Kel-tec PF9, biggest POS EVER


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Horvath819
July 29, 2011, 07:49 PM
I've owned 6 different handguns from various manufacturers and the Kel-tec PF9 is BY FAR the WORST one of them all. I can't get the damn thing to stop jamming. It jams at least one round of every other magazine I fire through it. At first I thought it just needed to be broken in but I've put hundreds of rounds through it and it still does it. It is the same malfunction every time, failure to eject the spent shell and gets so jammed up I have to force the magazine out. Another complaint is it seems very cheaply made with horrible fit and finish. I could never trust my life with this gun and it was one of the worst purchases I've ever made. Now I don't know what to do with the damn thing, maybe sell it to a duck.

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MachIVshooter
July 29, 2011, 07:53 PM
Instead of coming on here and flaming a gun that is well liked by the extreme majority of owners (myself included), why don't you take advantage of the best warranty and customer service in the industry and have it fixed.

Kel Tec ALWAYS makes things right.

And I promise your post will be almost universally frowned upon. People will just think you're a hot head, a jerk, or both.

Jackal1
July 29, 2011, 07:56 PM
I think your disgust is actually kind of funny.... Maybe I'm weird... I guess I think it's funny because I know Kel-Tec is known for fantastic customer service and will take care of you.

R.W.Dale
July 29, 2011, 08:00 PM
So all you've done to try to fix this broken firearm is to shoot it more? Yeah that makes perfect sense.



I've not had the opportunity to really put mine through it's paces yet so I cannot comment on reliability, but I will say that by all accounts kel-tec will do everything possible to make it right.

I will say however that if you're not running across firearms that are defective or in need of repair periodically YOU'RE NOT BUYING ENOUGH GUNS! I've had to send guns back to manufacturers from just about all major makes and price ranges just in my brief 10 year stint as a gun guy. Everybody and I mean everybody puts out a "made on a Friday afternoon before a 3 day weekend" lemon from time to time.

Now as to how cheaply made and finished these pistols are...Well it's a gun that can be had for under $260 retail. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

khegglie
July 29, 2011, 08:03 PM
No details.... did OP purcfhase new or used ; what ammo used; ect. If the finish is so poor; why buy it? ADD: I like my PF-9;)

Horvath819
July 29, 2011, 08:12 PM
Bought it brand new from Budsgunshop.com so I really didn't get a good idea of how the finish actually looked. I don't care all that much about the finish as long as the gun works properly. When I first got the PF9 I loved how small it was and how accurate it was for its size. But now since it fails me so much I don't really want it anymore. I've tried 2 or 3 different brands of ammo in it and it doesn't seem to matter. Maybe I will give it a second chance and call up Kel-tec and see what they can do.

Yarddog
July 29, 2011, 08:24 PM
"[Kel-Tec is known for fantastic customer service and will take care of you.]"

^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Y/D

Mike1234567
July 29, 2011, 08:27 PM
This could be simply limp wristing. These itty bitty 9mm need a firm grip.

It could also be the ammo. What are you shooting?

CTGunner
July 29, 2011, 08:32 PM
I purchased my PF9 in large part due to the overwhelmingly positive nature of reviews and forum posts on Kel-Tec and the PF9 specifically. They are also known for very very good customer service.

trekgod3
July 29, 2011, 08:41 PM
Ask the good folks over at KTOG. They'll help you out. Give the specifics of the malfunction and see what the experts say.

http://www.thektog.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95

MICHAEL T
July 29, 2011, 09:16 PM
my PF-9 works great Not I tried that steel case junk wal mart has and jammed 2 times first mag. Went back to good ammo and it went back to running like a clock .American gun ,American Ammo . I carry and trust my PF-9 Might be ammo or need warranty work. They are a nice carry gun. So stop the crying and get it fixed

chhodge69
July 29, 2011, 09:42 PM
Sucks that you're having problems - I know that frustration well.

My PF-9 just doesn't like winchester WB ammo and behaves like yours when force-fed the stuff. Anything else I've tried, including various hand loads from plinkers to +p feeds perfectly.

FWIW I've had similar experiences with both Ruger and Glock where a specific gun/ammo mismatch just will not cycle reliably. Doesn't make them junk.

Hanzo581
July 29, 2011, 10:08 PM
I can understand the frustration of a pistol not working right out of the box but seriously, ANY manufacturer can produce a lemon. Call up kel-tec and they will fix your problem.

Mike1234567
July 29, 2011, 10:15 PM
RE: "Kel-tec PF9, biggest POS EVER"

Wh-a-a-a-t?? The itty bitty PF9 ain't BIG at all.:evil:

And, as others pointed out, K-T has a great customer service department.

David E
July 29, 2011, 10:22 PM
The first step is to get a known good shooter to try it.

If problem persists, try different ammo.

If problem persists, try different magazine.

Problem persists, return for warranty.

MCgunner
July 29, 2011, 10:36 PM
Six guns, uh? Dang, an expert.

WinThePennant
July 29, 2011, 10:43 PM
I hate to say it, but I've heard of a lot of people getting guns that don't work well from Bud's and Gander Mountain. Probably nothing to it, but I find it interesting none the less...

351 WINCHESTER
July 29, 2011, 10:46 PM
K/T will fix it, but wouldn't it be nice to get a run out of the box that works? If they just test fired them it would identify most of their problems and save them money and a bad rap.

MCgunner
July 29, 2011, 10:47 PM
Gander is a retailer. Why would they sell messed up guns? I've bought two off 'em that I really like, a surplus Radom P64 and a new CVA Wolf. They were running specials on both. They're normally kinda high, but the specials made them a decent deal.

hAkron
July 29, 2011, 10:48 PM
Why can't the guy vent? It's awful when you get a problematic gun. It's not like anything else you buy that's defective where you can just take/send it back and be given a replacement or a refund. When you buy a gun you are stuck dealing with getting it fixed which can take months, or selling it at a huge loss. I've had a similar experience with a totally different type of gun and it's a very frustrating and helpless feeling. Sure Keltec will make it right, but in the meantime this guy is without this gun and without his money.

GlockFan
July 29, 2011, 10:50 PM
You're right...you shouldn't keep. I'll take it off your hands and even pay the shipping...unless you really can't wait to get rid of it and you want to pay the shipping! :rolleyes:

natgas
July 29, 2011, 11:24 PM
Sorry to hear you're having issues; I've got about 800 rounds through mine and it is flawless, both with factory and reloads; my daily carry and I like it a lot

isc
July 29, 2011, 11:51 PM
Six guns, uh? Dang, an expert.
My thoughts exactly.

Keltec makes good guns and they fix the occasional stinker no questions asked.

shiftyer1
July 30, 2011, 12:00 AM
I could be wrong but I also wonder if you grip may have something to do with it. I have had good luck with my p-11 and have a couple friends with the same experiences. Is the fit and finish great? Not by any means, if it was the price would be twice what it is now.

If paying more attention to how you grip the gun doesn't help....by all means send it to kel tec for repair. They may even GIVE you a mag or 2 for your trouble.

MachIVshooter
July 30, 2011, 12:01 AM
Why can't the guy vent? ,

He's not venting. The title proclaims "Kel-tec PF9, biggest POS EVER". That's flaming, not venting. He hasn't even given them a chance to make it right yet.

You may not understand this, a lot of people who aren't business owners don't, but when you have a problem with a product or service, or a combination thereof, you give the company who provided it a chance to make it right first. If they shine you on, then flame away. I own an auto repair shop; Do you think it would be fair for one of my customers to carry on like this fellow did if there was a problem with a part they bought and they never even gave me a chance to provide warranty service?

About the only professionals who absolutely must get it right the first time are doctors and lawyers, because the results are irreversible most of the time. And they still screw up. A lot. For the prices they charge, they shouldn't make mistakes. But they do, every single day.


It's awful when you get a problematic gun. It's not like anything else you buy that's defective where you can just take/send it back and be given a replacement or a refund. When you buy a gun you are stuck dealing with getting it fixed which can take months

Lucky for him, it's a Kel Tec, and they'll fix it or replace it, usually very quickly.

The Lone Haranguer
July 30, 2011, 12:49 AM
I've paid three times as much for bigger POSs, if it is any comfort. :evil: Your stoppages might well be something simple, e.g., an extractor or magazine.

Pizzagunner
July 30, 2011, 01:34 AM
He should sell it to a duck, then the limpwristing would stop.

Maybe George preemptively hated the OP and directed a lemon his way via his magic powers. . . .

atblis
July 30, 2011, 05:48 AM
Another complaint is it seems very cheaply made with horrible fit and finish.

I've paid three times as much for bigger POSs, if it is any comfort. Your stoppages might well be something simple, e.g., an extractor or magazine.

I'll agree that Kel-tecs are designed to be cheaply made. However, they usually have it where it counts, and generally do work. The beauty in this is that they're priced cheaply too. In other words, the economy in manufacture is passed on which is more than I can say for other manufacturers. Kimber and S&W come to mind.

JDGray
July 30, 2011, 07:26 AM
Had a P11 that all of a sudden started jamming, and found the ejector tip broke off. A call to KT, and two replacements were sent to me in a weeks time. No questions asked besides my name and address:cool:

71Commander
July 30, 2011, 07:30 AM
When I read a post about a quality gun jamming with every mag, the very 1st thing I think of is limp wristing by the shooter.

Kahr owners are the worst.

CDW4ME
July 30, 2011, 07:56 AM
I've got about 250 trouble free rounds through my PF9.
Total rounds fired is about 275, but I had two FTF early on with some old style Hydra-Shok.
It feeds & ejects 124 gr. Hydra-Shok, 115 gr. Silvertip, and 115 gr. ball, just fine. Firm grip, locked wrist.

If yours isn't working, send it back to Kel-Tec.

Don't like the blued slide, that's easy to change. Mine had a blued slide when I bought it, but I used Duracoat "Shake N Spray" kit to change it to Combat Gray. I initally bought the Duracoat for another pistol, but decided I might as well put it to good use and did two.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602535

Specs
July 30, 2011, 08:45 AM
I can understand the OP's angst over his KT PF9. I am certain that many of us have had a gun that either did not function to expectation, or just did not please. Once it starts to go negative, best to have it serviced to become reliable and then trade for something more pleasing. My PF9 was flawless, but I just could not "warm up" to it, so I sold it and replaced it with something else. I had a similar experience with a S&W model 41, functioned well, but just not for me.

Mike1234567
July 30, 2011, 11:26 AM
When I read a post about a quality gun jamming with every mag, the very 1st thing I think of is limp wristing by the shooter.

Kahr owners are the worst.

Well... then I guess I won't buy a Kahr. I sure as heck don't wanna' be the worst.:D

possum
July 30, 2011, 11:58 AM
sorry to hear that you are having issues. My PF-9 is good to go with over 800rds, I know that I do not shoot it much compared to my others; it is just a back up gun. however it has bee 100% out of the box.

harmon rabb
July 30, 2011, 01:44 PM
dude, call kel-tec. they'll fix it on their dime. it sucks you bought a bum gun, but their service is widely regarded as being excellent.

bigfatdave
July 30, 2011, 01:44 PM
Horvath819, I'll give you $50 for it, you pay shipping to my FFL of choice.

(and then I send it to KelTec (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=kel+tec+cnc), and they send it to me running well ... if I can't make it run on my own with some basic troubleshooting)

Uniquedot
July 30, 2011, 01:50 PM
He's not venting. The title proclaims "Kel-tec PF9, biggest POS EVER". That's flaming, not venting. He hasn't even given them a chance to make it right yet.

Venting or flaming what difference does it make? he isn't talking about your pistol or any of the other posters guns that he has stamping their feet. He is talking about his POS.

khegglie
July 30, 2011, 02:05 PM
he should sell it to Horvath!

MachIVshooter
July 30, 2011, 02:16 PM
Venting or flaming what difference does it make?

That he hasn't even given them a chance to make it right yet (assuming that it's not him causing the problem by limpwristing, as others have mentioned)

I thought I explained the difference pretty clearly, but evidently, you don't understand.

He'd be within his right if the gun had been back a time or three and still malfunctioning, especially if the company shined him on. If that happens, scream and yell. I understand. In this instance, however, it doesn't even sound as though he's contacted KT yet.

If you don't give the manufacturer or service provider a chance to make things right, you really have no grounds on which to lambaste them. It's just childish.

bigfatdave
July 30, 2011, 02:28 PM
That he hasn't even given them a chance to make it right yet (assuming that it's not him causing the problem by limpwristing, as others have mentioned)I wonder what he is feeding it?
The cheapest ammo found at a gunshow? (ronnie reloader strikes again!)
Aluminum or Steel-case? (not good for break-in, might be good in a worn-in gun)

I'm dropping my offer to $40, for all I know he has been feeding it steel 9x18 mak ammo.

MCgunner
July 30, 2011, 02:40 PM
I'm dropping my offer to $40, for all I know he has been feeding it steel 9x18 mak ammo.


Hey, that stuff works in my cheap 9x18 mak. If it don't work in the Kel Tec, it's a POS.....

Or so some logic would have it. :D

hubcap00
July 30, 2011, 02:44 PM
I've had a couple Kel-Tecs and have had zero problems with either. Have a p-11 now with several hundred rounds through it and not one issue. Kel-Tec will take care of you.

Horvath819
July 30, 2011, 04:02 PM
I am sorry for saying the PF9 is a pos, but I was talking about my PF9. I have ran WWB, Remington, and Federal ammo through it and it had problems feeding all three. I am going to contact Kel-tec next week and see what they will do. I don't really hate the PF9, it just sucks when you buy a brand new gun and it doesn't work. My plan was to make it my carry gun but I can't get the thing to fire 10 consecutive rounds without jamming. And I don't think I'm limp wristing the gun because the same thing happens when I let other people shoot it.

dgray64
July 30, 2011, 04:10 PM
My PF-9 (also purchased from Buds) is great. I have found that it doesn't like Winchester White Box ammo, but that's fine, my other 9s love to shoot it up. Call Kel-Tec.

Dave :neener:

MachIVshooter
July 30, 2011, 05:18 PM
I am going to contact Kel-tec next week and see what they will do.

They will repair or replace the gun as necessary.

evan price
July 30, 2011, 05:35 PM
Mine had about every problem you could name when I bought it. Hated that gun. Finally sent it back to KelTec when a major part broke. They sent me a totally rebuilt gun 6 weeks later, only used the bare slide and barrel. Everything else new. Now it is a 100% reliable gun that I carry quite often. KelTec stands behind every gun they make. If you have trouble, let someone else shoot it and see if the problems continue. If they do, send it to the maker for repair.

Russ Jackson
July 30, 2011, 05:37 PM
Have you stripped it down and cleaned it? Did you clean it prior to shooting it? What do the shells look like? Is the magazine fitting correctly and does it appear to be undamaged. How many rounds went throught it prior to the jamming problem? You implied that it shot good in the begining but I might be wrong...Russ

Horvath819
July 30, 2011, 06:01 PM
I have about 300 or more rounds through it now and it's had the same problem since I took it out of the box brand new. I did clean and lube it before I shot it also.

Mike1234567
July 30, 2011, 06:04 PM
If you send the slide to K-T they'll probably do a "fluff-'n-buff" during the repair so it'll probably come back better than new.

Zerodefect
July 30, 2011, 06:21 PM
What ammo?
With both mags?
Firm grip?

Get a RA number and send it in. But try a different mag and better ammo first.

Horvath819
July 30, 2011, 06:57 PM
Tried 3 different kinds of ammo, always use a firm grip, and have tried two different magazines. I think it has something to do with the extractor because it fails to eject the spent shell and gets all jammed up.

MCgunner
July 30, 2011, 08:36 PM
extractor or ejector probably. Kel Tec will fix it. Call customer service.

TxBobS
July 30, 2011, 11:36 PM
Mine has flawlessly eaten everything I have fed it. Just call them.

skoro
July 31, 2011, 09:09 AM
Mine isn't. I've been carrying it for 2-1/2 years. :)

Walt Sherrill
July 31, 2011, 09:28 AM
I've said it before -- maybe in this message chain -- some folks just can't shoot Kel-Tecs. That's not a criticism of them, nor of their technique.

One of my shooting acquaintances is a great shot with his guns, which include a number of SIGs and 1911), but just can't shoot Kel-Tecs.
He bought a P3AT and later sold it, raising hell about it. He said it was a POS, too. I let him try mine, and he could barely hit the target at 25'. I took the same gun and shot a relatively small group (4") shooting very rapidly.

It wasn't the gun, and I know he's a good shooter with other guns.

It may simply be that the gun/shooter interface with some Kel-Tec models is just wrong for some folks.

CZ223
July 31, 2011, 09:34 AM
is a disappointment, but it happens. Send it back to KT and reevaluate it. If you still don't like it or feel you can't trust it, sell it. I just made the choise to buy the LC9 over the PF9 and, at this moment, feel that it was the right decision. I hope I feel this way after 200 rounds. I should have it in aweek or two.:evil:

Geezer Glide
July 31, 2011, 09:42 AM
Just don't polish it and list it on GB.

Sounds like limp wristing could be the problem. Have you let other people shoot it?

Mike1234567
July 31, 2011, 10:36 AM
I have somewhat of a problem controlling recoil on tiny 9mm guns. I'm sure it's the ultra-short grip on which I can barely get three fingers. I'm pretty sure a longer grip would help but that partially defeats the purpose of a tiny gun. OR... maybe it's just psychological.:) AT any rate, that's why I have a P11 with extended grip.

bigfatdave
July 31, 2011, 02:25 PM
I have somewhat of a problem controlling recoil on tiny 9mm guns. I'm sure it's the ultra-short grip on which I can barely get three fingers. I'm pretty sure a longer grip would help but that partially defeats the purpose of a tiny gun. I learned to shoot without a place for my last finger on the grip ... and now shoot all guns that way regardless of grip size.

You can get used to it, and in the end you'll realize that that little finger was mostly providing a placebo effect. Amusingly, if I try to grip with all fingers on a gun with sufficient grip, now my shots get pulled low ... but they're dead-on otherwise.


===


Horvath819, perhaps pictures of your extractor would help? Pop off the slide and take a few shots of the extractor claw and the ejector in the frame while you're at it. For that matter, put a round on the bolt-face by hand and see if the extractor holds it.


http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/big/pf9firingmotion.gif

Your extractor won't function right if the frankenbolt behind it on the frame isn't tight, you could probably find more detailed info and torque specs on KTOG, but if the extractor is un-tensioned it won't hold the empties in the right place on the way back.

Horvath819
July 31, 2011, 06:31 PM
Everyone I've let shoot it has had it jam on them too. Even if I hold the gun as hard as I can when I shoot it the problem still persists.

Walt Sherrill
July 31, 2011, 08:00 PM
Sounds like a call to Kel-Tec's customer service department is in order. Explain what you've done, that you've had others shoot it, that you've asked here and elsewhere for advice, and nothing has helped.

See if they'll pay the shipping. I think they probably should.

RX-178
July 31, 2011, 08:54 PM
I had a PF-9 that eventually started FTEing, usually on the last round of a magazine.

I just tightened the screw on the extractor... I don't remember how much even. No precise measurements, I just gave it a little tweak.

That fixred the problem for me.

orionengnr
July 31, 2011, 09:23 PM
So, the K-T faithful have had their say.

I've had well over 50 handguns in the last near-30 years. Four Kel-Tecs--a P32, two P3ATs and a P11. Each was a BIG POS.

I spent a lot of time on KTRange, got a bunch of practice at F&B'ing (with little/no improvement), spent more money on new mags and various types of ammo. And spent more time on the phone with Bill, who sent me springs and other parts at no charge (also with no change).

K-T tried, but never made anything right with me. So I sold each with full disclosure at a big loss and moved on.

I have an LCP that has worked fine from round #1 regardless of ammo and a Kahr PM9 that I shot weekly and carried daily for 3 1/2 years. It's not impossible to build a small gun that works...but IME, K-T still hasn't figured it out.

I will never spend another dime on a K-T, and if you gave me one I'd tie it to a brick and throw it in a lake. Might spend two minutes on it with my 6-pound sledge first...

Mike1234567
July 31, 2011, 09:28 PM
^^^ I have two P11's that function flawlessly. One with 2000+ rounds with no issues ever except the last round lock broke once... free replacement part received in three work days. The other is newer with 300 rounds and no issues.

Horvath819
July 31, 2011, 10:06 PM
^^That's how I'm starting to feel about my PF9. I wish now I would have gotten a Ruger or Kahr instead. I'm going to give Kel-tec the chance to fix it, but if they send it back to me and it still jams I actually might throw it in a lake.

Mike1234567
July 31, 2011, 10:13 PM
^^^ Tell ya' what. Ship it to me and I'll throw it in a puddle in my yard. Then I'll clean it. Then I'll tweak it into submission and punish it thoroughly at the range.:)

goon
July 31, 2011, 10:14 PM
I sympathize with the OP. He shouldn't have to send it back to be repaired because it should have worked right in the first place.
Having said that, venting online has therapeutic value, but it won't get the gun fixed. I'd give Kel-Tec a chance to make it right. If it comes back and still malfunctions, continue bothering them. Make them pay for their mistake until they correct it.

isc
July 31, 2011, 10:25 PM
I've had 3 P11s. One was stolen, one I sold to my best friend, and one I still have. My sister had one that she used to shoot a car jacker in New Orleans that NOPD stole from her.

All were 100% reliable and trustworthy.

MedWheeler
July 31, 2011, 10:49 PM
I like mine, and it is my EDC. I'm glad you've cooled your heels some by now and are sharing details. I don't have any suggestions that have not already been made. Just be clear and diplomatic when communicating with the maker. I'm with the majority here in believing they'll make it right, and on their dime (assuming you're the first owner; I'm not sure how the warranty applies beyond that.)

bigfatdave
July 31, 2011, 10:56 PM
I'm going to give Kel-tec the chance to fix it, so what did you find out when you checked the tightness of that frankenbolt?
And where are the pictures of the extractor/ejector?
What did you find out when you put a round on the breechface?

Horvath819
July 31, 2011, 11:37 PM
I did check the tightness on the extractor, it seemed good an tight. I can't get any pictures up right now because I let my sister borrow my camera.

JustinJ
August 1, 2011, 10:42 AM
I have a PF9 that initially jammed with all ammo, ecspecially HP, but after a couple of hundred rounds and polishing the feed ramp it started running reliably with certain ammo which to me is unacceptable. If it's chambered for 9 mm a modern gun should shoot ALL factory 9 mm. It does worst with 124 grain FMJ red box winchester. That is why i got a Ruger LC9. Not a jam yet with eight different kinds of 9 mm. There are articles floating around about how to remedy some of the PF9's issues, ecspecially the older variants. The fact that articles exists speaks volumes to me.

hardluk1
August 1, 2011, 12:20 PM
HORVATH819 Write a letter not whinning but telling CS at KT what is going on. Talk to there CS folks about the problem. Be sure to tell them its new and they should send you a shipping label. Are any of your friends long time shooters Are all of you some what new to guns or atleast small lite weight pistols? Lots of shooters avoid 147gr loads in small pistols too.

I owned a pf-9 great pistol ran 600 mixed pratice rounds and 200 carry loads with zero issues before i carry any pistol and had around 1200 shot when I sold it with zero issues. Bought a KT P-!!. It did NOT work right out of the box. I call KT CS They sent a couple idems to replace to try. It did not help and they sent a lable for it. I recieved the pistol back in 8 days with many parts replaced and it ran like my PF-9. perfect.

Give them a chance. Explane you problems in a letter smartly, no bs or atitude. I also own 2 kahrs and they have there own little problems with some pistols and mags and there CS people are not nearly as nice to deal with.

Most of these problems can be mag related and most of those you can fix but once in a while a real problems comes up so just send the pistol back.

What would you have said if the problems were with a 3000 dollar custom!!! hehehe

MachIVshooter
August 2, 2011, 01:03 AM
Make them pay for their mistake until they correct it.

You don't have to make them; They'll do it voluntarily. It's KT, not Taurus.

I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but some things to consider if you get a KT that ain't perfect the first time out:

-They have developed some of the most innovative firearms extant. The PF-9 is still the thinnest and lightest 9mm around, and definitely one of the least expensive. Most of them run flawlessly.

-They are, and have been for some time, operating beyond their capacity to manufacture. They're still in the midst of a major expansion, which will hopefully get their production and QC where they are trying to be.

-They are 100% American made, and the company is extremely pro-2A. That in and of itself deserves giving them a chance.

-Other tiny guns have issues, too. Kahr had teething problems, Ruger has had issues witht he design they stole from KT. Even the $1,000 Rorbaugh is high maintenence and reported to be less than perfect oftentimes.

I've had 6 KT's, still have five (didn't need two PLR-16's and the mortagage needed paid). My P3 was one of the first, only issue it ever had was mag catch very early on. KT handled it in 2 weeks, it's been fine ever since. My P32 has been perfect, as has my PF-9. Both PLR's ran 100% out of the box. My PMR-30 had extraction issues, which I took care of by profiling the extractor and deepening the cut in the barrel a touch, as well as a slightly longer extractor spring. I also detailed that fix and emailed it to KT, who forwarded it to their R&D dept.

Warp
August 2, 2011, 01:27 AM
I have owned 3 KelTecs. I sold every one of them and do not plan to ever buy another. They are cheap and it shows in the performance. I say dump it and don't look back.

MachIVshooter
August 2, 2011, 03:25 AM
They are cheap and it shows in the performance.

Please elaborate. Other than a very vocal few like yourself, most people are overwhelmingly satisfied with the cost/benefit ratio found in KT firearms. I get rid of find that don't perform. Still have all but one of my KT's, and as I said before, it ran fine. Just needed money more than a duplicate firearm.

451 Detonics
August 2, 2011, 06:49 AM
I quit selling Kahr's in my shop because they came back in with problems more than any other gun I sold. I never had to send in a Kel-Tec. Mine has over 2500 rounds of 9mm through it and about 1000 rounds of 22...the gun has never had ant failures except a few that were shooter induced. It gets fed my reloads which use a bullet designed for a revolver, not a semi-auto. It has a big flat point and a gun that feeds it will feed any thing.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/reloading/125grain.jpg

I agree with others...send it in and Kel-Tec will do what ever they can to make it right however if it is shooter induced problems they can't do much about that.

hardluk1
August 2, 2011, 08:23 AM
451 .Glad you like KT products but come on , Don't start a kahr bashing tread here. Both mine run 100% also ,just like my pf-9. To many people are both new to shooting AND new and inexperienced to small light semi-auto pistols . So much today is related to two main problems, mags and shooters. The cw9 kahr I have was a problem gun for the first owner and for me doing nothing other than cleaning, looking for burs that i did not find and lubing . It worked so well I went and bought the cm9. Unlike so many cm & pm9's it works 100% with the 7 and 8 shot mags too. Go figure. The only pistol I have ever owned that I could not fix was a KT p-11. Not a big deal, sent it back to KT and came back a great pistol even with cheap stock sw59 mags. My local gun shop is a major firearms dealer and has had no returns for either brand but has had a few custom shop pistols come back. Maybe more a difference in people and there ability to deal with some issues??

To many people just don't take the time to work with the manufactor of a firearm to get it right when a real problem shows up.

Warp
August 2, 2011, 11:03 AM
Please elaborate. Other than a very vocal few like yourself, most people are overwhelmingly satisfied with the cost/benefit ratio found in KT firearms.

I had a 2nd Gen P3AT. It FTE'd 3 times in not very many rounds, after a brief break-in. Sold it. I'm not playing those games, too many excuses not enough proper function. I am much, much happier with my J-frame S&W.

The Sub2000 apparently doesn't like 147gr ammo. Huh? If it can't be trusted with run of the mill factory ammo for its caliber it can't be trusted.

In fairness I can't really blame the P32. It did work for the few rounds I put through it. I just had a change of heart regarding piddly little mouse guns for defensive use.

Uniquedot
August 2, 2011, 12:42 PM
If you don't give the manufacturer or service provider a chance to make things right, you really have no grounds on which to lambaste them. It's just childish.

Would you jump in on a thread to tell the OP he/she is being childish if the thread read "hi point biggest pos ever"? after all they do have an excellent warranty on those paper weights. I seriously doubt that you would even if you secretly owned one. I doubt that title would upset you. Point is he stated that his K-T was the biggest POS ever. If he has the problems that he say's he does then indeed it's a POS, that does not mean that yours or the next guy's is, but his definitely is. Use the lame limp wrist excuse if you want to, but i think before i assumed the op didn't know how to hold a handgun i would have first paid attention to the fact that he owns and shoots others without problems. It's not childish to call something what it is just to keep from hurting some ones feelings on a public forum. They will make it right for him, but as of now his K-T is the biggest POS ever.

MCgunner
August 2, 2011, 01:18 PM
Yeah, hey, that's an idea! Let's start a "Kahrs suck" thread....:rolleyes: :D

R.W.Dale
August 2, 2011, 01:30 PM
I had a 2nd Gen P3AT. It FTE'd 3 times in not very many rounds, after a brief break-in. Sold it. I'm not playing those games, too many excuses not enough proper function. I am much, much happier with my J-frame S&W.

The Sub2000 apparently doesn't like 147gr ammo. Huh? If it can't be trusted with run of the mill factory ammo for its caliber it can't be trusted.

In fairness I can't really blame the P32. It did work for the few rounds I put through it. I just had a change of heart regarding piddly little mouse guns for defensive use.

It's pure Pollyannaish fantasy to expect an autoloader of any type be it rimfire, rifle or handgun to be 100% ammo insensitive. It just ain't gonna happen.

I can't shoot all 223 ammo in my colt 603 ar15 due to the twist, my glock manual tells me that I should only shoot jacketed 9mm, my old camp 9 couldn't shoot +p and my marlin 60 despises rem golden bullet.

All these firearms are/were in perfect working order. It's up to the shooter to find an ammunition their firearm will function reliably with and why they tell you in training to have at minimum 200rounds of your carry ammo fired without a malfunction before you rely on. They make this recommendation ireguardless of what handgun you show up with.

IMO this thread is like buying new car that the engine has started knocking on and the only corrective action you take is to A/ Drive it more and B/ Gripe about it on the Internet. At no point involving the dealer or making use of the powertrain warranty.


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

Uniquedot
August 2, 2011, 01:47 PM
IMO this thread is like buying new car that the engine has started knocking on and the only corrective action you take is to A/ Drive it more and B/ Gripe about it on the Internet. At no point involving the dealer or making use of the powertrain warranty.


Still wouldn't change the fact that the car YOU purchased was a piece of crap even though your neighbors car of same make and model ran like a champ from day one. Anything i buy should work as advertised from day one, even though there indeed are lemons in every thing made it doesn't change the fact that the lemons are pieces of crap. I would do the same as the OP and gripe about it first and then waste time and money allowing the manufacturer to make it right.

R.W.Dale
August 2, 2011, 02:32 PM
Anything i buy should work as advertised from day one, .


I want to live in this fantasy world you reside in.

If said car gets the engine replaced by a service dpt that bends over backwards for ya and you proceed to put a couple hundred thousand trouble free miles is it still a lemon? No of course not.


Here's a secret! It isn't about the particular bad product (all manufacturers have em) it's all about what they do for you to make it right.



Tapatalk post via IPhone.

JustinJ
August 2, 2011, 03:02 PM
"It's pure Pollyannaish fantasy to expect an autoloader of any type be it rimfire, rifle or handgun to be 100% ammo insensitive. It just ain't gonna happen."

I've yet to find a type of american factory ammo that won't reliably feed my HKP2000 and P2000sk, Glock21 SF, M&P 40, Ruger LC9, Springfield XD or Ruger P89.

"I can't shoot all 223 ammo in my colt 603 ar15 due to the twist, my glock manual tells me that I should only shoot jacketed 9mm, my old camp 9 couldn't shoot +p and my marlin 60 despises rem golden bullet."

Twist rate has nothing to do with reliable feeding. Glock manual says that to err on the side of caution but in reality they will run JHP all day long and +p is not standard ammo and the issue is pressure, not reliable feeding.

"Here's a secret! It isn't about the particular bad product (all manufacturers have em) it's all about what they do for you to make it right."

But manufacturers have them at drastically varying rates. Given the purpose of a sidearm the importance of an extremely low failure rate is paramount compared to other products. I don't know what the rate is for Keltek but it seems way too easy to find accounts of issues for a product that one's life may depend on.

hardluk1
August 2, 2011, 03:15 PM
Thats all good till you turn out to be the owner of a brand new glock seriea 4 or sw custom that does not work out of the box then its poop too!! Just give a company a change to make it right. Also find a shooter with experiance to try it out and look it over.
Of courseif its a Argentinian copy of a colt 1911 it just may be poop.

RyanAnchors
August 2, 2011, 03:40 PM
I like mine! Shoots cheap, crappy, Russian steel case without problems.

Mike1234567
August 2, 2011, 07:06 PM
Gawd... those Ferrari 12 cylinder engines are CRAP!!! Mandatory engine maintenance every 8K miles... darned timing components just won't... stay... put!!! Hell... at least the crappy little Kel-Tecs will run and run and run once the factory makes things right. I guess that makes crappy $250 Kel-Tec guns better than crappy $100,000 Ferrari V12 engines.

bigfatdave
August 2, 2011, 07:09 PM
I had a 2nd Gen P3AT. It FTE'd 3 times in not very many rounds, after a brief break-in. Sold it. I'm not playing those games, yes, you shouldn't have to troubleshoot an ultra-compact, or try different ammo, or anything, it should run itself on any ammo in any condition.

Dude, seriously? You have to test and experiment with ammo in any autoloader, and the designs pushing the limits of the caliber will be even pickier ... that's just part of the territory with oddball and compact weapons.

Sam1911
August 2, 2011, 07:16 PM
Shoot, I thought it actually was going to be the biggest POS EVER. I'm disappointed, and I want my money back.

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