Poor Gun safety at LGS.


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NMBrian
July 21, 2011, 12:32 PM
So let me start off by saying I moved to New Mexico from the Detroit area back in 2009. One of the first things on my list was to make nice nice with the local gun shop. I have been frequenting this store since day one, they give me discounts on everything I buy, we are all on a first name basis, etc, etc.

I currently have a glock 19 on layaway and went in after work yesterday to see what they would give me on my PF9 as a trade in towards it. I bring in my PF9, unloaded, empty mag inserted, plus an empty spare mag in the case. I explain to the guy behind the counter what I wanted to do, he takes the case, opens it, picks up the kel-tec, drops the mag and proceeds to right in front of me, pull the trigger (he did at least point the muzzle towards the wall). :banghead:

Never once did a chamber check, he didnt even think twice, just dropped the mag, then went straight for the trigger.

What would you all have done in that situation? For some reason I just let it slide, never said a word about it. (I knew it was clear because I triple checked it before leaving the house with it, but still!:fire:).

Any who, dunno why I felt like posting this, I just needed to tell someone I guess. I have never seen a major safety violation like this in their shop.

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MedWheeler
July 21, 2011, 12:41 PM
"Wow. I guess it's a good thing I didn't leave a round in the chamber, huh?" Then, move on to business. A kid (well, a man now) is doing hard time for killing a friend doing the exact same thing, though it's likely he wasn't as gun-smart as a LGS owner should be.

NMBrian
July 21, 2011, 12:43 PM
Wow. I guess it's a good thing I didn't leave a round in the chamber, huh?

Yea, I regret not saying anything, I was just in shock standing there with my mouth open.

CraigC
July 21, 2011, 12:43 PM
Sometimes you're just too shocked to speak!

Ala Dan
July 21, 2011, 01:19 PM
Salesperson must have been a "newbie" in the business; and had not had the
proper training to handle such task~! I would have politely explained to him
that "all firearms are loaded, all of the time" is the theory that he [and all
employee's] & (everyone for that matter), should follow. I live by it religiously.

Too_Pure
July 21, 2011, 01:51 PM
When LGS guys hand me a gun whithout checking it I do the check, very deliberately, and show him the empty chamber. I think maybe they get lazy doing it all the time. It's no excuse, though.

chrt396
July 21, 2011, 02:00 PM
When I take any gun in to a shop either for trade, service or accessories, I always drop the magazine and pull the slide back in a locked position before they put their hot little hands on it. It's the same when a store presents a gun to you. Before they let you handle it, they drop the magazine and assure that the chamber is clear.
However..if he snagged it out of the box before you had a chance to and did what he did...I probably wouldn't say much. I would just know that the next time to keep it away from him until it's cleared. It's always a good practice.

Heck...I always keep my guns unloaded with the exception of one gun that I carry in my vehicle. I racked back the slide on one of my range guns, (Glock) before I cleaned it, to find that there was still 1 round in the chamber!! :eek:
If I was NOT in the habit of clearing the chamber before I handled a gun..I would have been in a world of hurt! :uhoh:

youngda9
July 21, 2011, 02:41 PM
If you see someone doing something wrong, please speak up and correct them so the next person doesn't get shot accidentally. No need to complain about it, it's just a correction that people need sometimes. Even GS workers can become lazy and complacent.

SARDiver
July 21, 2011, 06:05 PM
When LGS guys hand me a gun whithout checking it I do the check, very deliberately, and show him the empty chamber. I think maybe they get lazy doing it all the time. It's no excuse, though.

I check the chamber myself, even if I saw them do it.

When I was about 15, my father was showing a .22 revolver we had to a friend of his. I asked to see the weapon. My father looked at the cylinder, closed it, and handed me the gun. I immediately opened the cylinder and checked for myself.

His friend said something to the effect of, "Don't you trust your own father?" Before I could reply that I was doing what I'd been taught, and was correct, my father proudly told him the same thing, and that if I hadn't done it, it would have been the last time I handled one of his firearms.

Anyone who takes offense for pointing out a safety issue, or for you double checking something for yourself, is not someone to do business with, IMO.


Oh, one other thing...I was raised in Glendale. This happened in our old home at 55th Ave and Cholla. Haven't been there in years and years.

jmresistance
July 21, 2011, 09:11 PM
I had a friend who bought a handgun at a Pawn Shop, apparently without racking the slide or inspecting it at all. He got home, pulled it out of the box, drew down on the cat which was walking on the back of the couch and pulled the trigger. The poor cat got a 9mm in the starfish and it came out his face. That's the way the story went by the time I heard it anyway...

Aoshi
July 22, 2011, 12:32 AM
I personally check every time, regardless if the guy handing it to me JUST checked. Even then I'll pull the trigger in a safe location.

I actually picked up a new 1911 today from Gander Mountain. My buddy works there and got me a good deal. But a different guy was there, pulled the gun out of the clamshell (I personally saw the gun unloaded, and put in the case on Friday). He then proceeded to wave it around, pointing it at me, without checking. The gun was cocked, hammer back, safety off, finger inside the trigger. I nearly bashed his head in.

ColtPythonElite
July 22, 2011, 12:41 AM
In a situation like that, I never hand a gun to someone else without the slide locked back, cylinder open, bolt open, forearm racked back...You get the idea. I figure in today's society it wouldn't take much to convince a civil jury that I was at least 50/50 at fault if I handed a loaded gun to someone who accidentally put a hole in someone/something.

Lakedaemonian
July 22, 2011, 12:49 AM
I work at a gunstore. I check a gun everytime I pick it up and everytime I hand someone a gun. Not out of store policy, but from painful lessons learned while being taught by my father, and further gun safety training in the military. SMACK! Check the chamber boy!!

dc.fireman
July 22, 2011, 01:35 AM
I have always been impressed by the professionalism of my LGS - the mag drop/slide rack/eye the chamber routine is something I've seen them do with every customer - myself included every time they handle a firearm. The routine is pretty military in the fact that I guess they've done it so often, that it's precision. The fact that they do it every time, every customer has reinforced the #1 rule with me, so it is now my habit. I suppose that I've taken it for granted. I'll remember to thank them for this subconscious lesson that has been taught to me over & over...

Chief_Cabioch
July 22, 2011, 02:02 AM
begs me to ask?, shop owner or employee ?, if it was an employee, now would be a good time to tlet the Owner know there may be an issue, if on the other hand it was the Owner....I would have to tell him I wasnt at ALL comfortable in his shop after that, unless he can give me a good reason I am making the wrong conclusion.....

tbutera2112
July 22, 2011, 09:08 AM
every time ive dealt with one, they always drop the mag, lock the slide open to check it, then they show me that its empty, drop the slide and hand it to me...i always double check just out of habit, even though i just saw that it was empty....figure if i keep up on it, i wont forget the next time someone hands me one and doesnt check it....hell, when i have my own gun and i unload it for dry fire practice or to hand to somebody, i always double and sometimes i even triple check it...just to be safe....takes a second to check it, if a mistake happens you will spend a lifetime living with that

VP
July 22, 2011, 09:17 AM
I work at a gunstore. I check a gun everytime I pick it up and everytime I hand someone a gun. Not out of store policy, but from painful lessons learned while being taught by my father, and further gun safety training in the military. SMACK! Check the chamber boy!!

haha, that reminds me of when I was in Infantry school a guy pointed his weapon the wrong way before getting roded(is this even a real word?) of the moving target range. One of our Drill Sergeants laid him out!

NMBrian
July 22, 2011, 09:52 AM
begs me to ask?, shop owner or employee ?

Employee, I know the guy pretty well, I will most likely bring it up with him when I go in again next week.

svtruth
July 22, 2011, 12:57 PM
I was looking at a hunting rifle at the LGS once and turned it over, full mag.
I carefully handed it to the guy behind the counter.

Dr_B
July 22, 2011, 01:15 PM
I always safety check any gun I take into my LGS before I let them handle it. They've never pulled the trigger on anything I've handed them. But sometimes they hand me a gun that hasn't had the chamber checked.

Steve CT
July 22, 2011, 03:43 PM
A large local shop here in CT had an ND by the employee at the Range Rental counter who accepted a rental gun back from a shooter and did not chamber check, nor did the Range "Safety" officer prior to allowing the gun off the range

Flopsweat
July 22, 2011, 05:23 PM
It happened to me again last week. While picking up a new purchase at my favorite LGS I was nearly muzzle swept buy a guy next to me who was examining a rifle. I saw it from the corner of my eye and stepped out of the way as it came at me. The store owner (great guy, known him for years) was the one handling my order and clearly saw what happened. I stepped back to the counter, leaned in and very quietly said "Muzzle swept at a gun store again - image that." We shared a look. The guy with the rifle was oblivious. At any other store I would have spoken directly to the person. I guess I didn't want to cause a scene that could be bad for business. I really shouldn't have just let it go. I certainly could have said something and still been polite. Maybe something like "Don't sweep me Bro". :)

buck460XVR
July 23, 2011, 09:52 AM
When I take any gun in to a shop either for trade, service or accessories, I always drop the magazine and pull the slide back in a locked position before they put their hot little hands on it. It's the same when a store presents a gun to you. Before they let you handle it, they drop the magazine and assure that the chamber is clear.
However..if he snagged it out of the box before you had a chance to and did what he did...I probably wouldn't say much. I would just know that the next time to keep it away from him until it's cleared. It's always a good practice.


Same here. I was taught to always "clear" a firearm before presenting it to anyone......even when it's cased. My cased guns(other than levers and revolvers) have the action already open. Responsibility is a two way street. If the gun had gone off and hurt someone, who should get the most blame, the one that pulled the trigger or the one that took a loaded gun to a gun-store?

Threads here on THR on poor safety practices at LGS are almost as numerous as threads about Walmarts. It is not breaking news. Most gun shops I go to are small and crammed full of stuff. They are also generally busy. Getting swept with a muzzle either by an employee putting a gun on the counter for a customer, or by a customer just taking the gun off the counter is nearly unavoidable, even when both are careful and responsible. Still, I feel safer inside than on the road to get there, and don't feel a need to run and tell the owner I was almost killed.

Tape
July 23, 2011, 11:32 AM
seems he had a lot of faith in you and I would bet there's a sign on the entry door saying no loaded gun allowed. I don't condone the way he checks firearms.

Old Shooter
July 24, 2011, 08:15 AM
I probably would have smiled at him and said something along the lines of "Guess there wasn't one in the chamber right?"

All the local gun shops I visit, when I ask to take a look at one in the case, they pull it out and point it skyward and then open the slide making sure the barrel and mag are empty, then hand it to me. They all do this as if it is some sort of a religious rite and I appreciate it. I've had one "unloaded" gun go off in my lifetime and that was enough for me.

Plan2Live
July 24, 2011, 08:50 AM
Not uncommon. I was taking some time off and a few hours north of here for a few days. I decided to go into the gunstore/range where I was staying to try out a Sig 226. I brought it back into the store after exiting the range and the clerk (don't know if employee or owner) just set the Sig down on the counter and we chatted about my experinece. We were talking about the sites, he suggested I sight in on a poster across the store so he could explain a concept to me. At first I started to do as told then I stopped, dropped the mag, opended the slide and checked then I leaned the open chamber in his direction and said "verify". I then proceeded with the lesson. I think he got it.

About a week later I was in a big box sporting goods retailer locally, still shopping for a carry gun, and the clerk wanted me to feel the trigger pull on a certain weapon. He dropped in a few snap caps and handed it back to me, I pulled up on the back wall but had to lower the muzle as another employee walked in front of where I was pointing. He did this about twice while I was cycling through the snap caps.

I was at a gun show yesterday and my son and I kept getting swept with a laser. We never did figure out where it was coming from. Hate that, not to meniton the guy in the corner who kept zapping that taser.

Tape
July 24, 2011, 08:50 AM
I've had one "unloaded" gun go off in my lifetime and that was enough for me.I'm interested if you don't mind telling the story.

KJS
July 24, 2011, 08:55 AM
Well, if gun store guy had shot the wall I think that would have provided a lasting lesson on why to check for a round in the chamber. If you ever wondered why so many guns are lawyer-proofed with magazine disconects, it's for folks like this guy behind the counter.

I've never seen such before, though I'm a mere novice, so give it time and I'll probably see such a thing.

shockwave
July 24, 2011, 09:29 AM
Look, it's very understandable that you wouldn't want to irritate your LGS staff. You're trying to be a good customer, and you're hoping they'll work with you, cut you a good deal because they like you.

Getting tagged as "loudmouth persnickety complaining customer" means that's all out the window.

So you do want to just shrug this off. Let it go.

But what happened here was a violation all The Rules of Safety:

1. Assume the firearm is loaded
2. Point the muzzle in a safe direction
3. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it

That's how an accidental or negligent shooting happens. You can break one rule, maybe two, but when you break all of them, a tragedy can result.

I'll overlook one mistake. But blowing off all the rules? You really can't let that slide. Gotta say something.

Iramo94
July 24, 2011, 04:04 PM
I don't mean to hijack, but I had a similar situation this afternoon at a gun show. I was looking at some of those newfangled tiny pistols, Kel-Tec PF9's in particular, and I asked the person there to let me handle it. She gave me the weapon without looking at it and I immediately ejected the mag and popped the slide open a little. She started yelling at me, not speaking with authority, no, yelling, because she wanted the gun to be sold "new."
After that show, I handed her back the gun, magazine still out, slide all the way back now, and walked to another stall twenty feet away to look at the same gun for $30 less. She'll never get my business again.

rellascout
July 24, 2011, 04:21 PM
There is no law against idiots working in a gun shop....

I would shop somewhere else.

The Lone Haranguer
July 24, 2011, 08:20 PM
(he did at least point the muzzle towards the wall).
At least he followed Rule Two. :rolleyes:

biologicole
July 25, 2011, 08:56 AM
I once went to a garage sale because there were a couple of guns advertised. As I approached the corner where the guns were on display, a kid about 12 years old sat down a Browning sweet 16 and walked away. I picked it up and, seeing the action closed, I pulled the bolt back to check it. Out popped a live round into the middle of the garage. I looked at the gun again and saw that the safety was off, too. Who knows how many people had handled the gun before I got there that day. The whole thing really scared me and re-inforced the basic rules of gun safety.

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