Your most intricate weapon


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Oathkeeper1775
July 23, 2011, 11:49 PM
Of all the weapons you have ever owned, handled or molested; which was the most intricate or difficult to disassemble/assemble?

I'll throw mine out there; my Ruger MKIII 22.45, Target version.

Man, that thing...I'm getting the book out every time.

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exbiologist
July 23, 2011, 11:53 PM
My original Newton. Had an interesting hidden front action screw, in that that the magazine floorplate uscrewed the the front screw my turning the whole thing.

GCBurner
July 23, 2011, 11:56 PM
Mauser M96 semiautomatic pistol. No screws or pins in it, it comes apart and goes together like a steel jigsaw puzzle.

M1key
July 24, 2011, 12:11 AM
My brain!

hahaha

Sorry, first thought that came into my...

M

451 Detonics
July 24, 2011, 12:14 AM
Of all the guns that came into the shop in a box that I had to put back together I would say the Remington Nylon 66 is the worst. I had to fabricate jigs to hold pieces in order to put that one back together.

A_Matthew
July 24, 2011, 01:20 AM
My AK-47.

Just kidding.;)

Actually, probably an AR-15. Yeah, I know, I need to get out and handle more guns more often.

M91/30
July 24, 2011, 01:42 AM
Considering I own 2 bolt actions, a 10-22, and my cz-52. Its gotta go to the cz. Kinda a pain to full disassemble...

Sunray
July 24, 2011, 03:31 AM
"...Ruger MKIII 22/45..." Those and all Ruger .22 pistols aren't designed to be easily disassembled. Ruger doesn't want you to do it anyway. Barrel assembly is a press fit. Mind you, a lot of .22 rifles, semi's mostly, don't come apart in a logical manner either. Fortunately there are books.

G27RR
July 24, 2011, 07:58 AM
My FN FNAR is a bit fiddly. Nice rifle, but not at all quick to strip, or to put back together.

oldfool
July 24, 2011, 08:07 AM
a Browning BL-22
(but the book said, "don't try this at home", so I didn't... always read the book)

Loosedhorse
July 24, 2011, 09:30 AM
Polish (Radom) Vis, aka P.35(p). Like those old Chinese box puzzles. For example, you have to take the firing pin stop half-way out, which then allows you to remove the hammer-drop catch, which then (finally) allows you to remove the firing pin stop completely.

loadedround
July 24, 2011, 10:14 AM
Either my WWII Luger or my Ruger MKII 22 auto (until I learned the trick to reassemble it). Lugers are still a PIA.

courtgreene
July 24, 2011, 10:41 AM
Agree on the 22/45's. There's a reason i traded mine for a Makarov (WAY EASIER!)

Vaarok
July 24, 2011, 10:46 AM
Winchester 1897 shotgun. Not exactly designed for quick field-stripping.

jerkface11
July 24, 2011, 10:50 AM
Nylon 66.

LiquidTension
July 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
I had to take the guts of a Marlin 60 to a gunsmith in a bag once. Not one of my prouder moments. As far as operation goes, the SPAS-12 wins hands down for the most ridiculously complicated gun to operate.

ball3006
July 24, 2011, 10:54 AM
My MAS 49-56......................chris3

Art Eatman
July 24, 2011, 11:01 AM
The first time I ever tried to reassemble a fully disassembled Win 94, getting the lever back in--with no pictures nor instructions. Not. Easy.

And +1 on Lugers.

Kliegl
July 24, 2011, 12:10 PM
I'm with G27. The FNAR just looks military, inside it is all civilian browning short stroke piston automatic rifle with 40 some parts.

Those Rugers are not fun. I took my old man's apart after 20 years of use. Not too bad inside, just a little grit. Pain to put back together.

My old man's HK 22 mag rifle is tough as well.

hq
July 24, 2011, 12:16 PM
Of all the weapons you have ever owned, handled or molested; which was the most intricate or difficult to disassemble/assemble?

By far: Colt Woodsman.

I've got a few and I've disassembled/assembled them several times but I STILL have to have a copy of the instruction manual with me if it's been more than a month or so since I've done it.

Assembling a Ruger Mk.I/II/III is a piece of cake compared to any Woodsman, IMO. Same goes for other, notoriously complicated J.M.Browning designs like the 1897 shotgun.

Overkilll0084
July 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
Of all the weapons you have ever owned, handled or molested; which was the most intricate or difficult to disassemble/assemble?
Removing and installing the F-16 M-61A1 gun system. 10 lbs of... er gun in a 5 lb bag. Pack a lunch.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article5.html

As for personally owned, Ruger MK3. Great gun, PITA to strip & reassemble.

25cschaefer
July 24, 2011, 12:26 PM
I had the bright idea to disassemble the trigger mechanism on an M16 in basic training without any tools, there is no amount of dirt in that area to make it worth it, ever.

The-Reaver
July 24, 2011, 12:53 PM
This was my first disassemble/assemble with out any help books or advice.

The Remington 870 Wingmaster. I tell you what before I understood how stupid simple it is that thing gave me about 27 hours of PO'd stress.

Other than that. I still find the trigger group on an AK pretty hard to do.

Dr.Rob
July 24, 2011, 01:05 PM
Luger by far.

Dentite
July 24, 2011, 01:05 PM
"...Ruger MKIII 22/45..." Those and all Ruger .22 pistols aren't designed to be easily disassembled. Ruger doesn't want you to do it anyway. Barrel assembly is a press fit. Mind you, a lot of .22 rifles, semi's mostly, don't come apart in a logical manner either. Fortunately there are books.

There are actually decent instructions in the Ruger 22/45 owners manual...so I wouldn't say they don't want you to take it apart.

I will say that now that I've removed the mag disconnect in mine the process of disassembly is a bit more simple.

coltsfreak18
July 24, 2011, 01:05 PM
The Luger was tough to get the hang of, but my most difficult assembly goes to my old hi-standard double nine. That thing has the most difficult spring/pin assemblies, and when disassembled without a manual and with a bent mainspring, it's even more difficult.

4570Tom
July 24, 2011, 01:16 PM
Ruger Mark II. What a pain. And the best part is, you can get get it back together and think you are all set...until you try to pull the bolt back. Then you have to start all over again.

Ole Coot
July 24, 2011, 01:59 PM
Ruger Mark I many years ago. Was brought to me in pieces and no instructions. Took many hours to get it together.

oldgold
July 24, 2011, 02:43 PM
Remington Model-51.

Bought one at a gunshow with a gunsmith friend of mine. Back at my place he figured out how it came apart but couldn't put it back together again. After two hours of trying he left. Took me two days to figure it out.

Rossi M-92. Never again !

High Standard model 100. Broken trigger disconnector spring. Three month to learn how to hold my mouth just right to get that little bugger back in.

Kendal Black
July 24, 2011, 03:05 PM
Ditto on the Winchester 94. The instruction manual simply says, don't take it apart.

It also says that in the Browning Auto 5 instructions. After examining an exploded drawing, I decided that was probably about right.

J.M. Browning was a genius, certainly, but genius does not always operate in straightforward ways.

indie
July 24, 2011, 04:31 PM
just bought a Ruger MKII


I usually dont buy guns that are difficult to dissassemble/reassemble but i need a 22lr training gun and MKII was highly recommended and i found a great deal.

skua44
July 24, 2011, 04:54 PM
P-40 Lahti. Quality Swedish military pistol, but NOT user friendly.

cleardiddion
July 24, 2011, 06:07 PM
Ruger 10/22; especially the trigger group which I accidently disassembled 100% and took forever to remedy.

Al Thompson
July 24, 2011, 08:04 PM
Rossi M-92. Never again !


Me too. Had to take the proverbial bag of parts to the gunsmith. :(

tbutera2112
July 24, 2011, 08:09 PM
may sound a little funny compared to some of yours - but the hardest to disassemble that i have personally owned is my benelli nova pump.... theres not a whole lot to it, its just so much different than most shotguns i have handled...needed the book the first time for sure...may use it next time too

KMcCoy
July 24, 2011, 08:09 PM
By far, NAA mini revolver. I used to take every to weapon apart to the last pin and spring until I could not get this one back together. When I gave up and took it to the gunsmith at the place I purchased it, he couldn't either. It had to go back to the factory for reassembly. Turns out there was a "special tool" needed. Sigh.

fl2ak
July 24, 2011, 08:25 PM
Why would you even WANT to take a lever gun apart? What could POSSIBLE be the need in it?

Dog Victor
July 24, 2011, 08:31 PM
Mossberg 152. The bolt assembly is a nightmare. Being old and worn doesn't help either.

AZ_Rebel
July 25, 2011, 12:09 AM
Everyone in the shop agrees that a Charter Arms Revolver Cylinder is their least favorite. The ejector rod assembly takes 4 hands to put together.
Putting a little 1/8" long cross pin that holds the ejector rod in a sleeve - through the hole in the extractor - while holding the sleeve against spring tension - I am sure is what turned my hair gray!

shiftyer1
July 25, 2011, 12:40 AM
For me it was a .22 rifle but I don't remember the model, it may have been a model 60. I remember starting at 8 pm and finishing around 4 am. :) I have 2 levers that i'd like to totally tear down, one a model 94 and the other a marlin 1894c but i've always held back. After reading this thread I believe i'll leave them alone.

jgiehl
July 25, 2011, 07:45 AM
Why would you even WANT to take a lever gun apart? What could POSSIBLE be the need in it?

To say you did it. That's why I took my 45-70 and I'll tell you right now I'll never do that crap again. Every screw was on the floor and I said, "HA! Done. Oh s**t how does this thing go back together?"
NEVER AGAIN. Dumbest idea ever.

CWL
July 25, 2011, 03:17 PM
I'm surprised nobody's suggested the P7 family of pistols yet. Perhaps few have wanted to do a full strip of theirs!

Here's the cocking mechanism of my P7M8.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/CWL_photos/Gat/P7mechanism.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/CWL_photos/Gat/P7HC.jpg?t=1311617790

Steve H
July 25, 2011, 03:25 PM
Nylon 66 After the first tear down I'd bet you will never do one again.

hq
July 25, 2011, 04:24 PM
I'm surprised nobody's suggested the P7 family of pistols yet. Perhaps few have wanted to do a full strip of theirs!

I removed the grips from mine over 20 years ago, put them back on and forgot about ever taking it apart. Now that I have some experience with Woodsmans I might give it a shot, it can't possibly be worse. :D

N003k
July 25, 2011, 04:33 PM
I've never yet done a detailed dissassembly yet, but just a field strip of the SVT-40 was enough to nearly drive me insane...

Al Thompson
July 25, 2011, 08:19 PM
Why would you even WANT to take a lever gun apart? What could POSSIBLE be the need in it?

Well, the rifle was a gift and it was as rough as a cobb. The action slicking I did worked just great (loaded the raceways with Clover compound, worked the action repeatedly).

Reassembly was beyond my skills. Never again! :what:

jad0110
July 25, 2011, 09:22 PM
Overall, the Ruger Mk series .22 pistols.

The biggest, most awful PIA component I've run into however was the cylinder release / cylinder bolt spring on a Taurus 5 shot .44 Special revolver (mine's a 431). It compresses down into an impossibly small channel behind the cylinder bolt/release assembly and there is no good way to capture it and get it into the channel without it flying out, twisting, bending 90 degrees, etc. I wrestled with that satanic thing for 1 hour and 50:cuss: minutes, I think I spat more obscenities :cuss: in that hour and 50 minutes than I did in my previous 32 years combined.

I cussed so much and felt so unclean afterwards, I felt an overwhelming urge to watch The Ten Commandments :D .

I've never seen such a royal pain in the butt of a design in my life :banghead: . Completely, totally, utterly stupid. Epic fail.

Warning to 5 shot .44 Taurus owners: Never, ever, ever remove that friggin' sideplate, under any circumstances!

Love the gun otherwise though. :D

PRD1
July 25, 2011, 09:31 PM
The Nylon 66 and the Winchester '97 certainly get high honors, but the one that gave me the most headache was the .276 Vickers-Pedersen SLR, for which I had no manual, and was full of parts which looked like the guts of a Kleinschmidt teleprinter.
PRD1 - mhb - Mike

bannockburn
July 25, 2011, 09:57 PM
One that comes to mind was my Benelli B-76 which seemed to have more than twice the number of small parts and springs necessary to make a functional 9mm. pistol. I kind of felt the same way with my H&K P-9S.

fl2ak
July 26, 2011, 05:05 AM
So what I find interesting in this thread, which was a great topic idea, by the way, is the common thread, with the exception of the lever guns, all of the most hate, high maintenance problem children are semi automatics and primarily pistols.

I tend to avoid automatics as much as possible, and handguns in general. I do, however, own a Winchester Model 50, early 1950's production date, and I am scared poopless to even attempt a disassembly. It was my grandfathers and now mine. Earlier this year, I was going to take it apart for cleaning (probably never done), but, fortunately, I did some research ahead of time. After learning that the gun had to be TIMED (like, as in timing an engine) during reassembly, and, if done incorrectly it would cause failure to extract, fail to feed problems, I simply gave up the idea. From my research, the Model 50 is a very precarious machine, but, fortunately, doesn't require that level of disassembly/retiming but about every 10k rounds or so (which I don't think I will reach even in my lifetime or my son's)

I simply spray the hec out of with Birchwood Casey gun scruubber, although I'm thinking of switiching to brake cleaner as gun scrubber seems identical to brake cleaner, but brake cleaner is WAAAAAY cheaper.

PS: I also have a Marlin Model 60, which I have dsmantled probably over a 100 times or more. (So much so that I now have to use teflon tape to keep the screws from backing out during use.) I don't take apart the trigger or loading mechanism/group that sits under the bolt; I just take it out and scrub it good. I've never had an issue doing it, but it is time consuming, and I would much rather have a bolt action. It currently won't eject and won't feed, so now what I have is a very complex single shot. Go figure.

Ala Dan
July 26, 2011, 09:20 AM
Ruger MK-II KMK-512 reassembly requires that you bring a lunch~! ;) :D

Dustin0104
July 26, 2011, 11:16 AM
I had to tear down my marlin 336 to replace the loading gate, it was a pain but it is together. The 22/45 gave me fits till I purchased a rubber hammer now 5 mins to reassemble. Ok now im working on a H&R topper got it in pieces to refinish looks like it's gonna be a nightmare. You guys have any experience with this darn thing? Any decent instructions out there?

Kendal Black
July 26, 2011, 12:22 PM
Ok now im working on a H&R topper got it in pieces to refinish looks like it's gonna be a nightmare. You guys have any experience with this darn thing? Any decent instructions out there?

The NRA Firearms Assembly book (http://shootery.blogspot.com/2010/07/nra-firearms-assembly-books-are.html) is at least a start. In my edition the NEF Pardner is shown--same breed of animal. The really important tip the book gives is to first assemble the parts on the pins outside the receiver, pins sticking out of the holes, so you get a clear mental picture of how things go together inside the receiver.

The mechanism is no doubt second nature to the H&R factory guys. They work with it all day and can probably assemble one in seconds without looking. That's not much help to the rest of us...

autumist
July 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
My 1903 Savage 380. Dissasembly is easy, but woe unto those that allow piece to fall out.....

Fishslayer
July 26, 2011, 01:02 PM
I'll guess my 22/45. I'm guessing because I've never had it apart. I just brush the bore, douse it down with Hoppes, scrub what I can reach with a plastic brush, blow it out with compressed air & plastic safe no rez electronics cleaner, then oil it up.

Josh45
July 26, 2011, 09:53 PM
Armscor M-AK47/22

That thing is a pain. There is no other way to put it until you get the trick. Even then, It's still a pain

SARDiver
July 27, 2011, 01:00 AM
I have a small trebuchet, strictly for home defense. Boy does THAT sucker take some care to disassemble.


Second (or fifth) the Ruger line of .22 pistols. I don't take them down anymore. Just a bore brush and cleaning of the chamber.

klutchless
July 27, 2011, 03:32 AM
Raven 25 cal if it ain't broke don't try to fix it.You need a act of god to get the slide back on.

woerm
July 27, 2011, 12:32 PM
All the Luger iterations. It should not be possible to assemble a semi auto as a single shot pistol.:scrutiny:

followed closely by the Ruger .22 mark whatever. that is a sorry excuse for a field strip. Just hose it down with gunscrubber and rinse with breakfree.:fire:

19&41
July 27, 2011, 09:18 PM
CZ 82, 83 and the Nambu type 14.

KingMedicine
July 27, 2011, 09:26 PM
My winchester 1912 has been a complete pain to take down

XxWINxX94
July 28, 2011, 01:09 AM
Well there are a couple that one might call "intricate" out of my collection.

A Colt 1877 D.A. 41 "Thunderer".
This is an original 1902 Mfg. and was one of the first double action revolvers. All parts were hand fitted and its more fragile than eggs. Already broke something in that goofy gun and my local gunsmith is on the hunt for parts.

Luger
An odd one that isn't very simple. I normally don't take off anything when I clean it.

Some of the older Winchesters have some pretty intricate mechanics under those dust covers/recievers.

FROGO207
July 28, 2011, 07:19 AM
Well strong Google-fu is your best friend if you want to disassemble a firearm. A great hint is to take digital pictures as each piece is removed then reverse the order. Even my tired brain can handle that. Ever try to really clean a Jimenez JA nine?? Take the grip screws off and when the grip is removed a bunch of small pieces start to fall out on their own. :banghead: Way too complicated for a cheap piece of iron and aluminum. I think that my levers and Ruger semi autos are a breeze compared to that JA Nine. :cuss:

Cop Bob
July 28, 2011, 10:14 AM
Of all the guns that came into the shop in a box that I had to put back together I would say the Remington Nylon 66 is the worst. I had to fabricate jigs to hold pieces in order to put that one back together.
+1... it is an aggravating endeavor....

USAF_Vet
July 28, 2011, 11:36 AM
Of my guns, my Savage 64 is a PITA to break down. Not overly complex, just time consuming. My Hi Point 995, I've never done a full break down on, so that may be more complex than the Savage, it certainly appears to be.

Easiest is a toss up between the Mosin Nagant, the Arisaka, but I think the Stevens 20 gauge is by far the easiest to break down.

localgirl
July 28, 2011, 11:46 AM
Hey, *I* was gonna say brain!

AKElroy
July 28, 2011, 11:57 AM
"...Ruger MKIII 22/45..." Those and all Ruger .22 pistols aren't designed to be easily disassembled.

I disagree. The little straw from my can of WD-40 fits into the tight little places fine; it eventually runs out clear, and presto--clean gun.

AKElroy
July 28, 2011, 12:09 PM
Easiest is a toss up between the Mosin Nagant, the Arisaka, but I think the Stevens 20 gauge is by far the easiest to break down.

SKS / AK's are the easiest for me; a blind monkey could do it. OK, he might need to take off the blindfold to find that little rear trunion spring now located in the next county after the first SKS takedown, assuming it didn't cause permanent blindness on its assent, but after that it's a peace of cake.

Smokey in PHX
July 28, 2011, 02:59 PM
Setting up my compound bow. Disassembling any gun is easier than that bow.

lucky-gunner
July 28, 2011, 03:10 PM
I would say there are two that come to mind right away. Both are rimfire...go figure.

The Ruger .22 regardless of model aren't all that fun.

I just had to reassemble my friends Walther SP22. I still have the blood blister to show how fun it is to reassemble.

__________________
22 lr ammo (http://www.luckygunner.com/rimfire/22-lr-ammo)

NoobCannon
July 28, 2011, 04:34 PM
Taurus PT840, my first ventures into handgun. Getting the slide off is so easy a caveman can do it. From there, you better have goggles on. I ended up losing the runaway firing pin spring and the little pin that held the firing pin retainer in somewhere in the carpet. I spent about an hour with my face to the ground like I had lost a contact lens or something. I've since learned, though. Much easier with practice.

My H&R Pardner Pump is a royal pain, too. It takes an extra set of hands(Or Monkey Feet in my case) To get the pump and the bolt in all at once without having the spotlessly clean bolt falling into god knows what the cats drug in on the floor. I haven't even tried to disassemble the trigger group. Too many little parts, too many ways for me to mess up. I just brush the group with Hoppes and hose it all clean with Remoil.

CoRoMo
July 28, 2011, 04:51 PM
I've found the 22/45 to be quite simple. I don't mine sitting down and taking it down to every little and last part. Sort of enjoy it actually.

My BLR though, I would never even attempt to take it apart.

VT Deer Hunter
July 28, 2011, 09:19 PM
Mine are easy to put together. The shotgun has one screw and you take the bolt out. The rifle 2 screws and same things and not to hard.

Loosedhorse
July 28, 2011, 09:32 PM
All the Luger iterations. It should not be possible to assemble a semi auto as a single shot pistol.Heck, you install the slide stop incorrectly in a Glock and you've got yourself a single-shot!

What's all this stuff about Lugers, anyway? First time I cleaned one, took it down and put it together without a manual, no problem. Actually, did the same with the Vis I mentioned...it just took a lot more head-scratching and barely averted profanity.

I guess we should distinguish between basic disassembly/reassembly (I hear Ruger Mark I/II/IIIs are awful), and down to pins and springs disassembly (which is a bear for lots of guns, and simple for a few).

No, I would not like to take down a P7 to pins and springs. But I'm pretty sure I can re-assemble a Glock from the ground up with my eyes closed.

El Caballo Loco
July 28, 2011, 11:53 PM
A Makarov got me the first time when I hunted for a take-down switch/lever/button not knowing the entire trigger-guard was it. An MP5 or similar cam-bolt style guns still mess with me.

darkwaterkid
July 29, 2011, 07:49 AM
Rohrbaugh R9s is a little tricky, though not particularly complex. Many owners buy specialized tools to help remove and insert the takedown pin, and help reinstall the recoil spring assembly. I started with those, but with practice found better ways to approach it; no tools are needed except for something to push the takedown pin (I usually use the straw from a can of solvent).

billymarr
July 29, 2011, 10:47 AM
the 25mm bushmaster when I was in the Army. After messing with it everything becomes easy

KevininPa
July 29, 2011, 07:24 PM
.....CZ82/83, yeah, they're a pain. My personal pain now is a Sig 232. Detail strip isn't bad until you have to reassemble the hammer section. They say that the 232 is Sigs "Swiss Watch" and won't allow this one to be made in America. Just want to add that for a blowback it's detailed. Other firearms mentioned are far worse.

Got_Lead?
July 30, 2011, 03:26 AM
The Remington M11 (Browning A-5) Shotgun is like one of those puzzles that once you find and pull out the key piece, it all falls apart.

The Mauser C-96 is a little convoluted, but not too bad, just the big action spring is a little stiff to get that trigger cam back into place in the lockwork.

Ruger Mk-I, II, III family can be a little rough getting the mainspring housing off and back in. No worse than the Colt Woodsman though.

Ruger Blackhawk mainsprings can be a bugger to replace on their stems.

And the worst of all was a Rossi M62 (copy of the Winchester .22 Pump). I almost gave up on getting the mainspring back on this little feller.

Flopsweat
July 31, 2011, 07:31 AM
+1 on the Savage 64 (22 semi-auto rifle). Not complicated, just a pain in the hiney. I don't break it down very often any more - I just clean and oil what I can get at with the action open. It doesn't come apart until the bolt gets gummed up, which takes forever. Great teaching gun though - I start all of my new shooters on this one.

The easiest field strip I've seen so far is a Saiga 12. Comes apart just like any proper AK but the parts are way bigger.

*NOVA*
July 31, 2011, 08:43 AM
Of my guns, my Savage 64 is a PITA to break down. Not overly complex, just time consuming. My Hi Point 995, I've never done a full break down on, so that may be more complex than the Savage, it certainly appears to be.

Easiest is a toss up between the Mosin Nagant, the Arisaka, but I think the Stevens 20 gauge is by far the easiest to break down.
+1 on the Savage 64. Every time I take it down I figure the screws are one turn away from stripping. I clean and oil the threads each time to re-assemble.

Daveboone
August 1, 2011, 05:09 PM
Mauser Broomhandle is a chinese puzzle of the first degree!
I agree with many others in saying the take down and reassembly of the Ruger Mk 1, 2s, etc. are a pain in the but until you have done it several hundred times.

dataDyne
August 2, 2011, 02:31 PM
My Howa 1500 in .223

It took me about an hour to get the magazine back together.

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