Colt SA Navy, current, not black powder?


PDA






Arp32
August 2, 2011, 10:39 PM
First time posting on here, hopefully in the right forum.

I've always liked the look of the old Colt Navy SA revolvers, as opposed to the Army style which most current revolvers seem to resemble.

Are there any current Navy-style revolvers in production besides the blackpowder models? Something in a modern caliber like .38, .357 or .44? If so, does anyone have any experiences they'd like to share? Thanks for any input.

If you enjoyed reading about "Colt SA Navy, current, not black powder?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
awgrizzly
August 2, 2011, 10:59 PM
I assume by SA Navy in black powder you are referring to the old open top Colt navy percussion revolver. When Colt brought out their SA Army model it had a frame across the top which made it far stronger than the old navy. That was the end of the old open top.

Since then there have been no 'navy' model Colt single actions made that I know of. Back then, when the Colt cartridge revolver was being introduced Colt retro fitted their navy percussion revolvers to fire the cartridges. They were called SA Navy Conversions. Today you can get reproductions of these in various modern calibers. I have one made by Uberti that fires the .38 Special. Other than that the only 'navy' Colt revolvers that I'm aware of are some of the first double action revolvers Colt made around the turn of the century.

Arp32
August 2, 2011, 11:25 PM
Ah, thanks. I should have posted a picture, these are what I had in mind:

http://images3.backpage.com/imager/u/large/29589813/OK_029.jpg

http://www.filofiel.com/tienda/images/ref_1083.gif?osCsid=hsluahtoi

Did you have any issues with the Uberti conversion?

9mmepiphany
August 3, 2011, 12:50 AM
I also really like the look of the old 1851 Navy. But you really give up a lot of strength and frame flex without a top strap.

The only thing I found difficult about the 1851 was the lack of a place for the rear sight...it is very odd to aim with the notch in the hammer

owlhoot
August 3, 2011, 03:24 AM
The revolver you want is the "open top" model 1872 which is a Colt copy manufactured by Uberti. This revolver was designed as a cartridge revolver so is a little more user friendly than the conversions. It is available in .38 special, .44 Russian and .44 Colt. There were plans to also offer it in .45 Colt. I don't know if that ever happened or not, but I don't think it is a very good idea. I've had a pair of these revolvers for over twelve years. I've used them heavily. Love them.

I also have a pair of the Mason Richards Conversions. I love them too. I think you'd be happy with either choice.

Lawdawg45
August 3, 2011, 06:39 AM
"Are there any current Navy-style revolvers in production besides the blackpowder models? "

For an 1851 Navy conversion revolver, look at Taylor's Firearms or perhaps Cimarron Firearms. I wouldn't mind a matched set myself, if it was good enough for Wild Bill!

LD45

StrawHat
August 3, 2011, 06:49 AM
The revolver that won the Armys testing for a cartidge firing revolver was the Colt Open Top chambered in 44 Colt. It was only at the miltiary's insistence that Colts redesigned it to include a top strap and increased the bore to 45 caliber.

Someone with the Colt book may be able to scan that paragraph and post it. I do not have the book.

Also, the flex and such is more of a perceived thing than an actual fact. Personally, I have used both the RIchards conversions and the Model P Colts revolvers and have come to prefer the Open Top style of revolver, when using a single action.

bannockburn
August 3, 2011, 09:25 AM
StrawHat

I found two possible paragraphs that you were referring to in your post, from R.L. Wilson's book, "COLT An American Legend". In the chapter on Colt conversions, Wilson wrote that the barrel, frame, and cylinder of the Model 1872 Open Top .44 were made for metallic cartridges, attesting to their strength and durability, and that the Ordnance Board thought favorably on the possibility of adopting a new model Colt as the next service revolver.

However in the following chapter on the Single Action Army, Wilson wrote that the tests conducted by the U.S. Ordnance on the Model 1872 Open Top .44 had not been all that impressive, and that just a couple of months later, Colt submitted the solid frame Single Action Army for consideration. The solid frame design proved to be much more secure and durable over the older percussion era design of securing the barrel and cylinder by means of a wedge.

madcratebuilder
August 3, 2011, 10:17 AM
The top strap is no stronger than the open tops massive arbor. The arbor is what gives the open tops it's strength. The major improvement between the open top and top strap colts was loosing the the wedge and it's associated problems.

The open tops do not transition to cartridges well. With a cap and ball the recoil impulse is centered around the arbor and absorbed into the recoil shield. With a cartridge conversion the recoil impulse is moved to the top of the recoil shield, behind the case. This adds significant stress to the bottom of the frame and can cause cracks the form around the screw holes.

CraigC
August 3, 2011, 11:01 AM
IMHO, the strength issue, particularly with modern replicas, is greatly exaggerated. For the pressures involved, with modern steels rather than soft iron, the "topless" Colt replicas are entirely suitable to their appropriate uses. They're a lot of fun to shoot and I carry the Open Top .44Colt below to the woods quite often. For me, the 1860 Richards Type I and Type II are the most attractive, as they utilize the percussion barrel. While the Open Top is the most refined of the line and the most usable. Its dedicated cartridge receiver, rather than a conversion, is a little more refined. The sights on all of them are miniscule but serviceable. The 1851 Richards-Mason is one I still need to add to my collection. I think the little 4" model is the coolest thing since sliced bread and the .38Spl cartridge is good for cheap plinking.

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/Open%20Top%2002.JPG

Jim K
August 3, 2011, 07:20 PM
The Colt SAA does in fact use the "navy" grip; the so-called "army" grip was that used on the 1860 Army and is longer than the "navy". Of the guns shown by Arp32, the first is not a Navy, it is an 1849 pocket pistol in .31 caliber; the guns in the second photo are decoractor dummies.

Jim

awgrizzly
August 3, 2011, 09:20 PM
Ah, thanks. I should have posted a picture, these are what I had in mind:

http://images3.backpage.com/imager/u/large/29589813/OK_029.jpg

http://www.filofiel.com/tienda/images/ref_1083.gif?osCsid=hsluahtoi

Did you have any issues with the Uberti conversion?
The only problem I've had with it was damage to the case hardening color by a cleaning solvent. These guns have a fake case hardening painted on the surface of the steel that, unlike real case hardening, are easily damaged. But that's what you get for the price.

I said it was a Uberti, which is true, but it's assembled and sold by Cimarron. The front and rear portions of the frame are held together by a steel wedge that presses into place and is held by a retaining screw. You must remove the wedge to disasemble the gun for thorough cleaning. Here's a pic of it.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/Grizzlyguy/CimarronNavyrt.jpg

Arp32
August 3, 2011, 11:18 PM
Thanks for the input, guys. I appreciate it.

CraigC and awgrizzly, very nice - either of those would fit the bill. I'll admit, my interest is really about the look of the gun. For as few rounds as I'd probably put through it, ease of maintenance and 20,000 round reliability really isn't a major consideration. If that were it, I could have bought a single Glock years ago and saved a lot of money in the meantime.

CraigC
August 4, 2011, 12:32 AM
I said it was a Uberti, which is true, but it's assembled and sold by Cimarron.
Cimarron buys guns from Uberti and they sell them. They have QC personel on site at Uberti. They don't assemble anything.

awgrizzly
August 4, 2011, 07:43 PM
Cimarron buys guns from Uberti and they sell them. They have QC personel on site at Uberti. They don't assemble anything.
I've been misinformed then.

CraigC
August 4, 2011, 11:03 PM
The do their antiquing and engraving but the guns come complete from Uberti.

DPris
August 5, 2011, 03:42 AM
AW,
You were misinformed.
Cimarron does not do custom work or assembly themselves.
Denis

Ro1911
August 6, 2011, 02:57 AM
I bought this one about a month ago its very accurate,and I like it alot better then the SAA.

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/default.htm

mine is a cimarron richards transitional model in 45 colt

146934
here is mine

these are off cimarrons website

146935

146936

146937

Ro1911
August 6, 2011, 03:07 AM
Oh and if your not used to it good luck getting it in to half cock, i took it to a gun show to find a holster and I had to do it so they could check it.

I was lmao

CraigC
August 6, 2011, 01:31 PM
Nice! I've been wanting to either cut mine to 5" or buy one in that length. I saw an original Colt that had been cut, was very worn and had old yellowed ivory grips on it and have been wanting a new gun just like it ever since. May just order one from Cimarron with their original finish and ultra antique TruIvory.

Ro1911
August 7, 2011, 01:24 AM
I went to a LGS and this was the only one they had, I said great its the only one i wanted, I love the 5 1/2 inch barrel.

If you enjoyed reading about "Colt SA Navy, current, not black powder?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!