600 Overkill Build


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56hawk
July 29, 2011, 01:43 AM
Convinced my gunsmith to build me a 600 Overkill. Building this gun strictly to get the maximum amount of recoil. I have a 460 Weatherby that I use as a range time fun gun, but it's just not impressive enough. See video links:

http://youtu.be/8CQz0hIZPhs
http://youtu.be/qB8P4-R3L-Y

Anyway, I have a CZ550 magnum action on order. Just want some opinions on the rest of the parts. The main questions are stock and barrel length. I'm leaning toward a McMillan synthetic stock in light brown/light tan. Open to other color ideas though. Barrel length I want to keep fairly short. I Photoshopped the pictures below to get an idea of what the rifle would look like with 16, 18 and 20 inch barrels. Any thoughts on what looks the best, or any other ideas?
Thanks

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Art Eatman
July 29, 2011, 09:38 AM
My personal sense of aesthetics is that longer barrels look more well-proportioned.

Sam1911
July 29, 2011, 10:01 AM
Just curious, and I can't seem to find the definative answer:

Has the .600 Overkill been granted an exemption from the NFA Title II Large Bore Destructive Device classification?

I know JDJones was able to get several of his >.50" bore wildcats exempted, but I can't find out for sure about the .600 O.

56hawk
July 29, 2011, 11:28 AM
No idea on the NFA. It's basically just a belted version of the 600 Nitro Express. Not that it means anything legally, but considering how many companies are selling complete rifles in 600 Overkill I'm not too worried.

Art - Do you think the barrel should be longer than 20 inches? Figured that was the maximum I wanted for weight reasons. The 16 does kind of make it look like a blunderbuss though.

DM~
July 29, 2011, 11:31 AM
Someone already built a TC Contender pistol in 600NE, seems if you like recoil, that's what you should build.

DM

HarcyPervin
July 29, 2011, 11:38 AM
slightly masochistic, but looks like a blast. keep us updated. FWIW, I voted 20, I think it'll look better, just my .02

MachIVshooter
July 29, 2011, 11:57 AM
Building this gun strictly to get the maximum amount of recoil.

Why not a .729 Jongmans or a Nitro 4-Bore?

Someone made a 13 lb .50 BMG at one point, too.

1KPerDay
July 29, 2011, 11:59 AM
If recoil is what you really want, go with the shortest barrel. And drill a bunch of holes in the stock. :)

I voted 20" for aesthetics. A 22" would look even better IMO.

56hawk
July 29, 2011, 12:15 PM
MachIVshooter - Cost and weight to answer your question.

The 600 Overkill is the largest that will fit in a standard magnum action. Also moving up to a 50 BMG action adds a lot of weight. Trying to get in around 8 to 9 lbs.

fireman 9731
July 29, 2011, 01:11 PM
A shorter barrel will certainly be a bigger boom.

M91/30
July 29, 2011, 04:41 PM
What do you against grapes man?!?!

dubbleA
July 29, 2011, 06:15 PM
Hawk, you want impressive results on soda and grapefruits at 10-15 yards you need to try a .17, .20, .22 varmint cartridge pushing 4000fps+ with light bullet. If you are really wanting lots of recoil build a 10-15lb 50 BMG without any muzzlebreak and you'll get your wish.

56hawk
July 29, 2011, 07:14 PM
M91/30, it's just what we brought to the range that day. lol

dubbleA, I already have a 243 that pushes a 55 grain bullet over 4000 fps. It is pretty impressive on soda bottles I must admit.

The 460 Weatherby is also great for breaking rocks though:
http://youtu.be/3aR1fnZ6Ccc


As far as 50 BMGs go, I just don't think I could build one to do what I want. The hard part would be to build one that still looks like a normal bolt action at that weight. Just don't like the looks of most of the single shots or ar lower based 50s. Plus 50s are just to common these days.

Just some specs:

600 Overkill
900 grain bullet
2300 fps
8 lb rifle
300 ft-lb of recoil energy

50 BMG
750 grain bullet
2900 fps
10.5 lb rifle
300 ft-lb of recoil energy

Art Eatman
July 29, 2011, 07:20 PM
Given how subjective the liking for looks is, I suggest going to a gunshop and just look at the barrel lengths of rifles on the rack to see what looks best to you.

A lot of it has to do with proportion. A slender stock with a forearm that's not too long can look righteous with a shorter barrel, I imagine.

DAP90
July 29, 2011, 07:39 PM
300 ft-lb of recoil energy


:what:
.
.
.

I like the looks of the 20" barrel best.

MachIVshooter
July 29, 2011, 07:42 PM
600 Overkill
900 grain bullet
2300 fps
8 lb rifle
300 ft-lb of recoil energy

I understand the recoil junky thing, but you do realize that 300 ft lb is in excess of what the human body can handle, right? You're gonna end up with a damaged shoulder and/or detached retinas.

My 7.5 lb .375 Ultra comes back with 82 ft/lbs at 23 MPH with my 300 gr. handloads, and it is enough to give me a headache if I shoot more than a box in one sitting. I've shot stuff that recoiled a little harder, close to 100 ft/lbs. That's about as much abuse as I'll voluntarily subject myself to.

We only get one body. I'd suggest not doing things that destroy it if you don't absolutely have to.

56hawk
July 29, 2011, 08:38 PM
As far as recoil goes my Weatherby comes in at 115 ft-lbs. And while I don't think I've shot much more than ten rounds at one time, it's really no big deal. At least standing up. Did three in a row off the bench, and that kind of sucked. I really want to see what my threshold for recoil is. Planning on loading light to begin with and working my way up. Starting loads should be around 200 ft-lbs.

Also it's not like I'm the first to build an 8 lb 600 Overkill. Found this video on youtube:
http://youtu.be/wGfu3Rge8Xo

MachIVshooter
July 30, 2011, 01:00 AM
It's your body, brother, do as you please. Just understand that retina detachment is a very real risk and a very serious injury that can leave you vision impaired or even completely blind. Do some research.

Hizzie
July 30, 2011, 02:12 AM
You convinced you gunsmith to build you a 600overkill? Big boree rifles are best left to the experts who build that type of rifle regularly. If your guys doesn't build big bore rifles already this might not be within his skill set. You might want to head over to Accurate Reloading for more big bore info.

Maple_City_Woodsman
July 30, 2011, 02:23 AM
You're gonna end up with a damaged shoulder and/or detached retinas.


OP, you say your a 'recoil junkie' ... Junkies O.D because they crave their high over their physical safety. At 300lbs of recoil you will 'OD' if you go through with this project. Your "fun" will come at the expense of permanently damaged joints and vision loss.

If you like pain THAT much, just pay a lady in leather to whip you like everyone else.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 30, 2011, 03:01 AM
As others stated, you only have one body, why abuse it? But, to each his own. With that much recoil, there could be tearing of inside organs, tearing of tendons, etc.

MidwestRookie
July 30, 2011, 04:47 AM
I call shenanigans.

See you in the emergency room...

*And I'll only vote if 14" with perm compensator/brake is added to the list*

RSVP2RIP
July 30, 2011, 01:35 PM
Why not just stand in front of a train and yell 'bang' before it hits you for ultimate recoil? It would be cheaper...

56hawk
August 2, 2011, 01:05 AM
Just talked to a guy on another forum, and this is what he said:

I have an 8 1/2 lb 600 overkill. It has a small brake on it, and it depends what load you use on the recoil. At 2100 ft/sec with a 900 grain bullet, it is doable. With 2300 to 2350 ft/sec, it kicks a lot!

Figure I'll just start at the low end and work my way up.

1KPerDay
August 2, 2011, 12:23 PM
Why not just stand in front of a train and yell 'bang' before it hits you for ultimate recoil? It would be cheaper...
haa haaaaaa! :D

Cosmoline
August 2, 2011, 12:31 PM
It could be fun, but only if you add a foot to the barrel and make the rifle itself about 15 - 20 lbs. With an 8 lb. CZ it's just a boat payment for an orthopod.

dirtyjim
August 2, 2011, 06:55 PM
the 600 overkill is a registered sporting cartridge so you don't have to register it as a DD.
wayne a AHR has probably done more of them than anyone and unless your smith is very good at making big bores feed i would give the job to wayne at AHR or to bijou creek.
if you do let your smith take on the project and it doesn't feed make him stick to it until it does.
most people run them with a 20 or 22" barrel and a side fin brake. the brake adds about 3" to the barrel so a 20" barrel is just about right.

a couple of the guys i shoot with have had them built by AHR & Bijou Creek.

dprice3844444
August 2, 2011, 08:17 PM
http://www.gentrycustom.com muzzle brake

gordy
August 5, 2011, 06:48 PM
I voted for the 16 inch.
You should get it down to around 6 or 7 lbs.
It would make a great moose or elk gun and you could carry it around in the mountains hunting.
Make it a scout rifle.

56hawk
August 7, 2011, 10:24 PM
I voted for the 16 inch.
You should get it down to around 6 or 7 lbs.

I don't know if that would be possible. The receiver itself weighs over 3 lbs. I figure around 2.5 for the stock and 2.5 for the barrel would make 8 lbs. Not sure where I could shave any weight from that and still have everything strong enough.

The 600 Overkill is designed for a maximum chamber pressure of 65000 psi. The barrel has to be pretty hefty to take that kind of pressure.

56hawk
August 20, 2011, 08:14 PM
The receiver came in. Trying to decide whether or not to do any customizing while waiting for the barrel to be made. Think I might just smooth out some of the edges and clean it up a bit.

It's amazing how big this action is. In the lower picture it's next to a Winchester Model 70.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=147682&stc=1&d=1313884964

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=147681&stc=1&d=1313884964

Gordon
August 20, 2011, 10:55 PM
Ok IF you want to do it here is my advise:
Use a big thick blank of walnut/maple laminate or solid laid up fiberglass. This will make a nice dense and LARGE base for the cannon. Keep the shoulder width contact wide and tall! I would go 1 1/4" thick x 20" long plus a good muzzle break which is gonna add 2-3". I like Gentry Brakes but others are real good too. So now the weight is up to around 12 -13 pounds . The large stock dimensions and reasonable held weight for off hand use will bring the recoil down to useable levels and still have quite the compact gun if you keep the length of pull down around 13" .

July 1776
August 21, 2011, 12:43 AM
This sounds like a ton of fun. You could build a carriage and mount it like a cannon from time to time. Does anyone sell a 600 Overkill cartridge or is it still a roll your own.

dirtyjim
August 21, 2011, 09:29 AM
loaded ammo is available from ahr. i would also use one of their x-brakes or another style of side fin brake over a gentry.

Gordon
August 21, 2011, 10:36 AM
Agree on the brake choice. Maybe you should look up Col. Art Alphins work on stocks for big kickers.;)

natman
August 21, 2011, 12:28 PM
Someone already built a TC Contender pistol in 600NE, seems if you like recoil, that's what you should build.

DM
I suspect that anyone reading this thread has probably seen this, but IMO it never gets old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCInkw3641w

JShirley
August 21, 2011, 06:08 PM
I would think 18" would be a great combination of looks and hellacious blast. If you like your recoil hard and punishing.

dubbleA
August 21, 2011, 08:37 PM
In the original post he says he has become bored with the 460wby as a range gun blasting grapefruit. He wants maximum recoil so I am thinking this new overkill rifle will not have a brake because then it will not produce the maximum effect.

56hawk
January 25, 2012, 10:12 PM
Barrel showed up. Now it just needs the threads cut for the receiver, the chamber finished and a front sight added.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=157658&d=1327547213

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=157659&d=1327547213

LoonWulf
January 26, 2012, 12:42 AM
You know...i dont think you could pay me to shoot that LOL. Have fun, looking forward to seen how it turns out.

TenDriver
January 26, 2012, 08:51 AM
Make it a scout rifle.
...or anti-tank weapon.

No offense to the OP, but methinks you are crazy. Your money however.

LeonCarr
January 26, 2012, 08:56 AM
Why?

SlowFuse
January 26, 2012, 09:27 PM
Between reading about this and seeing the signature of "LeonCarr" i'd say this is a Chuck Norris gun. All jokes aside, looks like it will be an impressive build. Definitely following this.

56hawk
January 27, 2012, 12:36 AM
Between reading about this and seeing the signature of "LeonCarr" i'd say this is a Chuck Norris gun. All jokes aside, looks like it will be an impressive build. Definitely following this.

Thanks, I think Chuck Norris would just use it as a BB gun though.

Prosser
January 27, 2012, 05:50 AM
Get a hold of Safarikid at Accuratereloading. He had one built with a 16" barrel, and it made the handiest Alaskan rifle, ever. Great thing about those big bullets is they don't need a long barrel to burn powder. They provide enough resistance all on their own to allow the powder to burn, before moving.

No reason to have a really long barrel. On the otherhand, IIRC the original Overkill used a 28" barrel, and created some really incredible ballistics, at low pressure.

The muzzlebrake is the whole deal. Without a good one, you have a separated, or broken shoulder.

Also the recoil pad, and butt end have to be very big, so the recoil is distributed over a large area. Otherwise you might as well take a 2x4, put it in the shoulder joint, and hit it with a sledge hammer at 150 ft per second.

Snowbandit
January 27, 2012, 07:01 AM
It's the perfect rifle to have should you ever pull a permit to hunt Jurassic Park.

Prosser
January 27, 2012, 07:30 AM
Where are you getting ammunition?

I just got sticker shock trying to find ammo for my 375 H&H.

By the way, this is the Class 5 economy stopping rifle. Uses pretty much a brass shotgun case, with a .577 bullet. So, it's what the .600 Nitro Express should have been.

You load a 900 grain LFN at 2150 fps and you have a stopping rifle, the best pretty much ever, or this side of a 4 bore. Certainly the most packable stopping rifle, ever. I'd go with a 18" barrel, and brake.
Don't know if a 900 grain soft point is enough bullet weight to penetrate for what the gun
is designed to shoot, but, at least when you hit that elephant, or bear, he's going to go down, giving you a couple seconds to aim again.

You REALLY don't need expanding bullets with a LFN in .577".

56hawk
January 27, 2012, 11:52 AM
Where are you getting ammunition?

I'm going to load my own. Should get the cost down to about $2.50 a round. Factory ammo is $13.75 a round. Even counting brass and dies, it will only take about 60 rounds to break even.

By the way, the 600 Overkill shoots a .620" bullet not a .577". It's based on the .585 Nyati case blown out with a belt added.

ab_bentley
April 3, 2012, 11:43 PM
Any word on the further progress? Adam

Old Dog Man
April 4, 2012, 12:26 AM
Hope you have better luck than one of my customers, he was using a 500NE shooting hogs in E. Tx. practicing for a buffalo hunt in Africa and blew both his carodid aretery's out and had a stroke. Did'nt make his Africa hunt and never will. Al

56hawk
April 4, 2012, 11:26 AM
Any word on the further progress? Adam

Waiting on McMillan to get the stock built. Should be soon. :D

SimplyChad
April 4, 2012, 01:40 PM
Awesome your gonna get hurt tho

Geno
April 4, 2012, 07:03 PM
56hawk:

I had a Taekwondo student like you...liked to get beat-on. :scrutiny:

Regarding the barrel, definitely the 20".

Geno

Cosmoline
April 4, 2012, 07:16 PM
Awesome your gonna get hurt tho

This. Seriously, please reassure us that you're going to make your CZ heavy enough to compensate. At least weigh it down with lead to start with, please. Start with a 20 pound weighted rifle on your tests. Then gradually reduce the stock weight. You cold fire a full bore .600 OK out of a light and handy CZ 550 and you could actually get hurt.

chute2thrill
April 4, 2012, 11:31 PM
From the videos of the guy shooting the 8 1/2 lb rifle I'm pretty sure you'll be alright. Lets cool it with the "you're gonna hurt yourself." talk. Honestly it doesnt look like it kicks that bad at all. Proper stance and form when shooting the big boys goes a long way.

tundraotto
April 4, 2012, 11:47 PM
awesome! make sure we can see the video. in HD.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
April 5, 2012, 07:47 AM
Man, I admire what you want to do, but you're going to get hurt. And I can not idly sit by and not at least try to help you see the inherent dangers. Like a few others stated, you will be faced with the very high probability of detached retinas, and if you go blind, you can not safely shoot. You are also looking at a rapid acceleration of the human body, which of you get jostled enough, could give you brain damage. A corotid artery could go. Broken bones...

If you like recoil, stick with your .460. Let that one thump you to your pleasure. There's no point to beat yourself to a pulp over some hard-hitting amusements. I'd hate for you to have to retire from firearms early because of the .600 Overkill endeavor.

Centurion75
April 5, 2012, 06:14 PM
Stop being such a wuss. Ditch the mcmillan stock and get a choate top folder for it.

Prosser
April 6, 2012, 02:26 AM
Muzzle brakes are the key.

Prosser
April 6, 2012, 02:31 AM
500 N.E. is a pussycat, and works for big pussycats, provided the stock is 12 pounds.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/H%20H%20375%20buffalo/Sean500NitroExpressinrecoil.jpg
Double rifles are good

coloradokevin
May 24, 2012, 05:16 AM
Okay, not to drag this off on a slight thread-jack, but can anyone actually provide me with a few documented instances where a retina was detached from shooting a large hard-hitting rifle? I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but I've heard about this for years, and have yet to see a person exhibit such an injury. I've shot a few safari rifles and a number of .50 BMG's, and I've never felt like I was going to give myself any kind of injury that was more significant than a bruise. Perhaps these injuries actually happen, but I sometimes wonder how much of this is just gun shop paranoia!

I mean, this guy has an 8.5lb .600 Overkill, and it didn't kill him:

http://youtu.be/wGfu3Rge8Xo


Granted, I think anyone with preexisting medical conditions could have problems with any high-impact activity. Similarly, I know that retinas can detach for a number of reasons related to trauma, and will sometimes do so spontaneously. But, I don't know that I'm inclined to believe that injury is imminent if someone shoots one of these guns, or that retina detachment and broken shoulders occur regularly from such activities.

Cosmoline
May 24, 2012, 01:53 PM
can anyone actually provide me with a few documented instances where a retina was detached from shooting a large hard-hitting rifle?

I know a few shooters locally who've got them now, after years of sustained abuse. It's not like you'll go "ow my retina!" The damage is insidious and it may not manifest for awhile. Just like hearing loss, it's something the shooting community didn't used to take seriously. But life spans were shorter then, and the rifles tended to be more sanely constructed. The big boomers were also *heavy*. Plus most folks simply couldn't afford to mess around with anything like this. Or to spend enough on ammo to create the problem in the first place. But times are changing.

http://frankwjames.blogspot.com/2010/02/dealing-with-recoil-and-retinas.html

With something like a .600 Overkill out of a standard weight rifle, you're dealing with free recoil greater than even the most potent 8 bores and 4 bores of old. Furthermore, the nitro recoil is not the rolling boom of many drams of holy black. It's sharp and nasty. Quite apart from retina problems and the off-chance of a burst vessel, you're courting shoulder injury. Ask an orthopod! The shoulder is a very complex joint with many ligaments that are prone to injury when shoved the wrong way. The tears don't always show themselves right away, and are often very difficult to treat.

That doesn't mean nobody should use a .600 Overkill, but rather that the weight of the weapon should be calculated to keep the recoil at least sane.

451 Detonics
May 24, 2012, 02:03 PM
Building this gun strictly to get the maximum amount of recoil.

If this is truly the goal why not build it up on a single shot? Be lighter and transfer more felt recoil to the shooter.

coloradokevin
May 24, 2012, 02:46 PM
I know a few shooters locally who've got them now, after years of sustained abuse. It's not like you'll go "ow my retina!" The damage is insidious and it may not manifest for awhile. Just like hearing loss, it's something the shooting community didn't used to take seriously. But life spans were shorter then, and the rifles tended to be more sanely constructed. The big boomers were also *heavy*. Plus most folks simply couldn't afford to mess around with anything like this. Or to spend enough on ammo to create the problem in the first place. But times are changing.

http://frankwjames.blogspot.com/2010...d-retinas.html

With something like a .600 Overkill out of a standard weight rifle, you're dealing with free recoil greater than even the most potent 8 bores and 4 bores of old. Furthermore, the nitro recoil is not the rolling boom of many drams of holy black. It's sharp and nasty. Quite apart from retina problems and the off-chance of a burst vessel, you're courting shoulder injury. Ask an orthopod! The shoulder is a very complex joint with many ligaments that are prone to injury when shoved the wrong way. The tears don't always show themselves right away, and are often very difficult to treat.

That doesn't mean nobody should use a .600 Overkill, but rather that the weight of the weapon should be calculated to keep the recoil at least sane.

Thanks for the article, it was an interesting read!

I've always wondered a bit about this subject, because I've heard about it for years. I've personally shot some safari rifles, and the .50 BMG rifles, and I've had people warn me of retina detachment with either. But, the size and power of rifles today are getting a bit more insane. A .375 H&H or .458 Win Mag isn't easy on the body, but I imagine they seem like a child's toy when compared to a .600 Overkill or a .577 T-rex. Similarly, the .50 BMG is an absolute beast, but the rifle it is fired from is also a HEAVY recoil absorbing brute.

I've never had the chance to shoot a .600 OK... I'd kind of like to try it, honestly. But, my personal goal certainly wouldn't be to have it built into the lightest weight hardest-hitting rifle imaginable.

headoftheholler
May 24, 2012, 07:37 PM
A fool and his money (or in this case retina's) are soon parted.

Swing
May 24, 2012, 07:48 PM
Looks like a real kick the pants .... er, shoulder.

mshootnit
May 24, 2012, 07:58 PM
I love it... somebody going to push the limits just to see how much he can take!!:D
It would be something to learn how to handle a rifle which when handed to your brother in law for example knocks him on his arse. That being said I think the 20" will actually give a little more recoil than the others. Right at the end of the impulse.

Prosser
May 24, 2012, 09:07 PM
I will say it again:
The muzzle brakes on these things work incredibly well, due to the huge amount of gas they can redirect to compensate for recoil.

DO NOT shoot without brake.

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