Ohio CCW holder threatened with execution- what you can do!


PDA






Superpsy
July 21, 2011, 12:41 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=604406&p=7456767#post7456767

More info in thread link listed above. What can you do?

1. Distribute this video as far and wide as you can. Submit it to Drudge, tweet it, share on facebook, post on other forums, share with local news casters, share with bloggers. The more exposure this story gets the better. As I write this the story is already getting exposure on some national conservative blogs (www.hotair.com).

2. Donate for the driver/ccw holder's criminal defense defense (charged with not notifying). (www.ohioccw.org/cantonpd)

3. If you're in Ohio call your legislators.



MODERATOR NOTE: If you want to comment on the incident behind this course of action refer to the other threads and limit discussion here to the OP's plan.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ohio CCW holder threatened with execution- what you can do!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Agmundr
July 21, 2011, 01:10 PM
After seeing the previous thread on it and then seeing the video posted by The Survival Podcast on Facebook, I watched it and immediately shared it. This sort of thing makes me absolutely sick.

Dnaltrop
July 28, 2011, 06:54 PM
Folks.. the previous video threads have been shut and discussed to death until new information appears...

The activisim forum is for discussing actions to be taken, not to continue the discussions that have been shut down already.

For my part I've spread the video around , especially to the on-the-fence friends. Not much to do as I really have no need to go to Ohio, so boycotting the state is a hollow gesture.

Edit- Sorry Hso.. couldn't resist... you DID put it in big blue text at the top... Just don't want to see the thread locked till we have a resolution on the incident :D

CrankyOldGuy
July 28, 2011, 09:03 PM
Another Video of Harless in this linked article, with very similarly worded threats, but this time it's not a CHL holder. Apparently he's being investigated for both incidents. While this second incident isn't as heinous as the Bartlett video, Harless' raging is eerily similar.

http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x2014919089/Video-Officer-Harless-loses-his-temper-on-another-arrest

Might want to distribute both videos. There is obviously a pattern of abuse here.

hso
August 1, 2011, 12:59 AM
Folks, Dnaltrop has pointed out that this is not the place to rant about the incident itself. If you don't have something to contribute to the action called for by the OP find another forum to discuss it.

Strykervet
August 1, 2011, 06:37 PM
I'm not in Ohio, but I am in America, so I called the Canton PD and left a message telling them what they can do with Danny Harless. If everytime this happened a storm of discontent comes down from above, things may change a little for the better.

Sadly it is the police policies that attract these kinds of individuals in the first place. No responsibility, no real fear of losing your job or doing time, get to carry a pistol and treat anyone you meet like trash.

This is a dream job for some people, and some people look at this way. How about calling your local legislature et. al., and tell them to institute some kind of new hiring and selection protocol as well as some kind of law that offers real jail time punishment for heinous crimes committed by cops.

Russ Jackson
August 1, 2011, 07:39 PM
...Russ

jon_in_wv
August 2, 2011, 06:33 AM
I WILL be donating to this guys legal defense fund. I'm also going to write a letter or two asking for the dismissal of the officers involved. Their behavior was reprehensible.

Dave Workman
August 2, 2011, 08:26 AM
THANKS!
I'll be mentioning this thread prominently in my Gun Rights Examiner column today


===============================================================


And here it is:

NW activists follow new developments in Canton, OH ‘cop stop’ case


...In the meantime, gun owners may be following the lead of members on TheHighRoad.org forum, where they have been discussing actions that Bartlett’s supporters may take on his behalf, including contributing to a defense fund. (That’s why they call it “The High Road.”)...

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/nw-activists-follow-new-developments-canton-oh-cop-stop-case

SpentCasing
August 2, 2011, 08:34 PM
Dave, great article, but no mention of Ohioans for Concealed Carry? I find that strange seeing as they are the primary site since before the video got released, also for the defense fund. One member alone donated $50K.

J.A.D.
August 2, 2011, 11:59 PM
In all honesty, the lawyers should be working this out, not those of us who can only speculate. The only thing we can do as the legion of the law abiding is watch, and have due diligence in the future where we might find ourselves in similar situations. I am going to be taking the CCW course in the near future, and there are 3 actual courses, that I plan to take before I even apply for the permit.

The thing is, I want to have my own ducks in a row, so that if I did ever find myself in trouble, that I would be protected as any CCW carrier should be.

Davek1977
August 3, 2011, 06:17 AM
The only thing we can do as the legion of the law abiding is watch, and have due diligence in the future where we might find ourselves in similar situations.

Actually, NO, thats NOT "ALL" we can do in this case. Our voices need to be heard. The wholesale labeling of CCW'ers as bloodthirsty killers that deserve the harsh tactics used on them by Harlass and others like him cannot be allowed to continue. While training is important, I don't see how it would have changed the outcome here. The subject made several attempts at complying with the law as written. In return, he was bullied, threatened, and exposed to behavior that should NEVER come from a sworn officer in uniform, no matter WHAT the circumstances. As citizens we have a voice and a duty to use that voice when we see injustices. Legal proceedings may ultimately deal any punishment, but as citizens, we have a duty to let our feelings be known on controversial issues. The officer's actions were appalling, as were the comments made by the city commisioner basically excusing his behavior without outright saying it. There is a culture of ignorance and hatred towards gun owners, and we need to fight with every tool we have, including our individual voices

Mainsail
August 3, 2011, 01:22 PM
Does anyone have any contact info for the Chief, or anyone else? This thread isn't going to result in much activism without it. I have friends in Ohio, and would love to pass the Chief's email address along to them so they can write.

TexasBill
August 3, 2011, 10:14 PM
Here you go, the entire lineup:

Dean L. McKimm, Chief
Canton Police Department
221 Third Street S.W.
Canton, OH 44702
330-489-3100

The Honorable William J. Healy II
Mayor, City of Canton
P.O. Box 24218
Canton, OH 44701

Allen Schulman
President, Canton City Council
Canton City Hall
218 Cleveland Avenue SW
Canton, OH 44702
330-489-3223

Ms. Chris Smith
Chairperson, Public Safety Committee
Canton City Council
Canton City Hall
218 Cleveland Avenue SW
Canton, OH 44702
330-489-3223

Schulman is the lawyer who lost it on the radio show, saying he wanted to repeal Ohio's CCW laws, among other things.

Circuit Rider
August 11, 2011, 09:25 PM
My wife and I were planning a trip to our Daughters home just west of Erie,Pa. We were going out of our way to see the First Ladys' Museum and Football Pro Hall in Canton. When this happened I emailed the director of the museum and explained with police acting in such a reckless manner, we would go through W.Va. and up I-59. She sent my email to the Chief in Canton, and I received an email about my " knee jerk" reaction. I feel for you guys in Ohio, as a retired long haul trucker, I experienced first hand the tactics of State Troopers and DOT personnel. CR

hso
August 13, 2011, 10:25 AM
See moderator note in first post.

stickhauler
August 15, 2011, 01:30 AM
As for e-mail contact for city officials, it's simply their firstname.lastname@cantonohio.gov

example:

allen.schulman@cantonohio.gov

rooter
September 1, 2011, 09:54 AM
2. Donate for the driver/ccw holder's criminal defense defense (charged with not notifying). (www.ohioccw.org/cantonpd)

Support a subject who clearly violated Ohio CCW laws by failing to notify upon INITIAL CONTACT. Absolutely not! I'll support his conviction and 12 month revocation, nothing else.

Carl N. Brown
September 1, 2011, 10:41 PM
One thing you can do is when you link to a source, include a bibliographic style author, title, source, date citation.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/exclusive-third-dash-cam-video-released-of-canton-police-officer-making-death-threats

Sarah Buduson, "Exclusive: Third dash cam video released of Canton police officer making death threats", wews tv newsnet5.com, 25 Aug 2011.

The reader can see that it is a mainstream source--the local Ohio TV--before linking. Plus if the article is moved making a dead link, the title can be searched.

rooter
September 4, 2011, 01:17 AM
I see things for what they are and don't let a perceived infringement of my 2A cloud my judgement. I challenge you to count the seconds from initial officer contact to his first attempt to notify. I also challenge you to count the seconds of down time (no talking by anyone) from initial contact to the time he advised. Look at the facts, remove the personal bias, and see that he had ample opportunity to notify. I won't support him one iota. Supporting the guilty to meet our personal agenda does nothing but discredit us. Pick and choose your battles wisely.

Purgatory
September 4, 2011, 07:32 AM
You are so right, Rooter.

This citizen is a major menace to society. You can see clearly by his blatant disrespect for these officers and the law, in general, that he should be locked up and never allowed to own a firearm again.

Yeah, Good Call, Rooter.

Remember: Even the sheep who bows down to the 'Wolves in authority' gets eaten in the end.

Pick and choose your battles wisely.

The battle you refer to, here, is the battle for the citizens of this 'once' great country to be allowed to own, carry and utilize firearms for self defense.

You are one of very, VERY few people who could watch this video and find this citizen in the 'wrong' and this officer not GROSSLY out of line.

Supporting the guilty to meet our personal agenda does nothing but discredit us.

Guilty til proven innocent? Hmm...that sounds familiar.

With every single law comes discretion, Rooter. Any sane person can take one look at this incident and see clearly that things were blown WAY out of proportion. This citizen is one of the least threatening people this officer could've encountered. His "crime" is hardly something to crucify him for. He may very well be admonished for his lack of notifying immediately, but turning so vehemently against him and standing on the side of strict citizen 'controls' is not the position to take.

You may very well strive to follow every single rule and law to the letter, but you can still get totally 'screwed' by law enforcement and the legal system.

Now, the mods are welcome to erase this post since they erased my last opinionated post about this incident.

Funny how Rooter's very rare opinion was allowed to stay.

Carl N. Brown
September 4, 2011, 11:27 AM
Activism: what to do about this. Play the video, point out the guy tries to notify and is told to shut up. Then when Harless notices the guy has his drivers license and carry permit in his hand, Harless goes off on a rant about how he will or he should kill the guy. THEN play the THIRD video that surfaced in which Harless stops a car and threatens he will or he should kill the driver (with NO concealed carry involved, it appears the problem is not the permit holder in the first video).

There is a reason forty states decided not to require legal permit holders to notify, some going from shall notify to not necessary. Did the Ohio permit holder who was threatened with summary execution ever make an action or motion that a reasonable person would perceive as an imminent threat?

altitude_19
September 4, 2011, 11:53 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't he attempt to hand over his CCW permit? Either way, failure to inform is just too subjective for my tastes. What's the deadline? Is it 5 seconds? 10? 2? Sounds sorta like "failure to do right" from "that" IDPA RO so many shooters complain about. Another bogus charge to be whipped out at the convenience of a bully with a badge.

rooter
September 4, 2011, 01:58 PM
This citizen is one of the least threatening people this officer could've encountered. His "crime" is hardly something to crucify him for. He may very well be admonished for his lack of notifying immediately, but turning so vehemently against him and standing on the side of strict citizen 'controls' is not the position to take.

OK, I get it! He broke the law, BUT because it involved firearms and we are a pro 2A group, we should overlook it because he didn't break the law "too badly" and because it gives us an opportunity to "take a stand."

The law is black and white in this situation. There was a clear cut violation of Ohio law. I do not support those who break the law, period, whether it is a law I do not believe in, and whether I do not like the actions of the officer enforcing it. Whether the citizen was threatening has no bearing, but it is evidence that you are unable to weigh the relevant facts in this incident.

I suggest we be smart and not reflexive and supportive of the wrong people in incidents where we cannot defend their actions. Donate to the NRA, support lawful activities and offer defense when lawful activities are infringed upon. It will assist us in not being classified right/left wing nuts and extremists.

rooter
September 4, 2011, 03:20 PM
Still no takers on the challenge....

Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't he attempt to hand over his CCW permit? Either way, failure to inform is just too subjective for my tastes. What's the deadline? Is it 5 seconds? 10? 2? Sounds sorta like "failure to do right" from "that" IDPA RO so many shooters complain about. Another bogus charge to be whipped out at the convenience of a bully with a badge.

Initial contact means just that. I'll even break it down to KG level, the first words you utter when a LEO contacts you is that you are packing a CCW. Easy enough and well covered in Ohio CCW classes. Not done in this video.

altitude_19
September 4, 2011, 05:01 PM
You sure? I thought he got cut off when he tried informing... Trouble with the bandwidth right now, so I can't look at the moment to be certain. Somebody else weigh in on this, please? Either way, still subjective (you just want it to be simple). Last time I was stopped, I said "hello" before I informed. Am I guilty of the same crime?

Mike1234567
September 4, 2011, 05:09 PM
Harless didn't let the man speak and highly intimidated him. If I had been the man in the car I would have escalated my voice until he heard me. But most folks won't do that.

altitude_19
September 4, 2011, 05:15 PM
Yeah...I'm not much for shouting at sociopaths carrying Glocks...but that might be just me.

zxcvbob
September 4, 2011, 05:20 PM
I watched the video a couple of weeks ago. The driver started telling the Harless he had a CCW as soon as the he finally approached the driver, and the Harless interrupted him and cut him off. The driver tried again and the cop went ballistic this time and arrested him for failure to notify. This was all several minutes after the other cop climbed in the back seat, totally ignoring the driver. What was Harless doing while all this was going on?

How was the driver to have handled it any better? In hindsight he should have continued his little notification speech, but I don't think it would have mattered. They would have still arrested him for not notifying when the cop climbed in the back seat, even though he had no duty to do so. Or maybe Harless would have just shot him right there for "You shut up when I'm talking to you!" (there's a lawsuit just filed in California where 3 cops pulled somebody out of a car and tazed him for 10 minutes until he was electrocuted to death -- because he honked his horn at them. 5 spent taser cartridges were found at the scene, so they must have reloaded. The incident happened months ago; the FBI is still investigating it)

Mike1234567
September 4, 2011, 05:39 PM
Yeah...I'm not much for shouting at sociopaths carrying Glocks...but that might be just me.

I didn't say I'd "shout". I said escalated voice.:)

rooter
September 4, 2011, 11:41 PM
3:19-4:17 58 seconds at the initial contact without a word being spoken by an officer or the accused. For a full 58 seconds of silence he failed to notify. And for the record, Officer Harless was not the officer who initially contacted the accused, so your arguments about him being a sociopath, etc. are moot. The violation took place before Harless had contact, as well as when Harless contacted him.

Obviously rooter didn't bother watching the video.

Jeff H, evidently I am the only one who both watched and comprehended the video. I must ask, did YOU actually watch the video?

I recommend supporting the innocent.

zxcvbob
September 5, 2011, 12:32 AM
58 seconds at the initial contact without a word being spoken by an officer or the accused. For a full 58 seconds of silence he failed to notify. And for the record, Officer Harless was not the officer who initially contacted the accused, so your arguments about him being a sociopath, etc. are moot. The violation took place before Harless had contact, as well as when Harless contacted him.The initial contact was when Harless finally approached the driver. He had no official contact with the unnamed cop who jumped in the back seat (which was really stupid on the cop's part, but maybe he though his partner was handling that)

RX-178
September 5, 2011, 06:14 AM
I'm not a mod, but I just want to say personally that I would be enjoying this thread a lot more if we stopped feeding the troll and focused on the actual course of action. Activism board, after all.

That being said, I can't really come up with anything to add. Letters, signatures, etc...

hso
September 5, 2011, 12:56 PM
RX-178 is on target.

The bickering and personal attacks end now or I'll eject the members that fail to attack the argument instead of the people they're arguing with. Be civil in your debate.

Kaeto
September 5, 2011, 06:52 PM
From listening closely to the vid the driver tried to say something (possibly attempting to notify) when the cop got in his back seat and that cop told him to "shut up".

mgregg85
September 9, 2011, 12:47 AM
This matter is up to the courts now, the video isn't clear enough for any of us to decide whether or not the defendant was thorough enough in his efforts to notify the officers.

What is important is helping the defendant and getting Harless removed from the police force as soon as possible.

Is there anything new to this case? It has been a little while.

Is there anything more we can do to help?

bigfatdave
September 9, 2011, 08:36 AM
Is there anything new to this case? It has been a little while.

News searches for "Daniel Harless" turn up interesting things:

CANTON ó
A disciplinary hearing for a police officer who threatened to execute a driver has been postponed until Dec. 1 at the request of the union, which says the patrolman has been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.http://www.cantonrep.com/carousel/x549434878/Harless-hearing-postponed-police-union-cites-stress
Looks like he's too traumatized to go to a hearing, but is A-OK to be out and about in a 2000# motorized battering ram and to carry a deadly weapon while representing the people of Canton.

Also ...

Reports from two officers, three others shed light on Canton police video
Note about sources
The five accounts presented here of the June 8 traffic stop involving William Barlett and Patrolman Daniel Harless are from the Canton Police Departmentís internal affairs investigation of Harless.
An internal affairs investigator, Lt. Mark Nolte, interviewed four of the people whose accounts are given: Bartlett, Kimberly Bigler, Patrolman Mark Diels and Quincy Turner. Their accounts are drawn from transcripts of those interviews.
The Harless account is drawn from the routine police report he wrote after the stop.
Harless was not interviewed by an internal affairs investigator. Typically, an officer who is the target of an investigation is subject to a tape-recorded interview, said Kristen Bates Aylward, an assistant city law director. But exceptions can be made when an officer such as Harless is on medical leave, she said.
The police department provided all of the information in response to a public records request from The Repository.

http://www.cantonrep.com/carousel/x1654949523/Reports-from-two-officers-three-others-shed-light-on-Canton-police-video

Some interviews from all the people involved and a summary of Harless's report on the first video ... interesting reading, I'd recommend re-watching the video carefully and comparing it to the statements of the various involved parties.

And then I'd recommend contacting the ruling class of Canton and reminding them how embarrassing their hiring choices are.

Purgatory
September 9, 2011, 08:49 AM
......Sickening.

Here's a step in the right direction.

http://www.change.org/petitions/william-j-healy-canton-police-dept-dismiss-officer-harless-prosecute-him?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=own_wall

DT Guy
October 20, 2011, 09:57 AM
I plan to let the elected officials of Canton (not the PD, or chief, but those who appoint him) know that I now consider Canton too dangerous to visit, and will inform all whom I know to avoid it, as their police are obviously completely beyond the control of the government or law.

We also need to push, and push hard, for this officer's criminal prosecution; assault is assault, whether you're wearing a blue suit or not, and that man is obviously a criminal in every sense of the word.

Don't settle for police discipline-the protection AND SANCTIONS of the law need to apply to LEO's as well as mere mortals, or we surrender any hope of a civil society.

Larry

preachnhunt
December 1, 2011, 09:48 PM
Is there any new news on this?
In Bigfatdave's post #37 it said there would be a hearing on Dec. 1.

jmstevens2
December 1, 2011, 09:58 PM
1. The cop is not working, he has been put on medical leave pending the Psych issues.
2. Some if not all charges I understand to have been dropped. I don't know if it was all, or some.
3. Ohio Rep Danny Bubp (LTC USMC Ret) has introduced legislation to repeal the requirement to notify. Buckeye Firearms Assn is probably one of the best sources of info on this.

That might be a good clearinghouse to rant and or get specific info.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ohio CCW holder threatened with execution- what you can do!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!