Rent-a-cops w/ guns?


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BamBam-31
January 27, 2003, 05:02 AM
More and more, I'm noticing security officers packing pistols. At restaurants, at movie theatres, at the mall. I used to think that, for liability issues, they weren't issued more than mag lights and harsh words.

Are rent-a-cops allowed to carry loaded weapons nowadays? Don't they need at least some training, a la real cops, before they can carry? Maybe they're off-duty cops. Or maybe it's a sign of the times that security cops are armed with guns. Kind of a reality check for me, like way back when I jokingly poked our high school security guy in the ribs and discovered that he was wearing a vest. :eek:

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Hkmp5sd
January 27, 2003, 06:28 AM
In the State of Florida, a security officer with a Class "G" Statewide Firearm License may carry a firearm if required by the employing agency and it must be carried openly.

Kahr carrier
January 27, 2003, 08:06 AM
In Prk you have to qualify live fire ,and then your permit is for exposed carry only during your employment.:p

Lone Star
January 27, 2003, 08:17 AM
Security officers have sometimes worked armed for generations. Where do you live??

I moonlight as an armed officer in Texas, where I have to have a training course including live fire and re-qualification every two (yep) years.

Many guards do work unarmed. It depends on the contract and what the employer wants to risk liability-wise. I don't want to work today without a gun. Too much meanness in the world. Yet, many employers/clients insist the guard be unarmed. What that tells me is that they'd rather that I be killed than that they might be sued if an officer misuses his gun, which is quite rare.

Before anyone asks, my sidearm is a S&W M66, personally owned, and I carry Hydra-Shok 158 grain JHP's in it where I feel Magnum loads are needed, and lead SWC-HP .38 Specials indoors or in very settled areas. I have the option of an auto, but usually prefer the revolver.

Lone Star

NewShooter78
January 27, 2003, 11:13 AM
Here in La, armed guards must qualify by the state for a permit to carry. It consists of live fire quals as well as class room instruction. You must requal yearly, IIRC. And it is only for open carry. A separate CCW permit is required for concealed carry.

spacemanspiff
January 27, 2003, 12:27 PM
i've noticed it too. mall ninjas are wearing full tactical gear, including but not limited to, vests, double the equipment a police officer has, and all kinds of goodies.
there is also an armed security guard at the crappiest 'showgirl' nightclub. but he wears what looks like a black jumpsuit with nifty hat, club, spray, and a glock. oh and cuffs, radio, and a dozen other pockets stuffed full of junk.

PATH
January 27, 2003, 12:34 PM
It is a sign of the times in which we live. Here in NY guards must recieve handgun training before they can carry. At least that is my understanding of it.

4v50 Gary
January 27, 2003, 12:40 PM
Didja think the guy ridding shotgun on the Wells Fargo Stagecoach was a Deputy Sheriff or Deputy Marshal? He was a Wells Fargo employee. Private security has been around for a long time and during our Sibil War, Alan Pinkerton provided the intelligence officers for Abe Lincoln (did a pretty sorry job of it too and always over estimated or inflated the Confederate #s).

George Hill
January 27, 2003, 12:53 PM
I'm only concerned about the level of profesionalism in the security guard.
Typically security guards hire for the least amount of money possible. This means they mostly hire the dregs. Mall Ninjas or worse. I say typically because sometimes... not very often... they do hire good people who know what they are about. People that "Know the face of their Fathers".

TarpleyG
January 27, 2003, 01:22 PM
Not necessarily. This may be true for the $7/hr unarmed guard walking around the mall but for the armed guards with a reputable company I have only seen professionalism displayed. We have armed guards at my office and they are top notch as far as security guards go.

GT

BamBam-31
January 27, 2003, 01:52 PM
I'm aware that security can carry, but I was under the impression that they were the exception rather than the rule. Banks, jewelry shops, etc. Lots of hoops to jump through, so only the more high risk businesses hire them.

It's just that I'm noticing them EVERYWHERE. Supermarket, malls, Mom-and-Pop restaurants. Not that they shouldn't be allowed to carry--nowadays, I'd hate to wear a uniform unarmed. I just thought maybe local carry laws eased up recently for security (I'm in LA, BTW).

Like George, I'm concerned about professionalism. One security guard at a local supermarket comes to mind--completely decked out in SWAT gear, and with an attitude to match. That can't be a good thing, eh?

spacemanspiff
January 27, 2003, 02:05 PM
but then the attitude problem is far greater than the fact that they are carrying while on the job. case in point, there was a bar my buddies and i went to one night and a 'waitress' wanted to go grab some breakfast at dennys or something, so were waiting in the parking lot after the bar closed and the bouncers demanded we leave, said we were trespassing and one draws a glock, didnt point it at us, but had it out, definitely brandishing, all because he wanted to puff up his ego and thump his chest like the bigboys do.

Joe Demko
January 27, 2003, 02:11 PM
Been my experience that bar fights and incidents with bar bouncers inevitably happen at bars.

MitchSchaft
January 27, 2003, 02:15 PM
In this state all you need is your carry permit.

larry_minn
January 27, 2003, 02:19 PM
When I worked private security my firearms training took 5 minutes in the office. The owner realized I had more training then his folks when I turned down the worn out/out of time Mod 10. If the job did not REQUIRE I have a gun visible I carred under the jacket. Most everyone thought I was unarmed. :)
. spacemanspiff Odds are they didn't understand what was going on and maybe thought you were waiting for the person who was carrying the nights receipts. Was fun when I would be told to escort the money lady "all 110lbs of her" who did NOT want anyone armed with her after a large event. So we have $3000+ in cash and the two of us are going to walk over to main building about 200yds at 2am in a park like area. No thanks.

BerettaNut92
January 27, 2003, 03:26 PM
The private guys here in CA are unarmed, that I have seen.

Armored car carriers are, of course, armed, to protect property.

Too bad the general populace CANNOT be armed, to protect life.

10-Ring
January 27, 2003, 03:34 PM
I have seen some guards armed, depending on the type of security they have been hired for...ie banks, jewelry stores. They are probably trained, coz I doubt I'd trust arming some bubba off the streets w/ a gun & a badge w/o training :scrutiny:

BerettaNut92
January 27, 2003, 03:39 PM
One of the top shooters at our IDPA club is a Brinks driver...gotta respect his dedication to staying sharp. Nice guy, too.

Matthew Courtney
January 27, 2003, 06:46 PM
I think all adults belong in one of two categories: The armed, and those who live in a secured environment, either incarcerated or institutionalized.

twoblink
January 27, 2003, 11:53 PM
Because nobody but the police can own guns here; the police provide (Armored $$$$ transport) as a free service. The problem with that is, you don't know when the pickup is going to be...

I have an internet cafe below my house, during pickup, there are 4 cops packed into a regular squad car. All are in class 3 armour. The two in the rear have M16's (or variants of) and the two in front, carry only Smith 10's as pistols. The two in front go in and make the pickup, while the two in the back, watch the front..

Now, you can opt for reliable private pickup... Which is done in an armoured vehicle. I saw this the other day.. There are only two people, (both unarmed) but wearing class 3 vests.. The front one has the sack, the rear one has a hex-baton.

For those who aren't familiar with it; a Hex-Baton is the same size (roughly) as a small club, about 22". It is hex-shaped (6 sides) and made of solid steel. It's about 2.5" thick. The weight of it is about 15lbs I'd venture to guess. They say if you get hit with one, you won't get back up. I'll take their word for it. But it seems rather inferior to a gun; and so I don't know how safe the money is being guarded solely by a hex-baton. The front man has nothing, both hands on the money, no guns, no visible weapons.

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