My AK SBR - Pics included!


July 26, 2011, 02:01 PM

I wanted to clear the air with everybody here because I think I have been misunderstood slightly. I know I have been on other forums.

I posted a review of an SBR I finally got on this forum. I also posted my review on many other gun forums. My main reason for doing this was to show off my new toy, but one of the products my SBR came equipped with was a replacement for the Larue AK IronDot mount that I know everybody has been looking for since Larue discontinued them. I figured just about anybody with an AK would want to see it. Unfortunately, I got mislabeled as a 'guerilla marketer' which I had never heard of before, but on this forum and a few others I was accused of having an affiliation with the company that made my SBR.

I want to clear the air with that. I have no connection to them, I was just sharing my new gun.


Hey guys!
I originally posted this on a different forum, but I thought you all might enjoy it or be interested as well, so here you go!

Apologies in advance for what turned out to be a really long post. Hopefully you guys will find it interesting and relevant.

It’s been a long time since I’ve posted anything – been really busy. But I wanted to show you my newest, baddest toy! I finally got an NFA item…Introducing my SBR AK! I thought about building mine, and actually almost started it, until I ran into a company that did it almost exactly how I wanted it (in fact some things they included made it a little better) for barely more than it would cost me myself. Plus I had the luxury of not spending time on ordering parts, waiting to assemble, etc. All I had to do was order it and put my paperwork in! ATF took about 3 months but the process was actually fairly smooth and once I got my tax stamp, I got my SBR.

Here it is: my Attero Arms AK SBR review.

I know you’re all itching to see it (if you didn’t skip the above paragraph for the pictures anyway). I will just throw the pictures into the post so that as you read through you can also see pictures.

This isn’t an ordinary SBR from what I can see – I’ve handled some Draco SBRs and some Krinks. The Krinks are sweet, but they are really expensive and I prefer the normal AK platform personally. This SBR takes normal AK parts like Handguards and pistol grip (minus shorter gas piston). It is made by a company called Attero Arms and Accessories. According to their website, Attero is run by two current service members, which I thought was cool.

Anyway, Attero included some things on their AK that I wouldn’t have thought of. On their website they probably list it in more detail, but here is what I noticed:

A bolt hold open notch in the safety lever. I know lots of people have done this but I do think it is a great feature to have on any AK. They also did something to the feed ramp to make sure hollow points feed reliably since I guess some hollow points are shorter and don’t feed well. Never encountered that problem on my full-size AK but I have heard of it happening so I am glad they took care of it.

Ok, now for possibly the sweetest part about this rifle, which I couldn’t have done myself (besides the looks, which I find fairly simple but very clean…the color scheme just works really well). Attero includes their original product with every SBR they make – it’s this optics mount called the “Attero Arms AK Micro Optics Mount” and it replaces the rear sight. Mine came to me installed so I am not sure how tough installation is. I put a a Burris FastFire on mine. Since the original iron sights were removed, there are built in iron sights with white dots. I think the iron sights are actually better than the stock ones because the rear sight channel is wider and you can pick it up much quicker with the white-dots they have on the front and rear sights. I think if you order the mount separately they also give you a replacement front sight but I am not positive as mine came on the SBR.

Anyway, this mount is sweet. I am sort of surprised I hadn’t heard about it before. I plan on getting one soon for my full-sized AK. If people are interested I could do a review on that too perhaps. From my range time, I can say that the mount has not moved or wiggled at all. It makes quick shots and follow up shots both really really easy. I had to adjust the irons a little bit but once I got them dialed, they were easy to use as well. The white dots are nice. Even with the mount really close to my receiver cover, I can easily remove and reattach the cover for cleaning. You can see below how close the mount is to the reciever.

Ok, that’s the mount. If you have an AK, this is the only way to have optics on it. I already trashed my old ‘side clamp’ mount…I never realized how poor of a cheek weld I was getting until I went out and shot my SBR. Since the optics are so close to the receiver, I can get an AR style cheek weld while co-witnessing my optics. Love it.

Alright on to the rifle itself. It is truly awesome to shoot. Being an AK SBR there is definitely a huge muzzle blast. This thing is nothing short of a cannon! Definitely was attracting attention at the range. The folding stock was a little stiff when I first got it, but its broken in now and works great. I really like that it locks in the closed position as well as the extended one because the ACE mechanisms don’t do that and I find it annoying. All you have to do to open the stock is pull on it though. Once you give a little pressure it releases and folds into the open position where it locks firmly. No wiggle whatsoever which I was actually sort of surprised about. Everything on this rifle is sturdy. The trigger is not match grade but it isn’t sloppy either. No trigger slap and the reset was actually pretty nice. I don’t see myself changing the trigger. I think it’s a Tapco, if that makes a difference. The hand guards are just sweet. The rail covers they included really break up the coyote and I just love how it looks to be honest. I am not sure about if I will mount anything yet. The pistol grip is a Hogue and is extremely comfortable – feels maybe a touch wider than the Hogue that came from the factory on my Rock River AR. It matches the hand guards and I can’t say enough about how much I love what they did with the color scheme.

Can anybody tell I love this rifle?

Accuracy was better than I expected. No, you won’t shoot Minute of Angle with a 11.5” AK. But you will shoot nice groups at 50 or 100yds. I handed my rifle off to a retired Marine at my range who managed to shoot a 20rd group about the size of my fist. He cared less about his group and more about my SBR though.

I had no failures of any sort which is to be expected from an AK, but I was using Wolf JHP’s so I guess their feed-ramp fix works. I have put 1100 rounds through it so far.

Other than what I’ve covered I am not sure what else somebody would want to know. I called Attero to ask if they have any sort of 16” model with the same features so that people could get them without the ATF paperwork and 4 month wait. The gentleman I spoke with says they are working on it now because they’ve been receiving a lot of those requests. Personally I like the SBR – with the stock folded I can fit it in my backpacking pack when I go hiking. It also fits in a tennis racket case! Not sure if that’s cool or scary. Both maybe.

Here are some comparison pics with my standard bone-stock AK. I did one side by side, one with the muzzle brake on the SBR removed, and one with the muzzle brake removed AND stock folded.

Well what do you guys think of my new toy? Like it? I think my favorite part about this thing, besides how it looks, is that optics mount. It really makes it so there is nothing better about my AR anymore. I find myself taking this SBR to the range a lot more.


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July 26, 2011, 02:18 PM
i do think that is pretty neat :-)


July 26, 2011, 03:08 PM
That is really something!! I've been thinking about building an SBR AR off a VLTOR upper, but this is really making me reconsider....

July 26, 2011, 03:20 PM
Ooohhhhh...... Pretty...... *drool*

July 26, 2011, 03:23 PM
How much will that AR project run you?

July 26, 2011, 04:03 PM
Around 3 grand with all the goodies I a noveske switch block barrel, KAC SR-15 lower.....all the fun stuff.
I really wish they made this AK SBR in 5.56.

July 26, 2011, 04:24 PM
Set on 5.56 eh?

Well...I have had great customer service from them so far, and they do claim to be a custom gun manufacturer...maybe call them and see if they could make you one? You never know. Their website is

Let us know what you find out...I'd be interested to know if they could do it.

July 26, 2011, 05:47 PM
You're a jerk twister. I've recently decided that I "need" an EBR and while I started on the AK side of the fence, have spent the last month on the AR side. Now your post of the most drool worthy EBR I've seen in a while is confounding me all over again :uhoh:.

July 26, 2011, 06:03 PM
What is an EBR? Did you mean SBR?

If you guys think THESE pictures are good, you should see the ones on the Attero website. I am seriously considering picking up their wood handguards model! The pictures on their website are just too damn sexy.

July 26, 2011, 08:05 PM
That's a great looking SBR Twister. I can defiantly say that's one of the best looking AK SBR's i've seen and prefer its size over the Krinks. How do you like that optic. I bought a knock off to test and never really warmed up to it but then again it was a knock off so....

July 26, 2011, 08:09 PM
EBR is Evil Black Rifle.

That optic mount looks very much like the Larue Irondot mount that went out of production. Have you shot much with it yet? I'd be curious to know how stable it is and whether it has any issues with losing zero. I've been looking for a mount like that for my krink for a long time now...

July 26, 2011, 08:10 PM

I wish I could take credit for the SBR but you'll have to forward your compliments to Attero Arms!

I like the burris a lot. It is the FastFire II and the main improvement over the original is that the FFII is waterproof. I like that I can turn the burris off - something bugs me about the other micro optics that are constantly on. I understand that is a nice feature for just grabbing the rifle and shooting it, but with the optics mount I have, I could just make the initial shot with the white-dot irons, and then if I needed to i can quickly swipe the switch to ON without even breaking cheek-weld or firing grip. If you really wanted it on all the time, its got a ridiculously long battery life anyway so you could just leave it on all the time if you wanted.

So to answer your question, the FastFire is sweet, but its sweetness is magnified tenfold because of the mount it sits on.


I have put 1,000 rounds through the SBR - 700 in one day and the other 300 a few days after. It hasn't budged or lost its zero. If you get your hands on one mounted, you'll see it isn't going anywhere. It has a few different retention devices pulling on it in different directions. If i remember correctly, the gentleman at Attero also said that once optics are mounted, a few drops of blue locktite ensure nothing will back out under even the most extreme firing conditions.

There is also something genuinely comforting about the fact that the owners are both currently serving. I always like giving my business to people in the Armed Forces.

July 26, 2011, 08:13 PM
I really like that sight setup!

July 26, 2011, 08:18 PM
Good to know - thanks!

BTW, that is a very pretty SBR you have there. Mine's ugly as sin. :) My biggest complaint (my only complaint, actually) is the very short sight radius.

July 26, 2011, 08:21 PM
Hey, it gets the job done!

Rob G
July 27, 2011, 02:55 PM
That's pretty sweet looking. I don't know if it would fit but have you considered a Texas Weapons Systems Dog Leg Scope Mount?

It basically replaces the top cover of the AK receiver with one that has a full length rail. It even comes with an optional rear sight which is nice for lengthening your sight radius. One of the guys on tested one pretty extensively and found that there was no loss of zero.

Anyway, that's a really sweet SBR and it definitely gave me a few ideas for one I'm hoping to do soon.

July 27, 2011, 03:29 PM
That looks pretty cool! Never heard of it before but I do know that some of those receiver cover mounts don't hold zero well due to wiggling and removal of the cover. Sounds neat though!

Rob G
July 27, 2011, 06:56 PM
It is pretty cool twister. I haven't tested it myself but my understanding from others that have tested it is that there was no problem holding zero. Even after the dust cover was removed to clean the rifle the optic did not need to be recalibrated. I don't know how well it compares to the OP's mount but I thought of using it myself on an SBR to lengthen the sight radius a bit.

July 27, 2011, 09:28 PM
Just an FYI folks, twisterx44 posted the same thing over on We The Armed where I moderate. I gave him the benefit of the doubt on not being a spammer/astroturfer and I regret it.

The email address he used to register his account is the same one listed in the contact info for Attero Arms:

He's not a happy customer of this company as he claims, he is in fact the apparent owner of the company. I don't mind people promoting their wares (in a manner appropriate to the forum), but I have a big problem with dishonesty.

July 27, 2011, 09:40 PM

I registered on all forums with the email

The email registery you showed has Attero under a completely different account.

This is malicious. Why would you do something like this with no legitimate proof? Think of what will do to Attero.

July 27, 2011, 09:43 PM
FWIW, when I started looking into the optics mount, I discovered that another company has just released a similar product. Midwest Industries is advertising a mini dot mount here ( that does the same tihng but looks much more cleanly manufactured. It also has some adjustability to compensate for off-square rear sight blocks, and they have versions available for several different mini dot optics.

After looking at both, I think Midwest is where I'll be going for my mount. Looks like a better product for the same price.

July 27, 2011, 09:50 PM
The email address you used to register at is the same one listed in the contact info for, and that address must be verified for the account to be activated.

You can call me a liar if you like, but I think most people are smart enough to figure it out for themselves.

July 27, 2011, 09:57 PM
Interesting coincidence too, that there's a Nate Ariel going by twisterx44 on myspace. (

Isn't that the same name listed in the whois for and listed on the FFL info for Attero at Gunbroker (

Bob M.
July 27, 2011, 10:37 PM

July 30, 2011, 08:26 PM
BTW, that is a very pretty SBR you have there. Mine's ugly as sin.

Ugly looks good on an AK! :)

Here is mine:

Started life as a Draco-C, added VZ52 stock, Ultimak gas tube mount, and Primary Arms red dot. Can still use the irons. That US made "fake" Krinkov brake really works and was a great find at ~$15. I refinished the wood to try and match the pistol grip color. I'm very happy with the way it shoots and handles.

The Texas Weapon Systmes rail is great, I've got one on my Saiga .223, but it requires the full length rear tang to mount and thus is not really compatible with any of the folding stocks I'm aware of, although you might be able to make it work with the Romanian/Polish wire side folder which uses a standard rear trunnion with tang.

Sam Cade
July 30, 2011, 08:45 PM
Dang Jesse! lol!

Nuked from orbit!

July 30, 2011, 08:56 PM
The Texas Weapon Systmes rail is great, I've got one on my Saiga .223, but it requires the full length rear tang to mount and thus is not really compatible with any of the folding stocks I'm aware of, although you might be able to make it work with the Romanian/Polish wire side folder which uses a standard rear trunnion with tang.

The gen 2 does not require a tang. That said for a red dot I would go with an ultimak and an aimpoint micro. And yes i have a TWS gen 2 cover/rail.

July 31, 2011, 03:13 AM
how hard is it to clean with that rail system?

Sam Cade
July 31, 2011, 04:11 AM
Set on 5.56 eh?

Well...I have had great customer service from them so far, and they do claim to be a custom gun manufacturer...maybe call them and see if they could make you one? You never know. Their website is

Let us know what you find out...I'd be interested to know if they could do it.

So......are you or are you not Nate?

The Evidence says you are....

Twisterx44 has no relation to Attero Arms other than they were one of the first customers to purchase our SBR.
Interview via email with Nate of the Attero Arms Sales Team,

July 31, 2011, 09:43 AM
The gen 2 does not require a tang.

Thanks, I wasn't aware there was a gen 2 TWS rail system. How does it mount in the back?

how hard is it to clean with that rail system?

The gen 1 TWS rail has a latch (the bottom of which is mounted on the rear tang using a screw into the stock) and flips up to let you remove the top cover. Works well, but then my AKs don't exactly get a lot of cleaning -- big part of their charm :)

August 6, 2011, 12:52 PM
I noticed I was getting traffic from this thread.
My statement on the situation:

Aaron Baker
August 6, 2011, 01:30 PM
It's not a bad looking SBR, but since this thread seems to be more of a guerrilla marketing campaign to sell their scope mount, I gotta say that it doesn't look as nice as it could. The name "Attero" is stamped on the side really unprofessionally. I mean, if you're gonna have the name stamped on, can you not get the letters stamped uniformly?

And the mashed-up roll pin that is holding it into the rear sight block isn't that nice looking either.

So if you're not a guerrilla marketer, Twister, why not give us some insight into how you feel about the amateur-level finish on your expensive SBR?


August 6, 2011, 01:43 PM
Geez the guy gave a good and accurate report on his rifle. The optic mount IS kewl and now seems the only game in town. The mashed roll pin is dog butt ugly and at least black it out to shut up whiners.

August 6, 2011, 02:06 PM
It isn't worth all of this fuss. I made a mistake by posting my review on so many forums. But ive been repeatedly explained myself and am continually labeled as a 'guerilla marketer' so I am done. I've got nothing to prove. I will think twice next time a post here, thats all. Not a big deal.

Oh, and offense man but you really come off as just trying to hop on the bandwagon and generate traffic to your blog. Just a heads up.

As for all those links with 'evidence', they don't even work. Let me guess, thats proof of guilt? Its like guilty until proven innocent here.

Take it easy everybody.

August 6, 2011, 02:35 PM
Nate, you haven't been forthcoming with any public retractions or apologies and are still making efforts to hide what you've done instead of just owning up to it and taking your medicine. Worse, you are impugning people who are just trying to get to the truth behind all your lies.

You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by just publicly admitting your mistake.

In light of all that, I'm forced to share this:

On 7/27/2011 9:02 PM, Nate Ariel wrote:
> Hey.
> This completely blew up. I am just going to come clean because quite frankly I'm not a dishonest person and I have been feeling like **** all day from this.
> I am leaving for Afghanistan soon and wanted to kick-start our company's reputation on the internet. I didn't know "guerrilla marketing" existed or was frowned upon when I did those initial posts. When people started questioning what my affiliation was, I did the completely wrong thing. I panicked, and I lied.
> I am not asking you to 'believe' that I am not a dishonest person. As for what you and deathrider are doing, I would probably be doing the same thing in your shoes. I would be pissed off if some guy did what I did. I am coming clean though, and if nothing else you could recognize that.
> I only wanted to help out my company which now is in line to suffer tremendously at my expense. I am asking you to find some mercy in your heart and delete your threads on THR and your friends threads on AR15. I will delete mine and I will try to explain to my business partner what happened.
> I guess the ball is sort of in your court. I'm not really going to apologize because I feel like it would be blown off. For what it is worth though, I feel terrible. I didn't set out on this 'forum campaign' trying to be deceitful. I didn't realize it would become this. I should have just said "here is our product what do you guys think?"
> Just let me know.
> On 7/27/2011 6:45 PM, Jesse Lambert wrote:
>> How long do you think you can keep this up? Forum admins aren't stupid.

Anyone I will forward full copies of the entire exchange to anyone who cares to PM their email address to me.

August 6, 2011, 02:35 PM
You've been busy covering your tracks.

But don't think other evidence doesn't exist. DomainTools caches domain entries, so anyone who's interested enough can go back and look at what it was before.

Dude... why do you keep this up? You're just damaging your business further. If you'd just come clean to everyone you could maybe repair some of the damage. Instead you're just covering your lies with more lies, rather that just putting a stop to it. I don't get it.


EDIT: RE: Jesse's post above

Well, I guess that'll do it, huh? I hope you don't keep this up Twister.

August 6, 2011, 03:57 PM
Well there you go. I am just going to delete my account. I am leaving to afghanistan shortly anyway. Sorry everybody.

Sam Cade
August 6, 2011, 04:34 PM
So where should I mail that Blue Falcon patch to?


August 6, 2011, 04:57 PM
Oh, and offense man but you really come off as just trying to hop on the bandwagon and generate traffic to your blog. Just a heads up.

I'm sure I look like that, because that's exactly what I was doing for you and "Nate" of the" Attero Arms Sales Team" when you had me convinced you were just a customer and I was on the bandwagon for a company that at the time I felt was getting an unfair shake.

I regret that now allowing myself to be so easily duped and used. I've told my readers where I felt I went wrong and I am completely open to more criticism from them. One thing I know, I won't be going to bat for anyone else on my blog anytime soon. The thing is I wonder if I was the one that made you realize to delete everything. I was so close that first night to finding out the truth and let you lead me astray.

August 6, 2011, 05:06 PM
You guys can badmouth me and berate me till you turn blue in the face, but to comment on my quality as a service member, well shame on you. Everybody makes mistake. I made a large one. I am taking a year off anyway for my deployment so I won't be around anytime soon.

Stay safe everyone.

Sam Cade
August 6, 2011, 05:17 PM
You guys can badmouth me and berate me till you turn blue in the face, but to comment on my quality as a service member, well shame on you.

You continued to lie right up until a couple hours ago, what does that say about your character?

August 6, 2011, 06:14 PM
I made a poor choice. Don't mistake that with a representation of either my character when you've never me me, or my quality as a soldier. That's naive. I made a mistake. I learned my lesson and I will drive on. I don't see the need to continue my involvement with this thread.

Sorry again. What I did was wrong. I hope at some point you guys can zoom out a little and realize my intentions weren't malicious, but I will agree they were poor choices. If you will not let it go, I understand.


Rob G
August 6, 2011, 10:27 PM
I think it's time for the mods to shut this one down. There's nothing High Road in this thread anymore...

August 6, 2011, 10:45 PM
There is no such thing as "Character" anymore, repeated lies are just "poor choices".

And the liar says we "Shouldnt judge".

Welcome to America in 2011.

Aaron Baker
August 6, 2011, 10:56 PM
The optic mount IS kewl and now seems the only game in town. The mashed roll pin is dog butt ugly and at least black it out to shut up whiners.

It's nowhere close to the only game in town. Midwest Industries is basically making one exactly like that, except theirs doesn't have their company name hand-stamped in skewed letters down the side and isn't held on with a boogered-up roll pin.

It's also interesting that this guy played so hard on his affiliation with the military to sell the product in the first post. He's trying to say now that his lies don't reflect on his character, but when he was pretending to be someone else, he made a big deal about buying from a military-member-owned company, basically suggesting that we should support the company because it was owned by military members, not because of the quality of the products.

I'd like some answers about the quality of the products, myself. But I'm not sure I could ever trust a review of an Attero Arms product now--who is to say whether the reviewer actually bought one or if he just works for the company.


August 7, 2011, 10:32 AM
OH ! I defer to those who did the research!

August 7, 2011, 08:31 PM
FWIW, there's a thread of arfcom ( with a post from a guy (not employed by Attero) who actually did order one and reviewed it. I just received a Midwest Industries mount and Primary Arms dot that I'll be posting a review of in a day or two.

Despite the Attero debacle, I'm really happy to see this type of mount being made again.

August 10, 2011, 05:04 PM
Great looking SBR!!!

August 10, 2011, 06:48 PM
Oh, that's a very nice!

Sam Cade
August 10, 2011, 06:50 PM
I have a hard time seeing the rifle for the layer of BS that it is coated in.

Zak Smith
August 10, 2011, 08:27 PM
Alright, now I think we've seen this one through.

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