Norway tragedy


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KJS
July 24, 2011, 09:42 AM
Can anyone fill me in on the basics of guns laws in Norway? Like how does a Novegian guy get some type of automatic weapon to go on a shooting spree? News reports haven't told me what model of gun was used, though perhaps some of you have followed the story and would know. Legally owned or a semi-auto illegally modified to full auto?

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scaatylobo
July 24, 2011, 09:44 AM
I too am curious as their gun laws.

But I am furious that the island seemed to be a "gun free zone",and no one had the ability or tools to dispatch that pos.

That would not have happened in Israel.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 24, 2011, 09:52 AM
I agree, when there are gun-free zones, the bad guy does not respect that at all. Considering there will always be 'bad-guys' and there will most likely always be guns had by the bad guy(s), one must assume that the bad guy(s) are not going to abide by ANY gun restriction that is in place in any location!

If they are going to have a gun-free zone, then screen everyone entering the place for guns and for other weapons and have a provision not allowing anyone to enter who has not been screened.

The law-abiding citizen follows restrictions regarding gun-free zones, however, this puts law-abiding citizens at a disadvantage should bad guy(s) decide to enter said gun-free zone with any kind of weapon(s). We see this in our country where certain places are supposed to be "gun-free!"

Hugo
July 24, 2011, 09:58 AM
Clearly this murderer had planned this extensively which is very hard to defend against. This guy seems to be evil and dangerous like Charles Manson (Helter Skelter race war) and Timothy McVeigh combined which is a real nightmare, worst-case scenario.

Since he had either a authentic stolen police uniform or made a fake police uniform this really was a worst case scenario. Shooting a criminal in a police uniform (even if you know he must be fake) would be tough for most people, especially a community centric country like Norway, since you are trained from childhood to respect and trust police. The murderer knew this and used this. He abused the public trust in a terrible way.

Firearms at the camp by one of the camp counselors would have improved the odds but this is a really bad situation that would not have ended well in the best case. I'm wondering if the summer camp had a rifle range for target shooting or a rifle/shotgun kept locked up in case of a rogue bear (yes Norway has those too).

This is a tragic situation all around. Lets hope people react sanely and not have some foolish moral panic in countries around the world.

Criminals (especially psychopaths) don't care about the law and look at weak areas as safe work places with easy targets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

KJS
July 24, 2011, 10:03 AM
Gun grabbers always seem to think more guns equal more shootings. I can think of one place I've never heard of a spree shooting: at a shooting range. It would be the world's shortest spree when everyone else is armed and can fire back.

Seems like police response was delayed due to this camp being on an island that took them some time to get to. So much for the idea that cops will pop up almost instantaneously to defend the innocent.

Cal-gun Fan
July 24, 2011, 10:03 AM
I highly doubt that a labor party political summer camp had a gun, unfortunately. You can't force people to have guns, and without training or with little of it the person using it would have been more harm than good. The man seems to be ex-Norwegian military, so he obviously has some training.
This guy was insane, not crazy. There just isn't a way to prevent stuff like this unfortunately.

Boompa
July 24, 2011, 10:07 AM
I was shocked at the size of the island: only 26 acres total! That's not much space for 600 teenagers to try to hide. No wonder some tried to swim the 1/2 mile to land.

It was also weird that the police took 90 minutes to arrive on scene. They apparently did not have a helicopter and couldn't locate a boat. :confused:

Here is a summary of Norwegian gun laws...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway

parsimonious_instead
July 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
The bad guys always have the initiative, unfortunately. All we can do is wait until they strike, and then react.

jon_in_wv
July 24, 2011, 10:20 AM
Norway has the highest rate of private gun ownership in the world from what I've read. I'm fact you are required to have a gun when traveling in some areas.


I just read the story and I'm shocked. What a travesty in the home of my ancestors. I wish people would get over their desire to always find out what these guys motives are though. His motives and radical beliefs will become the story and the killer gets the coverage for his cause that he always wanted. They should post his name ONLY, no picture, NO specifics on his cause. They said he was a right wing anti-muslim radical, that is enough for me.

From one of the news stories:

Muslim leaders in Norway swiftly condemned the attacks. “This is our homeland, this is my homeland,” said Mehtab Afsar, secretary general of the Islamic Council of Norway. “I condemn these attacks, and the Islamic Council of Norway condemns these attacks, whoever is behind them.”

Its about time.

Snowdog
July 24, 2011, 10:53 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rbKJhQASPPE/SWTHaOQCCQI/AAAAAAAABS0/op_AXJMg4rc/s320/CHOPPER07.jpg

Heck, when I think of Norway, I think of a guy with a H&K rifle shooting at a running dog from a helicopter and tossing the occasional grenade. Sounds like they could of used of little of that for Breivik.

lemaymiami
July 24, 2011, 11:52 AM
-what I'm hoping to see is a thorough rundown on the means, methods, etc. for this monster. It would be helpful to have a good picture of that country's weapons situation, actual amount of private gun ownership, what they're actually able to purchase as a citizen, quantity and types of weapons on the market there...

The whole situation, where a lot of unarmed, easy targets were on a small island with no easy access by authorities responding, has to be a nightmare for folks in a relatively small country. My guess is that they'll eventually come up with a much better response plan (probably military since they'd have the transportation and the ability to establish some kind of a quick response, as well as the manpower to be able to go on a 24/7 basis). Another guess is that only a country like Israel that's had such a bloody history has been doing just that for many years now.....

As a retired cop I'm betting that the police in Norway are really down right now. They were caught short in a worst case scenario and normal procedures really hinder quick response and that allows a shooter to really rack up a score....

rbernie
July 24, 2011, 11:59 AM
The question regarding the Norwegian gun laws has been answered in post #7.

Insofar as the other questions - there's gonna be plenty of time for analysis. While I think that it's natural curiosity to ask, I also think that it's also somewhat disrespectful to engage in these discussions right now.

Let's not.

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