Plain jane or Hot to Go HD - maybe carry, auto?


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blindjim
July 23, 2011, 10:56 AM
I’m desiring a pistol now and am seeking ideas and options for a new automatic that runs 45 ACP.

Again, it must have a option for mounting a light, likely on a pick rail below the pipe/slide.

All but one of my previous pistol were revolvers. Ruger, SW & Colt. Mostly in 357 cal. I used the 1911 45 in the service for years though.

If you want to go with an automatic. And want 45 cal as the slug. And you might carry or might not carry at a later date. And are not a collector… investor… just an ordinary Joe who feels the need for occasionally added security at home or traveling, would the recommendations here be it’s best to go with a plain old journeyman gun… or drop a dime on something special?

Something ordinary but functional. Plain but reliable. Nothing flashy, but unquestionably accurate & simple.

I’m torn between a few choices presently. A Sig 1911 new… $900+, and a couple others… Colt Carry (Officer) … Rock Island Arm 1911… or SW M&P, or Sig P220.

Or????

Truth is I’ve no idea, other than I’d like an auto. I need a tact rail mounted light. I want 45 cal.

And I’d not want to drop over $500 or not much over it.

That’s what I know… please, tell me what I don’t know?

I’m hating like all get out to drop a ton here. I likely won’t buy another gun down the road either. Spending A Grand on a pistol, unless it makes breakfast in the morning, and does the dishes is going to hurt. A good bit.

I’m seeing this buy as a need, not an investment. Flashy is fine and all. Noteable is too. But I’ll likely not be trotting out my guns for folks to see just for conversation starters.

Fact is, I think guns are conversation stoppers.

Your thoughts please?

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beeenbag
July 23, 2011, 11:04 AM
Glock 21 baby!

All business, no flash, 13+1 rounds of 45 acp on tap. Gen 3 and 4 comes with the rail and plenty of room on it. If your gonna carry some, get the glock 30, 10+1 rounds of 45 acp on tap with shorter grip and barrel for carry and you can use the 13 round mags in them for home defense. Also has rail.

Both can be had for around $550 new and under $500 used.

Quoheleth
July 23, 2011, 11:11 AM
If you want a light, you'll need a gun that has rails on it. That narrows down the list a little.

Rock Islands are out - they are rail-less.

1911s are available with rails - CDNN investments has the Taurus with a rail for $420. Download their catalog - they actually have several other options in the railed .45 pistol as well.

The Ruger 345 http://www.ruger.com/products/p345/index.html comes to mind as a rugged, reliable and affordable .45 platform. Glocks and Springfield XDs can be found for that price - if not NIB, they are available used.

In uber-budget line, HiPoint makes a butt-ugly but utterly reliable .45 for under $200.

Go to a gunshop and ask to handle and feel what is available. You have a few narrowing specifics, but you still have lots of choices available. Good luck & happy shopping!

Q

dogtown tom
July 23, 2011, 12:00 PM
Quoheleth:....Rock Islands are out - they are rail-less....
Not true, transferred a railed RIA 1911 last night:http://centerfiresystems.com/AC-RI1911-2011-NS.aspx

JTQ
July 23, 2011, 12:15 PM
I agree with the Ruger P345. It has a rail, is light in weight, and relatively slim.

S&W M&P is another option I'd consider.

Effigy
July 23, 2011, 01:43 PM
If you don't want to spend more than $500 or so, you'd probably want to go with something like a Glock 21, S&W M&P45, or XDm 45. The SIGs are out of that price range unless you buy used, which might be a good option if you can find the model you want. Personally I wouldn't want to buy a 1911 in that price range, unless it was a decent used gun; seems like you need to go a little higher end to get a reliable 1911.

Also keep in mind that a weapon light is typically going to cost in the $80-$300 range depending on what you have in mind.

Beat Trash
July 23, 2011, 04:24 PM
I would strongly suggest one of the S&W M&P's. I really like the mid size gun. A full size frame with a slightly shortened slide.

Just One Shot
July 23, 2011, 04:55 PM
+1 on the M&Ps, great gun for a little money. I have one beside me in .40 S&W that I added night sights a CT laser and an Apex Tactical hardened sear and striker block kit. This made the trigger smooth as silk and crisper than just about anything else I've ever shot, including all the 1911's that I've owned.

Telekinesis
July 23, 2011, 05:04 PM
I'd go with an XD or XDm 45. 13+1 capacity, supposedly has a grip angle similar to that of a 1911 (I don't have a 1911 so I'm just repeating what I've read elsewhere) has a rail and is reliable. It is decently concealable, but its still a double stack .45.

I would also recommend a Sig P220, but to stay in your price range, you'd need to buy used. It is possible to find good deals and good guns out there. I found a Sig 228 nearly unfired for $500 a few years ago.

Quoheleth
July 23, 2011, 05:19 PM
Dogtown Tom - I stand corrected. Thank you.

To be clear - that was oversignt/ignorance, not a bash @ RIAs. I have owned 3 Rock Islands - including the current Tactical - and find them affordable and reliable. If you want a 1911 platform, I recommend highly.

Q

gearhead
July 23, 2011, 06:34 PM
Everyone has made good suggestions. Here are a couple of other pistols to look at, based on my experience: Try an FNP-45. Rail, ambi controls, and it's one of the nicest-shooting .45ACP pistols out there. If that's out of your budget, take a look at the Taurus 24/7 models. Good striker-fired poly pistols for a relatively low price.

Beached Yankee
July 23, 2011, 06:48 PM
if the sunburn state is florida or anywhere near the coast rugers sr1911 is all stainless and can be found for 625.00 i also agree with the s&w m&p for a good weather proof 45

blindjim
July 23, 2011, 06:56 PM
yep... the Sunbrun State is surrounded by coastline. Nice idea. Stainless. My last Secuirty Six was stainless.


FNP? Thanks. Never heard of them but have now and I'm sure it is a good option. I appreciate it.



Thanks for the input so far

I believe we go with what we know, or have been comfortable with in our history (s). For me in autos, it was 1911.

A friend handed me a Comando or Officer 45 carry gun, and it fit like a glove… but I found its barrel length too short to my liking. Then, however, I could see far far better. And I chose revolvers instead from that day on.

I appreciate all the input here on various options so far…. Eg., Glock. Don’t know why, but I’m not a fan of Glock. Guess maybe I should become one though. I will take a peek at the 21 & 30 so thanks for that.

The SW M&P do look pretty nice. I’d bet too the feel is very good for me.

Love the Ruger notion of P345 too. many sincere thanks.

An obvious concern I must mention now is this as it has gone unsaid… With a light attached… and on… inside of 25-30 ft. likely inside of 20ft. !

Whatever gun brand or model, needs to be able to place inside a spot lit area, relative to the spots lowered position. I know some conpensation is required there. No problem. And it must be a spot, NOT A DOT, I’m aiming for A Streamlight TL x2. 200 lumens.

My current Leader light from Cheaper Than Dirt resting atop my 930 SPX is 200 Lu too…. and all I’ll need… daytime or night… pretty much.

Under 15 ft. in the daytime, I’d suspect no light is needed, it’s just nice to have. Doubtless were I to have to display in close quarters there’d be no finger on the light first.

So far from memory, back in 2000, only the full sized Desert Eagle auto was a truly big handful of gun for me… but I am sure I could put metal downrange with one hand reasonably well.

So if any gun idea here is a worry for accuracy under 35 ft just don’t post it please.

I’m overcoming a lot of prejudices here just opting for an automatic IMO. As I’ve never thought them better than six shooters. Except for carry and capacity.

Lastly, why the notes on mega round clips? Is that important?

Are autos still inaccurate as opposed to revolvers?

I must not be getting something here…. I’m figuring an instance for use likely will be under 25ft. Likely 10ft or less. Explain to me why then do I need 13 or 17 shots/rounds?

Is the custom in today’s society such that the victor is required to put their initials into the deceased with the other 10 or 14 rounds or more, they’ll have left over??

I guess I could run across a Martian, or a big ‘gator or a bear, maybe even an ill tempered armadillo that’s going through a divorce, and have to use the whole clip. But thereafter, I could just use my toe to do my initials on the ground next to it/them.

Even 30 rounds probably isn’t going to be sufficient to nail a galloping Armadillo though. Gosh! Can they move. Especially if they think they are being served a subpoena.

So the Glocks, Rocks, SW, Rugers, and Springers all are dead on accurate right out of the box?

They’ll all take 185 SJHP 45 ACP.. or just hard ball ammo?

I’m gonna tend to like a heavier gun too for less recoil. But I am a big fan of destroying as much tissue as can be done with each round fired. Hence the 45 ACP or hollow point 45 rd. for avoiding over penetration…. If there is such a thing these days.

Every suggestion is welcome, and sincerely well received. Thanks much

blindjim
July 23, 2011, 06:59 PM
PS.

for a very special... really accurate and well, purdy gun, I'd go $650, but it would have to be real special. Grip. Action. Accuracy. Esthetic.

Telekinesis
July 23, 2011, 07:11 PM
As far as accuracy goes, I've seen some VERY accurate .357 mag revolvers and I don't think you can completely replicate that with a semi auto. That said, I have seen some shooters consistently ring a 12" gong at 100 yards with a semi auto pistol. I would say that at the ranges we're talking about here, all of the modern combat pistols are going to be acceptably accurate. They will all be able to feed JHPs too. If you find one that won't, its an exception rather than the rule.

As far as ammo capacity, its just added assurance. Say there are multiple people trying to break into your house (or insert legitimate SD scenario here), or you miss a few rounds while you and the assailant are both moving (don't expect everyone to stand still while being shot at) or what if one round doesn't stop the threat? I know, a .45 to the pinky will send the guy flying 20' across the room....but what if the shooting takes place in real life? :neener:

All joking aside, I read of an incident a few years ago where some guy attacking a police officer took 7 (!) rounds of .45 JHP to the chest and STILL managed to continue fighting! If you ask me, I'll take all the extra ammo I can get.

blindjim
July 23, 2011, 11:45 PM
Telekinesis

Sorry… I couldn’t resist. Love six shooters and had a few 357s over the years. Shot well with them back then… but today ain’t back then.

I dig the idea, that the faster I can put mo metal into the air the better for me. I’m realistic about it all too. My only shot today will be at center mass. I’m no longer capable of picking out a button, sinus cavity, dimple, or ear hole anymore.



"....I have seen some shooters consistently ring a 12" gong at 100 yards with a semi auto pistol. I would say that at the ranges we're talking about here, all of the modern combat pistols are going to be acceptably accurate. They will all be able to feed JHPs too. If you find one that won't, its an exception rather than the rule."



Very good to know. I was coming to that notion slowly, but it’s good to see it in print from a real owner though. Thanks.

I’ll see what is what a bit more tomorrow as I check out another shop I’ve been wanting to visit He has a Sig 1911, a Colt carry, and some other’s. No Rugers though. There’s at least the opportunity to see how some fit too. That’ll help.

I’m also liking the idea of a midsized weapon lately. Due to the quite probable short range events, and the ability to conceal it better than a full size, or at least I’d think so.

blindjim
July 24, 2011, 06:31 PM
I handled a few guns today. In the end, I liked these two the best, in terms of how they fit… or weld to my hand.

The Ruger, P 345… single stack 8 rd 45 cal. w/Thumb safety $535 + tax, NIB.

Easily, the P 345 is the most secure grip allowing my forefinger and thumb to meet and all of my fingers to rest onto the grip handle. Me and my hand were very happy and secure as it sat in my grip.


Beretta PX4 Storm F model (?) 40 cal. $500 + tax

The Storm is almost as secure a feeling as the 345 but not quite, with my finger tip & Thumb but a bit away from each other up top, and all of them do rest well onto the grip handle in a non crowded way.

So my grip of the 345 is by far and away the most secure of all the ones I tried. No Question!!!!

I tried/held and racked, Springfield XD, SW M&P, Sig 1911, Colt Commander, a Walther PK was nice and took second place in the “how’ do they fit” test.

But the trigger pull, break, and the feel and process of the Action – slide – racking, of the Beretta? Easily IMHO way ahead of just about all I managed to dry test.

The Beretta also had a hammer vs a pin. Not sure which is what there. Both seem to be smooth enough.

I was easily able to pull the PX 4 hammer with my thumb.

Two different dealers.

One having the Ruger, the other having the Beretta, sure didn’t care for the idea of getting the same item in a different caliber though. The Beretta guy saying none in 45 were available via his distributor! Indicating no chance of getting a Storm in 45 ACP.

The Storm has my attention overall. It’s smooth action, build, feel, capacity, and I held it with the medium backstrap, so the small might just be the deal for me… really impressed me.

BUT… IT’S A 40, NOT A 45.

Would someone please convince me or enlighten me some more, on the vaules of a 40 cal vs. a 45 cal for limited carrys, and predominately home defense?

Just how big a deal is this? Or is it even a concern?

The numbers on each say a person is good to go with either round, and it’s looking to me more and more like merely a matter of preference.

The Storm can be had for $540 OTD. The Ruger is about $570 OTD, and has the safety.

Both are NIB.

I think the 345 might have a skosh more useable pick rail under it too, than the Storm.

Any thing I should as well think about before trotting back over to the Beretta dealer and getting the 40 cal Storm?

Or sticking with the better feeling 345 and eating the diff for more ergonomics and my choice in caliber?

Or look around for the same things online?

Where?

I’ve never done a gun online… and I hear you aren’t coming out any better after transfer fees, shipping, etc.,

What to do for these two, P 345 or PX4 Storm 40 cal?

JTQ
July 24, 2011, 07:20 PM
You may want to try Gallery of Guns. It may not be the best price, but you can compare to what you've already seen.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/

Using the Gun Genie, the Ruger P345 is about $100 less expensive than the Beretta PX4 in .45, at least in my Zip Code. Both models are available.

Lonestar49
July 24, 2011, 07:20 PM
...

A pic is worth a thousand words and just over 1800 flawless rounds..


Sig P220R/45 - Center

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture436.jpg

Center -

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc306/Lonestar49/Picture280.jpg


That or the shorter slide/barrel with/same grip/mag load P220R/45 Carry

Luck,


Ls

blindjim
July 24, 2011, 08:32 PM
JTQ

Thanks much.

What’s a Gun Genie?

Apparently, I’m finding those higher priced than they should be joints while I’m trying to achieve this solution. Seems no matter where I go, it’ll be the highest priced spot around, or nearly..

Now each place too, so far, has been both a gun & accessory shop, PLUS a gun range.

Wonder if that matters?



LS

Thanks … grabbed one of those today too. Wasn’t terribly trilled with it’s feel.


I think I’ll go back over to the closest range, rent the 345 and a couple others and maybe a 40 too, and see how it feels when they bark.

And very likely, I’m going to try to find a PX4 Storm F in 45 ACP….

I’m thinking $535 & up, for the Beretta is high.. and it’s sincerely high for the P 345. remarks on YOUTUBE are saying under $400 for a P-345!!

The Beretta MSRP for the Storm full size in 45 is $650… at their website.

I’ll keep looking if that’s the tag I gotta pay.

BTW… how is the support with Beretta or Ruger?

JTQ
July 24, 2011, 09:08 PM
Gun Genie is at Gallery of Guns.

Select the manufacturer, model, caliber, put your Zip Code in, etc., you get the idea.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/default.aspx

savit260
July 24, 2011, 09:27 PM
PS.

for a very special... really accurate and well, purdy gun, I'd go $650, but it would have to be real special. Grip. Action. Accuracy. Esthetic.

At $650 you're still in the Plain Jane, garden variety price bracket for .45's... even on the used market.

Some great guns in that price range though.. but nothing that I'd call real special.

Would someone please convince me or enlighten me some more, on the vaules of a 40 cal vs. a 45 cal for limited carrys, and predominately home defense?

The biggest virtue of the .40 S&W cartridge is that it's the largest calliber that will fit in a 9mm size platform. You'll notice the .45 acp guns run a bit larger than most 9mm or 40's.

460Kodiak
July 25, 2011, 12:34 AM
$500? Beretta PX4 in .45. Stoeger Cougar in .45 if you want all metal and lower price. For more, if you want a non 1911, then go after a HK45. $900+ though, so that's a bit much. FNP 45's are nice too, but they are freakin big.

blindjim
July 25, 2011, 02:02 AM
Thanks folks.

Especially for the note on the Beretta Cougar. I actually thought about that too.

Well, I'll call Beretta and Ruger service and see how they act with a prospective customer. That is always fun and exciting. Or time well wasted.

I believe for a change I'll take a new set of ideas to supplant some older ones. I'm starting to see this "PX4 V 345" or, 'either - or' as a win win situation.

Go 40... or Go 45. Both will surely do the job.

Givven that, how it feels in my hand, it's price, and how it moves should dictate which one to get. Either case isn't then, a "lesser of the two evils", but more a walnut vs pecans affair.

If I can get a Beretta PX4 F in 45 cal... that's the one I'll do. If not, the choice is harder, but very good no matter the selection. Price then will likely decide it for me.

Somehow, in my mind or hand or both, the PX4 just feels more like a quailty piece than does the P 345 despite the better fit of the 345 within my digits.


soooo.... if anyone knows of a bona fide resource for cheap PX4 F's in 45 cal. I'd sure like to know it too.

blindjim
July 25, 2011, 12:19 PM
is it true... the exact same model weapon, outfitted identically as one other yet both in different calibers, can/does cost a lot more money??

The pricing desparity I'm seeing in the PX4 Storm F in 45 vs 40 is over a hundred dollars... or nearly... around my area.

So in fact, comparing the P-345 to the PX 4 F in 40 cal was deceptive. Two diff cals. in the same slug type, there arises a sizable diff!

Too bad. I really liked that Beretta Storm full sized goobersmoocher.

Oil well. We'll see what can be done with the P345 now.... and a light for it.

Thanks severely to each and every poster here. I'd not have known about the Ruiger autos had I not asked for help to those with mo' speariance than myself.

Now for a light!

David E
July 25, 2011, 12:41 PM
If the OP is a tried and true revolver shooter and wants a simple .45 auto, consider the Sig 250. Available in a myriad of sizes and capacities, the DAO pull should quickly be appreciated by any revolver fan.

Otherwise, staying with "simple," it's the M&P, XD or XDM, or the Glock 21 or 21 SF

A 1911 kept for serious purposes should be carried cocked and locked, which isn't for casual or occasional shooters.

Any gun that requires an action OTHER THAN TAKING THE FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER to make if safe after a few shots, but before the gun is empty, also requires an attentive shooter.

triplebike
July 25, 2011, 10:10 PM
Stoeger Cougar 8045.

Fantastic buy at $419 NIB. Pretty much an "all metal" version of the PX4. You will not find a better handgun for anywhere near the price.

blindjim
July 26, 2011, 11:07 AM
David E

Good thoughts. Handled some of those you point to here. Didn’t care much for how they felt.

I have decided to go ahead and rent a few autos,although I can’t rent the PX4 Storm at all. So I’ll go on intuition there understanding the twisting of the barrel keeps it centered, and that action removes immediately some of the transferred energy from the slides return and recoil… a touch.

It’s the trigger mostly on the Storm that attracts me. Smooth and easy in DA, and perhaps almost too easy in SA. The feel in the hand however, is not as close to the tight grip I can put onto a P345, as both my thumb and middle finger touch readily.

They do not on the Storm. But they don’t miss by more than a quarter inch as the Storm is a double stack mag. If the 45 ver of the Storm is any larger it might prove to take more getting used to and more concentration initially…. But the overall take on those two hand guns is they are definitely worth their selling price IMHO.

The Beretta being about $100 or so more for the same caliber. In a 40 cal Beretta, the Ruger in 45 cal and Beretta are about the same price.

In any case, same cals or different, I don’t feel at this stage that one is really comparing apples to apples with these two guns.

I feel strongly about two things in fire arms…. The feel of the weapon ergonomically, and thereafter, it’s build and action.

If the former is a stretch or distressing at all, move on. There’s tension enough in operating a weapon in dire straights The latter is self explanatory as stable, quick, repetitive and sure all come from quality engineering.

I can adjust, adapt, and adopt borderline ergonomics if I must. I did so in the military… and on occasion thereafter. I can be more selective now, as can we all… to a point..

The swing vote for me always comes down to my confidence level in the item (s) on hand… no pun intended… and it’s cost.

The online press by owners and reviewers alike, is overwhelmingly supportive of the Storm in fit finish capacity, and accuracy. There’s much press about its reduced recoil too. Consequently I’ve got this piece welded into my brain as the one to get now and hang the added $100 cost, over the Ruger P 345.

The issue I face is my history with Ruger six shooters residing in a sweet spot in my memory…. And now… the ball game is different… the Ruger has so great a feel, and point, it’s tuff to get past. But I’m gonna shoot that gun and see for myself..

The Storm I gotta take on faith as I’ve not owned one nor used one.

Thanks for the reminders too.



triplebike
“Stroeger Cougar 8045”

Outstanding suggestion, just read a user review moments ago.

If there’s one thing I lose track of, or get caught up in, is the battle between my ego and practicality. No matter the purchase.

I am finding out recently however many many makers produce very good gear! They just aren’t as popular, hip, slick or cool… and even in guns & ammo… there is the ‘flavor of the month’ crowd that generates some pub, and sales of goods too. They’ll rave on about a thing and then sell it a few months later on so they can go try some other model.

I’m gonna marry whatever I buy now… just as I have my 930 SPX.. albeit, I’ll outfit it according to my needs and desires real soon.

I’m going to check out CZ too. Although having seen one I’m not so sure it’ll be a good fit for me…. But we’ll see.

Your Stroger idea is probably the very best way for me to proceed, provided I can find a dealer around the Bay Area..

I did manage to find a light for either the Ruger P 345 OR Storm. 190 lumen Highpoint at amazon.. sold by Lonestar. .

Thanks.

Mike1234567
July 26, 2011, 12:06 PM
I searched for those with the features I wanted and excellent reliability. The top choices (for me) were Glock, M&P, and XDM. After fondling all three I opted for the M&P for the grip size/shape/angle. I like the XDM also but hated the Glock despite its excellent reliability record.

blindjim
July 26, 2011, 04:03 PM
Good for you.

yes, feel is way important. The M&P was a tad off for me... and I did try it with the small back bone installed.

Actaully, the XDM or XD (big one) fit better than the SW MP. But I wasn't fond of the little niche grip safety my web had to engage. Felt like another button I had to push to use it, and you do, it just felt extraordinary, and I felt it odd within my grasp.

Guess that's why so many fliks, make so many guns! Because there's so many hands! Needs. Egos. Wallets. and gee... all them bullets need somewhere to go too!

now if only the Storm came in a 45 cal. single stack configuration.

blindjim
July 26, 2011, 11:27 PM
Mike1234567

Glad you found your fit. I feel it's a very key item.

I had no idea what was what, hence this thread. I've found out since some great ideas such as the mention of the SW M&P, KD, KDM, CZ, FNP,., Stroger Cougar... replica of the Beretta to the current Storm now in it's second itteration. (ver ii).... and the SD ver of the Storm is begging me to buy it... but I simply can not justify it's cost. A Grand?! Nope.

I did order a light just now for either the 345 or PX4. it will fit either. $65 inclu’d shipping. 190 lumen.

All of this has been kind of fun and taken my mind off the ‘why am I buying these guns in the first place?’ situation. I’m beginning to look forward to spending some time on the range now/again.

Albeit, now I will be cheating as I’ll have to use a light all the time just about… regardless which gun I use, Mossberg SPX, PX 4 in 45, or P 345.

If it turns out it’s a PX4 & SPX at least both now will have the same capacity of 10 rounds, (3 in mag, maybe 12 in the short shells.) given the mods I’ve made on the SPX with Choate, and Nordic Arms and I can’t overlook O.F. Mossberg sending along a new PG stock made by Choate. Great support those Mossberg folks. Kudos to Norah and David at O.F. M customer service. Ryan at Nordic and Mr. Choate.

In any case this might wind up being a lot of fun… instead of the nightmare it originally was just over a month or so ago..

I’ll post my choice shortly. It might surprise me too! it likely won’t be the Sig 1911… or the Super Duty Storm either… which is a real downer for me as I liked the feel of both of them.

Then all I’ll need to do is make a decision on which 45 shells, and get a new bag to carry ‘em both in for them range trips!

Oh yeah… and a nice gun cleaning kit.

We’ll see.

Strahley
July 27, 2011, 08:48 PM
Glock 21 or 30 (perhaps the SF models if those fit you better) fits all of your needs

blindjim
July 28, 2011, 12:05 PM
Hi all,

I decided late yesterday afternoon which way I’d go and chose Ruger P345 in Stainless. 8 + 1, single stack mags, 45 ACP, DA/SA. So now I await delivery. Pick rail which will have a 190 Hilight pistol light w/quick release, affixed to it. ON/MON/strobe. 1 CR 123a battery included.

Price played a fairly large part of my buying equation… although not entirely. I could have bought whatever, upwards of $2K. But I simply could not honestly justify such cost for such a condition. Home defense only? What amount of money is suitable for such a resolution? $200? $500? More? New seemed a good idea. The Ruger Support was friendly and accommodating. It has a history of stable, dependable and supportive operation. This model too has some features which I like a lot. Although I’m ambiguous on the non operational without a mag bizness.

BTW… Who puts one bullet into an automatic pistol and removes the mag to shoot? For me it was hearing the click and no bang before I’d drop a mag from a pistol… never before. Actually I see it as a plus now that I think about it.

I wanted the Beretta Storm in 45… actually I wanted the Sig 1911 in 45. AND then the Storm SD in 45… then the FNP Tactical in 45.

Again, I could not rationalize spending almost $700 to $1100 for a gun I’d shoot almost not at all. My guns will see more cleaning time than range time I’d bet.

I’m still young enough to make some more mistakes later… so perhaps another pistol will sneak in here or I’ll sell this one and trade up next year.

The P 345 will serve as a JIC HD gun to support my 930 SPX. Or vice versa. Who knows? I feel OK with either one I grab late some night… or whenever.

I chose the Stainless steel slide model.

For now, I’m anxious… and hopefully soon to be quite happy with my choices thus far, and in no small part due to the excellent advice I have received here on The High Road Forums.

RE Glock 21 30
Thanks. I recalled those two from an earlier post I’d bet they do suit my needs, and I briefly looked at those pistols in person recently.

Glock in my hand simply gets a ho hum out of me.

Anywho… now all I need are a carry bag or two, eye and ear protection … (eye protection? lol) some Mickey mouse ears maybe like we used on the Aircraft carriers, a nice cleaning kit and some ammo & range time.

Range time… this should be a real trip… me… dark sunglasses worn inside… white cane… and guns. Yep. Should be fun for the whole family.

Briefly. Lol

Huge thanks!!!

David E
July 28, 2011, 03:02 PM
A gun you'll shoot "almost not at all?"

Do you think your skills will magically materialize in the middle of a life and death situation lasting only seconds?

You would've been better off just buying pepper spray.

lucky-gunner
July 28, 2011, 03:30 PM
For that price I would go with a Glock, S&W, XD or FN. The only way your going to tell which one you like the best is to shoot them though.

Since you are coming from revolvers the 1911 platform would be my choice.

I would look for a used model of any of the above. Given your budget you would get the most out of a used gun.

blindjim
July 29, 2011, 12:59 PM
lucky-gunner

Sorry, Glocks did not make my cut. I’m sure they are a fine solution. XDm and M&P as well were not a Goldilocks situation. Albeit the SW was not terribly far off.

The P345 was/is a Goldilocks feel.

1911s were my starting point. Only carry or Officer models fit tightly however… and I felt a full size or closer to a full size a better path.

At $490 done & done for NIB, I felt pretty OK with doing the Ruger. I later opted for the Stainless Steel slide up top for $30 more.



David E
"a gun you'll shoot "almost not at all?"

…at somebody? With any luck at all,nope!

I do not feel guns should be anyone’s first response plan of action. They should be the last plan for action instead.

Do you think your skills will magically materialize in the middle of a life and death situation lasting only seconds?

Magically?

No. they will from experience and training, which I have loads of but am somewhat removed from it by time… see below please. This will change now.


You would've been better off just buying pepper spray.
Alrighty then! Thanks for the considered opinion.

Where my life may be put in jeopardy or actually is on the line, I’ll make my own picks of what I’ll use to try to overcome the prevailing winds. … you can mist the air with peppers in your own house though. From your account, it seems as a worthwhile deterrent.

But in this case, let's do remember, it’s my party so I’m picking both the playground and the playthings.

However, I do apologize for not choosing my words more carefully. I’m hoping never to “HAVE” to be FORCED to shoot the guns. Period.

Rather, to shoot when I WANT to shoot. Not because I HAVE to, or am being forced to shoot.

This isn’t my first rodeo with guns. It has just been a while, that’s all.

But yeah, I do think my former training and nearly ten years of military watch & patrol duties will come right back to me, shortly after a bit of range time and a few in house drills now and then.

They seem to be returning already to some degree.

For me this is like going out to buy a new car after not having driven for 10, 15 or 20 years. I once went a year and change without driving a car. Got right in and in minutes was on my way!

Went 10 years or longer from riding a motorcycle. Got on and in just a few blocks was right back comfortably ‘in the saddle’ again.

Went nearly 20 years in between riding horses. Uh, yeah…. Same scenario. Moments later and all was well again.

Some things… we do with great frequency. Stop. Then much later return to them, aren’t wiped from our memory. Shortly upon our reentry to the vehicle, we’re back on track. Naturally, proficiency comes with and increases from repetition.

I might take a refresher course too, soon enough, or not. Not unless it’s one on one. No group courses.

My primary concern now is quick and steady target acquisition. Predominately my 930 SPX 12 ga. Shotgun will be the preferred weapon. it's mag has been extended so it's capacity for 3 inch '0' shot has too.

The P 345 will be the choice if I’m in another part of the house than usual, or getting the SPX is more a trip than is getting the 345.

I'm OK with either.

Secondarily, a concern rests with the P345, is it’s trigger pull on the first shot. It’s long. Not bad, but long. Jerking or pushing is gonna send me off my spot, so I’ll have to iron that out. Maybe some smithing is going to be involved.

The grip, and breathing and stance will reappear quickly. They always have before upon returning to firearm use..

for a better perspective on what I face now, next time you are faced with some immediate threat… close one eye shut, and the other one almost entirely, then proceed…. that’s what I’m faced with. Some folks might have some real issues keeping their cool under those conditions…. Not being able to vividly realize the suspect.

I’m definitely not trying to impress anyone here, nor am I trying to drill a whole clip into the space of a shirt button, I’m not taking on drug lords or trained soldiers. I’m not looking to become a mercenary either. I don’t live in a really bad neighborhood. I feel my exp in recent weeks is a re-education or re-assessment of our common social dynamic, and our law enforcement associations, and our own local political infrastructure. Each of which is either decaying, hamstrung, or apathetic and lethargic in their actions and responses.

Of late, 12 – 15 min has been the usual response time from the Deputies.

That alone prompted me to regain some firepower. Nothing else… well OK… I hate waiting too.

There’s been a rash of idiots mostly young people and rock stars looking for an easy mark around here lately. Obviously they figured I was one. …and I was, for a while. But no longer.

Everytime I’ve had a gun on or at my nose, forehead, or temple, or ribs, and I’ve had one in each place and a couple more in other spots, so far in my lifetime. I’ve lived to tell the tale. A couple times I had a pistol nearby but never reached for it. Some were held by pros, other’s by fools.

Guns v guns isn’t always the best tact for overcoming some situations. Sometimes brains can overcome a gunman. Sometimes it’s simpler than that.

Luck AND one’s experiences play significant parts in how we travel thru life, and for how long. I’m not sure now, were I to have a gun on me and one pointed at my head that I would pull my gun and try to get off a shot before my assailant could squeeze off one first.. in fact I would not make such an attempt..

Rather, I’d try to manage, temper, or reverse the situation. Then, control the weapon pointed at me. Depending on it’s proximity of course. Probably try and redirect it, Control it and acquire it.

Or sufficiently misdirect it so I can use my own…. It’s never a simple situation until the situation is over…. And we must not over simplify any situation.

Sometimes it’s way simple. Just comply. Doing just that kept me breathing at least 3 or 4 other times in my life.

It was taking control by Taking action which resolved other’s for me... and no shots were fired then.

If 3 or 4 230 grain slugs won’t stop a bad guy I’ll be shocked, and he’ll get 4 more before I drop the mag and send hone ; another one… and all of that will happen if he/she/them don’t follow my orders first…. Provided the 345 finds my hand before the shotgun does, of course.

Being forced to shoot to kill is the VERY LAST THING ANYONE EVER WANTS TO DO…. Or it should be that way.
.0
It ain’t like the movies. You dot someone’s center of mass or upper body/thorax with 2, 3 or more holes in 45 cal ACP. They’ll fall down right there. Likely die in seconds if not immediately, and then they’ll stay right there… for hours. For me, 2 usually does it.

You’ll be in shock, and near deaf. The ringing in your ears will provide for a back drop to your own up front and personal extra real experience. Blood will keep draining out of the body onto your flooring… or carpeting. And you will look at them over and over again. Some hours later after they remove the body, you get to do the clean up.

Perhaps weeks or months will go by before you discover the hole in between the cabinets a missed shot loged into… and that will set the stage and lift the curtain on your past event all over again. Vividly and intensely.

You’ll remember that body. See that face time and time again. You’ll recall too doing all that cleaning up or cutting out a big hole in the carpeting. Even redoing the flooring in a completely different fashion won’t erase that time from your own memory.

That’s if you live alone. If family is about, they’re gonna wake up and come to see what’s wrong, eventually…. Or they’ll see the left overs.

These things touch people differently. Sometimes deeply. Sometimes for the remainder of their lives.

Fewer and fewer threads put this portion … the aftermath into as bright a light as they do the selection process, the ballistics of the ammo… the how to hold it… how many rounds is the capacity… how to keep one running…. How to Sell or trade in an older one for a newer one. I don’t often see posts regarding the aftermath… just all the hoopla focused on acquiring guns. Shooting guns. . But not on the actual aftermath. The fall out. The stress which lingers, and can be as debilitating as being shot yourself, can be.

No one talks about that part much. It’s too bad. They should.

Such situations can work a person. Become a real problem later on. Even if it doesn’t induce PTSD, short or long term, it’ll sure change you. Even when you are 100% in the legal right thing to do, shoes. It’ll stick to your ribs better than a bowl of hot oatmeal & raisins on a January morning.

I’ve done everything I can so I don’t have to deal with that worst case scenario… with any luck at all.

I’ll also do everything I can so if a worse case scenario occurs, I’ll be able to do that part too without trepidation, or hesitation. You just seem to go into automatic mode, just like when you provide someone in a very bad accident first aid. Training just takes over as the event unfolds. You ruminate over it later but remain detached just then.

I was a first case responder in several occupations. Extreme situations were routine for me for a long period of my life.

So yes… I suspect things will fall back into place for me readily. Especially if I’m comfortable with the weapon (s) I’m using, and I’m quite OK with whatever weapon I brought on board.

Range time is important. I get that. But experience and training is too. Probably as key an element is the mind set when you realize you are about to undertake dire circumstances, and allow your mind and body to respond according to your history. Your training. Your experience. You’ll act faster if you’re not having to think. If emotions aren’t clouding the issue. If fear is a thing you are in control of going in. Fear’s always there to some extent…. But you have to overcome it and live with it in those instances… not IN it.

I’ve established perimeter alarms and with some redundancy in key areas outside my home. So I know now in advance of someone breeching my home’s integrity… and where that breech will likely occur. Cameras will soon eliminate any guess work there…. Or serve for I.D. purposes afterward.

I’ve covered or will cover every base I can think of so lethal force is not deployed.

If however it must be then it must be. I’m very matter of fact on this topic, and the actions needed either way.

Do everything you can to avoid use of leathal force which you are able to do, first. If you can avoid pulling the trigger, I assure you, you’ll be glad you did….

Twice now since my exterior floods were brought online, I’ve heard late night possible occasions for a bad time got circumvented. I believe one event I was quicker to check out showed me the floods were still on… and they are set for a given period of operation. So they were triggered and just moments earlier. Funny how light moves people off.

Sorry about the verbage and length. I feel it’s necessary to clarify as best one can the important things… and the importance here can hold lives in the balance… which is kind of important IMHO.

I’m quite looking forward to doing some major plinking with both the SPX & P 345 in the upcoming days. Both are now outfitted with 200 and 190 lumen lights respectively, so even in daylight I can see that spotlight!

People who look forward to using their guns scare me out of my wits… and they’ve probably never had to use a gun to stop anyone. If they have, and they still have a ‘fix things with guns first’, attitude well then I’m petrified of those people. Those zealots who’ll cry “…from my cold dead fingers” or ‘it’s my constitutional rights’, etc. Hoo boy.

They concern me as much as do these idiots that have been trying to enter where they 1`shouldn’t ought to go Both groups seem to have set aside thinking things all the way thru… or have devalued tremendously, perhaps our most critical asset, human life.

I do not feel guns should be anyone’s first response plan of action. They should be the last plan for action instead.

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