another C&R question


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HD_Ride
July 29, 2011, 02:19 PM
Iím looking for some direction and just want to make sure this is for me. Recently Iíve acquired a taste for the older firearms after buying two Mosin Nagant rifles. I have modern firearms but I really like my Mosins. I guess the appeal is the history, construction and they are just plain fun to shoot. I never heard of a C&R license until I seen C&R posted in the Moslin ads and now here of course (after looking). I think I understand the concept of the C&R and that it would be good for me because Iím a likely candidate to buy other vintage firearms going forward. Looking back one of the Mosin transfer fees alone would have paid for the C&RÖ

I have a few very basic questions for those who have a C&R license. I guess the first question is just fill out the C&R app, add payment, Certification of Compliance and mail a copy to the local PD Chief Law Enforcement Officer. It looks pretty straight forward.. Can I assume including a short note with my app to the local PD with my contact info might be a good idea? Do the local PD ever arbitrarily torpedo these apps? The reason I ask is because Iím in NJ and as most of you know NJ has some azz-backward gun laws. I have NJ a Firearm ID card (AKA long gun purchase card) that Iíve had since the late 70's, that will be the qualifying permit number Iíve entered on my C&R app.

On a side note is it impossible for NJ residents (unless politically connected) to acquire carry permits. I have Non-Resident carry permits for four other states. I mention this to demonstrate that Iíve had several background checks done, a background is of no concern to me. In fact I'd gladly pay for another to obtain a NJ carry permit. I find it pretty amazing that other states trust us but our home state of NJ doesnít. So NJ or local approval would be one concern for the C&R application.

Assuming the locals don't have a problem with the C&R and Iím approved I would then send the seller a copy of my C&R and just track you purchases, correct? Do I have to notify the ATF on a regular basis or does the ATF hound you for status updates, or is keeping the log sufficient? I assume the logging of your purchases is vital and a good register is key. Basically I was want the C&R is for inbound only, Iím not looking to sell or trade. Any constructive tips or feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

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Nico Testosteros
July 29, 2011, 02:29 PM
The copy of the application to the local head of law enforcement is merely to notify them. They have no direct input on the license. There is a template for a cover letter on cruffler.com you can use when you send your app copy to your local PD. Lots of other good info about C$R (typo intentional) there.

stonecutter2
July 29, 2011, 02:54 PM
Assuming the locals don't have a problem with the C&R and I’m approved I would then send the seller a copy of my C&R and just track you purchases, correct? Do I have to notify the ATF on a regular basis or does the ATF hound you for status updates, or is keeping the log sufficient? I assume the logging of your purchases is vital and a good register is key. Basically I was want the C&R is for inbound only, I’m not looking to sell or trade. Any constructive tips or feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Assuming you get your C&R (which you probably will, from the sounds of it):

You send the seller your C&R and sometimes they also request other ID (I live in Illinois so we have to provide our FOID as well).

Once the firearm arrives, you enter it in your bound book. I believe the law might be within 24 hours? You must keep an accurate and up-to-date bound book while a C&R holder. Brownell's sells Firearms Record Books for like $3 (i got one and it's nice for $3), or you can use a 3 ring binder with pages printed from the internet if you like - the bound book has a side for acquisition (buying/trading/borrowing), then the opposite page for disposition (selling/trading/lending) the firearms.

EDIT: Here's a link to the records book at Brownell's:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1694/Product/FIREARMS_RECORD_BOOKS

You just need to keep your log book accurately, and if the ATF wants to audit you, they will contact you. I believe you can choose to have the audit at a nearby ATF office, not necessarily at your home. I've had my C&R for almost a year and haven't had any contact from the ATF, but then again, I've hardly acquired anything (though who knows what triggers audits).

Whether you just buy or also sell/trade is inconsequential to the ATF so long as it's accurately recorded in your bound book, and you are not using your C&R as a primary source of income, or as a business.

For example: You order a Mosin Nagant 91/30 and it shows up, but it's not as nice as you wanted, or it's another Tula and you wanted an Izhevsk. Your friend is there when you open the box, notes your disappoint, and says he'll pay you double for the 91/30 because he doesn't have one. He has a C&R. So, you make the deal, note the acquisition and disposition of the 91/30 in your bound book. Your friend goes home and notes his new acquisition of the 91/30 in his bound book. All is well.

There is no stipulation in the C&R rules of how long one must own or possess the firearms, and no stipulation of how much you can sell them for, but you cannot use your C&R as a means of business for dealing in firearms, or primary source of income.

Also: Do not forget to make copies of your C&R, keep the original (Don't sign it! I keep mine in my bound book) and then mail out the copies to various online gun stores - Brownells, midwayusa, cdnn, etc and you'll get dealer pricing on things you order. The fee pays for itself in no time, that way!

Twmaster
July 30, 2011, 04:21 AM
Getting my C&R was a snap. Fill out the forms, mail them to the ATF and your CLEO.

I got mine in 24 days from mailbox to mailbox.

You can sell any gun you buy to anybody providing you follow local/federal law. (no felons, buyer in same state for pistols, same or bordering states for long guns, etc) you can also sell to any FFL. You'll have to record the name/FFL # for other FFLs. You'll need to record the name, address, DOB and driver's lic. number for private parties.

So long as you are not operating as a business and follow the simple rules you'll be ok.

Of course being in the PRNJ you may have other laws to follow.

Also, here is a terrific FAQ for getting a C&R:

http://surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/howtogetyourcurionrelicffl03/index.asp

There is also a link to a PDF of pages for a 'bound book'. Just print them off on copy paper and put in a binder. Instant cheap bound book.

One word of warning. A C&R will drain your wallet. Do not be surprised if it tries to crawl under the sofa when you are online....

:D

Twmaster
July 30, 2011, 04:23 AM
Stupid forum software.. posted a duplicate...

Grrrr...

Twmaster
July 30, 2011, 04:23 AM
Stupid forum software.. posted a duplicate...

Grrrr...

GWARGHOUL
July 30, 2011, 12:00 PM
so, was getting your C&R a snap. Twtmaster?

:P

I'm also curious about it.

SaxonPig
July 30, 2011, 01:32 PM
State and local laws do affect C&R.

Double check state law if in NJ. I recall that NJ doesn't recognize the C&R and all sales must go through a 001 FFL dealer.

CA doesn't allow handguns to be sent to C&R holders. They must be shipped to 001 FFLs.

HD_Ride
July 31, 2011, 08:12 AM
@ SaxonPig - Thanks for the heads up. I had it all typed out in envelopes ready to take to PO on Monday for tracking numbers but I guess that wonít be necessary since it is now in the shredder. Yes Iím disappointed but not surprised because NJ legislators (past and present) and our Golden Boy Governor are anti-gun.
I did a search and the three forums below pretty much sum it up:
http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10589-nj-cr/
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=14&t=299465
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14044
The way I understand it is you could still obtain the license but at the end of the day NJ state law takes precedence rendering the C&R to nothing more than a useless piece of paper. The bottom line is NJ is a Nanny state and if I want the C&R it will have to wait until we relocate.
@ Nico Testosteros & stonecutter2 thanks for the info, as you could see from SaxonPigís reply NJ is in a class of its own but I appreciate the replies just the same.

SaxonPig
July 31, 2011, 11:05 AM
I feel your pain. I fled CA in 1992 in reaction to the downward spiral for gun owners in that state. I passed through Ohio (1992-96) where I was surprised to find the gun laws were terrible then on to Utah (1996-2000) which was Utopia for gun owners and since 2001 I have lived in AR. Not as good as UT but still pretty good for someone like me.

stonecutter2
August 1, 2011, 09:06 AM
Ugh, sorry to hear that.

Somehow Illinois allows C&R to function as it's supposed to, but denies it's citizens the right to carry in any way.

If possible, I'd like to move out, but as it stands I've got a good job, so IL it is.

RandyP
August 1, 2011, 03:00 PM
Just used my C&R this past weekend at a gun show in Indiana. Walked in, saw the Mosin Nagant rifle I wanted, gave the seller a copy of my C&R which I signed in his presence, he checked my IDs and I left with it slung over my shoulder for a reasonable $85.

Got it home to Chicago, and will log it into my binder and then fill out and send in the required $15 firearm registration form per Chicago ordinance.

Without the C&R I would not have been able to buy at an Indiana show without involving a local to me FFL to accept shipment and do the transfer.

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