reason it may seem worse today is the media loves to run with gun accident stories and the media is everywhere today.

Sam1911
July 20, 2011, 08:45 AM
Sam, the odds of being broken into may be higher than u think.
Accepted, that there are some locations which do experience high rates of break-in.

However, the majority of my post still stands.

I was on a guys house last week that got hit 3 times that week. Sure. But that guy wasn't shot to death three times last week. Probably wasn't even injured. Probably didn't shoot his gun. PROBABLY doesn't even own a gun.

The reasonable response is not to say that we would plan/expect to snap awake and lay down fire in a second or two. The reasonable response is to establish the hardest home perimeter we can, provide early warning systems (alarm, dog, motion lights, etc.) and have a firearm secured and ready for quick access.

The likelihood that someone's life hangs in the balance of whether or not they could leap from their slumber, chamber a round, and fire inside of a second or two (rather than taking 10 extra seconds to unlock a handgun safe or other lock mechanism) is waaaay overshadowed by the likelihood that his child might eventually find a way to cause harm with his unsecured (semi-) loaded firearm.

youngda9
July 20, 2011, 08:49 AM
Dude, get a small safe for next to the bed.

Happy wife, happy life.

fallout mike
July 20, 2011, 08:50 AM
Sam, don't get me wrong. I agree with everything you said except the unlikelyhood of a breakin. I have 2 young children and my bedside gun is in a night stand safe.

Sam1911
July 20, 2011, 08:50 AM
Funny how we ever made it this long - as a kid guns were everywhere, no car seats, no seatbelts, rode in the back of trucks 30 miles to play baseball games, etc.

I think I like the old days better............

Funny how many of us made it. Tragic how many didn't. Accidents with a truck bed full of kids are the kind of thing that nostalgia so conveniently forgets. Ask an EMT how misty-eyed wonderful it is to pick the body of a toddler out of a wreck where there was no safety seat. Those I know generally find that to be the one sort of death they can't laugh off with the usual gallows humor.

Yup, the good ol' days were great. A kindergarten classmate of mine was killed by his brother, just goofin' around with a shotgun their Dad had left unsecured one day. Yeah, they knew better. I don't think that made anyone feel any better about it. Maybe because he'd given them both "the talk" their Dad was able to wash his hands of the matter and sleep peacefully. Somehow, though...I doubt it.

It's fine to be nostalgic, but we should be wise enough to comprehend that we can learn from the poor choices of those who came before us. For all the good things that came before, there are plenty of really lousy ideas we're better off to be rid of.

Specs
July 20, 2011, 08:57 AM
By keeping the gun "unloaded" on your nightstand you are adding response time/action to a home defense situation. If you CHAMBERED a round and left theSAFETY off, but kept the pistol in one of those 1 touch biometric things you would not be adding any more response time/action to the problem.

In fact, I believe that having to rack the slide (maybe mis-racking) and then flicking the safety off all while under severe stress and sweaty hands would be slower and more dangerous. With a "one touch" type of safe you have the gun in hand ready to work with no fumbling. The bonus is that your wife will not know the stage of readiness unless you want her to. I would suggest that you get her a revolver and her own lock box, and keep your pistol as primary in your own gun safe.

klutchless
July 20, 2011, 09:00 AM
My dad kept a unloaded Single shot H&R beside his bed and put one shell in the pocket of his pajama's. He raised seven of us and we never shot each other.We were never allowed in the bedroom either.

danez71
July 20, 2011, 09:20 AM
Speaking as a father.....

Get a safe... the wife is right.

Ecohing a few of the others.....

Your kid will have the ability to rack the slide long before you know it.

Ed4032
July 20, 2011, 09:26 AM
You can be "right" if you want to .... or you can be happy. It's up to you.

Ultravox
July 20, 2011, 09:45 AM
It doesn't matter (to me) that the chamber is empty--in part because all guns are always loaded--or that a safety is engaged--because one never depends on a mechanical safety.

I'm a little surprised that it took 39 posts before someone pointed this out.

Rule one is "Treat every gun as though it were loaded."

Kids are resourceful. Get a safe for beside the bed.

chhodge69
July 20, 2011, 10:31 AM
Secure it just on general principle - there are soooo many 'what-if's' to this scenario that could end very badly. In my state it's a crime to leave a loaded gun in reach of a child. but.. there shouldn't have to BE a law, it's just not a good idea.

Your choice to leave it in the open depends on you doing things right each and every day in a stable situation. It only has to go wrong once.

JellyJar
July 20, 2011, 10:41 AM
Consider getting a S&W revolver equipped with a Magna-Trigger:

http://www.tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html

Only practical smart gun technology ever invented.

ErikO
July 20, 2011, 10:49 AM
Yesterday a LEO here in St Louis was the first responder to his son's self-inflicted wound to the stomach. The kid was the same age as yours and did not make it. Get the safe.

FAS1
July 20, 2011, 10:58 AM
Too many options are available out there for you to have your gun accessible and secure. If you want something that is made of stronger steel than most (7 ga.) and does not rely on any electronics, the FAS1 Safe might be a good option for you. Since your gun is secured in a holster the trigger remains covered and you draw your gun just like you would from any holster. If you decide to buy a handgun safe you should consider bolting it down to something solid if you want to keep your HD gun in it all the time.

http://fas1safe.com/images/1242157303935102392626.jpeg

rellascout
July 20, 2011, 11:01 AM
Oh, right, keeping a loaded (chambered or not) firearm in open sight with a toddler in the house. The wife is still right. Some may disagree, but I think it's best to keep firearms at least out of sight and inaccessible to them until the kids are old enough to understand them more rationally.

+1

Why risk it. Kids are naturally curious even if he cannot put the gun into a dangerous condition why tempt him.

hso
July 20, 2011, 11:03 AM
What sort of security to you have for your house besides your handgun and standard doors/locks? What sort of other measures have you taken to protect your family from having someone uninvited come into the house in the middle of the night while you're asleep?

Do you live in a high crime neighborhood?



These questions and others are important in determining if the risks are proportional between potential for having someone break in while you're asleep and the risk that somehow your child will be able to chamber a round and shoot himself or your wife and how you'll deal with the consequences.

Flynt
July 20, 2011, 11:22 AM
We live in Texas, a traditionally gun-friendly state, with a conservative GOP governor and legislature. Nevertheless, we have a state law that makes it a crime for adults to leave firearms accessible to children. Don't recall the details, but I'm pretty sure what the OP was suggesting would be against the law in the Lone Star State. I have read about people doing hard time when a kid is hurt.

My point is not that we should focus the discussion just on whether a law is broken or not, but that there's a pretty strong consensus among pro-gun people that it's irresponsible to permit children access to guns. Kind of a common sense thing.

mbogo
July 20, 2011, 11:30 AM
You are correct. There is no way that your son could endanger himself or others IF THE GUN IS UNLOADED (no round in chamber). Of course, if you left a round in the chamber...

Your home, your call.

mbogo

Ben86
July 20, 2011, 11:31 AM
There are so many small safes out there that can be opened in rapid fashion I don't see why anyone would leave their bedside gun not locked up. I know it is highly unlikely that your kid would be able to rack the slide, but why risk it? It's your kid you are talking about.

You ought to give one of these a try: http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safes/microvault.html

kludge
July 20, 2011, 11:58 AM
Here is that alarmed pistol pad I was talking about, this wouldn't be as good as a pistol vault but it would be a big improvement over just leaving it on the nightstand. At least you might wake up before an accident can happen.
http://thepistolpad.com/images/Pistol%20Pad%20II.jpg

I guess it uses a little cable through the trigger guard to start the alarm if the pistol is moved off the pad but it does allow the pistol to be freely removed.

:eek:

What happens when you switch off the safety and slide the pistol to the left?

I hate all forms of trigger locks. :cuss:

Mike1234567
July 20, 2011, 12:01 PM
As others mentioned... get a small pistol safe. I would choose one with an instant fingerprint release rather than having to fumble with a key.

Lone_Sheep_Dog
July 20, 2011, 12:06 PM
Get a gun vault safe. You should have made that decision before your wife did.

Cosmoline
July 20, 2011, 12:13 PM
Never underestimate the power of young curiosity. It's more than strong enough to rack a slide and flick a safety.

Get a gunvault mini.

The Lone Haranguer
July 20, 2011, 12:47 PM
This assumption is a big time violation of Rule One.
My 45 is NOT chambered, has the safety on and takes a lot of strength to rack the slide (chamber a round).
You're falling into the trap of believing "Oh, it's not loaded." What if some day you forget to make it "safe?" :uhoh: I strongly recommend you put it in a lock box.

usmarine0352_2005
July 20, 2011, 12:52 PM
.



Get one of those under the beds safes.



This just happened today:


http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-three-year-old-police-officers-son-shoots-accidentally-himself-20110719,0,2561056.story



Three Year Old Son of Police Officer Accidentally Shoots Himself


By Charles Jaco FOX2now.com

10:59 p.m. CDT, July 19, 2011
MARYLAND HEIGHTS, MO (KTVI-FOX2now.com)—

The three year old son of a Maryland Heights police officer was killed Tuesday afternoon while playing with his father's personal handgun. Three year old Daniel Metz shot himself in the chest and was pronounced dead at DePaul Medical Center in Bridgeton. His father, Patrolman Ryan Metz, was on duty at the time, on patrol in his own neighborhood, and was the first to respond to the scene of his son's death.



.

george29
July 20, 2011, 12:55 PM
Be surprised how kids manage to do what we think is impossible. When I was still living at home when my kids were little and my HD pistol was an FN MKIII, I would keep the magazine seperate from the weapon, weapon with an empty chamber. I can't think of one scenario where a loaded weapon next to a bed is any advantage to an unloaded one. If someone can enter your home that easy, and you are that heavy a sleeper, and you own no dogs, alarm system or burglar bars, what good will a loaded weapon vs an unloaded one be? The disadvantage is that the 4 year old shoots someone by doing what you thought was impossible. Hope I never read about you but every so often "Toddler shoots ______" is a story somewhere. Better safe than sorry.

Wrote this B4 I saw the above post.

4v50 Gary
July 20, 2011, 12:58 PM
Right is not the issue. Sure the kid can't operate it now. The real issue is keeping the wife happy. Lock it up.

Axel Larson
July 20, 2011, 01:01 PM
If I had a kid I would keep all my guns locked up, but if you do not want a safe or do not have the money for one currently. I would suggest you get a padlock and put it in a drawer and padlock it, so your kid can not get in. Padlocks are easy enough to brake in a emergency and your child will not be able to get into until he is ten or so.
My brother learned to pick the lock on our old house when he was around ten, still knows how in case he locks his keys in his truck (it has happened).
I personally do not keep my carry gun locked up but I do keep it out of sight and there are no children in our house, also it is always near me.I also second getting something the wife can use.

Smokey in PHX
July 20, 2011, 01:08 PM
Too many kids have accidents who are taught over and over not to touch a gun. Get a quick open gun vault.

george29
July 20, 2011, 01:20 PM
Seems like everyone here agrees with your wife....AWKWARD!!! :D

BP Hunter
July 20, 2011, 01:22 PM
You have asked our opinion. 99% of us, who are gun owners, mostly married and with kids, have agreed. You know the answer. You know what to do.

roadchoad
July 20, 2011, 01:31 PM
My 3.5 year old can push my 150# wife across the hardwood floor on a ktchen chair. Kids are stronger than you think. Don't bet your lives on the assumption that he can't rack the slide. One day, he will grow to be strong enough, whether you know it or not, and you might find out too late.

GEM
July 20, 2011, 01:31 PM
I have seen videos and read that kids of that age can rack the gun using the edge of something as Larry said.

They were shown how the gun works and given obviously unloaded guns to rack and they did it. Sometimes the little ones formed teams with one holding and other doing full body strenght pulls. But one kid could with a table edge and leaning on it.

Needs to be locked or on you.

Also, it was found that the best instructions and stern talks don't always take.

ExtremeShot
July 20, 2011, 01:32 PM
I'd be worried about *other* people....other kids that are over, babysitters, relatives, etc, etc.

Kids are naturally inquisitive...at some point they will pick up the gun and look at it, especially if it's easy to get to.

Specs
July 20, 2011, 01:41 PM
The other thing is that no matter how well trained your kids are, it's a shaky proposition to trust them when dealing with "forbidden fruit" like a gun.

Reminds me of the guy who was just bitten by the dog that "never bites". For a few bucks all of the risk can be removed with no downside.

autospike
July 20, 2011, 01:43 PM
Yeah... I think you're wrong.

I don't doubt that your wife and son can't rack it. But there are so many things that can go wrong. You take it shooting and forget to remove round from chamber. You dryfire it one night, load it up, and forget to put it back into your "safe" state. You get "comfortable" with the situation, don't ever change, and before you know it your son (or a friend) are able to rack it.

V-Line makes a lock box that will handle one or two firearms. It uses a purely mechanical simplex style lock (no more electronic stuff for me) that is simple to operate. You can keep your gun fully loaded and have it ready in an instant.

You can order those off the web - including from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/V-Line-Compact-Keyless-Storage-Security/dp/B001H3QGJS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1311183700&sr=8-2).

For the record, I have no relation to V-Line, I 've just found that their boxes work well. I can't say the same for the 2 GunVaults and 1 Stack-On I had fail.

Larry Ashcraft
July 20, 2011, 01:44 PM
The story I read was on 1911Forum several years ago, so I have no idea where it is now.

But IIRC, a couple of toddlers (3-4 years old) took a 1911 into a closet to play with it, and ended up racking a round in and firing one into the floor. Luckily, neither was hurt, but I imagine the parents almost had heart attacks.

Owen Sparks
July 20, 2011, 01:47 PM
A buddy keeps a pump shotgun on top of the wardrobe in his bedroom. The top of this piece of furniture is about seven and a half high and there are no chairs in the room that his two small children could use to climb up on to reach it, even if they knew that it was there, they don't.

redstategunnut
July 20, 2011, 01:58 PM
You must not have been married too long. Us veterans know the answer is the wife is always right.
We have a winner.

dirtykid
July 20, 2011, 02:17 PM
Ditto, to dammitboy's answer, after enough years you'll learn she IS right,(at least if you wanna keep peace in the homestead) 4-1/2 is still too young to be trusted to be "gun smart" get a bedside gun-safe or at minumum HIDE it somewhere only you can access quickly, but most importantly get a gun that your wife can operate effectivelly,should someone get the jump on you it's good to know some-one else can help defend your home,, my youngest is 13 so i dont have such worries, he can drop-plates almost as good as myself with my SP101 .357 (although the big-mean SD-loads scare him)
All my children have been trained to know WHERE every firearm is in the house and HOW to operate it safely,,

DAP90
July 20, 2011, 02:37 PM
Most everyone in this thread has already told you to get a safe but because it’s such an important issue I’ll add my own voice – get a safe!

Maybe he can’t rack the slide right now (I wouldn’t bet on that) but how long before he is able to and how will you know when he is?

Score yourself a few points though – let your wife know that she was right and thank her for bringing it up. Then, while she’s still happy with you mention the next gun on your list. Offer to take your son to the gun store with you to do some “research” while she gets an afternoon off.

chrt396
July 20, 2011, 02:41 PM
I concur!! Nothing is an issue..until the little tyke has a mishap..and then EVERYONE's life is altered!!!

roadchoad
July 20, 2011, 02:45 PM
buddy keeps a pump shotgun on top of the wardrobe in his bedroom. The top of this piece of furniture is about seven and a half high and there are no chairs in the room that his two small children could use to climb up on to reach it, even if they knew that it was there, they don't.


Kids are plenty resourceful. I could easily see the kids opening up the two lower drawers and using them to climb up a little higher.

When my son was 2+, would put his bathroom stool on the counter, drag a chair from the dining room, climb onto the chair , then stand on the stool to get at the cookies on the top shelf of our kitchen cabinets.


Think like a kid, you used to be one. Didn't you always find a way to get the things you wanted?:rolleyes:

CCI
July 20, 2011, 02:46 PM
Who's right - me or the wife?


Your wife is right!
Little ones can surprise the <removed> out of you. If it doesn't work this way, they will try that way. Little minds can be very creative!
"Until your an "empty nest", all guns need to be locked up"!

SnowBlaZeR2
July 20, 2011, 03:01 PM
I've solved this one already. No kids in my house. ;)

I don't have any fatherly advice, but I can tell you that when my nephews and nieces are down to visit, my firearms are all unloaded and double locked. I have other things that I can use as weapons if need be, and if you ask me the odds of a break-in are far less than the odds of an accident. If I had kids, obviously always locked up isn't the way to go, so I'd say grab a safe or lock box.

Onward Allusion
July 20, 2011, 03:21 PM
wow6599 (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=66489)
Who's right - me or the wife?

Toss the pistol into a quick open gun-vault. The kind that has the hand print on it. Keep it in there with one in the chamber and safety off. You'd probably spend as much time racking the slide and taking the safety off as you would opening the vault.

Loosedhorse
July 20, 2011, 03:23 PM
Are we occasionally wandering from the central question here?

Everyone agrees (I think) that you shouldn't leave unsecured guns around on your nightstand if you're not in your bedroom--or not even in your home.

What does stand discussing is how to balance access versus security from kids (or other unauthorized users) for a night-time home defense firearm.

Obviously we're hearing a lot of advice to lock it away, even with you sleeping a foot away. I am a bit surprised that we're not hearing more comments toward ease of access; that being expected to fumble open a case when half-awake will cost time, and etc., etc. As has been pointed out, we'd be up in arms if a law mandated that; and to the extent that such a law resembled DC's, it would be unconstitutional.

Yet many (most?) of us seem to believe such hindered access to an emergency rescue tool is clearly necessary. Would, for example, putting the gun out of reach on a high shelf just while you're sleeping be okay (and locked away or carried on you otherwise), or is a lock-box or Magna-trigger the minimal "acceptable" security?

Mike1234567
July 20, 2011, 03:29 PM
Toss the pistol into a quick open gun-vault. The kind that has the hand print on it. Keep it in there with one in the chamber and safety off. You'd probably spend as much time racking the slide and taking the safety off as you would opening the vault.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

LensWork
July 20, 2011, 03:33 PM
You must not have been married too long. Us veterans know the answer is the wife is always right.

+1 :banghead:

HoosierQ
July 20, 2011, 03:39 PM
I vote "Your Wife" on this one. Here's why. If something bad happens with that gun, even if the thing does not go off, you butt goes right into the "irresponsible gun owner sling" because you left a loaded gun out in the open where a child could get hold of it.

Any by bad I could mean as little as the child lays hands on it, drags it out and plays with it and the neighbor sees it, calls the cops. Try telling the cops (and the media) that the gun WAS NOT LOADED just because a round was not chambered. The cops will get it but they won't care and a boat load of people out there will see or hear that there were rounds in the mag so to them the gun will in fact be loaded...and in fact it really is loaded isn't it?

So your wife is 100% right on this one friend. Plus, your are counting on racking that slide in the dark in a panic with somebody battering down your door? I don't think so. Can you say "click"?

Dude, chamber a round, get a proper storage system for that gun, lock it up in there, practice deploying the gun (time your gonna spend racking the slide and making sure the mag was seated etc etc anyway) and be safe.

WIFE.

Mike1234567
July 20, 2011, 03:57 PM
What most WIVE'S would write/say...

I vote "Your Wife" on this one. Here's why. If something bad happens with that gun, even if the thing does not go off, you butt goes right into the "irresponsible gun owner sling" because you left a loaded gun out in the open where a child could get hold of it.

Any by bad I could mean as little as the child lays hands on it, drags it out and plays with it and the neighbor sees it, calls the cops. Try telling the cops (and the media) that the gun WAS NOT LOADED just because a round was not chambered. The cops will get it but they won't care and a boat load of people out there will see or hear that there were rounds in the mag so to them the gun will in fact be loaded...and in fact it really is loaded isn't it?

So your wife is 100% right on this one friend. Plus, your are counting on racking that slide in the dark in a panic with somebody battering down your door? I don't think so. Can you say "click"?

Dude, chamber a round, get a proper storage system for that gun, lock it up in there, practice deploying the gun (time your gonna spend racking the slide and making sure the mag was seated etc etc anyway) and be safe.

WIFE.

What most HUSBANDS read/hear...

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... butt... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Get hold of it.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... drags it out and plays with it... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... racking that slide in the dark... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... lock it up in there... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

DM~
July 20, 2011, 05:23 PM
Personally, if the handgun does NOT have a round in the chamber, i'd put it between the mattress and box spring, on my side of the bed and sleep on it. In the morning, i'd put it away...ALL when my child couldn't see what i was doing...

OR, you could just tell your wife you are going to agree with her, so you both can be wrong... lol

DM

Ryanxia
July 20, 2011, 05:30 PM
If you lock it up during the day I don't see an issue, you're right next to it at night.

I understand wanting to please the wife but that extra step of trying to find your keys and unlock the gun, etc may do a lot more damage than your wife knows.

mdauben
July 20, 2011, 06:04 PM
For my own piece of mind and my wife's, I would probably get one of the quick-opening lock boxes. Its probably no slower to deploy a cocked'n'locked pistol from there, than it is to jack a round into a gun with an empty chamber that was sitting on your night stand. :cool:

Frank Ettin
July 20, 2011, 06:15 PM
...I am a bit surprised that we're not hearing more comments toward ease of access; that being expected to fumble open a case when half-awake will cost time, and etc., etc....That's why one practices. And if one isn't awake enough to open the box, he's probably not awake enough to make effective use of a gun.

thunder173
July 20, 2011, 06:16 PM
Pistol vault. No question. I cae home once when my son was still in diapers. He had found my revolver,...apparently managed to somehow open the cylinder,.and dumped all the rounds onto the floor where I found them,..with the gun on the floor next to them. Gun got locked away that instant.

Repeat...Gun Vault....don't risk it,..and yes,...wife is always right,,...it took me a couple of them to figure that one out,.....

Cop Bob
July 20, 2011, 06:24 PM
It is amazing how resourceful kids can be... My father was a competitive pistol shooter (yeah I can blame it all on him) He kept his pistols locked in his range box in a closet, before I was 7, I could pick that lock in less than a minute.. there was something about, the look, the smell.. the contents.. i was drawn to it like a magnet... I am just fortunate that I didn't shoot myself or something else..

I too have seen first hand the tragedy of kids getting ahold of unsecured firearms... I rode a crime scene unit for several years... Not pretty..

I had a former partner, a few weeks after he retired, his grandson got a hold of of his M-66, with tragic results...

There are many quick access options, that still secure the weap from tiny prying hands...

Take care of it...

As far as Wives go.. Just say Yes Dear, and move on..... You will be less hen-pecked in the long run.. Good Luck....

cambeul41
July 20, 2011, 06:28 PM
1) "Ifn mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

2) When my youngest daughter was five, she could rack a slide. If she saw me doing anything with a gun, she would hold out her hand for it, then check to see whether it was loaded:

"What's the matter, don't you trust me?"

"Yes, daddy, I trust you, but I didn't check it."

9mmforMe
July 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
Wives are not always right, though I get the theme here, but she is in this situation...get a gun vault and protect your family in all aspects.

AKElroy
July 20, 2011, 07:32 PM
+1 again for the bedside safe for a toddler that young & mobile. My kids are older (10 &13), and we shoot together several times per month. I trust them more now than any of the strangers I sit next to at the range, they know the rules and practice them flawlessly.

We have a defensive plan for our home, and I keep an unsecured loaded 12 gage next to the bed every night. I have faith in my kids to not sneek into my room in the middle of the night to play with a gun they can shoot whenever they ask. Even so, It is still in the safe when I am not home, and it is in the safe when we have other kids over, even at night, which is often.

Loosedhorse
July 20, 2011, 07:39 PM
That's why one practices. And if one isn't awake enough to open the box, he's probably not awake enough to make effective use of a gun.I see your point...but the argument seems to spin on itself. If one is too asleep to make use of the gun (a well practiced skill), then one is too asleep to get the box open, even if that is also a well practiced skill.

On the other hand, if one is awake enough to use a gun effectively, then the box slows you down a few seconds if you're lucky--or more if you're not. Anyone can fumble, even Governor Parris Glendening (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2000-03-28/news/0003280129_1_smart-guns-glendening-gun-safety). Perhaps the "correct" training technique would be to set the alarm for 3AM a few nights in a row and then quickly access the (unloaded?) gun. Preferrably when the spouse is out of town, visiting family. :D

I'm not saying that lockboxes might not be a great idea for some, or that practice with that device wouldn't be important if you choose to use it (it would obviously be important). But one of the big objections to (for instance) the S&W intermal lock is that it unnecessarily complicates things, and could break and prevent accesss when you really need it. Perhaps we should consider if those problems might also apply to a lockbox.

Also, the point is accepted that if you need your gun in a hurry, you've already had some big failures in your security. But that doesn't change the fact that you might need your gun in a hurry.

Just some ideas. I do not know what will be right for any of you out there.

rwilson37643
July 20, 2011, 08:08 PM
Just to see for myself, after reading your post I gave my 7 year old son ( who is small for his age) my Sti perfect ten. the gun was unloaded and has the hardest slide to pull back of all of my handguns. I asked him to rack the slide. he was unable to at first but I told him to keep trying. after about 5 min. of tugging he figured out how to catch the front of the heinie slant pro rear sight on the coffee table and use his body weight to lock the slide to the rear. if it would lock the slide to the rear with an empty mag it would chamber a round. make the firearm unaccesible to the children. and a little unsolicited advise, keep the handgun on a duty belt or shoulder harnes with a flashlight and any other gear you might need.

danez71
July 20, 2011, 09:37 PM
I'm not piling more on... I gave my say 2 pages ago.

But something a couple of the other posts alluded to I think are worth mentioning. Well... at least to me :o


I think where a lot of people make a some common mistakes are ... and I'm exagerating to make the point...

*) When they think of themsleves as trained or skilled with guns.

Sure, the parent might be. But the child ISNT. The parent may be safe with a gun but the fact that a parent is even thinking these thoughts is a great indication the child isnt safe with a gun.

*) Thinking the child doesnt have the ability.
But like all parents... brag to others at the amazing things that their kid can do. Cant have it both ways. Kids do amazing things! Dont sell your kids short! They'll stack chairs on top of chairs to swing from a towel tied to the ceiling fan to reach something.

*) Thinking that the child has been taught well not to touch a gun.
Thats great..... except... how many times did you have to tell your child not to touch something... the remote... the nick nack on the coffee table... etc etc? Did you forget that you were a kid once and all of the stuff you did that your parents told you not to?

*) Not realizing that kids tests boundries.
Thats part of how they learn. Its natural. Every child WILL test the boundries. See above.... remember all of those things you did? Remember how many times you told your child not to touch 'the buttons'?


Again... not trying to pile it on more. Just some observations of mine over the years.

Oh.... and DONT EVEN THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT YOU CAN HIDE A KEY TO THE SAFE and leave your kids at home.

My daughter did that. She's fine. She didnt play with the guns. But to this day (15+ yrs later) she still cant explained why she did. She just says "I dont know why I did it... I just wanted to get in (to the safe)".

I know why.... she was growing and developing and testing the boundries. Just as every kid does.




I speak from experience.

WinThePennant
July 20, 2011, 11:12 PM
I don't have to read any of this.

THE WIFE IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! If you don't believe me, then ask mine!

refrey
July 20, 2011, 11:41 PM
The wife is right. Don't trust children with their lives.
How many times have you done something your father told you not to do?

SnowBlaZeR2
July 21, 2011, 01:32 AM
That's why one practices. And if one isn't awake enough to open the box, he's probably not awake enough to make effective use of a gun.

Excellent point. I'm not sure why everyone thinks they will have such a huge problem accessing their weapon at night. It doesn't need to be right beside your head, chambered and ready to fire. I don't know about anyone else, but I feel if you have trouble getting your weapon into the fight in the first place, putting it to use will be your last problem. After all, you do want to know where all rounds are heading when they leave your firearm, correct?

This is why people end up shooting their spouse coming back to bed, or the cat. Be safe.

isc
July 21, 2011, 01:35 AM
at 4 1/2 your kid is old enough that he should spend the night in his own bed. lock your door and keep your gun in whatever condition suits you.

Shienhausser
July 21, 2011, 01:36 AM
"Ifn mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

Jeez growing up in an italian household, this is SO TRUE.

I NEED to buy both bedside safe and closet safe soon, before I have a wife to deal with haha.

1858remington
July 21, 2011, 02:32 AM
One thing every man knows is the wife is always right, even when she isn't:D

So, here's a better option. I have a picture frame that contains a secret compartment to hold my loaded gun, extra mags, flashlight and mace. These can be found on the internet for around $40. Being as it is a picture frame, it will be hung higher than a child can reach, thus keeping them from harm.

When I was married:barf: I had the frame mounted over my couch in the living room. Many a guest sat under it not knowing a loaded gun was above their heads:D

Plan2Live
July 21, 2011, 07:26 AM
When my first child was old enough to walk I moved my pistol to the top drawer of my very tall chest of drawers without consulting the wife, now ex. With that said, reading over all the "keep the wife happy" responses, it makes me wonder, when a woman poses a question on a typically female site, does the herd chime in with "keep the husband happy"? I think not. Pity.

hso
July 21, 2011, 07:42 AM
Sam's already pointed out that preventing a nighttime break in to give you time to wake, assess, respond is a very important question that most don't want to address because locks, door frame reinforcement and alarm systems aren't as interesting as discussing our passion.

I'd rather keep a bad guy out off my property than anything else. Barring that, I want to keep him from getting in or slow him down so much and cause so much noise that he doesn't want to wait for the cops. Failing that I want him to give me so much time that I can wake, get my family in a safe place and set up to defend that until the cops arrive. I don't want to have to jump up out of bed at the first indication of a break in, grab a gun that I may be too sleepy/jumpy to chamber and defend myself and family right then/there. If I lived in a dangerous neighborhood I'd be hardening the place like I was distributing drugs or buying gold. If those guys understand the importance of preventing break-ins I expect we're at least as smart and should act accordingly.

Sav .250
July 21, 2011, 07:45 AM
Touchy subject. I`m guessing the "strong" one will win this one.

Hotshot10
July 21, 2011, 07:57 AM
I heard this morning on the radio that another kid in St. Louis county was killed with an unlocked firearm, making the total three kids in under a week. The risk of an intruder breaking in at night or while you are home, I think, is less than that of a kid who is present every day having an accident.

45_auto
July 21, 2011, 08:01 AM
Hard to believe that there would even be anything to discuss about keeping a loaded gun (I know, there's not one in the chamber) where a 4 or 5 year old can get it.

Loosedhorse
July 21, 2011, 08:49 AM
I heard this morning on the radio that another kid in St. Louis county was killed with an unlocked firearm, making the total three kids in under a week.Are you saying that all three were cases of parents putting a loaded gun on their night-table, and the kid came in while they slept and shot themselves? If not, perhaps it is implied that having the gun accessible in that way will cause you to leave it out all day, everyday, even when you're at work?

As I said before, we seem to be mixing things here, and equating having the gun on the night table while you're in the bedroom with "keeping a loaded gun where a 4 or 5 year old can get it." I'm not sure I agree that the cases are equivalent. grab a gun that I may be too sleepy/jumpy to chamberThen keep it chamber-full, and in a holster. Are there really big problems about grabbing a holstered gun? Again, point accepted about alarms, etc., but it isn't either/or: you can have good hardening and an accessible firearm. That's if you choose to, after weighing the benefits and risks for your situation and family.

1911fan
July 21, 2011, 10:55 AM
124 replies so far and only two have pointed out the obvious--this will be the third.

In what just seems like DAYS in adult time, that kid will get to be five, six, seven, eight, nine--and I know that I was strong enough to rack the slide on a .45 when I was nine--and I was a little kid.

You're gonna HAVE to do it sooner or later, do it now, keep momma happy and the kid safe. (Women don't need to kowtow to the men, they have that which men desire most, even more than guns and cars.:what:)

If you're the type who gets up in the night, make it a point to practice opening the safe EVERY time you get up until it becomes a habit.

You can alarm your dwelling cheaply by getting the stick-on alarms at the local BigBox hardware. They're battery powered so they'll work even in a power failure. That, however, is another thread.

In order to ensure domestic tranquility, you probably should do NOW what you're going have to do later, anyway.

My $0.02.

ed

FAS1
July 21, 2011, 12:28 PM
If you're the type who gets up in the night, make it a point to practice opening the safe EVERY time you get up until it becomes a habit.

You can alarm your dwelling cheaply by getting the stick-on alarms at the local BigBox hardware. They're battery powered so they'll work even in a power failure. That, however, is another thread.

In order to ensure domestic tranquility, you probably should do NOW what you're going have to do later, anyway.

My $0.02.

ed

As mentioned it just takes a little practice. I shot this yesterday to email to a potential customer that wanted to see it open. I am not left handed and don't practice opening it with that hand and it took about 2.5 seconds to have my gun in my hand. I am probably faster laying in bed and using my right hand, not to mention I was trying to be still while filming ;)

Anyway, it probably takes longer for you to wake up, get your bearings and determine if there is a threat than actually retrieving your gun if stored in a similar manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJUGuB35y8

Hotshot10
July 21, 2011, 10:13 PM
Are you saying that all three were cases of parents putting a loaded gun on their night-table, and the kid came in while they slept and shot themselves? If not, perhaps it is implied that having the gun accessible in that way will cause you to leave it out all day, everyday, even when you're at work?

As I said before, we seem to be mixing things here, and equating having the gun on the night table while you're in the bedroom with "keeping a loaded gun where a 4 or 5 year old can get it." I'm not sure I agree that the cases are equivalent.

No, I'm saying that, as a general rule, unsecured firearms are a safety hazard with young kids.

dougwx12
July 22, 2011, 12:10 PM
This thread boggles my mind. Kids that age have poor impulse control, regardless of prior discipline. And there's more than one way to rack a slide; add a little mechanical advantage with a table edge...

Lock it up.

Iramo94
July 22, 2011, 12:24 PM
The wife.
/end thread

danprkr
July 23, 2011, 08:59 AM
You can be right, or you can be happy. And let me tell you keeping the one with the internal plumbing happy is the way to be happy yourself. Just saying.

And of course you could buy, as someone else pointed out, one of those small bedside safes that keys on your fingerprint etc. Best of both worlds.

AKElroy
July 23, 2011, 09:35 AM
Someone mentioned earlier this is about evaluating liklyhoods, and I agree. Would I leave a gun out during unattended? Never. Next to a bed I am sleeping in? Of course, I do it every night. For those so foccussed on the potential harm, what about the car keys, knives, outlets, choking hazards, draino, clorox, heights, (my sons window is 25' off the ground).

Safety can be taught, and it must be. Develope a proper plan and take reasonable precautions. As for me, I have a gun next to the bed at night.

GEM
July 23, 2011, 10:52 AM
When our kid was little we took care of all those hazards. Lots of kids poison themselves.

However, no need to stand in the way of Darwinian selection for some.

Sufficient locks and alarms should give you enough time to retrieve a firearm at night.

Vermonter
July 23, 2011, 11:21 AM
http://i54.tinypic.com/2up7eoh.jpg
http://fortknox.epromo.com/product.i?sku=HANDGUNSAFEPISTOLBOX

No batteries or key required. I practice opening it a couple times per day.

Cluster Bomb
July 23, 2011, 11:30 AM
either get a nightstand that has a drawer or get a fingerprint gun case.

My pal just turns his nightstand around so drawer is facing the wall with room to pull it out.

My wife wasnt happy when i had guns laying around, then i got cases for them.


you can get a trigger lock, just as easy as a safe/case

MrsSmith
July 23, 2011, 11:44 AM
When my kids were little I kept my HD gun in the nightstand while sleeping and on me or up high and near at hand during the day. When the boys got older, although I did teach them both a healthy respect for guns, there were 3 to 10 other boys in my house as well at any given time. Easier and safer to just put it up during the day, lock my bedroom door at night. Putting it up meant somewhere teenage boys would never venture - tampon box under master bathroom sink. Daughter found it one time and we had a good laugh over it.

On a side note, ex had bad habit of insisting gun and magazine not be stored together and would hide mag, once in the pocket of some item of clothing hanging in his closet. Imagine the surprise of the GoodWill worker who checked pockets and found that. Do you think that counts as a charitable donation for my taxes?

Loosedhorse
July 23, 2011, 10:03 PM
Would I leave a gun out during unattended? Never. Next to a bed I am sleeping in? Of course, I do it every night.+1.

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