How do you break in your barrel?


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biologicole
July 20, 2011, 08:30 PM
Seems like I hear about a lot of different theories and methods regarding barrel break-in. What are your thoughts about barrel break-in? Is it really necessary? How do you do it?

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Philippe
July 20, 2011, 08:41 PM
Shoot bullets thru it......

alsaqr
July 20, 2011, 08:42 PM
i swab the barrel clean and shoot it.

Steve CT
July 20, 2011, 09:01 PM
For a truly high end firearm that you intend to shoot with incredible accuracy under very controlled circumstances with ultra sophisticated ammunition, there are barrel lapping products and procedures that you can easily research on the Net.

For the other 99.99% of us shooters-Shoot It! A Lot!

RX-178
July 20, 2011, 09:22 PM
Step 1. Shoot it.

Step 2. Clean it after shooting it.

Step 3. Repeat steps 1-2

smallbore
July 20, 2011, 09:22 PM
I just clean 'em & shoot 'em. . .then clean them after shooting.

NoobCannon
July 20, 2011, 09:31 PM
Bullets....lots and lots of bullets.

jcwit
July 20, 2011, 10:08 PM
Do what this barrel mfg. sayes

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

Just shooting bullets thru it isn't the answer.

wrs840
July 20, 2011, 10:38 PM
I don't know if it's necessary, or even "good", but here's what I do with a new bolt-action rifle that I intend to be able to take a precision shot with, not competition, but hunting:

Use a bore guide and clean from the breach. Get a properly sized Tipton composite rod.

Patch with Hoppes #9 twice, waiting a few minutes after each. Follow with bronze brush dipped in Hoppes #9. Ten strokes, five in, five out. Wait a few minutes. Patch until "clean". Patch once or twice with RemOil. Wait a few minutes. Dry patch.

Shoot one round.

Repeat the above four or five times.

Then repeat shooting four-or-five rounds between each cleaning two or three times.

Done.

The idea is to reduce the probability of embedding any specs of machining burrs left hanging on the rifling or anywhere else.

I'm not sure if it actually accomplishes anything useful, but it's what I do, and it makes me feel good. I'm starting to sight in the scope as I do it too, and since I like Burris Signature scope mount rings, I'm also spending some time dinking around with the eccentric inserts for a while before I touch the Scope adjustment screws anyway.

belercous
July 20, 2011, 11:18 PM
The same debate goes on about how to break-in wives, car, boat & aircraft engines too. It really all comes down to use it as you would normally, but don't overheat it until it gets broke-in. Bring it up to max temp, then back off. Repeat as neccessay until the temp stabilizes under normal useage.

All of these things will run hot when new, but they'll soon stabilize.

FIVETWOSEVEN
July 20, 2011, 11:22 PM
*Bang* Repeat as needed till out of ammo or time.

NavyLCDR
July 20, 2011, 11:33 PM
Do what this barrel mfg. sayes

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_...246-wp2558.htm

Just shooting bullets thru it isn't the answer.

I beg to offer a differing opinion:

http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html

Gale McMillan, of McMillan Stocks fame, was one of the finest barrel-makers and benchrest shooters of all time. Here he argues that elaborate barrel break-in procedures do more harm than good.

It all got started when a barrel maker that I know started putting break-in instructions in the box with each barrel he shipped a few years ago. I asked him how he figured it would help and his reply was if they shoot 100 rounds breaking in this barrel that's total life is 3000 rounds and I make 1000 barrels a year just figure how many more barrels I will get to make.

On a .22 barrel, I and many others have discovered that excessive cleaning reduces the accuracy. I clean the chamber often, but the barrel goes 250-300 rounds before cleaning. My 10/22 took 2nd place against 11 center fire rifles in a 100-yard bench rest competition, so it must work.

jimmyraythomason
July 20, 2011, 11:35 PM
Just shooting bullets thru it isn't the answer.It's worked for me for 40 years!

ants
July 21, 2011, 12:15 AM
No, you don't break in the barrel by shooting bullets into the berm or into the air.

You shoot them at targets, just as you normally would shoot.
Do your live ammo function check on the new gun.
Sight in your scope.
Chrono for velocity.
Shoot groups with different ammo.
Begin load development (if you handload).

You do everything as normal. There is no waste of ammo.
You simply clean with copper cleaner between shots,
for the first dozen rounds or so.

No waste whatsoever.



Prediction:
Someone on this thread will still post that it's a waste of ammo.
Perhaps they don't read the whole thread before posting.
Or perhaps they just don't get it, and never will.

ants
July 21, 2011, 12:17 AM
Gale McMillan, of McMillan Stocks fame, was one of the finest barrel-makers and benchrest shooters of all time.
Here he argues that elaborate barrel break-in procedures do more harm than good.
I'm certain he is correct, regarding elaborate break-in procedures.

But simple break in procedures do no harm whatsoever.

ants
July 21, 2011, 12:24 AM
I had a 308 with the roughest, ugliest, crappiest, most ripped up bore ever.
Run a cleaning patch through, and the cleaning patch comes out all fuzzy from the rough bore.
No kidding, it was so rough it made a patch fuzzy.

Break in didn't help it.



I have good production barrels (not match barrels) from good barrel makers.
I always break them in. No harm in it. They now make me happy. I'm sold.



A hand-lapped Lilja, or Krieger, or Broughton match barrel probably gains nothing from break in.
The careful and complete lapping procedure does that for you.

ehanger
July 21, 2011, 12:26 AM
1. Buy ammo

2. Load ammo in gun

3. Shoot until empty

4. If not satisfied, repeat steps 1-3

5. ????????

6. Profit

Shienhausser
July 21, 2011, 01:25 AM
I broke in my 686 with around 1,000 rounds of .357 in 4 weeks. Oh yeah.

mljdeckard
July 21, 2011, 02:06 AM
I don't outright dismiss barrel break-in, but I think that most of the good you are going to do with be with the first ten rounds. That is going to do most of the burnishing of the throat and rifling.

gamestalker
July 21, 2011, 02:36 AM
I use two methods that have to date worked very well for me. I first lap the barrel by hand using a very fine lapping compound and a no non sense lapping tool. I then clean it and make sure the action and barrel are as bone dry as can be accomplished. For this I use acetone to remove any possible residue form the compound and oil, or cleaning solvent. Then I load up some full house loads and shoot the first 10 without letting it cool down at all. I then scrub it clean and again remove every element of oil or solvent from it betweem cleanings. I contniue this process for 50 or so rounds or until I'm convinced it is grouping consistently well.
Another method I don't use any more is using the bullets that already have the lapping compound on them. I didn't care for this method because it is too easy to over lap the barrel with those, and you can't really know if you've gone to far before it's too late.
There are numerous methods many of us use and some that don't even bother with break in. It's your call, just don't over lap the barrel or you may end up with a prematurely worn barrel, especialy if you use the lapping bullets that are available for accomplsihing this task. I've seen a couple of fine barrels ruined because of someone putting too many of these lapping rounds being put through the barrel.

SaxonPig
July 21, 2011, 09:50 AM
From the FAQs:

----------------------------

Barrel break in.

36. “Breaking in” a rifle barrel is probably just a waste of time. Some barrel makers recommend it while others do not which demonstrates a lack of universal agreement on whether it’s really necessary so it probably is not. Every formula for break in involves some combination of firing and cleaning. The fact that there are numerous different formulas should be evidence that nobody really has the definitive answer on the best procedure meaning there likely isn’t one. Simply shooting the rifle as intended will likely be all the break in that is required.

M-Cameron
July 21, 2011, 09:58 AM
ive never seen any reports that any specific "barrel break-in" procedure actually have any effect on accuracy or longevity.......

my rifle shoots better than i could ever ask it to.....and i never did anything other than shoot it......

so unless someone can actually show that the "shoot, clean, shoot, clean, sacrifice goat, shoot 2, clean, perform rain dance, shoot 3, clean"....actually offer any improvement ......ill stick with shooting my rifle and being happy.

Clipper
July 21, 2011, 10:18 AM
My new Stainless .357 blackhawk was shooting 4" groups at 25 yards. My older blued gun shot 1.5" groups at 50. I caller Ruger and asked "What the hell??" and was advised to just 'shoot the barrel in' with a few boxes of hot jacketed ammo to burnish the machine marks out of the new stainless barrel. I did, and the groups tightened right up. My wife's stainless Security Six shot super right out of the box, go figure. Anyway, I shoot 'em like I stole 'em, and have some very accurate firearms...

NavyLCDR
July 21, 2011, 10:24 AM
What is the actual benefit to cleaning the barrel between every shot for the first 10, 20 or 50 rounds (or whatever increased cleaning routine is being suggested)?

CoRoMo
July 21, 2011, 10:28 AM
Shoot it over and over. Clean it again and again.

Eventually, you'll come to know the gun quite well and therefore you'll be able to shoot it better than before.

If you want to give the credit to "barrel break-in", fine. But IMO, you simply know how to shoot the gun now.

I don't believe much in the theory.

Sheepdog1968
July 21, 2011, 11:27 AM
I'd google Chuck Hawks as he has an excellent article about barrel break ins. Essentially he reccomends following manufacturer's instructions.

I have personally never done anything special other than shoot it. For most rifles I try and avoid the barrel getting hot.

Having said all of this, I'm a 3 MOA shooter. If I ever got to the point where I was a sub-MOA shooter, I might reconsider. That's very unlikely to happen since for me personally, 3 MOA is good enough for all that I enjoy doing with a rifle.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 21, 2011, 11:39 AM
I don't "break-in" my barrel just like I don't break-in anything else that I purchase new. I don't even break-in new vehicles any more, I just drive them, however I don't floor the thing for the first 500 to 1,000 miles, there is really no 'break-in' per se.

Cop Bob
July 21, 2011, 11:41 AM
Here is what Dan Lilja has to say about break in... I had one of his barrels installed.. I followed these instructions exactly.. so far my average group with that rifle in in the .260 range... Sorry, it's not a rifle anymore... It's a Long Range High Speed Drill....

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm

oerllikon
July 21, 2011, 11:46 AM
I just shoot some hot loads, and get the barrel a little hot. My logic behind this is that any machining marks, burrs etc will shoot out and smooth out. YMMV

I didnt do any formal break in on my marlin 925, and I could clean that thing in 1 patch :what:

Jonah71
July 21, 2011, 11:55 AM
i swab the barrel clean and shoot it.
works for me....I think after 500+ rounds in about 9 days my new cz bbl. may be about broken in. But just to be sure....another box or 2 tomorrow may be called for. Then I'll let it rest and stay out of the heat for a few days. I need to take a break and start looking for a .45acp anyway.

jcwit
July 21, 2011, 12:06 PM
I believe we should consider what type of use the barrel is going to be put to. Plus what kind of accuracy are we looking at? Hunting or Bench?

rori
July 22, 2011, 07:51 PM
I have a Savage 110 that I bought new about 43 years ago.For the first 20 or so years of its life the bore was never cleaned and it had at least a thousand rounds thru it. This rifle has taken well over 100 heads of big game and still shoots 1" or smaller 5 shot groups regularly. I don't know what more a person needs for killing game but I do know that whether it shoots 1/4" or 3" at 100 yards the animal I kill will never know the difference!!!!!!!!Do whatever floats your boat but believe me no hunting rifle cares about barrel break in. Frank

W.E.G.
July 22, 2011, 08:12 PM
...until you run out of ammo
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/humor/rambo6.jpg

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 11:50 AM
*BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!BANG! BANG! BANG!*

Repeat as desired. Clean when finished, just like normal. I was never aware of a need to break in your barrel.

Not attempting to shoot benchrest compition or wishing for 1/4 inch MOA accuracy are you.

I have a friend who shoots 30 round virtually every day, a custom barrels accuracy starts to fall off at 2,000 rounds. Barrels are cleaned at the end of every session.

IMHO break-in does help in his case, hunting rifles, not so much.

jimmyraythomason
July 23, 2011, 11:53 AM
Not attempting to shoot benchrest compition or wishing for 1/4 inch MOA accuracy are you.
I should think anyone wishing for such groups for such a purpose would buy custom hand lapped barrels to begin with.

garyhan
July 23, 2011, 11:56 AM
Barrel break in is one of those silly ideas that makes fodder for gun writers who are out of ideas.

gary

hardluk1
July 23, 2011, 12:17 PM
Stupid does as stupid people do.

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 01:38 PM
Stupid does as stupid people do.

Are you referring to Mr. Kreiger and Dan Lilja both custom barrel makers Stupid?

May hap you need to reevaluate how you reply.

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 01:45 PM
I should think anyone wishing for such groups for such a purpose would buy custom hand lapped barrels to begin with.


I realize neither one of the below shown custom barrel makers have no idea how a customer should treat the barrels they make. But then the customer does win matches.


http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm

jimmyraythomason
July 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
So much goes into making a rifle accurate. The barrel is only a part of the equation(albeit a LARGE part). The most meticulously made barrel can prove inaccurate if installed inconcentric with the receiver,improperly bedded or using poor sighting systems or helter skelter ammo. Some will argue that only cryo-frozen barrels are worthy for benchrest work..... I have found,in my own personal experience,not as a result of gun writers,barrel makers or anyone else's opinion,that barrel break-in rituals are as benefitial as arguing about it on the internet.

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 02:34 PM
Gotta admit that is a thought on the opinion. Or is it the other way around?

Flopsweat
July 23, 2011, 02:46 PM
...as benefitial as arguing about it on the internet.

+1

I strongly recommend that you at least run a patch through any new barrel before the very first shooting. I remember a new rifle that I did this with. A bunch of shiny stuff came out with the patch. It was metal shavings - enough to make you wonder if it would have kaboomed.

NavyLCDR
July 23, 2011, 06:34 PM
Nobody seems to be able to offer an answer to my question:

What is the actual benefit to cleaning the barrel between every shot for the first 10, 20 or 50 rounds (or whatever increased cleaning routine is being suggested)?

jimmyraythomason
July 23, 2011, 06:39 PM
Nobody seems to be able to offer an answer to my question:
Actually,I think your question has been answered many times over.What is the actual benefit to cleaning the barrel between every shot for the first 10, 20 or 50 rounds (or whatever increased cleaning routine is being suggested)?
You did read all the responses didn't you?

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 06:46 PM
LCDR I believe its one of those questions you have to answer for yourself. Some makers say to do it, others claim it does nothing good or bad and others claim it only shortenes the barrel with that many shots.

Owners claim the same.

So my suggestion "which means nothing" is to do as you wish. In other words "What ever trips your trigger".

I still lean towards the majority of makers who claim it helps, but that is only my opinion.

lloveless
July 23, 2011, 06:57 PM
I bought a mossy 702. Ran a patch through it till clean. I've been shooting 40 rounds daily since without cleaning. After 200 rounds, I'll run a patch through it til clean. ll

ants
July 23, 2011, 07:20 PM
According to rifle manufacturers like Dan Lilja, here's the answer:

The rifling itself isn't made by spinning a tool inside the bore, so that's not the problem.

But the chamber and freebore leade (the unrifled protion just beyond the chamber) are cut with reamers that are rotated inside the bore. That leaves concentric cut marks PERPENDICULAR to the travel of the bullet. Those first few centimeters are absolutely vital to a bullet centering itself in the bore so it cuts into the rifling correctly. It is truly vital because whatever attitude the bullet takes in the bore is the attitude it will take in flight.

A high-dollar custom barrel is carefully hand-lapped in that area to remove the tool marks. So a really really nice high-dollar rifle probably doesn't need it. But most barrels (especially production barrels) are not hand lapped.

So 'break in' is a procedure to let the first 10 to 50 rounds do that lapping for you. Be mindful that the freebore leade is the most critically vital, barrel makers tell us that the bore itself is important but less vital.

As the first 10 to 50 rounds are fired, the guilding metal brass jacket does that honing job. But to be effective you must remove the copper constantly, or the successive bullet will just ride on the copper deposit without lapping the machine marks. Most decent barrels will smooth the cut marks in 10 to 12 rounds. If really bad (a cheapie cheapie barrel) it may take as many as 50 rounds.

So how much difference does that make? If you blast factory ammo at targets for fun, you won't tell the difference. If you hunt game at reasonable distances (say 300 yards or less) you probably won't tell the difference. Those who start with a normal production gun and want to get the very most will likely enjoy a benefit. How much benefit? It depends upon how bad the cut marks were. And that varies individually from one barrel to the next, even on identical rifles made on the exact same production line just weeks apart.

Of course, this individuality makes it nearly impossible to quantify your own benefit. If you happen to take possession of a rifle with very few cut marks in the freebore, and an excellent bore all the way to the muzzle crown, it probably shoots great anyway. If you happen to get a lemon with a totally crap barrel that can't hit the wall of a barn from the inside (with the doors closed) all the break-in in the world won't help it.

You determine how important this issue is to you, and you make your own decision. It's your gun, not ours. You decide what makes you happy.


NOTE: The critical procedure is simple. Clean the barrel between shots for those first 10 or 12 rounds. Nothing more. No special ammo, no special time of day, no special prayer before each shot. Take the first dozen shots just as you would with any new rifle, setting the sights and getting accustomed to shooting it. Just take your cleaning kit with Copper bore cleaner (standard Hoppe's won't disolve copper from the cut marks) and clean between shots.

hardluk1
July 23, 2011, 07:26 PM
jcwit Guess you did not look for my earlier post. Heck no, I own a Krieger barrel. Its the guys that only shoot only heck out of a barrel with out cleaning type. If its ak . I ain't investing good money to just shot the heck out of it with out some forum of breakin. 22 rimefires are a bit different too. Clean well new, shoot a bit . Better grade barrels don't need as much as say a rem, marlin or ruger stock barrel.

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 09:18 PM
jcwit Guess you did not look for my earlier post. Heck no, I own a Krieger barrel. Its the sguys that only shoot only heck out of a barrel with out cleaning type. If its ak . I ain't investing good money to just shot the heck out of it with out some forum of breakin. 22 rimefires are a bit different too. Clean well new, shoot a bit . Better grade barrels don't need as much as say a rem, marlin or ruger stock barrel.

Where pray tell is this earlier post you speak of?

Geckgo
July 23, 2011, 09:38 PM
Well, it seems like the OP was asking what each of us does individually and what our personal opion on break in is. Don't know why people are arguing my than just to argue, but whatever, I'll answer the op.

I do nothing special on rifles. The first Rem700 I got I would shoot 3-5 clean, repeat, after about 3 groups I got tired of the nonsense, zeroed the gun, cleaned it and took it home.

Now I just swab them out and shoot them.

On auto pistols, I don't so much break in the barrel but I like to break in the slide, so I cycle it by hand about 100-400 times (depending on the weapon), take it down, clean and grease, applying oil where needed, then I put 200-400 rounds down range on her first trip, then clean the living crap out of her, oil and grease again. Makes her feel all smooth and heavenly :)

My "thoughts" on barrel breakin?? There may be something to the "throat deburring" nonsense that internet articles like to talk about, but I never really understood how gliding metal would smooth out a much harder barrel medal. I try not to think about it and if I were going to do a barrel break in again, I would do it to annoy people at the range.

1. Buy a live chicken.
2. Go to the range.
3. Teach the chicken to shoot.
... Well, there's several steps but it basically ends the same way no matter how you do it, several people stop by to ask what the hell is wrong with you before they leave.

wheelgunslinger
July 23, 2011, 09:45 PM
I don't do anything to break in a barrel.
It's not like it's the 18th century anymore. Pretty much everything you can buy from a brand name maker is going to be very nice metal and quality will be very good.
So, I clean and shoot.

HD Fboy
July 23, 2011, 10:17 PM
It is my understanding that barrel lapping increases accuracy and decreases barrel life. I doubt it does a statistically significantly better job than shooting 200-300 rounds through the gun. Go shoot 20 rounds for 10 days in a row. Keep every target. I bet your groups tighten significantly.

In my opinion barrel break in is a waste except where it forces the shooter to take careful, multiple shots with a firearm the shooter is not familiar with. I can't remember ever cleaning the barrel of a new gun and the initial patch showing damage from the metal.

This business of closing the bore pores without copper and lead MAY be true. And MAY make it easier to make a barrel spotless.

But effect accuracy, for 99.9% of us I don't think so. I think comfort with the firearm is much more important to accuracy than anything else.

HOWARD J
July 23, 2011, 10:29 PM
I never heard about breaking in a barrel until I got on this site.
All my rifles will kill a deer around or below 100 yards-- In MI that is fine with me.

jcwit
July 23, 2011, 11:09 PM
I never heard about breaking in a barrel until I got on this site.
All my rifles will kill a deer around or below 100 yards-- In MI that is fine with me.

@jcwit

I'm not at all looking for accuracy. So long as I have fun, hit my target, and learn, I consider that to be enough. I tried the accuracy thing and going for long distance marksmanship is definitely not my game. Skeet, however, is.


Hey guys, go back and read my post #35 and note what I said about hunting rifles.

Howard, Try that rifle at your local Benchrest match and see if it puts any money in your pocket. Meat on the table is one thing and money in the purse is another. Yes they do hold them in your area, if in fact you are located in SE MI, check out the club shoots Hillsdale MI club.

I was RSO at the NRA National Smallbore Metric Matches this last week at Bristol, In., and the purses were well worth it. IIRC top prize was $500 or more.

Precision accuracy does pay off!

HOWARD J
July 24, 2011, 12:26 AM
@jc
Jc, I have enuf problems staying alive without looking to get into shooting matches.
I have been shooting 60 some years--I am happy with that.
You have fun now, hear...............

NavyLCDR
July 24, 2011, 12:35 AM
I guess the 10 guys that had the $2,000 + match grade center fire rifles in everything from .223 to .308 and up with their $500+ optics should have done better barrel break-in routines when my $500 Ruger 10/22 with a $100 BSA Sweet .22 Scope beat them all at a 100 yard bench rest competition. Only one rifle beat mine out of 12 of us entered....

Oh well, to each his own. Some people just have fun doing the fancy routines, more power to them.

RevDerb
July 24, 2011, 06:27 AM
I subscribe to the theory that all new firearms are possessed so I immediately (or as soon as possible ;)) take any new one to the range and shoot the H*** out of it. :D

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 09:28 AM
I guess the 10 guys that had the $2,000 + match grade center fire rifles in everything from .223 to .308 and up with their $500+ optics should have done better barrel break-in routines when my $500 Ruger 10/22 with a $100 BSA Sweet .22 Scope beat them all at a 100 yard bench rest competition. Only one rifle beat mine out of 12 of us entered....

Oh well, to each his own. Some people just have fun doing the fancy routines, more power to them.


Post a picture of a target!

4v50 Gary
July 24, 2011, 02:06 PM
Any old timer here remembers a thread on TFL where Gale McMillan simply said, just shoot it.

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 03:24 PM
Yes that has been brought up, but out of 4 barrel makers I picked at random he was the only one to give that advice. The other three suggested to do a break-in.

M-Cameron
July 24, 2011, 05:38 PM
Any old timer here remembers a thread on TFL where Gale McMillan simply said, just shoot it.

this pretty much sums it up.....
http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 06:44 PM
this pretty much sums it up.....
http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html
__________________


Already been thru that.

And this also pretty much sums it up! Would not just have been easier to read the posts the first time?

I realize neither one of the below shown custom barrel makers have no idea how a customer should treat the barrels they make. But then the customer does win matches.


http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_...246-wp2558.htm

http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/...aintenance.htm





I assume these makers know nothing about their products?????????????

The above sites were also gleaned from 6mmbr web site.

jimmyraythomason
July 24, 2011, 06:48 PM
I wonder how many custom barrel makers would warranty a barrel that had been "broken in"?I assume these makers know nothing about their products????????????? Or maybe they know their barrels haven't been properly finished? Just a thought.

M-Cameron
July 24, 2011, 07:00 PM
the fact is......no one has shown any definitive proof that "Breaking-in" a barrel has ANY effect on performance...

...if its such a wonderful thing, ide imagine it would be pretty easy for someone to prove it actually works.....however, ive yet to see anything.

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 07:06 PM
Nor has anyone shown the opposite to be true.

For some oddball reason I tend to believe the makers. Just as I follow the maintence recommendations of vehicles I buy and all other products. For some reason the maker usually knows his product, not sure why.

Geno
July 24, 2011, 07:08 PM
Thanks, fellas! This has been one of the better threads I have read. Several posts have contained serious food-for-thought!

Geno

M-Cameron
July 24, 2011, 07:17 PM
Nor has anyone shown the opposite to be true.

For some oddball reason I tend to believe the makers. Just as I follow the maintence recommendations of vehicles I buy and all other products. For some reason the maker usually knows his product, not sure why.

......thats akin to saying "no one has ever proved god doesnt exist."

the burden of proof falls on the people making the claim......you are the people saying "barrel break-in does XXXXX"...its up to you to prove it.

if i were to come to you and say that the world is actually cube shaped.....and you called me on it, and asked me to prove it.........how would you react if i said "no, you prove it isnt"



secondly, i hear some barrel makers suggest a "break-in".........but they never say exactly why.......

what is to gain from "breaking in" a professionally lapped and honed barrel?

just because a company suggets a certain practice.....doesnt mean its effective....or even good for the barrel.....
....heck, at one time, doctors practiced blood letting to cure diseases and treat ailments......dont see that being practiced too commonly now-a-days....

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 07:26 PM
All I can add Cameron is that is your opinion, such as it is, just as I have my opinion such as it is.

No we do not use blood letting as a cure, no more than we stone witches or burn them at the stake to save ourselves.

Now lets get to some INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS

M-Cameron
July 24, 2011, 07:48 PM
interesting tidbit from Shilen Barrels

How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?
Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don't just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.
http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10


from hart barrels

We do not believe that a break in procedure is required with our barrels. If you follow our normal cleaning procedure, outlined in this brochure, you should not have any problems with your new rifle. You always want to clean your rifle as often as your course of fire will allow. If you have time to shoot one and clean, that would be fine, but we personally do not feel it is necessary. Please be sure to only use the cleaning solvents listed in our cleaning instructions.
http://www.hartbarrels.com/faq.php


the fact that there are so many differing opinions among barrel makers should lend credence to the fact that "break-in" has no performance enhancing abilities.

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 08:08 PM
the fact that there are so many differing opinions among barrel makers should lend credence to the fact that "break-in" has no performance enhancing abilities.
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And of course due to the fact there is so many differing opinions among barrel makers should lend credence to the fact that "break-in" does in fact have performance enhancing abilities.

Who knows for positive which way it in fact goes. You have your opinion as do I. Respect mine and I will will yours. Neither of us know for positive.

The Lone Haranguer
July 24, 2011, 08:17 PM
I don't. :p But my primary interest is handguns, and there isn't enough accuracy potential in a handgun to make elaborate breakin procedures worthwhile.

jcwit
July 24, 2011, 08:19 PM
Now that is the truth.

biologicole
July 24, 2011, 09:33 PM
I'm glad to see all the responses and get a lot of good, thought provoking discussion. It's exactly why I asked the question. I mostly shoot from the bench nowadays and my interests are more toward sub-moa accuracy and shooting at 600 yards than toward deer hunting. 35 years ago I never worried too much about barrel break-in. In fact, I never heard too much about it. The guns I shot back then weren't out-of-the-box moa accurate and at that time 1" groups at 100 yards accuracy was kind of the holy grail. In the last 10-15 years that I've gotten more into benchrest shooting and paid more attention to details, one of them being barrel break-in procedures and whether it really is necessary or makes any significant improvement in accuracy. Apparently there is a great difference in opinion. I haven't been able to draw any definite conclusions about whether barrel break-in is science or superstition, but here is my current thinking on the subject -- The whole fire one shot and clean for the first 10 rounds, etc., may or may not be effective but it sure can't hurt anything.

ZeroJunk
July 25, 2011, 08:35 PM
The thing about it is, the custom barrel maker is not necessarily the one who cuts the chamber. Matter of fact he likely isn't. So, he has no control over the condition of the reamer and how the barrel is throated. You can have the most pristine barrel in the world and have a burr left by the rifle builder.

jcwit
July 25, 2011, 09:53 PM
Bingo, sure took a long time for that to come to light.

NavyLCDR
July 26, 2011, 12:11 AM
Post a picture of a target!

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4748/20100901223446.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5063/dsc02610v.jpg

Top target was one of four competition targets. Both at 100 yards with a Ruger 10/22 with a properly broken-in barrel, in other words, shot until accuracy degrades then cleaned.

This is the gun, except the scope pictured was replaced with a BSA Sweet .22.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5711/dsc02601x.jpg

jcwit
July 26, 2011, 08:35 AM
Not a bad group for a 10/22 but sorry to say that wouldn't even place at our benchrest compition here in So. Michigan, in both smallbore or center fire. I have no photos in my camera, so am unable to post pictures but will in the future if my old brain can remember.

I looking over some of my records I find 100 yd groups .125 center to center fired from a Rem. 700 vls in .223 cal. Also groups measuring .135 center to center from a H & R M12 using S/K Jaeg Target Match ammo at 50 yds and groups .282 center to center from a Rem M540XR using RWS Target ammo at 100 yds.

Furthermore try shooting for score and not for group using the American Rimfire Assoc., 25 bull target, placing 1 shot per bull. Shooting thus will really show the skill level of both the shooter and his equipment.

ants
July 26, 2011, 01:01 PM
The way some of these guys get so venemous about it.
It's curious that they care so much about other people's habits.

Frankly, it's your business what decision you make regarding breaking in your own rifles.
My opinions (and my guns) are only precious to me, not to you.



The important thing is to go out there and do whatever you wish to do.

jcwit
July 26, 2011, 08:01 PM
ants, please note my post #73.

Deltaboy
July 26, 2011, 09:57 PM
Seems like I hear about a lot of different theories and methods regarding barrel break-in. What are your thoughts about barrel break-in? Is it really necessary? How do you do it?
I shoot 250 rounds on a Center fire and clean with JB Bore Cleaner. I shoot 500 rounds through a 22 rimfire and clean the bore with JB.

SHOOOTER1
July 27, 2011, 02:10 PM
have to agree with navy-lcdr. if you can tell me how these break in procedures change the structural or molecular steel the barrel is make of,maybe i will reconsider. but to each his own.

lightman
July 27, 2011, 02:40 PM
On a factory rifle,I just clean it before shooting it,and don't worry about a break-in.On my custom barrels,I clean it first,then shoot it once,patch it out ,shoot again,patch it out,and continue until I don't get any copper out.That is usually around seven or eight shots.This is not very expensive or time consuming.You can also use these shots as part of your sight-in,or the beginning of your load development,so nothing is really wasted.I really don't know if this is necessary,or helpful,I just do it.After the cost of the barrel,the gunsmithing charges,and the wait,eight shots is not very much. Lightman

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